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Ex's contact with children

131 replies

saoirse17 · 14/04/2017 12:47

My ex has apparently sent in an application to court regarding his contact with the children. I don't know more than that he's sent me an email saying this.

We did have parenting plan that we both signed after the separation but the children really don't want to see their dad for all that time and I can't force them to do anything against their wishes. Which has resulted in him losing out on some of the time that was in that plan.

Every time he sees the children they always seem to have a fight and they're always upset both before and after he's seen them. I really don't think it's in their best interest.

He has also had a new child, the children don't want to see her, or his new partner. So far he made them see the new partner once, 2 years ago, which was a horrible experience for the children. Can he make them see the partner and new child?

Would the court make the children see him if they say they don't want to?

He wants to make out I'm stopping it but I've never stopped anything. It's totally their own opinions. And I won't force them.

Anyone that can give me any guidance?

OP posts:
WannaBe · 17/04/2017 12:45

"that's what I've said all along, they really don't want to see him after all he's done with breaking up the whole family." OP it seems clear that even you believe your own poison which you've been feeding to your children. The reality here is that a five and seven year old are not still going to be carrying bitterness about a divorce two years on. It doesn't matter who you try to convince, it's simply not true. Children are resilient. Marriages break up all the time and rightly or wrongly in a large number of cases those marriages break up because of the involvement of a third party. And those children move on with the relationships, they form relationships with new partners, even OW/OM, with siblings, and for those children, life goes on.

If you continue this you will end up with teenagers who will resent the fact that you did everything in your power to turn them against their father and prevent them from having a relationship with their sibling.

Through your own behaviour towards them and the fact you have manipulated them as much as you have it must be clear to you how easily they adapt to new situations and accept what they are told. Therefore you must surely be able to see that if you kept your own opinions out of this situation they would form a relationship with their stepmother and their sibling.

As for saying the father would have to move if contact was changed, that's not your call to make. there are non resident parents who are awarded a minimum of eOW contact even if they live six hours away, and in those cases the parents have to share the travel to facilitate the contact.

The alternative is that family alienation could be proven and the father would be awarded permanent residency and you'd be the one scrabbling for the occasional weekend and the odd week during the holidays. That's assuming they can ever get over the bitterness they will feel towards you for breaking up their family.

Be careful what you wish for OP. You want your children to be bitter about the breakdown of your marriage. You want them to be angry about it. If you keep this up they just might do that. Except their anger and bitterness might not fall where you think you've directed it.

CrazedZombie · 17/04/2017 12:45

OP- even parents on drugs get supervised access. The kids will be naturally reluctant to go and leave you. You have to pretend that you're going to be doing boring stuff like cleaning while they are away and say if they stay, they help or something. My kids were reluctant to visit ex in the light of our breakup. They worried about being disloyal if they went so needed to be told that mum and dad's problems are between them and they are helping the healing process by going on set days. I'm not at home sad about being alone (this was a fear) and it makes me happy if they have 2 parents who adore them and make them happy. Obviously no one loves them more than me 😂but there's lots of love for them from dad and that can only be a good thing.

You have to correct them if they say stuff like he broke up the family. He broke up with you and has to live away as part of that process. You have less money and might have to work different hours or whatever but that's adult problems not kid ones. He wants to see the kids. He might have been a scumbag husband but he's trying to be a good father. He might have been lousy father when you were together but it's possible for him to get better. My ex is a much better father now than when we were together. He's totally Disney and never supervises homework but he cooks, cleans and does a little of the drudge like take the kids to haircuts. That's better than nothing. Don't forget that if you die or become ill, they'd have to live with him. Unless he's abusive you need to suck things up and keep that door open for their sakes.

toastyarmadillo · 17/04/2017 13:01

I agree with the others, you have a very real risk of a judge feeling your alienating the nr parent, and quite frankly you are. I imagine you would feel very different if the dc lived with him, no doubt you would expect them to be actively encouraged to see you, even after the emotional abuse you have subjected them to. Your abusing your children emotionally. Your ex left YOU not them! You haven't given a single valid reason to stop or reduce contact, in fact it's probably in there best interests to spend more time with him, getting to know him and there sibling without your toxic influence.

JanetBrown2015 · 17/04/2017 13:06

I think people underestimate the views of older children however and the court by the way will not force the 14 year old to see the father or are unlikely to and if they do they cannot make it stick. I have never alienated my children from their father. He did that by his conduct towards them.

Younger children are different and just like we can force a 4 year old to go to school we can certainly pick up a kicking and screaming 4 year old and manhandle it into the father's car.

I don't agree that children don't nkow why a marriage breaks up unless th emother spills the beans. often they see the father's conduct. No one needed to explain it to my lot - they saw how their father was every day. They also now see that he doesn't much choose to see them, never has them to stay, doesn't do birthdays and pays for nothing - his loss, his choice. In sense that is a lot easier for me as there is no battle with him over contact and in fact if he had wanted the younger ones half the time I would have agreed as he is not dangerous to them and I work full time so we had the ridiculous positon that I had all 5 all summer and I could take one week off full time work and pay for care for the other weeks of school holiday and he had 7 or 8 weeks off (teacher, private school) and did not have them for even one night.

holidaychocs · 17/04/2017 13:15

Something that may be likely to happen is that the court rules that more time is spent with the dad 50:50 in some cases. Its done so that the children regain familiarity with their dad once again. If he is now in a stable relationship with a partner and new family the judge would even consider making that the children's permanent residency.

It is about what's best for the children.

danTDM · 17/04/2017 13:32

Sorry, haven't read TFFT but I totally understand OP.

I am not divorced, but me and H live apart. DD has always been encouraged by me to see H.
She is now 9 and, quite simply, does not want to see him, unless I facilitate it and invite him round for a 'family' lunch.

The reason is because he is, without doubt, a difficult person and does not particularly want to do anything that disrupts his life/routine, with DD. Unless she fits in with him.

He is happy to see her here, with me, she him. Everything is totally amicable.

The typical 'you are projecting' responses? Sometimes, it really is simple. They don't want to spend prolonged time with a parent.

School agree with me, by the way. Say DD is completely well adjusted and happy as she has her main carer (me) and it is all nice and stable, as it were.

I encourage her to see H, but I do not force it now.

danTDM · 17/04/2017 13:34

Janetbrown.
I agree with you 100%

Ilovetea13 · 17/04/2017 13:42

Hi Saoirse17 In a way I do understand where your coming from your partner left it probably has really upset your children and unsettled them. This happened to me when I was 7 my mum and dad split and shortly after he got with another woman who already had 2 children. I stayed every other weekend and I really hated it I felt uncomfortable n i just wanted my mum or my dad on his own I remember crying to my mum to not make me go. My mum knew the importance of seeing my dad n i continued to go. Once the children are there there probably absolutely fine it's the initial thought of going sometimes. Try n make it exciting for them, a adventure, a short holiday even, build it up and make it fun.Im 30 now and I have a fab relationship with my step mum and I respect my mum so much for making me keep contact with my dad. Now I have my own child and in this situation I'd be heartbroken sending my little girl to stay with another woman and her baby but it's just one of them things in life that have to be done. I know I'd have to, start gradually until they get a comfortable relationship with her n the baby. She will never replace you u are there mum she's just a additional person who is there. I think your children may grow up resenting you if they don't get to see there dad so just start slow n build it up, maybe once every fortnight n go from there. I honestly can understand you want to protect your children. Id sit down n talk to them explain he's always going to love them n wants to be in there lives and ask them to make a effort for your sake. Hopefully you can avoid court x

Ilovetea13 · 17/04/2017 15:39

Just want to add I know a man who is in his 40s now. When he was younger his dad got with another woman n left the family home. His mum stopped him having any form of contact with his Dad n fed him with a lot of nasty stories about his dad(I know your not stopping contact so this is a extreme case) anyway when he was a teenager the dad tried getting in touch with my friend n my friend didn't want to know due to all the stories he had been told ect. Fast forward to 10 years ago my friend found his dad, began a relationship with him n now absolutely detests n hates his mum for keeping him away from his dad n barely has anything to do with her. Just don't want your children to grow up n think our mum stopped us seeing our dad. I know you have tried n it must be distressing for you to see your children in a state but keep trying as I said in my previous post I was at the other end of this when I was 7 if you percivere they might actually start enjoying seeing there dad again. You sound like a great mum who wants to do the best by her children but keep trying n then you may be able to avoid court stay amicable. I'd start by telling your ex your going to do everything in your power to rebuild his relationship with the kids.

WannaBe · 17/04/2017 15:41

danTDM the difference though is that you still encourage a relationship between your DD and her father. It is very clear here that the OP does not, and that she just accepts that her children don't want to see him or his partner or even to meet their new sibling. And the fact that she was an OW is going to make a difference to how the OP reacts, of course it is.

My DS was incredibly unhappy when his dad told him that his DP was pregnant. Also the fact that she moved in already pregnant and with her own DD who is with her full-time was a huge change and disruption to DS, and to be fair he has spent much less time there since. At fourteen I of course cannot make him go, and I never would. But it's still important that he have a relationship with his father, because even at fourteen it would be incredibly easy to let a relationship slide once you've not seen someone for a week, then a month, then six, then a year and so it potentially continues. And at fourteen a child still isn't mature enough to realise that cutting a parent off at fourteen means potentially losing a relationship with them into adulthood.

And what of the baby? Whatever anyone's feelings towards the parents in these situations, there are often children in the equation who didn't ask to be in the situation either. And who, as they grow up, will learn that they have siblings who want nothing to do with them specifically. Whatever your feelings are towards the adults, no child deserves to grow up in that kind of relationship. If someone posted here that their children didn't want to know their half siblings and would rather they didn't come to stay, no-one would be supportive of keeping the other kids away. In the same way no parent should support a child's desire not to meet their sibling. Not ever.

My eXH wasted no time in telling my DS that he'd always wanted another baby but that he'd tried for one with me but that we'd not been able to have one. No mention of the fact that it was him with the low sperm count, just the fact that he'd wanted another child. And yes, that stung a bit given we tried for six years for another baby and he seemingly managed to get his GF pregnant with an unplanned one (given the length of their relationship etc I don't think it was planned but obviously can't say for sure). And yet I have encouraged the relationship between DS and his sibling all the way. From telling him that he wouldn't really know how he might feel until the baby was born, how the way he felt while eXH's DP was pregnant didn't need to carry forward once the baby was born because feelings change. And they have.And I have taken an interest in his sibling. He was born with a genetic condition and has required surgery, and have encouraged DS to show interest, not that he doesn't, but he's a teenager and teenagers are not communicators as a rule.

It would have been so so much easier for me to agree with every reason why DS didn't want to stay at his dad's, or to simply nod and let him stay here with no dialogue as to the why's and wherefore's. But the reality here is that eXH is my ex. The fact here is that we loved each other enough once to have DS, and that still has to count for something.

As DS grows up he will form his own opinions of his father, they may be good, they may not, I suppose it will depends on a number of things. But whatever happens, his decisions are his to make, not mine to facilitate.

RedDahlia · 17/04/2017 16:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JanetBrown2015 · 17/04/2017 16:50

I would love to foist all 5 on him for half the time and force him to do half their washing, pay for half their childcare (when they were younger - 2 don't live at home any more) but they didn't want it and he didn't want it. People assume all these absent fathers would love more time or the children would love it. My children didn't want more of him and have been very happy without it because of how he treated them when he was home.

I encourage contact but you can't force it on fathers or on teenagers. Iv'e sent his parents photos of the children over the years. I've paid expensive train fares for them to visit his parents hundreds of miles away and I even fixed up a big and expensive family lunch out last year so he saw all the children once that year (he seems the younger two for a couple of hours evry few months) - all at my expense. No one thanks me and no one (him) offers to pay but I do it because it's morally right.

Anyone on the outside probably thinks I've prevented the contact whereas I've been chomping at the bit to have him take them 50% of the time as I work full time and keep us all financially!

Those of you in happy marriages cannot imaging how awful some of these fathers are and how much children can be delighted when the mother divorces them. My older children lobbied me to get rid of their father asking me to divorce him.

QuiteLikely5 · 17/04/2017 17:01

Children aged as young as yours do not suddenly turn against their father because he leaves.

Do you think it is right that a young child can dislike someone so much after only one meeting?

I understand your pain and anguish but here you have caused more damage to your children all in an attempt to spite your ex.

They will realise that one day.

All you are doing is festering on bitter, negative emotions and transferring them to your children - it is not their battle to fight - there is no battle - let go - he did something awful, but the longer you look back the harder your life is going to be.

Sad but true.

Divorce doest harm children - it's the parental behaviour during it that does

MooseBeTimeForSnow · 17/04/2017 17:10

It's "the wishes and feelings of the child concerned, in light of their age and understanding"

Did your ex not suggest Mediation? Some mediators are qualified to speak to children. Or did you refuse to participate?

If you can't agree, the Court is likely to order a report where the children will be interviewed. It's not uncommon for children to be influenced by a parent who is hostile to the idea of contact and that will be set out in the report.

saoirse17 · 17/04/2017 18:44

@MooseBeTimeForSnow he did make me go to mediation, but we only went twice. That woman who was a mediatior was so clearly on his side, and they're meant to be objective so there was really no point in going back anymore.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 17/04/2017 19:41

Of course she was.

The CAFCASS officer will probably turn out to be a stupid glorified social worker who puts words in your children's mouths and won't believe a thing you say.

If your kids' dad gets a lawyer, s/he will be a bully who is just egging your kids' dad on for the money.

The Judge will be a stupid old man who hates women, or a career-driven bitch who either never had kids, or if she did, packed them off to childcare so how can she understand.

No one but you sees clearly, where your kids are concerned. Isn't that right, OP?

QuiteLikely5 · 17/04/2017 19:41

Yes she was on his side because she wanted what was best for the children going forward.

If you go to court you are going to be found right out.

Parker231 · 17/04/2017 19:43

I think it's highly unlikely that the mediator was biased. She was just doing her job.

Mombie2016 · 17/04/2017 19:54

My youngests Dad is an absolute deadbeat. Cleared off when I was pregnant. Hasn't seen him. Hasn't paid a penny. I tried mediation he never showed up. ExH is a selfish horrible bastard who has abandoned the child we planned together. He's an alcoholic and recreational drug user (all hidden from me until we married and I was pregnant Sad ) He's a liar and an abuser.

Will I tell DS that though? Nope. Why? Because for better or for worse my DS shares 50% of his DNA with him. And I don't want my child growing up with a chip on his shoulder that I put there.

It's quite simple, really. I love my DS more than I hate my ExH and believe me I fucking despise the man.

Why are you so willing to damage your children to spite your ex? Why? Is hurting him more important than your children's wellbeing?

I hope you get read the riot act and I hope the Judge sees the parental alienation and that you do not get away with this.

The father of my eldest two DCs left me for another woman who he then introduced to them immediately. I hated it but I gritted my teeth because I wanted them to continue to be close to their Dad. Which they are.

None of my DCs have ever heard me say a bad word about their fathers and they never will.

NabobsFromNobHill · 17/04/2017 20:05

That woman who was a mediatior was so clearly on his side, and they're meant to be objective so there was really no point in going back anymore

She was objective, she just clearly saw what you were up to, same as everyone here does. It couldn't be more obvious. Any judge will see it too in a heartbeat.

Mombie2016 · 17/04/2017 20:09

Also, my Mum pulled this shit with my Dad. Result? I moved out of hers and in with him at 16 and I haven't spoken to the cow for 14 years. And even after all the vile shit she did to him, including repeatedly breaking court orders, meaning from the ages of 9-14 I didn't see him at all, my Dad still tried to coax me into seeing her and into building bridges. Didn't work, but by God he tried. And she didn't deserve it.

RedDahlia · 17/04/2017 20:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyWhoLikesLunch · 18/04/2017 22:11

I wouldn't normally post on something like this but wannabe said about if anything happened to you actually did happen to my best friend. At 14years old she came home from a weekend with her gps and found her mum dead. Not only did she need to cope with her mothers death but she had to move in with her dad who for the last 6 years her mum had slagged off and discouraged contact to her whim but she had to life with his girlfriend who heels mum had told her ruined her life. Almost 15 years later my friends memories of her mother are mainly about bitter she was and she's in counselling to deal with it all.

phoenixtherabbit · 18/04/2017 22:22

I think the children are still very angry with him for leaving. As well as also feeling they are replaced by this new child. Plus the things they have experienced during the divorce.*

Op, I'm sorry but it sounds a lot like your children are feeling what you're telling them to.

It sounds like you are very hurt and angry by what happened, and whilst that is entirely understandable, you cannot impose this anger and hate on your children.

I believe they're too young to make decisions about whether they see their dad, to be honest. I have seen far too many relationships between kids and parents break down because one parent or both is a little too vocal about what happened in their divorce around their kids.

Sorry but when you say you can't help what they over hear? Bollocks. Course you can.

I absolutely DESPISE my dps ex. Hate her. Wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire, but if you ask my ss? He wouldn't have a clue. He wouldn't know how I feel about her because I strictly do not speak about her negatively in front of him, neither does my dp. I have even defended her to my ss numerous times when he has lashed out about her. She has tried to ruin my life numerous times and she continues to try it, but I won't say a bad word about her to him or in his company because she's still his mother. Maybe you should employ this tactic about your ex?

It sounds a lot like you've said too much to them and they're not going because they don't want you to be upset.

You should be encouraging a relationship with their half sibling. How would you feel if you had another child and they didn't want to know?

Stop putting your own feelings before your kids.

CouldntMakeThisShitUp · 19/04/2017 00:10

He has applied to the CMS and they've said he gets the nil rate. I'm not sure how he got away with that

Errr....that would be because they've assessed his income/living costs/new baby etc - and based their decision according to guidelines set in law.

I'm wondering why you think you should still be getting spousal maintenance considering your dc are in full time school - which means you can get paid employment?

i can understand why you still feel bitter but that isn't going to help you.
He's their dad and is pursuing regular contact with them - which costs money - so him living in a 1 bed place right now is probably all he can afford.

If it had been the other way round and you had the affair, moved out and he had residency - would you think it was acceptable for him to take the same attitude you have re contact with dc?