Child maintenance System has no regard for the fathers family

[Lsimms97]

I’m absolutely in shock at how many posts I am reading from women slating their children’s fathers who are refusing to pay maintenance through CMS. I am a woman and if I ever break up with my husband, I would never ever put in a CMS claim because I respect him. I understand that sometimes there are deadbeat fathers and CMS is the only option, but for loving fathers who actually see their children, please do not use CMS! My husband’s ex, who has a drug problem, is unemployed and takes up drug habits whilst my stepchild is at school all day, has decided that after years of a family based arrangement, that she would like to put in a CMS claim, in which she has lied about the existence of my children and the amount of nights we looks after my step child for. CMS are being extremely difficult about this and forcing us to go through tribunal courts to resolve the incorrect information whilst at the same time they are taking incorrect payments from us which is everything we have after paying rent. The result is that we are now left struggling to feed and clothe two toddlers. I love my stepchild and would never see them go without, we are a huge part in their life and have never refused to pay for school uniforms, lunch money, top ups, holidays etc, clothes, haircuts...anything which is needed! But the reality is my stepchild is walking around in a pair of £200 trainers, has all of the latest gadgets etc and we have nothing left for our children. His ex has even sent us a picture of a takeaway and said ‘cheers’ because she is getting so much money and it does not take that much money to raise one child. Do you not also think that as mothers, you should also contribute to the child’s upbringing? CMS payments mean that fathers pay for everything even though it takes two to tango. My poor husband has Had his life ruined by this woman constantly using the child as a weapon and now she’s found a new way to get to him. The sad reality is he is going to have to quit his job or we lose our home. I also work part time by the way, but we cannot cover the unrealistic payments and still support our children. CMS do not care about this, I have cried down the phone to them and they literally couldn’t care less.so please women, if you have any respect for your ex, please seek a family based arrangement. So many men have committed suicide over this, and been left in poverty. It isn’t fair. The CMS are awful!

Lots of people don't hoave holidays outside the UK and the problem with some countries abroad they give all legal rights to the father so it can be quite dangerous to let children into some countries and some countries have officials it is not that hard to bribe either. Probably best you come back to near your child for all your annual leave at least for now or at least just hire a holiday cottage for say 2 weeks in the summer or go to your parents if they are in England and do contact there if you can get agreement or the courts agreeing so. The closer you will see the child to the child's home the more likely the mother will agree I suspect. Life is very unfair for most people and I think a lot of child congtact issues are more about psychology and law - how you can find that one thing that makes the ex partner happy to let you see a child - what would she like, what is the thing you can do to make her think she has won and you are utterly cowed even though you aren't which then releases the key to the door of contact even if it is contact near her in wherever she is.

Xenia

Ex has recently told CMS that she has child 7 nights per week. So she does not even want me to see child when I am in the UK, but wants grandparents to look after child when it suits!

Ex has recently told CMS that she has child 7 nights per week. So she does not even want me to see child when I am in the UK, but wants grandparents to look after child when it suits!

You have to have the children at least 52 nights a year for the shared care deduction to kick in. If you have them for 51 nights or less then, in law, she has them on average for 7 nights a week. That's how it works.

To Collaborate

I understand the days per year and CMS also told me that days with grandparents do not count. Just think it was a cheek to want grandparents to look after child every weekend and all school holidays which is about 170 nights per year, but at same time want 365 days per year child maintenance!

My parents checked things out and were told that they are under no obligation to look after grandchild. So sadly for the child and his grandparents the outcome is that they will not look after him in the future.

Hard decision for my parents to make as child is their only grandchild. However, there is a principle involved which is called:

“Don’t be played for a fool”

If ex wants CM to be calculated on basis she has child 7 nights per week she will have to earn it by looking after the child 7 nights per week.

My parents checked things out and were told that they are under no obligation to look after grandchild. So sadly for the child and his grandparents the outcome is that they will not look after him in the future.

I'm going to breach one of my self-imposed rules here on Legal*, by observing that your parents are callous bastards if they now won't see their own grandchild purely because their son doesn't thereby earn a discount on child maintenance. And you are culpable too if you haven't tried to dissuade them from this course of action.

• I wouldn't post a personal comment but I'm staggered that you think the thing that makes you look a fool is your parents seeing your son, rather than the obviously foolish position you seem to have taken over this..

To Collaborate

Wow. The longer this thread goes on the more agitated you seem to become.

Without knowing the history over the last 9 years your initial reaction is understandable. However, it was my parents decision as they are the ones in UK and it’s their property.

All kicked off as child was being dumped at his grandparents house without any advance warning. Several times neighbors have had to take him in if grandparents have not been around.

The CMS calculation was based on average of one night per week as default as it was agreed that there was shared care, but there was no regular pattern. So I pay 6/7 of the full amount. If it is calculated that there is no shared care the CM will increase by 1/7. Not a great deal in actual cash terms. Maybe £15 per week.

I think what will happen is that ex will realise that grandparents contribution is worth a lot more than £15 per week as that is about what childcare costs per hour. Grandparents too will soon cave in I think.

Easy issue to solve. Ex needs to tell grandparents when she would like them to look after him and not assume they are permanently on call.

I am happy to pay £15 per weeks if child gets more time with his grandparents and his mother gets some time to pursue her own life and hopefully move on in life. However, ex’s expectation that grandparents will have child every weekend and all school holidays is a bit over the top.

It can be quite a burden on grandparents anyway so now we know more of the background I can see why they took that decision. As you say the mother may realise the grandparental help is useful and do something about it. I suspect you might find a relationship with your child easier if in due course you move your career here although teenagers love lovely holidays with swimming pools in hot countries particularly if you throw in a free invitation to their best friend so you might just find a year or two if you can keep up some contact and make the child think of you as someone happy and nice to them (not easy when the parents are at war) that the child is keen to visit (and once older can take their own decisions about it).

Also remember children are adults more than they are children. My youngest are 19. For the next 30 years their relationships with us as parents will be with adult children so play the longer game if you can.

Xenia

Son wanted to visit me in Malaysia and do a trip around; Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong and Vietnam as all fairly close to each other in flying times. Grandmother was prepared to escort him as only 12.

However, child's passport and letter of consent to take out of the UK never appeared. So looks like son will have to do what his half sister did. Wait until they are 18 and make his own decisions.

Stepdaughter was on a plane to Dubai 2 days after her 18th Birthday Party. I had enough air miles and hotel loyalty points to make travel and accommodation not too expensive for her and friend (boyfriend to be exact).

Your poor child, it seems he’s a bargaining chip for everyone.

Wee soul.

Whatever shit is going on between the adults shouldn’t affect the child. And I say that as someone who has worked damn hard in the face of extreme provocation NOT to let any of it affect my son.

His father has pulled every dirty trick in the book, he’s treated my son like shit, and made my life and DPs life (and by extension our younger 2 DC) difficult.

DS1 knows about none of it, because it’s not his burden to bear.

I hope your parents didn’t choose not to see him because of money, because that’s how it reads and if that is the case shame shame shame on them, and on you.

Go home, be a father.

Go home and be a father

Thinking of trying it when current contract ends next year.

I used to say to my XH, he won’t always be small, one day he’ll stand nose to nose with you and you’ll have to explain all the times you weren’t there and why.

Your son won’t always be small either, and the point scoring and pettiness aren’t doing him any favours.

He’s a little boy, all he gives a shit about is being cared for by his family. The rest of it shouldn’t be his concern.

And “earning” child maintenance is about the most wanky thing I’ve ever heard of. It’s not her money, it’s for your son.

MissedTheBoatAgain That sounds like a good plan. Stop just thinking about it and do it.

I haven't read all the comments but I do agree with the OP that if you are able to come to an agreement regarding maintenance then you shouldn't be using the cma they are overstretched as it is and need to be concentrating on chasing the non residential parents who refuse to pay.

My partner has 2 children from his first marriage they had an agreement in place and for years he paid £250 a month plus all school uniforms, school trips, braces, glasses, clubs, haircuts, bus passes, school lunches etc basically anything the children needed. He has never been a high earner btw he just believes he has a responsibility to his children.

When I was pregnant with our first child together his ex decided to go to the cms she cheerfully sent a text saying she had decided he wasn't paying enough if he could afford another child so she was "going to get the csa to make him pay her more" totally disregarding the fact that I had a fairly well paid job which meant my wage could cover our child without my partners financial input. The cma assessed my partner and going on their calculations he now has to pay her £180 a month and was told not to pay for extras as that is all he is assessed as needing to pay. So she wasted an overstretched services time and got awarded less money, the cma could have been chasing a non payer for a parent who isn't receiving anything.

She also insisted on taking my partner to court over access because she wanted it in writing, he had been having the children every school holiday and 1 weekend a month for years (they live 4hours away as she moved) but she told the judge she wanted it in writing so he couldn't back out, even the judge told her she had wasted everyone's time. We all then missed out as the judge decided the kids should get some of the holidays at home to spend time with her and their friends.

I should add that even though we know have 3 children together and I'm not working and my partners eldest child is now 20 and at uni so not included in maintenance payments anymore so the cma have assessed him as only needing to pay £160 a month he still pays the £180 and gives his son £50 a month to pay for bus fare, hair cuts etc and we do a regular shop for his eldest at uni. We have just adjusted our spending and my partner works 6 days a week to make sure all the kids are cared for. The fact his ex earns double our household income doesn't matter my partner knows he has to provide for his son.

The thing I do find unfair is that the cma works on the gross income rather than the nett as they are basically using money that doesn't come into the household to assess which does make it tighter for the nrp and new family (if that makes sense)

smiling The cms would cut child maintenance as you had another child. CM is the minimum. I do not believe that you were told not to provide a penny more for extras. Most parents who can afford to, give their their children money while at university and don't expect a pat on the back for it.

sue51 I'm not asking for a pat on the back and I don't care what you believe the cma told my partner that he shouldn't pay for extras as he was assessed to pay what he had to pay. The drop in money was because my step daughter went to college and no longer counted due to the course she was doing we didn't tell them about our children as didn't want it reassessed because of them as my step son still needs cared for

Cms expect you to pay what they have calculated which is the basic minimum, anything extra paid to the rp is of no interest to them. Everyone I know pays for their adult children whilst they are at university because that is what parents do.

That sounds like a good plan. Stop just thinking about it and do it

And wait for all the flack that comes from Ex as both CM and SM have gone. CM would go if I was to become PWC. SM according to Legal advisers would vanish as my UK earnings would not be sufficient to cover the existing SM. It would require a return to court to get the SM removed from the Consent Order, but a simple argument as SM was based on myself being overseas and renting the FMH for £800 per month. Ex's SM is half the rent. My Barrister made sure the Consent Order was worded in such way.

If Ex's only income was her part time job and WTC (about £850 per month in total) I don't think she would be able to; run a house, run a car, feed and clothe herself.

This is why she would never agree to me being PWC as she would lose:

CM £650 per month
CTC £277 per month
SM £400 per month

A total of £1,327 per month. A big drop by anyone's standards?

Let's see what flood of comments i receive next.

The courts would take your sons opinion into account. If your ex is so negligent, surely his welfare trumps her supposed needs.

Let's see what flood of comments i receive next.

Honestly? From every comment you’ve written, it’s all about money and getting one over on your ex who sounds pretty money orientated too, along with your parents.

Poor kid, where money trumps everything else and the adults in his life are too busy fucking each other over and point scoring to put him first.

I don’t even know the wee soul, but I find myself hoping that he has someone to give him a cuddle and let him know he is loved and valued.

Money isn’t everything. It’s nice and all, but enough is good enough.

Put your boy first, because nobody else is.

I don't think it matters if you are maleor female and whether the children are living with you or not these issues are always difficult for everyone involved.

Money does not trump everything but it is certainly very unfair how divorce law works out - my children's father pays nothing ,was paid a lot by me and never helps with the children. Then you get countless fathers out there who pay but never get to see children they want to see. Thankfully most parents instead just reach agreements but it's not easy.

As Missed's son is 12 pretty soon he willh ave more rights to choose. I know a man who deliberately did not divorce until the youngest was 13 because he knew they would want to live with him (their mother was usualy not around at home etc ) and that worked fine. They then had a choice and chose to live most of the time with their father although most teenagers will want most of all to be with their friends whether based with their mother or father so that's always an issue. In fact fathers who think mothers have so much time with teenagers might remember that some teenagers hardly leave their rooms and just grunt at you when they want food or clean clothes rather than there being hours of happy bonding day in day out.

I’d be happy if I didn’t have to remind XH that lightbulbs and a curtain that isn’t taped to the wall are a necessity!

That sounds a bit grim although probably a lot of people have the odd thing that doesn't work in a house from time to time.

Aye that I could and would understand. Shutting him in a dark room for 2 nights with a takeaway fit for a grown man and an Xbox not so much.

More than anything I wish he’d see the boy in front of him and realise how amazing he is. That’s what kills me.

Sorry days and nights.

Then you get countless fathers out there who pay but never get to see children they want to see

Pleased someone has worked out what is going on.

I find myself hoping that he has someone to give him a cuddle and let him know he is loved and valued

He does. They are called; grandparents, father and half sister. But has not seen any of them in last 5 months.

Ex has always disliked Grandparents as jealous of affection that developed between child and his Grandparents. Even before divorce she complained about the amount of time child spent with grandparents. They lived close by so easy for child to walk to their house.

After the divorce she moved as far away as possible to make it more difficult for child to see grandparents, but at same time complains how much she has to spend on petrol doing a 30 mile each way trip for school. With settlement she received could have bought a house that was within walking distance of her place of work and child's school. But it was all about punishment for the Grandparents who did not side with her during divorce.

Ex's daughter (my stepdaughter) was abused for years before she left home to attend University. Numerous times she had to sleep on grandparents sofa after being kicked out of house by her mother even as young as 14!

Daughter is double of her biological father so maybe her mother thinks she is getting her own back on him for divorcing her before she met myself?

I am disliked by Ex as I (like her first husband) had the audacity to Divorce her.

Met the first husband once before the marriage as accompanied the daughter to see him as he lived in a different Country. He warned me about the nightmare I was considering to marry. A huge alarm bell that I should have heeded, but did not.

However, son had been born by then and I wanted to relocate him to the UK as safer, better education and being in EU would present more opportunities. Marriage was the easiest way to get them all into the UK. Particularly the Stepdaughter as I could argue she was my dependent child after marriage to her mother.