Keeping my son in hospital against my will

[TaashenMartian]

My son was born at 34 weeks on the 14th October with a heart condition. For the duration of his life (2 months) we have been in different hospitals. He is now stable enough to go home until his operation but because me and my sons dad had an argument in the hospital social services are involved and they won’t let us take him home. I have another child (a3 year old) who is still in my care and they have no plans to take her away. I want to know if they can legally keep my son in hospital due to safeguarding issues If my daughter is still in my care? Can I legally self discharge him if he is well enough to go home even though social services are involved? They have no reason to take my children from me as all it was was an argument, hence why my daughter is still in my care. But they are refusing to discharge my son until the case is resolved. Can they legally do this? What rights do I have? I feel if there are real safeguarding issues and my son can not be in my care then surely my daughter can’t either? Any advice would be much appreciated. This is incredibly stressful and I just want my son home for Christmas

People would be very unwise to comment on this thread other than to state that the OP needs to seek professional input here.

There is more to the story because SS don't simply become involved because a nurse on the ward believes that if couples loved each other they would never argue and reported her as a result.

This is OP's first post under this name, so either she has changed her name so as to not be linked to a back story which might shed more light, or she has joined MN explicitly for the purposes of gaining sympathy for her situation even though she hasn't sought legal advice in weeks.

Either way, the only concern here should be for a vulnerable child who is deemed to be at risk.

How do you know all of the nurses think he should be discharged?

Did you ask them?

Perhaps they felt as if they couldn't tell the truth?

Also nurses don't decide about discharges, doctors do.

I think discharging yourself as an adult, and discharging a baby/child against professional( Dr, or in your case, SS, or whatever) maybe a totally different matter. Either get the solicitor or convince them he is safe and well enough.

Thats where i dont understand it curryforbreakfast - because they do have review meetings and for it to have gone as far as it has, it surely cannot be just down to a SW not agreeing that couples argue.
That statement from the SW would need to have a team agreement before it could pass. Yet it seems to have passed.

All his feeds, nappy changes, everything he needs.
This is basic care though and if you’re not there to do this, I’m guessing SS would expect his dad to be there rather than leave him on his own.

I’ve actually have many problems with my daughters dad and other family members with trying to get her looked after so I can stay at the hospital, but I have done it. I have co-operated with them no end

Is this part of the problem though that you are unable to organise care?
Do ss feel that you are just organising care in order to co-operate with them rather than you want to be with your son 24 hours a day.

Are they perhaps worried how you are going to manage long term with 2 children if you are struggling to manage for 2 months.

I’m not having a go, just trying to give you possibilities of how it may look from an outside point of view.

When your DS next goes in for his big operation, are they worried you will leave him on his own as it’s ‘impossible’ for one of you to be there 24 hours a day.

Honestly, I do understand having a child go through a major operation and other DC (been there) but there is nothing on this earth that would make me leave them in hospital alone. I’m not trying to make you feel bad but you feel to leave him for 2 days is ‘reasonable’, they may see it differently.

As I said curry, parents do minimise but sometimes the procedures and supervision fail too. There have been famous cases to prove it to anyone with eyes.

Which takes us back to the beginning. Whichever it is (and it could be either for all we know) OP should be talking to a solicitor rather than us.

Ask to speak to a paediatrician and ask the paediatrician directly if your child is medically fit for discharge. If paediatrician confirms that they are (you may want to ask for this to be written in the notes), ask to speak to social worker or social worker's manager and explain you feel your child is being unnecessarily kept in hospital due to social care issues rather than medical ones. Ask to make an agreement/plan in writing with social care regarding what will keep your baby safe when they come home. You need to know exactly what professionals are worried about so you can work out how you can reduce the risks. This organisation www.frg.org.uk is very helpful for people in your position.

Btw reading between the lines of what you have said it is clear that the problem lies with your baby's father. What is he doing to help this situation - could he get some compassionate leave from work to help sort this out? Has he been aggressive to staff as well as you?

That statement from the SW would need to have a team agreement before it could pass. Yet it seems to have passed

Because whatever the team agreed on, it was not that couples must never argue and you can't talk a baby home if you do. Surely we all can see that?

As I said curry, parents do minimise but sometimes the procedures and supervision fail too. There have been famous cases to prove it to anyone with eyes

Of course they do, but that still doesn't mean individual SW can and do keep babies in hospital on the basis of a reported arguement.

If the drs feel the child can go home they will discharge it, unless they have proper intervention from social services to not do so. That will be formal and in writing and OP would get copies of documentation. If there is no formal intervention from SS, OP can take the child home.

Im wondering why your son's father hasnt been staying with your son on the days you were not able to be there, even if it was to give you a breather - is this what you were arguing about? How many days/hours care has he done?
Its hard having a sick child, bloody hard when they are in hospital - my daughter was in for 6 weeks last year - 2 weeks locally and a month in London. She was 16 so didnt need AS much 24 hr care, however once she went to London I stayed with her and my son had to come to the hospital, and they liased with his school so he could attend the hospital school.
Do they think you dont have the support system at home? Do they think your partner is just going to leave you to it, to look after your daughter and a sick baby, single handedly?
Also there is no way I would be taking a baby off visiting people - he is due an operation and is building up to be strong enough to it, he doesnt need to be exposed to different environments and potential winter bugs - if he caught something pre-op it could seriously put him, and the operation at risk

Thats interesting as we have been told by the hospital that they are listening to the social worker. They don’t agree with her and want to discharge him but they can’t until she gives the go ahead to discharge him. They have said there are no other concerns and everyone they have spoken to has gone in my favour that I am a good parent.

He actually caught RSV at the hospital, hence the hospital wanting him discharged ASAP now he is well enough

That isn't how it works. Dr's don't keep children in hospital on the verbal say so of a SW.

They believe he will be exposed to less being out of the hospital as he is on a children’s ward, not SCBU or NICU. THey have no issues with us taking him to visit family

Of course they do, but that still doesn't mean individual SW can and do keep babies in hospital on the basis of a reported arguement.

IF it's a snafu (and I'm only insisting that it's a possibility that shouldn't be ruled out) such a snafu could be caused by something pedestrian such as that everybody's caseload is at breaking point and it's been allowed to slide and not properly assessed to timeframe because the baby wasn't medically fit for discharge yet anyway.

All his feeds, nappy changes, everything he needs.

This is basic care though and if you’re not there to do this, I’m guessing SS would expect his dad to be there rather than leave him on his own.

tbh I would expect the nurses and hpc to do the basic care of their patient, regardless of age, in the hospital.

no legal advice I'm afraid, hope everything ends well for your family, op.

Well as long as your relatives get to see your do regardless of the fact that he will have to travel then I suppose it is fine.

Jesus wept

tbh I would expect the nurses and hpc to do the basic care of their patient, regardless of age, in the hospital

Not on a childrens ward. There aren't nearly enough nurses to do that, parents are expected to do it.

Some of the responses on here are crazy.

I can't believe that people cannot understand how it's difficult to be at a hospital 24 hours a day when you also have other children (who's other parent isn't available to look after them)

If i had another baby id find it difficult to be at a hospital 24 hours a day 7 days a week because of my first child and I have a dp who I live with!

And I'm sorry but op has said there is a chance her baby won't make it through his op - why is it so difficult to understand that she might want her family to meet him before the operation.

Jesus stop pulling the poor woman apart.

You might know all about how social services work but unless you know the op personally and the social worker and the nurse that reported it, you witnessed the argument and you've met ops other child then stop assuming that op is not telling the whole truth. You've no basis to assume that at all.

We have every basis, and its not an assumption.

Of course it's an assumption. It's a "not in the spirit" stonking great assumption.

It is an assumption! Unless you personally know op and have been present at the hospital it is an assumption.

I know it’s really hard with a baby in hospital, especially when you have older DC but if you have the option for one of you to be there with him 24hours a day I can’t imagine not doing this

I am puzzled by this. When my dd was born she was in an intermediate care unit for a couple of days. I was still in hospital myself and went back and forth to breastfeed her but I never actually met any other parent there in all that time.

The logistics of totally abandoning an older child to look after a poorly one in hospital for months on end but be a nightmare.

"You might know all about how social services work but unless you know the op personally and the social worker and the nurse that reported it, you witnessed the argument and you've met ops other child then stop assuming that op is not telling the whole truth. You've no basis to assume that at all." in the same way that there is no basis to assume that she is telling the truth, based on the fact she is purely a name on a screen here and that generally, it is not the norm for SS to simply become involved because a nurse thinks that couples who love each other shouldn't argue.

As for saying the OP shouldn't be able to be at the hospital 24/7, wel, if you have a child then you are responsible for that child 24/7 regardless of whether that child is in hospital or at home. If the OP has not been there for days at a time then there could be genuine concern that the OP hasn't bonded with the baby. It's quite normal for fathers to not be able to get the time off work and to have to work esp if they are the breadwinner

If i wanted my relatives to meet my baby in this situation then they could come to him.

The OP has said that they have other commitments, so they don't appear to want to put themselves out very much.