Advice! Exes holiday contact with DS

[JoJo2106]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone could perhaps help me with something.

There is a child arrangement order in place for my Ds, he is almost 2. Finished in court in January. There are arrangements in place regarding holiday contact for this year and it states it's to be 7 consecutive nights. The thing is my ex is trying to make it longer which would end up making it 9 days in total. My ex and I do not meet or communicate in any way other than via a communication book due to past DV. So this is now getting into a tit for tat back and forward thing in the book which is very difficult and becoming stressful for me.

The thing I would like to know is am i in my rights to stick to just what the order says. It doesnt say anything other than I've to make child available for 7 consecutive nights. Ds is already going to struggle with the 7 nights let alone any longer due to how he is just after 2 nights away from me.

I'm not willing to argue any longer in the book so would just like to know that I'm.doing the right thing by sticking to.what the order says? He seems to think he can do what he likes basically and has no regard for ds and how he would react been away from home and me that long. He just says 9 days is not too long. It is too long for ds because he doesn't see him once he gets home. Ds has also started to show signs of been withdrawn and not wanting to go at handovers so the less time it is the better.

The order says 7 consecutive nights not 8 nights and 9 days. The reason it would end up that long is once they return it would go onto his normal contact weekend which will make it longer, I have tried to say go on a midweek day and come back on a midweek day that way it will be 7 nights. It says nothing in the order about it going into any usual contact time just that hes to have 7 consecutive nights in summer 2019.

Thank you.

I would just repeat the same sentence. 7 consecutive nights only. Then start wrijg ‘please see above’.

Is he taking him abroad? Does he need written permission? Do you have a legal person you could ask who dealth with it originally?

The courts have deemed 7 consecutive nights. If it's tagged on to his weekend access to it could be longer unless the court order says otherwise. You'd need to go back to court to have it changed.
If you have no contact how do the pickups work?
I only see my dgs once a week, and he's delighted to see me when I do. Yes, it will seem like a long time, but his DF is entitled to have a holiday with him, and he's entitled to have a holiday with his DF. Your DS will be absolutely fine, OP. You'll miss him like mad, no doubt as much as his DF misses him every week now.

I have already done that i literally copied what it says in the order so it was exact. I dont know where hes taking him yet as hes not said. He has to let me know 1 month in advance, the order says he can take ds not prior to september but before the end of 2019. Ds is due to start nursery for the very first time in September so I've said he would need to settle for a few weeks first before taking him out.

He doesn't need my permission as the court have gave him permission to go. I have even tried to say go on your double weekend that way you'll arrive back on your shorter weekend as 1 week ds stays with him Fri at 5pm until Saturday at 1pm. So that would be 7 nights in total. But it's like hes worked it out specifically so it goes into extra time.

I could try contact my solicitor who dealt with it but case is closed now, but I guess they could maybe still help. Just don't want anymore charges I'm already up to my eyes in debt from going to court.

Ds has also started to show signs of been withdrawn and not wanting to go at handovers so the less time it is the better.
This is very telling, OP. You want to reduce contact because according to you your DS is becoming withdrawn. The courts will see that as a reason to perhaps increase contact to strengthen their relationship. This man, no matter what you think of him, is your DSs father and they should be able to have a strong relationship for your DS sake. There are far too many screwed up adults out there who didn't have a relationship with their DF.

@soontobe60 this is the thing there are no specific dates just that it's to not be prior to September but before the end of 2019. The order literally says the mother is to make child available to spend a period of 7 consecutive nights in summer. And that is it. It mentions nothing about going into any other time, just that he gets 7 nights in the summer. He asked for 2 weeks but the court said that's too long for ds age and gave him 7 nights. So surely if they wanted to give any longer they would have?

Yes it will be hard. For both of us.

No I am not trying to reduce contact. I just meant because of how ds reacts after just been away for 2 nights then the 7 nights the court have said he can have is enough. Not go onto more nights and days that aren't mentioned in the order.

Yes ds is showing signs of that and ex has even commented on it himself at handovers when my mum takes ds. He couldn't do anymore contact than he already had because of work.

If he wants to take the child away and needs longer it doesn't feel unreasonable to me for you to be a bit flexible about it.

@chocolatesaltyballs22 the thing is he asked for longer originally and the court felt it was too long for ds age and said he could have 7 nights in total.

Appreciate that but sometimes there needs to be a bit of flexibility. I've been divorced for a long time and we have no court order in place, but an agreement that DD spends 3 nights a week with her dad. But when he takes her on holiday it's for much longer. A child's relationship with their parents shouldn't be dictated by rigid timescales IMO. Otherwise they can just end up being pawns in the divorce.

You've got many yearsof this ahead of you. IME the key to as stress free success as possible is to be willing to show a .little bit of flexibility, absolutely do not allow him to take the piss but a hint of leeway to fit in with a holiday booking is reasonable. The will be times where you will need him to show you the same degree of flexibility so set the example you expect in return.

Is it really worth the arguing and potential expense for what is basically 1 extra night? I don't think you'd get very far with it in court anyway as it's just the 7 nights the court have said and then his usual contact time.

He actually could do the 7 nights though and return ds on his usual day and that totals 7 nights. I am literally going by how ds reacts just after spending 2 nights away from home, so 7 is definitely enough. Plus the court could have actually gave 10 days to give a bit of leeway but they did just say 7 nights is enough for ds age.

WTF, this man isn't trying for longer because he wants his son for longer, he is using it as a way to control and harass OP.--this is part of the pattern of the previous DV OP, I would speak with a solicitor. about this, and if your ex persists in harassing you about it refer him to the solicitor.

Thank you. I think I will need to speak to solicitor so he can clarify the order. Yes it's a control thing. The very reason why we are not allowed to meet or communicate in any way other than the communication book about ds only.

I'm going to be honest and say I think you need to see the bigger picture - the court has said that your ex is able to care for your son, they would not have allowed 7 days otherwise, one day it may be you who wants an alteration to the contact arrangements - 2 extra nights (his normal weekend) seems like a good compromise and your son may actually settle better with it being a few days rather than 2 nights. I have no idea about the reasons for the break up but this is about your son seeing his day and safeguarding regarding that. Can you not arrange to see a mediator together? Your son needs to have his actual needs put central not about gaining extra time or sticking to rules because you don't want the other parent to win. In these either of you could be right, none of us know you but as I said before, abut of flexibility as long as it goes both ways really could be helpful to you

@stucknoue We broke up when ds was 2 weeks old due to DV and his drink and cannabis use. I ended it for DS's sake and he is definitely a happy child and I know I made the right decision to not have him around that. When ds was 7 months old, my ex attacked me while he had hold of ds. He tried to run off with him. He was not allowed to see him for 8 months on the courts say so then dond supervised contact which has slowly progressed to overnight. Ds has only stayed overnight with his dad from March of this year.

Ex asked for more holiday contact in court but they said it was too long for ds age and gave him 7 nights in total. They could have gave 10 days even but they didn't and said 7 was enough.

He would never ever be flexible with me honestly it's all about control. I am very flexible with times etc due to his work but I'm not prepared to start adding extra days on as if I give an inch he'll take a mile and start doing it constantly.

Really not worth arguing over. Your son will return the same after 7-8-9 nights. It is normal for children to be unsettled after contact, moreso when the parents are anxious themselves.

You’ve got a long road ahead of you. The worst thing for your son is conflict. That’s worse for him than going for 8/9 nights instead of 7.

You can use this as an opportunity to show goodwill. Don’t start a 16 year game of tug of war. Drop the rope. You aren’t guaranteed a favourable outcome in court. That’s a hell of a lot of stress, and he could actually request even more things you don’t want as a cross application, over a night or two.

@MissMalice I just dont understand why he cant go the following week. The perfect time would be to go on the friday which is the start of the double weekend and he'd return ds the following saturday which is 7 nights and 8 days. My thinking is if the court wanted him to have longer surely they'd have gave him 10 days as he had asked for 2 weeks originally But they said 7 was enough.

Maybe from his point of view the holiday contact is intended to be additional to weekend contact, and by doing it your proposed way, they only get 5 nights of holiday contact between weekends?

Either way, the conflict is the worst possible thing for your son so focus on how you can keep that to a minimum.

You seem to assume that your son is going to be miserable and being with his dad is seething to bear until he can be happy with you again. This is doing no favour to your boy. 2yo do tend to not like change and will react emotionally to it, but will very quickly be happy again. It's like when you say they have to come to have their bath when thry are playing and they scream because they don't want to stop what they are doing, ut the moment they are in the bath, they play with the other toys, love it, and then scream because they don't want to come out.

Is your ex taking him somewhere for a week and the reason for the 9 days is to add travelling to the week away? 9 days can feel like a long time, I fully sympathise with the anxiety, but things will be much better if you work with your ex rsther than battle with your ex. Ideally, where you want to be is to let your son go however long your ex wants but with the reassurance that if your son was genuinely miserable (unlikely) he would bring him back earlier.

@MissMalice Maybe. I even said go Monday to Monday or Tuesday to Tuesday etc then it's still a full 7 nights. It doesnt go into detail in the order it just says 7 consecutive nights and that is it. It doesng mention any extra or usual contact time whereas Christmas time and birthdays do specify those details.

He is entitled to 7 nights as holiday butbif his contact weekend immediately follows those nights I think he s entitled to that in addition. If he is doing it to wind you up it is working! I would go with the flow and let him see his silly games is not working ! In the future you will need flexibility on both sides as far as child care/wanting your son to be with you for some family event on his weekend etc.

As long as you believe your son is not in danger then don't sweat the small stuff

Does that perhaps restrict where he can go? Many holiday lets are Friday or Saturday starts for 7 days only.

If it doesn’t say it can’t run alongside weekend contact then he isn’t doing anything wrong and you’d have to return to court hoping that a judge sided with you. They may not.

And again, it’s the conflict that will harm your son. Do what it takes to avoid conflict. Involving solicitors and court will not reduce conflict, it will increase it.

Yes, you are well within your rights to refuse to extend to 9 nights as you are sticking to your end of the court order by allowing 7.
But dont you think you can let it go this time and just allow 9 nights? It's only 2 extra nights not an extra week.

But am I doing anything wrong by just going by the order and saying to have 7 nights? That's what I really want to know. Maybe the court order should have been more specific with the details on that part because as I say it does mention normal contact days on Christmas and birthdays etc.

Beauty of us not having to meet or speak means ds is not exposed to any conflict between us and is also the reason I'm.no longer with this man so ds would not be around this.

It says at the end of the order that if we have any disagreements in relation to child arrangements we are to go to mediation. So does that mean it wouldn't just go straight back to court anyways?