Paternity test, mother refusing and being difficult

[Hahadumball]

So I'll be brief ish..

11 years ago I broke up with my partner as she cheated, cut contact 100% but found out a few months after that she was pregnant, she refused to answer the door and shortly moved.

Fast forward been searching on and off for years as I never knew and wanted to know, I finally found her on social media using a new Facebook account because...she had actively searched my newest account which is under a year old and blocked it... she was also using a different surname until she got married and now uses his name.

Theres no photos of the child on her Facebook which is locked down big time same as the rest of her family... I know the child exists though.

I messaged her asking for an answer to which she said it's her husbands who she didnt meet until over a year after we split up.... I asked to see proof of it and she said she doesnt know where it is then blocked me... she then changed her name completely to something so different like shes hiding from me...

The relationship was never bad and she isnt hiding from me for her safety it just feels like she doesnt want me to know that it may well be mine and just wants her happy family with her husband...

What can I do about this? I can already tell she wont agree to another test that I can see evidence of... shes not asked for any csa and clearly doesnt want me involved... theres no solid proof to say he is mine but dates and her actions sound suspect.

The bottom line here is that this is a child. You do not know if you are the father. The mother may not know. The child may not know.

It is perfectly possible that this is not your child.

For whatever reason this woman has taken a lot of steps for you not to be in contact, there has to be a reason for that. Good or bad. Although you seem to know quite a lot about her life, dates she met her husband, dates she got married, even though you cut contact 100%

But this isn't about you it is about a child, do what is in the child's best interests.

BTW children are human beings, not property.

Crikey. What a long thread this is. Not read all the replies but a number of times I’ve had to check I was still in Legal and hadn’t drifted over to AIBU.

OP - I suggest you either apply for a declaration of parentage as suggested by another poster up thread, or apply for a s8 contact order and ask the court to order DNA testing as part of that.

The child has a right to know the truth.

I found the address of someone from a private investigator for £170, the person used a few different names and was often in between houses. Never worked nor paid any taxes. It took around 24 hours to find their address
I can't believe you couldn't have raised this money in 11 years.
I don't mean to be nasty but you haven't shown that you've done anything to put yourself out in order to find this child. It sounds like the child is probably yours, the mother doesn't want you to have contact. Her reasons could be numerous. So you either pull your finger out and find this woman or leave everything alone.
Oh and I wonder if you've been making savings for this child for the past 11 years in lieu of maintenance if the child is yours?

Are you sure of the dates of birth?
Have you tried genesreunited.co.uk? This will give you the rough date of birth so you are sure of the dates

Good luck. Every child should know their parentage

OP I'm a lawyer (not family law I'm afraid) and I often trace people so I can serve them with court papers.

I just obtain a 'residential trace' through a process server company (there are many) and you give them all the details you have (DOB, last names, addresses, any new info etc) and they will find them and confirm their new address.

There has to be a lawful purpose to you obtaining this information but if it is anticipation of legal proceedings (which if you take the advice of making the applications referred to by PPs then it will be) then you can get it.

Cost wise you could expect to pay around £100 plus VAT for a trace.

You certainly have a lot to consider in terms of the potential monumental impact this could have on the child!

I’m in two minds about this.

Firstly, I was the child in this situation. My dad was 19 when I was born and after an argument while my mum was pregnant he was out of the picture. It has always hurt that he didn’t make the effort from the get go. It will always hurt. I know 19 is young but there are plenty of young dads who do make the effort. He didn’t. There’s no getting around that fact and the hurt it causes the child.

So then he wrote to me at 16. My stepdad was an abusive fucker so I was so excited that my dad had made contact. We wrote back and forth and it was so exciting and then started speaking on the phone. We started meeting up when I was 20. And then within a few months he decided to move hundreds on miles away and the contact between us became sporadic. I was utterly heartbroken by it. It was apparent that he was eager to know who his child was- almost like a novelty- but did he actually want to be properly in my life? No. Did he ever take any responsibility for me? No. Was anything ever achieved by him making contact? No. Just a huge amount of heartache and depression and anxiety. I cut contact with him a couple of years ago as he couldn’t even be bothered to reply to my email.

So my point is this- if you want to be in this child’s life you have to REALLY want to be in this child’s life. You have to be committed. You have to be there for them and be a constant presence and not let them down because you having not been there already will be so confusing and difficult for them. You can’t let that kid down.

Also popping up at age 11 will be too hard for them. They’re too young to deal with a long lost dad. Leave it til they’re 18 now. And don’t think that because they’re 18 they’re a grown up and you can have a chilled out occasional contact thing going on. A dad coming in to a young persons life is a HUGE emotional deal and they have to know you’re really there now.

What concerns me is how you haven’t done enough before now. You could have done way more than this, OP. My dad found me through a cheap private investigator who posed as a parcel company to find my mother. Took one phone call. If you really wanted to be a father you’d have done way more than this before now. Are you pursuing this for you or for the child? If or when you find them are you going to commit to being a father? Have you thought that far down the line?

Your responses are tending to come across as quite aggressive OP - it’s not helping your argument that your ex is hiding for no reason whatsoever.

Secondly, be really, really sure that if you are the father, that you will step up, see the child regularly and be a decent human being. You screwing around with that child’s life after 11 years can, and likely will, have huge repercussions. Think about whether or not you’d be happy to potentially damage the child at the heart of this, just so that you can know.

Why do you think it's your child? What are the timings? Is it just because she was pregnant after you split up? Or is his birthday close to when you split?

How do you know when she met her husband if you couldn't find her?

You were unlucky to get the first few replies/repliers you did. I can only assume they were judging you because you're male (is a huge trigger for some, but by no means all on here) and because you don't use paragraphs!

You absolutely have the right, in my opinion, to ascertain whether a child is yours if you strongly suspect it to be so. You provided us with plenty of pertinent info, so again, ignore those who chose not to read your posts properly.

Where they are half-right is that you do need to consider the child's wellbeing first and foremost. But as others have said, if the child's paternity is in question later, they will come looking. My advice would be to send a reasonable, unemotional, well set out message that you can imagine being read at a later date; document all attempts by you to ascertain paternity, perhaps save some money/start an account in the event you are the father, so you feel you're doing all you can.

Not that helpful, but my main motivation for posting was annoyance on your behalf for some of the aggressive guff coming your way.

This thread really show how misandristic MN is. Ironic to say that children are not possessions when the mother might have very much treated her child as exactly that.

If a women was denied the chance to find out f a child was hers (which indeed is very unlikely), there would be outroar, but indeed, because it's so unlikely, it's easy to see it as a men issue and therefore insignificant.

This is a complex situation with many considerations to take into account, and therefore needs to be taken supported by professional advice.

Just one point that we hopefully all agree on, if you go ahead with legal proceedings to find out, do consider that there is a child on the other side, who if finding out you are their father, might decide they want to get to know you and build a bond with you. It takes A LOT to do that with a child you don't know, and who most likely won't feel like a son of yours. So do you have the dedication, time, patience, mental and moral strength to build something with this child if that was his wishes?

I'm entitled to know and have contact if I want to

If you are not married to your child's mother, or your name is not on the birth certificate you will not have parental responsibility automatically. You can apply to the Courts for parental responsibility or come to an agreement and enter into a parental responsibility agreement with the mother.1 Aug 2019

So there you are.

You're welcome

And, lulu, he did say he went to a consultation and found out he made too much for legal aid but not enough to hire a solicitor. It’s not uncommon for working class to have no access to justice due to legal aid cuts courtesy of austerity..which happened 11years ago. Right when he needed it.

Ex legal aid lawyer who was working in family legal aid law 11 years ago here, no they didn't. The austerity cuts you're talking about were implemented by the Tories, who weren't elected until 2010 and didn't introduce these cuts until 2012. This is a moot point if he were earning too much for legal aid of course, but worth correcting.

Fwiw, the criticism of OP for not having bothered making an effort in the past is legitimate. He mentions having contacted one solicitor and not being able to afford the fees, one. So he has had literally no legal advice at all and spent perhaps a few minutes researching the matter.

There are some solicitors who offer free consultations initially. Others offer initial advice for a fixed fee of £150 or £200, which I do not believe he couldn't have saved up at some point in the past 11 years. There are pro bono projects. It's entirely possible an initial consultation wouldn't have gone anywhere due to lack of resources, but it would have been more than OP has done, is the point. And he still doesn't appear to have gone to a solicitor now despite being in a well paid job!

That being said, the question should be what's in the child's best interests now. There are certainly arguments that this would be knowledge of the truth, but it concerns me that OP hasn't made them.

Some previous posters are right in that you have a right to know if the child is yours at least.
The child will eventually know that they are your child if they are, these things always have away of coming out. If the brother's girlfriend even suspects you are the child's father, then more people will know.
What is really important is that when the child is allowed/wants/is court directed to make contact, that they know you tried and are interested in them and do give a toss about them. If you can establish paternity but contact cannot be established- send letters via the child's mother, perhaps she will allow the child to read them at the opportune time? Mark birthdays with cards via the mother. Send messages via the mother - build up evidence that you tried, even if the child doesn't know about you until they're an adult, it'll mean the world of difference to the child/young person when they do learn about you, to know they had a father that did care about them.

and I did contact a solicitor but when they spoke about fees and such I couldnt proceed. No I didnt go to a private investigator... because I knew I couldnt afford it,

And as the mother of this child wants nothing to do with you, then you have reached a dead end

Accept this and move on

*And as the mother of this child wants nothing to do with you, then you have reached a dead end

Accept this and move on*

Oh, so the mother gets to decide solely because, because? I Oh wait, she's the one that carried the child, so gets all the rights.

What a horrible attitude some women have here. The mother accepted appaulingly, end of. The moment he contacted her to know, she, if she hadn't been a selfish cow, should have agreed to the DNA test if she was so sure he wasn't the father. That would have meant that he could move on if not, or opted to be a father if that's what he wanted.

She denied him this just because she thought as a mother, she had all the control over the child, maybe because she felt she lost control when he ended the relationship and that was her way to take control from him too. Terrible selfish attitude. Everyone should be entitled to know if they have fathered a child.

@Dontdisturbmenow

Read both my posts

Yes the mother does get to decide if the guy isn't married to her or on the birth certificate

It's not about control. It's the law

It really doesnt cost a lot of money to find someone. He didn't even look into it! He didn't even find out the cost.
He apparently spoke to one solicote. One. Did he shop around? No. Did he find out what he could afford, such as applying for a declaration? No. Did he research and self represent? No.

He's had a good job for a year... yet still hasn't done anything which will cost money. But he has decided he should have contact if HE wants too. Nothing about the child. But we're all meant to fall over ourselves to tell him how great he is being and how he totally deserves to be a dad? He's done nothing for 11 years, when it would have been really bloody easy to sort it out if he had done it properly.

@Dontdisturbmenow

Edit: Read both my posts

Yes the mother does get to decide if the guy isn't married to her or on the birth certificate and she chooses not to allow him contact

It's not about control. It's the law

Remember we have no idea why the mother is so adamant that she wants him out of her life

The solicitor issue is a non issue. He didn't and doesn't have her full name and address so there's nothing a solicitor can do. Also, receiving a solicitors letter saying that someone wants to have a DNA test carried out because they 'suspect' they may be the father of a child would have no bearing unless she agreed to have a DNA test carried out. The only way that the mother could be forced to have a DNA carried out on the child is through a court order but it's unlikely a case like this would get to court. She insists that her husband is the father and I assume the OP isn't on the birth certificate so using solicitors and trying to get the case to court would have been a waste of time and money and have gotten him no where.

The only thing he can do and has been doing, is to try and track her down and talk to her. If he managed to get her full name and address then at that point yes, he could contact a solicitor to try and push the issue that he deserves to know and so does the child but again, she can just say no or ignore it. Ok if he contacted the solicitor, he could keep the letters and things to show the child he tried but this would just ruin the relationship between the mother and child as the child would know his mother refused and I'm sure the OP doesn't want that.

OP, all you can now is just keep researching to find out where she is and once you do, send her a letter and just say that you need to know that this child isn't yours and you need proof because you can't consciously live your life knowing there's a chance you have a child and once she has given you this proof, you will leave it alone but until then, you can't.

Have you done all the sums as in when the baby was born, when you were with her, when she cheated and when she met her now husband? Because that's the first thing to do because you don't want to be trying to track her down if there's no chance you're the father.

It's a complicated situation and I'm sure she isn't doing this to be horrible, she is maybe scared and knows she will have to tell the child the truth or maybe she's scared because she doesn't know if you or the person she cheated with is the father. Appeal to her OP if you do get the address and write to her. Tell her that you don't want any trouble, you are more than willing to keep everything quiet or even that you're willing to wait until she feels the time is right to tell the child his dad is not the dad he thought. If she feels that you knowing the truth is going to ruin her family and upset her child, she is less likely to work with you so you need to be saying that you will work with her

@thickwoollytights, he does have rights, he just hasn't enacted them. My comment was in response to your 'move on'. Why should he move on if he wants to know? To suit the wishes of the mother?

As for your point about not knowing the other side, that's the nature of MN. We never know the other side, but funny how posters automatically assume abuse must have gone on if a female poster mentions it but if a men says it didn't, it is doubted.

There are various reasons why mothers decide to move away and break all contact. Sometimes it is to get away from abuse, but other time it is for selfish reasons (if you don't want anything with me, you'll have nothing to do with the child).

As for not having tried hard, who knows. It sounds like she's tried hard to make sure she couldn't be found. In all likelihood, he could have tried harder, but the point is he did ask for a paternity test and she refused, and that is a selfish decision no matter what.

he does have rights, he just hasn't enacted them. My comment was in response to your 'move on'. Why should he move on if he wants to know? To suit the wishes of the mother?

But he says he can't afford to use legal recourse. So Imo he should move on rather than expect the mother to capitulate

I find some of these answers a bit harsh. Assuming no history of any type of wrong doing on your part, if the child is yours, I truly believe they have a right to know. It's all very well saying they don't need you but surely they are entitled to the truth and entitled to know that their father actively tried to pursue a relationship with them. Whilst the child may be happy in oblivion now, who knows what emotional damage could be caused in the future when the truth comes out and it often does. Good luck.

I've told you enough times! He isnt yours can you please let us live our lives in peace!!

Is what I'd tell you if I were the mother.

11 years ago I broke up with my partner as she cheated, cut contact 100% but found out a few months after that she was pregnant, she refused to answer the door and shortly moved.

Given the length of time between the break-up and news of the pregnancy why do you think you are the father?

Also, you were around 17 at the time? How old was your former girlfriend?