Emotional abuse - can EXH force access to 14 yo DH?

[InAState22]

15 years of coercive control in marriage with covert narc. Got out with WA support & now divorced.

No formal child contact arrangements. DD (15) spends 3 nights/week with her dad, she is the golden child. DS (14) has, over the last year, had periods of not wanting to see his dad. Since Nov has not wanted contact at all.

EXH cannot accept this. Accuses me of controlling his son & blocking access. Keeps calling DS, including from different numbers.Last straw was when he rang DD on Xmas eve and told her to put DS on the phone. Ended up in a virtual panic attack for DD who cannot displease her dad.

My question is: would a court be likely to order that DS at 14 must have contact with his dad? He is adamant he doesn’t want to due atm to behaviour he has experienced. Last time this happened I arranged a session with a family therapist who gave great advice, but EXH has ignored it all.

Am talking w solicitor Monday but it feels like a long time til then. Any advice much appreciated.

It is very unlikely that a 14 year old who can ask to speak for himself would be forced by a court to have contact.

As for your EXH abuse of your DD. You unfortunately need to put in a rule that your DD will lose her phone if she is being used to force contact with your DS. She is not old enough to be able to prevent her father from using her, but by saying she will be punished gives her a way out. She tells him he needs to contact DS directly and she hands the phone to you or the nearest adult who will say no on her behalf.

I doubt it. Your son is old enough enough to say what he wants.

Your ex is harassing both your son and daughter so be active in pushing back on this. Talk to solicitor but I think a restraining order or the threat of one sounds appropriate.

Obviously ignore the PP who suggests you take your daughters phone away (bonkers) - it’s not her responsibility to deal with your ex’s behaviour. P

With the age your son is the courts take into account the child's want and needs. I doubt they would make him see his father.

If your DS is NT and clear about why he doesn't want to go then no, absolutely not.

Thank you all so much. That is reassuring. I have read awful stories on here about the family courts. And about CAFCASs and social workers, if they got involved,

It’s not until Tuesday that I am seeing sol and it feels like so long away

When you see the solicitor take a written record of times your DS has stated he doesn’t want contact and the reasons why. Also record of times your ex has tried to contact DS, methods he’s used, effect of DD and DS. As much clearly written info as you can, chronologically if possible.
Take screenshots of any adverse texts exH has sent, copies of any emails.

I don't believe so. I was in a similar situation - though just one DS who was 9 when he refused to go visit his dad for similar reasons. We never went to court but but the advice I got from a counsellor at the time was that even at 9, my DS knew his own mind and was free to choose whether he wanted to see his dad or not.

At 14, vanishingly unlikely that the court would get involved at all.

OK thanks, will make record of unwanted contact from DS phone and mine.

So courts is not likely to get involved, how do I resolve it? I guess DS can block number. I’ll have to go the school since he might well turn up there.

I know to call police if he comes here.

God this is such a mess.

Hey, OP. We're going to move this one over to legal for you now.

If ex applies to the court to see his son the court might get involved. However there’s a lot of negotiation to get through before that. Why is your DDs attitude so different to that of your DS? Your ex might wish to know why this is the case.

@TizerorFizz

If ex applies to the court to see his son the court might get involved. However there’s a lot of negotiation to get through before that. Why is your DDs attitude so different to that of your DS? Your ex might wish to know why this is the case.

Sorry to clarify, when I say they won’t get involved - of course they’ll have to deal with any application he makes to the court, but I cannot see any judge seriously considering making an order for a 14yo child. At most, I’d say you’ll get sent away to try child inclusive mediation. Your ex will (or should) be told that it’s not going to be viable to impose a court order on a child of that age.

Very unlikely a court will force a 14 year old. If he applies, the court process will proceed but bear in mind if he applies now, it will take at least 6 months to get to a constructive point in the process, possibly even a year. By which point he will be nearly 15. Orders last till 16, makes no sense to make one for 12 months.. any solicitor will tell your ex that.

Obviously ignore the PP who suggests you take your daughters phone away (bonkers) - it’s not her responsibility to deal with your ex’s behaviour.

It isn’t bonkers if it allows the daughter a get out of jail free card. If the ex calls she just says, no instant confiscation if I put my brother on the line. I’m passing the phone to mum now.

Thankyou all so much. That is hugely helpful.

The reason DD sees EXH is that she is completely enmeshed with him. She is his golden girl. Luckily we have a good relationship and she has just agreed to have therapy, so I am really hoping this will help her form a healthier relationship with her dad, where she can articulate her needs and wishes too.

I am really hoping ExH sees sense - or that his sol tells him to see sense - and this doesn't get anywhere near court.

At 13 and 14 my dc went nc with their df.. Even with a court order in place. Never heard from his solicitor.. Or him either - he knew it was futile arguing about it.

Santa so glad your DCs made their own choice.

Police have just been over and are going to have a word w eXH re harassment of DS ( he won't stop calling). zero chance EXH will see sense, so hoping this will do the trick.

I was told once they get to 11 they have a say in what they want to do.

If your ex made an application to court he could cite parental alienation and unfortunately that seems to be a strategy that courts will listen to.

Generally however once secondary school age then they are deemed able to make their own decision.

Thankyou Firefly.

On that one I am hoping that messages from DS when he was at dad's expressing his anxiety and fear will help.

Actually at age 11 children are not allowed by courts to make their own decisions. The courts listen to them but at 11 the child doesn’t have responsibility for choosing what’s best.

I meant 12 and 14. And tbh the court order was more in dh's favour... I would stop worrying op. Your ds has a good head on his shoulders.

In this case, one child is happy to see dad and stones a lot of time with him. The younger child feels differently. Therefore the court might see that DD is ok with dad and they might think mum is persuading DS to have a different view. The op seems to dislike her DDs relationship with her father. If he’s a reasonable dad, he should try for access. He’s being reasonable with the DD and can prove it.

Setting dd up as the golden child and using her to force contact with her brother is emotional abuse too. Does she see her dad because she's afraid of disappointing or upsetting him in case she gets treated the way he treats her brother? The fact she had a panic attack suggests not all is right with her relationship with her dad.