Family court re child access

[justchecking1]

I'm posting this on behalf of DP. I know you'll say it's none of my business, but I have access to Mumsnet and he doesn't do easier for me to ask. I'm not get involved in real life other than to support DP.

Access arrangements for his DD have broken down. Previously he had 2 evenings every week and EOW Friday to Sunday. His ex has now said one evening per week and every Sunday 10-8. No overnights. DP also has other children who followed the same pattern (no changes with these).

ExP won't say why she wants to change but has recently started a new hobby for which she needs childcare every Sunday. This would seem to be the reason.

She won't go back on the new arrangement so DP has arranged mediation and is fully prepared to go to court. However, he can't get an individual interview date for mediation until end of May so it looks like the whole process is likely to take months.

My question is, what does he do in the meantime. He clearly doesn't want to stop seeing DD, that isn't an option. However his fear is that if he goes along with the suggested contact then by the time it finally gets to court the judge will see it as the new normal and won't change it back again. It clearly isn't in DDs best interests as it reduces her sibling contact and since her GPs live far away she will never see them (can't get there and back in one day and they can't get to us).

Should we stick to EOW but just have the Sunday's? Or go along with every Sunday? What would be your advice for now if in the future DP was going to ask the judge for the original agreement back?

Thanks for any help you can offer

He would never stop payments. According to the CSA calculator he already pays more than what they would suggest for someone who never saw their child at all so I'm not sure how she thinks she's going to get more

He needs to point this out to his ex then. That the money could in fact go down.

coes shr mean EOW plus every sunday abd drop mid week ? To be honest if he drops of at 8 on the Sunday is it really the worst thing in the world ? yes it's no ideal but she isn't going to give another over night so could you not just do it to keep things similar to how they are? no one knows what will happen at court so if I could avoid it by bringing back an hour later I would do that

I started a new thread on this but was advised to add it to this one.

I'm wondering now if you can help with the next issue. DP went to mediation, put his side across and was told ExP would now be invited to do the same. He hadn't heard anything so contacted the mediation centre to find out what was happening. He was told ExP had stated she didn't want to attend. In the meantime contact has been mostly reestablished as per their original agreement. However DP still keen to get something in writing so that ExP can't keep doing this.

On pick up at the weekend ExP quite blatantly stated that he would have no choice now but to take her to court if he wanted an agreement in writing and that she hoped it would cost him everything he had. He asked what she meant and she just smirked at him, saying it will cost him more than money. He again asked what she meant, and she said if he takes it to court she will claim he is harassing and intimidating her and will get an order from the court to prove it. She will then be entitled to legal aid while he will be likely to lose his job (works with children) or at least any chance of a decent career.

DP is very rattled by this and from asking around it appears you don't need any objective evidence for a harassment order or non-molestation order, just the subjective "feeling" of being intimidated is enough. There is absolutely no evidence of harassment or intimidation as it simply hasn't happened. He is now saying he is too frightened to take her to court as any sniff of any sort of abuse accusation genuinely could end his career.

Surely this can't be right?? Surely she needs some kind of evidence to claim abuse? Are the courts not wise to this type of claim at the point that legal action is threatened in order to claim legal aid?

I am dumbfounded that he can be held over a barrel like this but he is terrified to pursue things in case she is right.

I am asking on here for anyone with any experience to give their view on things as if she may be able to pull this off, DP is genuinely screwed and won't be able to go to court, but this seems unbelievable to my (probably naive) brain!

Thank you for any advice you can offer

Well you do needs to step up and get active. Told my dp the same, no point complaining while allowing the problems to continue especially without any official order to help support contact. ( court orders do not stop crazy ex's but they are monitored)

So, he needs to stop contact or inform the ex that they will be meeting in a neutral place from now on when it comes to pick ups or drop off. Asda/ somewhere that is busy with CCTV.

He needs to email the ex and explain that after her threats on X day ( stick to the point, false allegations to get legal aid, non mol and to risk his job) it is not safe for him to be around her and that until court ordered he will not be, also at court he will be requesting a third party to support hand overs or collecting from school Friday and drop of Monday every other week.
He needs to request mediation send over the part to go straight to court, because the situation has changed and the ex has now stated to make threats. Mediation can't happen in these situations.

Then he needs to apply to court and explain the breakdown of contact and the allegations the ex has threatened to make if he attempts to get a contact order.
He should only communicate with her through email.
It maybe a tough month but sometimes these threats aren't just that and the affect they have on the dc is worse.

If your dp doesn't seek a proper contact order, then I would consider your relationship. Partners can have allegations made about them too.

Thank you.

Does she need to be given a certain time to go to mediation before he can go to court, or can he put the request in straight away?

How difficult would it be to self represent in this case? Is it worth the expense of a solicitor now because of the accusations?

Sorry @justchecking1 lets just stop at should WE stick to EOW. Please do not be that partner who interferes in something that has nothing to do with you. Let your DP resolve this with his Ex themselves.

Sorry @justchecking1 I always comment whilst reading through. As for the new development, yes she can get a Non Mol Order against him if she feels he is intimidating and harassing her. Yes she needs evidence, but if she smirked I would say that she has that already. I think my last post I said do not interfere and I stand by that.

Mediation, you do not need to attend mediation if you have been a victim of DV. It sounds like she has been seeking legal advice of her own tbh. You only know what your DP tells you, don't be sucked into it.

If he is seeing his DD but still not happy then take it to court, but keep it amicable. I personally do not see what the issue is. Because he is not getting his own way he keeps threatening to take her to court. Your on here asking strangers about an issue that has nothing to do with you, again could be seen as harassment in court.

@IronManisnotDead he's not happy because there is the constant threat of access being withdrawn hanging over his head!

There really is no evidence of harassment, she's smirking because she doesn't believe she needs any evidence as she thinks if she just claims she feels threatened then that's enough. She believes claiming a subjective feeling of intimidation is enough, and that there doesn't need to be any objective evidence. I was simply asking if that was correct?

Mediation, you do not need to attend mediation if you have been a victim of DV

Again, do you not need any evidence of this? Is just claiming it happened enough?

IANAL but I don't think he should be put off court by her threats. The court only cares what's best for the children and will take a dim view of games played by parents. They will be keen to put in place a consistent routine so that is in your DP's favour.

Re mediation, if she's told the mediator she doesn't want to attend, they can sign the court application form to say she won't attend and the application can go in with the £215 fee. A court date will likely be set within 6 weeks.

As I said on your other thread, see a decent family solicitor. Go to court and get it sorted. The child in question will be asked what they want. If a parent doesn’t allow access to the other parent, that’s usually bed news for the manipulative parent. A solicitor can give an opinion on her threats.

A judge would be able to see through all of this. Magistrates might not. Mediation is better. You now don’t have much option but to consult a family solicitor and talk through options and likely outcomes.

She will need evidence of this harassment in order to claim legal aid.

And it's not very easy to get a non mol order.

Just be honest - keep the child at the centre of everything. Keep records.
Family Courts really don't fanny about getting embroiled in warring parents.

I have self represented twice in family court and it has been fine. My ex had a barrister and I was intimidated at first but it was actually the best thing in the end as the barrister wanted a resolution.

nb The solicitor that did my divorce did help me a few of the papers and also gave me some telephone advice (for free as it happens).

Cafcass saw right through ex, as did the magistrates.

How awful for you and your dp.

She can refuse to go the mediation, however it won’t look good on her if she doesn’t go.

From now on I’d recommend he doesn’t talk to her. Set up an email address just for her and only use this. Make sure EVERYTHING is in writing. Do not talk directly to her other than through email or text. Arrange to drop off and collect dd with either friends or relatives. Also get yourself a good solicitor and explain everything that’s happened, what she’s threatened etc.

A non mol isn’t an easy thing to get. My ex attacked me and I struggled and was told, as it was a one off it would be u likely I’d get one. If she tries to play the harassment card, the quicker you establish proper communication channels and employ a solicitor the better

A non molestation order is not handed out like candy.

My sisters partner has this with his ex, and has tried to blame him multiple times (it's been to court four times now) and not once has she been granted an order.

Judges are not stupid. They can see through vexation claims and they hate that. Just make sure he has everything saved (texts from her) and try to get these things in email. Unfortunately recording her isn't normally admissible if she doesn't know about it, but you could always voice record as a just in case.

Magistrates can be stupid though. Utterly depends on who hears the case!

I think he needs a lawyer asap the lawyer will be the best person to advise on how to protect him and his relationship with his daughter

That doesn't make sense why would exP want her DD returned at 8pm so they can have alone time? Also why woupd sje suddenly stop all overnights? I would be asking a lot more questions, as it doesn't make sense.
I would suggest getting mediation 1st - look for one that is more available. There's a website that lists mediators. Be very clear about what he wants & why - put the child central to all reasoning.
If exP refuses to attend then straight to court.
If your dp think his dd is being upset or that there is a danger that she is suffering harm from these changes that are being imposed then you don't always have to mediate - there is a bit on the court form where you can skip mediation due to the child being harmed by what's happening.