Keeping my son in hospital against my will

[TaashenMartian]

My son was born at 34 weeks on the 14th October with a heart condition. For the duration of his life (2 months) we have been in different hospitals. He is now stable enough to go home until his operation but because me and my sons dad had an argument in the hospital social services are involved and they won’t let us take him home. I have another child (a3 year old) who is still in my care and they have no plans to take her away. I want to know if they can legally keep my son in hospital due to safeguarding issues If my daughter is still in my care? Can I legally self discharge him if he is well enough to go home even though social services are involved? They have no reason to take my children from me as all it was was an argument, hence why my daughter is still in my care. But they are refusing to discharge my son until the case is resolved. Can they legally do this? What rights do I have? I feel if there are real safeguarding issues and my son can not be in my care then surely my daughter can’t either? Any advice would be much appreciated. This is incredibly stressful and I just want my son home for Christmas

OP, can you explain the circs of the argument that lead to SS involvement? This may shed more light on your current situation.

They do need a court order but if they have advised you not to take him and you take no notice this could go against you if they try to get a court order. I can see how frustrating this must be for you. You need to get advice, you need a meeting wit SS so they can outline their concerns with you, if they feel your child is at risk then they should give you options ( ways to prove he’s not at risk ), they can’t just demand that a healthy child stays in hospital, they either get a court order to remove him from your care or they let you take him home.

I’m pretty sure that until they have a court order they can not stop you taking him home if the hospital say he’s well enough to be discharged.

I need to call back the solicitor on Monday. Tomorrow I will be asking for it in writing that he is well enough to go home. It seems that technically the hospital cannot refuse to discharge him because of social services unless they have a court order to keep him there, which they don’t. The hospital have acurlaly been very understanding of our situation and are ready to discharge him but they have said they would like to wait for confirmation from the social worker before they do so. I am trying to work with them and do whatever I takes to get him discharged but it seems like they are needlessly prolonging it. The whole situation is very distressing for us. My partner cannot be at the hospital when I am not there as he works over an hour away from the hospital. He can’t just give up his job to be there, just as I can’t give up my other child to be there 24 hours a day. I also don’t actually have anyone to look after her for more than a few hours. I don’t think they think I couldn’t cope as I have made it clear to them that if he is discharged then I can care for both of them much easier as they will both be at home with me. It’s very difficult to have a 3 year old at the hospital 24 hours a day

I’m pretty sure that until they have a court order they can not stop you taking him home if the hospital say he’s well enough to be discharged

They can get the police to bring the child back to hospital even without a court order if they deem they child at risk. They will then get an order granted.

I've worked in a neonatal unit and parents being there 24/7 is not the norm at all.

It's not a neonatal unit, its a childrens ward, and parents there 24/7 is completely normal.
A baby would need their own nurse if the parent was not there.

A baby would need their own nurse if the parent was not there.

A baby should have their own nurse even if the parent are there.

Social devices are keeping the child in the hospital as it is easier to get your son into their custody from hospital (if they feel they need to)
It is harder for them to take him once her is in the family home and you are taking on full PR.
Make sure you have everything in black and white so you have a paper trail to keep you in the right.
I hope this all works out for you and you get your wee one home for Xmas

Is there no way of getting a meeting with the lead doctor and the social worker again?

I have worked on children's wards and neonatal units and the time spent by parents varies greatly depending on the support the family have. With longer term stays 24/7 is not the norm. However I don't think this is the issue.

OP what is your partners relationship with staff like? have the interactions been positive? Is he visiting frequently?

I'm so glad @viva and @lucked who both have first hand experience have confirmed that it's unusual for parents to be there 24/7.

@curry I know you're trying to advise the op but do try and think of how your posts on his thread have made other parents who have had ill children feel. We don't all have family support or the finances to allow partners to take unlimited unpaid leave from work.

Oops sorry @curry wrong poster.

The baby is 2 months old, so OP is on maternity leave. So no need for leave from work, unpaid or otherwise.

Children who are not babies who are on a childrens ward do not need anyone with them 24 hours a day, either nurse or parent.

A baby should have their own nurse even if the parent are there

a lot of things should happen in the nhs that do not!

The hospital can't have simultaneously said they cannot discharge your child until social services tell them it's considered safe to do so, and told you that you're under no obligation to actually listen to ss wrt whether to take your child home or not.
Your grasp of what is actually happening is extremely muddled, you really need to clarify what's what. And nobody on the Internet can do it for you.

I could actually imagine them saying that. Manager tells staff not to discharge baby yet but staff aware no legal right to keep baby.

I've certainly seen doctors tell an adult patient they won't discharge them as too sick. Doctor leaves, patient kicks off, I point out we don't imprison people against their will and if they want to go they can. So conflicting advice from staff.

curry maybe you need to back away from the thread.

It never fails to surprise me when random strangers just know there is more , give folk a break ffs!

SS are not knights in shining armour. They fuck up and make bad decisions. My friend left SW because it was a shambles. I've had experience of a professional taking an off the cuff remark massively out of context and start of a chain of events that could have ended catastrophically.

Lesson learned here op choose your words wisely next time you talk about your private life with professionals.

Hope you the best of luck

Keeping a baby in hospital against a parent's wishes involves long drawn out procedures which involves the parents. The NHS especially in paediatrics are now so stretched it would not detain a baby unless absolutely necessary. I'm not sure what the OP hopes to gain from this thread the hospital aren't going to let her ds go home with her on our say so. She needs to go through the proper procedures with her solicitor.

Sorry, just wanted to point out (if it hasn't been already, sorry I've only skimmed the last couple of pages as wanted to post this) that I'm not sure it needs to be assumed that the hospital's concern is the fact that the OP or her partner aren't there 24/7, it sounds more like they are concerned where there were "some days" that no one came to see the baby? I would think that is quite unusual?

OP I say this with compassion and empathy for your situation, but I'm not sure you yourself are fully aware of all the concerns the hospital/SS have yet, hence why I do believe you think there's nothing more to this, but I'm really not sure it will transpire you are right about that. Newborns are vulnerable anyway and I do wonder if people around you are just genuinely concerned that with your current dynamic you are not going to be able to cope with a poorly baby who needs a major operation.

Also, if you're not aware of an other potential concerns yourself, that in itself could be a red flag for SS if they feel something else is amiss.

Poor little baby, like other PP's my main concern is for him and I hope that whatever happens he is well looked after and loved.

There should be a child protection lead nurse on the children's ward. Perhaps you can request a meeting with them as they are the go between for SS and hospital

In terms of people saying they may be concerned you wouldn't cope if you were at home as you are struggling now, I don't think this can be where the social worker is coming from. My daughter has a chronic illness and has been in and out of hospital a lot. We also have an older DC and when DD was born she was in hospital for 4 weeks. In those weeks 2nd DC had to move into the hospital accomodation with us and I would read him books, play with him and take him out where I could but if I didn't also have the support of grandparents, friends and DP I can't see how we would have done it as like you say the older child can't sit in the hospital room 24 hours.

Can your DP take some time off? I understand its hard but he should be able to take some compassionate leave?

Also as others have said in NICU/SCBU we were encouraged to go downstairs to get lunch or get home for a bit, I wanted to breastfeed so turned it down as it was on demand but the nurses had offered to bottle feed if I wanted to go home/nap etc.

Once she was discharged and then readmitted to the childrens ward I was then in full control of her basic care (minus medicines etc.), the major difference being that in NICU she always had her own nurse, or one between 2, babies in the same room and mostly always sleeping. In the childrens ward they are usually between many more children and I can see that feeding/changing/settling a baby on their own would take their time.

the childrens ward I was then in full control of her basic care. In the childrens ward they are usually between many more children and I can see that feeding/changing/settling a baby on their own would take their time.

This is why it may be concerning ss, OP says there are some days that no one is at the hospital so I’m assuming the nursers are left to do the basic care that parents would usually do.
Also OP says that DS dad is ‘not there much’ as he is an hours drive away. Not sure what ‘not much’ is but it could also be concerning.

I would expect on the nights OP can’t stay for her partner to maybe stay. Like you, I took my other DC in with me a lot (age 3) with toys, iPad, etc. It wasn’t obviously ideal but I didn’t have much childcare and wouldn’t have wanted to leave other DC in hospital alone.

OPs DS needs a major operation, possibly emergency admissions to hospital, etc. SS could well be worried how OP will manage if she is saying it’s IMPOSSIBLE for her and her DP to organise this between them (plus the arguments and not living together may indicate that communication between them is not the best). Maybe SS expect her partner to sort compassionate leave as you suggest or change his working hours or somehow (as hard as it is) come up with a better arrangement.
If SS are saying they are concerned that a parent is not at the hospital all the time then OP would be wise to do whatever it takes to try and make sure this happens.

Bare in mind though that OP stated there has only been 2 days where she couldnt go. Talking in past tense, too.
Just the way people are talking its as if there are many days.
Considering circumstances for OP -i dont think missing 2 days is bad.
They dont live together so should not be treated as such. So if OP partner cannot make it, thar should not reflect on OP and her position of caring for baby at home.

I hope you get a better understanding of their concerns.

hanna I think that might be the problem and what people mean by not coping, in that there are usually avenues available to support parents with other children so even if parents are encouraged to go home, maybe they usually expect a bit more contact from the OP?

I think a lot of you have to remember that he has been in the hospital for 2 months now. My partner took 3 weeks off in the beginning and we both stayed in the hospital accommodation whilst he was in London but he can not afford to take any more time off. My mum looked after my daughter during that time and had to take a lot of time off of work. She can no longer afford to do that either so now I HAVE to split my time between the 2 of them I don’t have any other option. I don’t think they are concerned I won’t be able to cope when I take him home as most of the nurses and doctors at our local understand the situation and agree it will be easier for me once he is discharged and I don’t have to split my time between 2 children in 2 different places. I understand the situation as much as I can do from what I have been told, I can’t do much more than that. We have had meetings and to be honest they havnt helped in the slightest. All they have told me is what I have said in these posts, hence why I find the situation difficult to understand. I just wanted some advice on how to go about the situation, and how to help it from someone who has been in this situation or knows about things like this. If I had known I would have got so much negitivity I wouldn’t have bothered as this is a difficult time already and it didn’t need to be made any more difficult. I have another meeting with the safeguarding nurse at this hospital tomorrow and I’m hoping I can clear a few things up with her and make a plan to get him home. I don’t think I have done anything wrong or raised alarm bells about my ability to care for him, I just wanted some more support in a certain difficult time but I should have just struggled in silence as it seems they don’t want to help, instead they just want to try and take my child away over unrealistic circumstances. They have evwb tried to turn me and my partner against each other by delaying information that isn’t true. They also asked me if my daughter has ever been to A and E for an injury and I stated the only time she has ever gone to A and E was on Boxing Day last year when my mum took her to see some family whilst I was visiting other family. She ran into a chair and cut her head and my mum took her to A and E. This is the only injury she has ever had and it wasn’t actually when shshe was with me. Their answer to me telling them this was “so what you’re saying is your mum isn’t capable of looking after your other child?” In no way was I saying she wasn’t capable! They have twisted everything that has been said and to be honest I’m scared! I’m scared I’m going to lose my children when all I have ever done is try my best to look after them well and keep them safe and happy. The system is awful and I hate to say ot but our NHS isn’t too great either. I feel the system has failed me and my children in so many ways and I am terrified, hence why I made this post to try and get som advice and how to make it easier and get my son home