Keeping my son in hospital against my will

[TaashenMartian]

My son was born at 34 weeks on the 14th October with a heart condition. For the duration of his life (2 months) we have been in different hospitals. He is now stable enough to go home until his operation but because me and my sons dad had an argument in the hospital social services are involved and they won’t let us take him home. I have another child (a3 year old) who is still in my care and they have no plans to take her away. I want to know if they can legally keep my son in hospital due to safeguarding issues If my daughter is still in my care? Can I legally self discharge him if he is well enough to go home even though social services are involved? They have no reason to take my children from me as all it was was an argument, hence why my daughter is still in my care. But they are refusing to discharge my son until the case is resolved. Can they legally do this? What rights do I have? I feel if there are real safeguarding issues and my son can not be in my care then surely my daughter can’t either? Any advice would be much appreciated. This is incredibly stressful and I just want my son home for Christmas

glittery go back and read the thread rather than just wading in at the end

persian - yes, wildly speculate...

Maybe posters could just take things on face value sometimes rather than making up some alternative scenario.

Can I just say that a nurse, whom the hospital later admitted had had inadequate safeguarding and MH training reported us to social services. My teenager left the hospital that night because I am articulate and insisted on assessment and explanation. Three days later I received a call from the first individual I have ever come across - the duty social worker. I made formal complaints to the hospital, the CCG, my MP and the L.A.. All apologised. All have introduced new procedures and bolstered training.

It is most certainly not always parents who are in the wrong all the time. Some of these people are very very poor and do not have the intellect, the training, or the judgement to make decisions.

The op needs to request a full copy of notes, raise a formal complaint and engage a solicitor.

Not first, rudest. And he was so hopeless when I asked what support he was offering he couldn't articulate it. He also addressed me as Sparkles. Not Mrs Sparkles, not raindrops. But Sparkles. As in Smith or Brown.

Some of these types are so beyond reproach It's mind blowing.

Its been known on mn for posters to misrepresent their situations

Yes and calling the distressed mother of a very sick baby a liar helps her how?

Another poster who understands, thanks for that info Raindrops. I hope OP has seen your post. What always amazes me is that these "professionals" cannot see that in causing the parent such unnecessary anxiety, this then affects the baby/child. In this case, it is so important for OP to remain strong for her baby's sake, and she has a little girl at home. These individuals (and I know they're not all like this) can cause untold damage to children. My own dd (now adult) is receiving therapy now, she just can't seem to get past it what they did. At one point they kept her and her sibling apart for a full year, even though sibling's psych was saying it was vital that they had contact. They obtained care order for one (with reports of so many lies, it was impossible to counter them all) and let one child remain at home! Go figure?

Yes Coyoacan, I'm hoping OP has gone to "heartlines" suggested by a pp and hopefully getting more support there.

If its untrue and unfounded SS will be the first to say so, since signing off on it and getting that case of their desk so they can attend to the other 30 that are screaming for attention is the best outcome for them.
There is nothing in it for SW to carry on with cases that don't need them. It doesn't make any sense to do so, for anyone.

^^ What CurryWorst says. There is indeed pressure on social workers to close cases so they're not going to keep open cases that they don't need to - unless it's been given to a student social worker on placement who may work more slowly, or it's not been closed as it's not an especially complex case and can be kept ticking along as the child isn't in danger of significant harm, or there's more to it than we currently know.

Second guessing serves no purpose really. Can OP ask the social worker what would help to get her baby home? What would satisfy SS that the child would be safe? It may be that the family be referred to Early Help - and this might even alleviate some of the stress as they can help facilitate access to other resources. Work with the social worker, not against. Your own parenting is possibly being assessed, your own ability to cope and your compliance in recognising potential risks to the baby if the main caregiver (you) goes under. Sorry if you've mentioned this already, but is there family who can function as a 'protective' factor? Anyone who could give you a break and look after the baby if tensions re-emerged between you and your ex partner?

I feel for you OP. It must be a very difficult situation.

So picknmix, why hasn't any of what curryworst and you have said been explained to the op. Working together surely requires mutual channels of communication.

Thankyou for all the helpful comments I will update when I know more

This was three days ago. Unfortunately the prolonged silence won't help OP on here.

Deepan, I'm hoping OP has gone to "heartlines" as a pp feels she will receive more support there. I wouldn't come back here with all the ridiculous, blaming comments if I was OP.

This was three days ago. Unfortunately the prolonged silence won't help OP on here.

Help her on here? I think we can safely assume that she's more worried about RL than this bitchfest.

So far, there has been Schlimbesserung, Killerfairy, Marmitemadmummy, RaindropsAndSparkles, myself Bubbaleo and I think Battleax who all have personal reasons to believe what OP said is highly possible/ likely. We can't all be wrong.

Some reading here for those who think the system always works perfectly;

library.nspcc.org.uk/HeritageScripts/Hapi.dll/search2?&LabelText=Case%20review&searchterm=*&Fields=@&Media=SCR&Bool=AND&_ga=2.31434367.1904405328.1513863178-1335620852.1513863178

Try again.

www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/case-reviews/

Piknmix, OP's "ability to cope" and "potential risks to the baby" if she "goes under"? I think she's more than proved her ability to cope and if she does go under, it will be their fault, causing unnecessary, upsetting stress. Incidentally, these questions should then be asked of all parents attending hospital, particularly single parents, shouldn't it?

And me. Some ss workers are vicious, vindictive shits.

And add yippyyappy to my list.

Battleax, thanks for that link. Looks interesting, am just about to start reading

Add me to the list - i have had an encounter with a SW who was clearly twisting things.
She came to my door one morning and told me my ex partner had answered my home phone. (If i allowed ex partner into my home id lose my children as he was so violent).
He wasnt there. I had done nothing but thank SS for giving me that ultimatum as i was trapped. Yet she did that...for what reason i do not know. She also tried using a fork that had fallen onto my floor and kicked under the fire (could only be seen at a certain angle) as a danger. Which fair enough, she has a point but it was somwthing that was so easy to happen and did not reflect on my parenting ability as she tried to claim.
Anyway she lost her job shortly after. I can only assume she was a bitter woman. The SW after her was absolutely lovely.
The mean ones do exist though

Some reading here for those who think the system always works perfectly

Who would that be then? No-one here has said that the system works perfectly.
Far from it, the system is underfunded, undervalued, underesourced and under greats strain.
But individual SW'ers still can't do anything alone, and they have entire times and multi agency liasons to achieve anything at all. This "a mean SW ruined my life" business is always a total misrepresentation.

I still have to agree with curry on that. Even though i had those issues with that SW - she couldnt do what she wanted to do as her views alone were not enough.
If they were, id of lost my kids as i dont think she liked me personally, nor do i believe i lived up to her standards as a parent.

This "a mean SW ruined my life" business is always a total misrepresentation.

Maybe, but there's no reason that anybody should find it incredible that cock ups happen.

I didn't think anyone would be surprised that cock ups happen. Or that you get the odd professional in any line of work who is unpleasant or incompetent, it would be odd if this didn't happen. In addition social care is massively underfunded and creaking at the seams. A perfect system it is not.

However it isn't a system that runs on the say of one person and social workers have no powers to either take children away from parents or insist they stay in hospital against parental consent. All these decisions are made in a court with a variety of professionals including those representing parents being heard.

Of course there are cock ups but it’s quite rare that SS do cock up and when they do it’s usually because they have missed something not that they have over reacted. I’m sure thoughs who have expereance SS being involved will understand that SS need more to go on than just the hospital reporting the parents having an argument, they usually need more to go on to then refuse to discharge a child from hospital into parents care. There’s a huge shortage of foster homes and SS will only remove a child if there’s no other choice, they then need a court order to do so and a lot of evidence that the child is at risk, they would never remove a child due to the parents having one small argument. So there must be a lot more going on.

Anyway, posting here now is probably wasting our time as OP is obviously not going to come back to update (probably because there’s so much more to this).