House in will - issues/second marriage

[needadvice54321]

Hi all

This is an awkward issue that we have and I wondered if anyone knew where DH stands with it. We have no idea, so prepared to be told we're unreasonable.

DH recently sadly lost his Dad. In his will both DH and his brother inherit the house.

DH's mum died 20 years ago. The house is the family home. My father in law married again several years later and he and his wife (my MIL) lived together in the house.

As part of the will, FIL stated he wanted his wife to be allowed to stay living in the house for up to 2 years post his death - absolutely reasonable.

Now here's the awkwardness - obviously now that FIL has passed, the house belongs to DH and his brother. MIL obviously isn't paying any "rent" to live there ( DH wouldn't want to charge her rent) but here's the issue - in the event that there's a problem with the house, who should be sorting it? ie paying? If it's DH and his brother, is it reasonable to request that nothing is done without their agreement?

This week there has been an issue. MIL immediately dealt with it (it could have waited for DH - wasn't urgent), arranged someone to fix it and is now handing the bill to DH and his brother.

DH is unhappy, he feels the arrangement should be that MIL is more than welcome to stay obviously, but she does at her own cost.

FIL left money to her that she has access to now - it was any money in joint accounts. DH and his brother have no access to FIL estate until MIL moves out and they sell up. MIL also has an income and a generous pension, so we don't feel she's being left high and dry.

What do we do? Pay for this? Make an agreement? Or are we obliged to sort this? Do we just suck it up?

Has it occurred to you to effectively buy her out of her right to live there for 2 years? Either buy offering to sell the property to her at a reduced price, or agreeing with her that you put the property on the market and pay her a lump sum to leave on completion? Obviously it'll cost you a bit (I'd think that 125% of 24 months rental value of the house would be a good starting point as a lump sum/reduction) but it would mean that you get your cash out sooner rather than later, and no ongoing maintenance commitment.

Oh and another thing - your DH/BIL will be responsible for insuring the house. It's not DF's wife's house to insure. If it burns down/floods/slides down the garden, it is your asset that is lost, not hers. If the contents are hers, then they would be her responsibility to insure, but the buildings insurance will all be on your DH/BIL.

@namechangemarch21

To be charitable, OP, I know (and was surprised to learn) that my own parents, who I think are quite comfortable, are concerned about what will happen when one of them dies. Its basically losing half your income while maintaining the same running costs, in terms of pensions suddenly stopping.

She is probably thinking, my household income is gone, I'm about to lose all my rental income, I have to adjust and plan and figure out how to live with less money. I imagine from that mindset, the idea of putting any money into a house she saw as a home but now sees as an asset for her stepsons might seem galling. It doesn't mean she's right, but I can see the perspective.

I wouldn't panic: as others have said, assuming the plan is to sell the house and split the proceeds, you should be able to arrange a bridging loan if needed. I think it might be good to have a quick chat that says: we were surprised to get that bill, you know if the taps leak again (or whatever) you can always call us, we thought it might be good to put some ground rules in place. And then you can lay out the fact that you're hoping no major maintenance will be required as you would need to get a loan or mortgage, and your'e hoping you can do all minor issues that crop up yourselves, and if something needs someone external you'd like to take that over. I wonder if there might be tax benefits somehow in you paying those bills directly? Either way, have the conversation but go gently. And focus on necessary maintenance: not bills or council tax, and if anything tricky comes up maybe say you'll speak to solicitor to clarify terms of the will so you don't have to engage with it directly.

She should have called your DH but she probably dealt with it as she always has, its a tricky balance as I'm sure she'll feel she's lost some independence.But I wouldn't panic yet.

Oh I totally see her perspective, I think for us the thing we find hard is that they were both always very open about money - they both obviously expected their wealth to go to their own children, but in each other's will's they made sure the other wasn't going to be left short in the short term - with the intention that whilst they would lose out slightly financially long term, they both had enough individual wealth the live a very comfortable life. Wrongly we felt that FIL intended the money he'd left in the joint accounts would mean MIL would have her stay for up to 2 years and be able to fully support herself - as they always had. We're talking enough for 1.5k a month left to subsidise the income she also gets. We were obviously wrong to think that, DH knew for the past few years that the will stated the 2 year wish, and stupidly I think we'd brushed to one side that that would mean the house would become DH and his brothers issue. We'd kind of just thought they would inherit 2 years down the line 🙈, not really thinking what the implications of this would mean and having to have awkward conversations. Life would just continue as it was, until MIL moved out. Very naive and stupid I know!

I think this poor woman has had a raw deal over this. FFS this is her home. Her DH should have made better provision for her. What's she going to do in two years?

@Druidlookingidiot

I think this poor woman has had a raw deal over this. FFS this is her home. Her DH should have made better provision for her. What's she going to do in two years?

She's got her own property @Druidlookingidiot

@Druidlookingidiot , what sort of provision should FIL done for her?

Sorry, I missed the bit where you said she owns her own property. That sheds a completely different light on things.

In this case, I would encourage her to move back to her own place. That would be the best solution.

Just talk to her
If she’s so independent maybe it didn’t occur to her to come to you to get it fixed, would she have done that before fil died? Or would they have hired someone to fix it?
Maybe she thought she was doing the right thing, not bothering you and getting it sorted.
Just ask her to discuss anything that needs fixing with you, explain that you don’t have unlimited funds and this is an unexpected expense.
And deal with issues as they arise, it might need a new boiler, it might not, if it does, that might be the push she needs to move back to her own place.
Just communicate and stop worrying

In this case, I would encourage her to move back to her own place. That would be the best solution

Gosh that’s mercenary, she’s not lived there for decades and it’s rented out, she’s just lost her husband and she’s to loose her home. I’d not be asking her to move out so I can sell it from under her.

Bottom line is the ops husband and brother are inheriting two houses. They can sort the finances to do any interim repairs.

@Veuvestar

Just talk to her If she’s so independent maybe it didn’t occur to her to come to you to get it fixed, would she have done that before fil died? Or would they have hired someone to fix it? Maybe she thought she was doing the right thing, not bothering you and getting it sorted. Just ask her to discuss anything that needs fixing with you, explain that you don’t have unlimited funds and this is an unexpected expense. And deal with issues as they arise, it might need a new boiler, it might not, if it does, that might be the push she needs to move back to her own place. Just communicate and stop worrying

They would have got someone in to sort it, but she has to understand we don't have as much disposable income to just immediately jump in with splashing the cash and paying extra for someone else to do it for us. We don't do it in our house - DH will always try first and if not shop around, so we're not going to start doing it for MIL's house. We're not going to leave her living in a house with issues, but we won't be going over the top with it

@Druidlookingidiot

I think this poor woman has had a raw deal over this. FFS this is her home. Her DH should have made better provision for her. What's she going to do in two years?

No way are we going to try and persuade her to move. She's made a few comments about moving on in time and we've done the usual if you need any help please ask comments, but nothing more. Ultimately that house has been her home for many years, we're not going to start kicking her out of the door!

Ultimately she might be a bit of an old battle axe, and I'm not sure we'll hear much from her when she moves on, but we wouldn't have her out on her ear. FIL wouldn't have wanted that, and IMO that's what's important.

@Bluntness100

In this case, I would encourage her to move back to her own place. That would be the best solution

Gosh that’s mercenary, she’s not lived there for decades and it’s rented out, she’s just lost her husband and she’s to loose her home. I’d not be asking her to move out so I can sell it from under her.

Bottom line is the ops husband and brother are inheriting two houses. They can sort the finances to do any interim repairs.

I didn't read that they'd inherited 2 houses? I think just the one?

The issue is that they have inherited an asset which they can't liquidate for 2 years, with maintenance and repair responsibilities which need to be paid for now. So they need to access some cash now.

DFs wife has the right to live in the house rent free for 2 years. That has a value, and they cannot expect to take it from her for nothing. That's why I suggested up thread that they may wish to consider talking to her and negotiating a fee to effectively buy her out of her right to live there. It would need to be substantial, as it is a benefit with substantial value.

I'm a bit confused as to why OP keeps mentioning the money in the joint accounts that DFs wife inherited - that is her inheritance, and of course she wouldn't want to spend it on maintaining someone else's property - it has nothing whatsoever to do with OPs DH/BIL and is completely unrelated to their property. If DF had wanted DH/BIL to have it to maintain the property, he'd have left it to them, not to her!

She doesn’t ‘have to understand’, you have to tell her!! You can’t blame her if you haven’t explained the situation to her.

*No way are we going to try and persuade her to move. She's made a few comments about moving on in time and we've done the usual if you need any help please ask comments, but nothing more. Ultimately that house has been her home for many years, we're not going to start kicking her out of the door!

Ultimately she might be a bit of an old battle axe, and I'm not sure we'll hear much from her when she moves on, but we wouldn't have her out on her ear. FIL wouldn't have wanted that, and IMO that's what's important.*

That sounds like you will be reasonable.

Does she actually want to move out in 2 years? If she would prefer to stay, can you not negotiate for her to buy you out with a discount on the sale price? That might be the easiest thing all round.

I didn't read that they'd inherited 2 houses? I think just the one?

The op said later there was also a second one.

Op who inherits the money in the accounts? You said she gets part of it. Who gets the rest? And what percentage of it is hers to start with?

Also what’s happening with the second property?

I can see both sides of this issue, it sounds really difficult.
DH and DBIL need to protect their asset over the next couple of years by making sure the property is adequately maintained, but don’t have the cash to do so.
MIL has the perfectly reasonable right to live there whilst she comes to term with her DH’s death and finds suitable alternative accommodation but needs to protect her income and savings which she will no doubt need when she buys/rents another property.
I personally would try to settle this as amicably as possible, maybe talk to a solicitor about the legal position and draw up an agreement between you.
Logic would tell me that the fairest/most reasonable compromise is to share the costs equally between the 3 of them. If the two brothers don’t have the money they could take out a secured loan on the property which could be repaid once it is sold.

@Bluntness100

I didn't read that they'd inherited 2 houses? I think just the one?

The op said later there was also a second one.

Op who inherits the money in the accounts? You said she gets part of it. Who gets the rest? And what percentage of it is hers to start with?

Also what’s happening with the second property?

The majority of cash has gone to MIL as it was in joint accounts. There's another bit but it's not accessible at the moment

If you all get on so well, agree that she carries on maintaining the home, keeps accounts and reimburse her when the house is sold.

@SpiderinaWingMirror

If you all get on so well, agree that she carries on maintaining the home, keeps accounts and reimburse her when the house is sold.

Hmm that's not a bad idea and one she'd probably go for. I'm not feeling that she likes the fact she now has to run stuff past DH or BIL (who would!), so this might be something she prefers. DH spoke briefly to the solicitor today and is planning on talking further about it on Monday

DH and his sibling inherited their family home when their father died. His mother lived in it till her death 20 years later. The house had always been in FIL's name so solicitor at the time suggested the title deeds were transfered into DH and his sibling's name (actually a bad idea that caused a lot of hassle)

Anyhow. MIL lived in the house rent free until her death and paid for all the bills. We were not in a position to have paid for repairs or improvements on the home and if we'd had to, DH would have taken himself off the title deeds.

Granted this woman is only entitled to live there for 2 years but I think she should understand that while your DH has on paper inherited the house, this doesn't mean you can afford to finance it so she has three choices. Pay for all bills and repairs or pay rent or move out.

I remember your thread about the care home and seem to recall mil seemed very hard nosed financially about what income source was going to pay for the care hone costs.

Another issue we had when it came time to sell the house. DH's sibling decided they wanted to buy his half of the house but not until their house was sold, so expected DH to pay half of all bills during this time. Then sibling changed their mind, then covid hit. It's been an absolute shit storm.

My advice would be to get clear guidance not only on sorting out the situation with step MIL, but between the brother's too so when she moves out the brothers are both on the same page as legally one of them can move in to the property. We didn't see that one coming.

@Berthatydfil

I remember your thread about the care home and seem to recall mil seemed very hard nosed financially about what income source was going to pay for the care hone costs.

Yep it was very awkward. I don't blame her for being protective , but she seemed to think it was going to be possible to pay for long term care without any of it touching her money as that would have been what FIL would have wanted - in other words it would have been down to DH/BIL to fund anything not covered by the rest of the estate

@S0upertrooper

Another issue we had when it came time to sell the house. DH's sibling decided they wanted to buy his half of the house but not until their house was sold, so expected DH to pay half of all bills during this time. Then sibling changed their mind, then covid hit. It's been an absolute shit storm.

My advice would be to get clear guidance not only on sorting out the situation with step MIL, but between the brother's too so when she moves out the brothers are both on the same page as legally one of them can move in to the property. We didn't see that one coming.

That's interesting as BIL is considering buying DH out of the other property once the house is available to sell

If BIL is planning on buying our your DH, surely he could do that now? The house does legally belong to them both now, it just has a sitting tenant.