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Legal matters

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Ex's contact with children

131 replies

saoirse17 · 14/04/2017 12:47

My ex has apparently sent in an application to court regarding his contact with the children. I don't know more than that he's sent me an email saying this.

We did have parenting plan that we both signed after the separation but the children really don't want to see their dad for all that time and I can't force them to do anything against their wishes. Which has resulted in him losing out on some of the time that was in that plan.

Every time he sees the children they always seem to have a fight and they're always upset both before and after he's seen them. I really don't think it's in their best interest.

He has also had a new child, the children don't want to see her, or his new partner. So far he made them see the new partner once, 2 years ago, which was a horrible experience for the children. Can he make them see the partner and new child?

Would the court make the children see him if they say they don't want to?

He wants to make out I'm stopping it but I've never stopped anything. It's totally their own opinions. And I won't force them.

Anyone that can give me any guidance?

OP posts:
Temporaryanonymity · 15/04/2017 13:12

my sons are around the same age as yours. They had sporadic contact with their father which upset us all. It was so hard to watch. I worked very hard to make contact as easy as possible for him; to the point where I would leave him in my new home with our sons for the day.

A few years on we have built it to regular contact and it has made a real difference to their lives. Lots of people told me not to push it but I knew it would be better for our sons to have him in their lives.

They have half siblings too and whilst I don't particularly like having their pictures around the house, I have put up framed pictures of their father, stepmother and siblings. OK, only in their bedrooms but they are their family too.

Don't get my wrong, i was bloody angry with their father. My sons probably would have been easily manipulated into not wanting to see him too. I couldnt have done that to them. It is my job to do what is right for them and my sons needed a father.

It gets easier. I actually quite like his new wife. It helps to frame things positively but I do ring one friend it i feel like a whinge. I would never speak negatively to my sons about their other family.

FV45 · 15/04/2017 13:19

OP my ex wanted shared care, but he came across as having mainly his interests rather than our son's in court and so I was granted resident parent. I didn't ask for that, they were very clear about it though. A judge will very, very easily be able to see if parents are working together (albeit via solicitors or whatever) for the sake of the children.

When my DS says he doesn't wasn't to see his dad I listen to him, try and reassure him etc but NEVER let him for a second think he is any part of the decision - he's 8 and it's not a responsibility he should have.

I have a mental post it note that says "put DS first". It makes it black and white and stops my judgement being clouded by the years of abuse and the hate I feel towards ex. I don't always succeed in my own head but to the DSs I really do try.

Meanwhile DS1 rarely sees his dad - they'll make their own minds up when they are older.

NabobsFromNobHill · 15/04/2017 20:17

I've seen a few of you hinting that I would get 'flamed' in court? What does that mean? What happens in a court case like this? What can they do?

If he accuses you of parental alienation (where one parent deliberately causes the children to be alienated from the other parent, to the detriment of the children and their relationship with the other parent), that is taken very seriously by the courts. I have seen it result in custody for the non resident parent before.

RandomMess · 15/04/2017 20:28

It's an opportunity for you to teach your DC about forgiveness and learning that parents make mistakes/poor decisions but you can still love them and have a relationship with them.

Your role was to very strongly encourage them to spend time with their father despite their feelings!

It would be far better if you start making the contact happen now and save you all the stress and cost of going through the courts to have the AGREED plan implemented.

Marmalade85 · 15/04/2017 20:44

I know it's tough OP but the courts take parental alienation very seriously. If the court has ordered contact then you have to abide by it unless the children are at risk of harm.

Do you want your children to see their father?

saoirse17 · 15/04/2017 23:25

@Marmalade85 I personally don't have any problems with them seeing him, I just dint want to force them to do something they don't want.

OP posts:
notapizzaeater · 15/04/2017 23:34

But as a parent sometimes we have to make our kids do things that they aren't happy with

twattymctwatterson · 15/04/2017 23:37

What you've done to your children here is actually so awful it's abuse in itself. You have involved very young children (the youngest being say 5 at the time) in the breakdown of your marriage and seen to it that they take your side. Your attitude towards your DCs sibling who is only a baby is the reason why they are so angry. Honestly you are appalling.

dailymailarecunts · 15/04/2017 23:42

Sometimes being the parent is about forcing your kids to do what they don't want though. Ds doesn't want to brush his teeth - i force him. It's my job as parent to see the bigger picture.

I have been in your shoes, ds dad left when I was pregnant for the OW, but I have fought for their relationship because I truly think it's in ds best interests. He deserves 2 parents who adore him, or at the very least, he deserves me to have tried to have given him the best shot at that.

Your children need you to protect them, don't let them hear you bad mouthing their dad, tell them you know they are going to have an amazing time at his house and how you bet their half sister can't wait to see them. They need you to be their constant, and to let them know it's okay with you. Don't make them try and protect you.

I honestly do know how hard it is, but for the sake of your kids try and see the bigger picture. There are no winners if their relationship breaks down with their dad.

MrsBertBibby · 16/04/2017 01:17

OP, that is a textbook alienating parent response. I'm a family lawyer, and you are pretty transparent.

You haven't given one convincing reason for your children writing off their dad.

SpareASquare · 16/04/2017 01:34

And this could happen just from him filing the application for child arrangements?
No, this could happen because of your pretty poor actions.

I personally don't have any problems with them seeing him, I just dint want to force them to do something they don't want
This actually made me laugh. You are SO transparent OP. You do realise that YOUR actions/inactions have harmed your children right? No? Well, they have. You may not see that now but when faced with doing what is best for your children, you went with what was best for you. Rarely ends well

thebakerwithboobs · 16/04/2017 11:27

I feel compelled to start a crowdfunding page. For your ex husband.

WannaBe · 16/04/2017 15:00

OP, so you say that you don't want to make your children do anything they don't want. Presumably they never have baths then? Or brush their teeth? Or go to bed when it's time? Or go to school after the holidays? Or tidy their bedrooms? The list goes on. But the point is clear, if you don't want to make them things they don't want to do, then that has to apply in every aspect of their lives. So if they were to e.g. Go to Granny's for the weekend and decide they don't want to come home, then presumably you would just shrug and accept this fact and allow them to live there until such times as they may want to come home? Presumably when your fourteen year old starts going out for parties with his mates you won't expect him to come home or let you know where he is, with whom and what he's doing? No didn't think so.

As for you stating that the seven year old is still very angry over the divorce.... that is utter bullshit. If the seven year old is angry over something which happened when he was five, then that is because you have been feeding him your anger for the past two years. Children are far more resilient and accepting than adults are. You may not want to hear it but reality is that children generally don't care about the reasons for the divorce at such a young age unless there is serious abuse or violence in the equation which it appears was not the case here.

Now, it is absolutely possible that a child may not like an incoming partner, and the reality here is that they have every right not to. But at seven and nine they are not old enough to understand the implications of refusing to have relationships with their father and their siblings. They're certainly not old enough to make life changing decisions based on the dislike of someone because their mother doesn't like her. And even at fourteen, while the child is old enough to be able to make their own decisions, they still should be given an awareness of the potential implications of those decisions, because fourteen year olds are volatile impulsive creatures who make decisions in the heat of the moment without considering the consequences until it's too late.

I have a fourteen year old who tbh hasn't taken to his dad's partner, and as such hasn't stayed at his dad's for the weekend for just over a year now. He does go there for some evenings during the week though.

We have had endless conversations over the why's and wherefores. He is old enough to make his own decisions on that score, however I certainly couldn't argue that I was doing what's in his best interests if I just sat back and let him do whatever he wanted. It would be the easiest thing in the world for me to just smile and accept that he was here permanently now and to forget that he has a father who is half of him in the same way I am. But who would that benefit in the long-term? Certainly not him. And when he gets older and realises that his half sibling has grown up and he hasn't noticed and they have no relationship, he certainly won't be able to look back and say that nobody warned him that that might happen.

He has stalled about going to his dad's for the past four years or so now. But it's only been in the last year where he has been allowed to decide for himself that he doesn't want to stay at his dad's for the weekend. And if he's committed to going there for any reason then he's bloody well expected to stick to it. And if he doesn't want to go then he's expected to communicate that himself.

My ex is my ex, not his. Iyswim.

And there is one other factor which needs to be considered. Their father is their next of kin. If anything happened to you then they would go to live with him permanently. If you have actively destroyed the relationship between them they would find this much harder, adding to the loss of their mother. I was taken seriously ill towards the end of last year, and my DS suddenly had to start spending every week night at his dad's while I was in hospital and for a few weeks after I came home and was recovering. I know he found it hard, not because he didn't want to go, but because he was dealing with my illness (we're talking about having spent time on life support seriousness of illness) as well as staying at his dad's which wasn't the norm for him. If I had died (and it was a real possibility) it would have been so much harder for him if I'd spent the past four years destroying his relationship with his father and he suddenly had to go and live there on a permanent basis.

Things still aren't perfect between him and his dad, and the reasons are his own which he is entitled to. But at least he has never been encouraged to distance himself, and my ex knows that.

We bring children up to think independently for themselves. Not so that they will mirror our thoughts and become automatons who will do as asked when asked. Remember that if you encourage that attitude then if the tide turns you will be powerless to do anything about it since it's something you have actively made happen.

Trethew · 16/04/2017 17:49

Wannabe agree entirely, very well put

JustMumNowNotMe · 16/04/2017 18:19

I agree, excellently put wannabe.

OP, you need to stop projecting your hatred of your ex onto his children, it's not okay and will be massively frowned upon in court!

DD1 is almost 10 and over the years has frequently said she doesn't want to go to her dad's for the weekend . As much as I'd like to just say ok then and keep her home, it's important that she has a relationship with him so as her parent I encourage her to go every time. You should be doing the same.

You say yourself he is not abusive or a danger to them, so stop punishing both them and him and do what needs to be done.

MycatsaPirate · 16/04/2017 19:43

My DP's DD hasn't been here for nearly 2 years now.

His ex says that she doesn't want to come here, since she was 11. His ex has made on effort to try and get her to come here and his DD will not even speak to him on the phone. Dp has been told it's because of me and my dc living with him (not OW, we got together two years after his ex left him) and despite the fact that his ex moved on first, I am the devil incarnate in exes eyes. This has been passed onto the DD who has been told she was only to come and see her dad not 'that woman and her kids'.

It's been endless drip feeding to the dd. She too knows all the ins and outs of their divorce down to how much money I had in the bank when their divorce was finalised. I was fucking fuming. Not only should a 10 year old not be party to the nitty gritty of a divorce, there is no way her mum should have been telling her what I owned/had and what I spent my money on. She even told her DD how much my engagement ring cost, how much I spent on my DD's school uniform. This all came back to 'you don't spend that much on me'.

So yes, you are totally destroying any relationship your dc could have with their dad. They should never have had any information about the divorce. A simple, dad has left as mum and dad aren't happy together anymore but dad still loves you and nothing will change except where he lives. You could easily have helped them forge a bond with the new partner, you could have been excited and happy for a new sibling for them but you have chosen to project your views on them and I truly hope that your ex is successful in court.

ElsieMc · 17/04/2017 09:24

Some posters on here are being very harsh op, but the legal advice you have received is absolutely correct as hard as it is to bear.

You wont believe me now, but time will move on and matters will settle down and your sadness and bitterness will recede.

If your ex takes the matter to court, he will probably get eow and midweek contact not the minimal contact he has now. If finances are an issue for him (which it seems they are) he can use this to reduce child support for the children. He cannot just decide to reduce payments and you must go to the CMS to ensure regular payments for your children.

Whilst you are criticised here for not putting your childrens' interests first, he is also clearly struggling with this concept as they have a right to financial support from their father.

The court will also tell you that the children have a right to a relationship with their new half sibling. My gs has a new half sibling who all the boys absolutely adore and he is gorgeous.

Your reasons for reducing contact will not wash with the courts. My gs (who resides with me) has eow with his dad who is violent and his last conviction was for gbh. My concerns were on this basis. His contact has moved from supervised, unsupervised and back. After my initial panning by the original Judge, uncertainty crept in after his probation officer raised concerns about his escalating violence in a report to the court.

My gs is fourteen and has wanted to reduce contact for some time. I was unaware his views could be taken into account, but I have gone with the flow and encouraged him. Sadly he says that when he is 16 he does not want to see his dad because he has found contact long and lonely alongside the fact he feels he has no input into his own life.

saoirse17 · 17/04/2017 11:01

If he's going to get more contact than what's in the original parenting plan he would have to move. He lives far from us now. And he's also just got a 1 bedroom rental flat. I can't see that any judge would make kids go and live there.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 17/04/2017 11:15

With tax credits and maintenance from you I'm sure he could afford a bigger home.

JanetBrown2015 · 17/04/2017 11:41

Why not suggest to him that he can collect them and take them then? That way he deal with physically manhandling a huge great 14 year old in to his car! He can also get to see the extent to which they don't want to see this marriage breaker father and he has to travel to collect them.

There was a case where a court ordered teenage boys to be with the father and they just kept running away to be with their mother so everyone had to agree in the end that despite the court order as they were older teenagers effectively it was their choice so certainly for your 14 year old their will will prevail.

I wiould love my ex to have the children 50% of the time or even one night a year ( work full time and he also pays nothing) but he refuses .

NabobsFromNobHill · 17/04/2017 11:55

Some posters on here are being very harsh op

Not as harsh as OP has been to her children.

saoirse17 · 17/04/2017 12:04

@JanetBrown2015 that's what I've said all along, they really don't want to see him after all he's done with breaking up the whole family.

OP posts:
dailymailarecunts · 17/04/2017 12:19

But if you had handled it properly in a grown up manner, your children would have been protected from him 'breaking up the whole family' because you wouldn't have made them privy to every detail!

It's your bloody job as their mother to protect your children and fight for what is right for them even if you hate every second of it, and you are failing at that. It might be harsh, but by god it's true. And I'm coming from a position that my ex left me when I was pregnant for the other woman and denied he had a child till ds was 6 months old, so believe me I know how hard it is.

We are all pretty much saying the same thing, the courts are saying the same thing, why on earth can't you see this? Think I'm bowing out now, your children deserve better than this and you burying your head in the sand is beyond frustrating.

Mombie2016 · 17/04/2017 12:24

How do YOU behave when they've seen their father? You seem the sort to get hysterical and project on them before and after and it's your behaviour they are reacting to.

Parker231 · 17/04/2017 12:32

The breaking up of the marriage is just that, the ending of your marriage. It's not the end of the relationship between a father and his children - that should continue for the rest of their lifes. Hopefully a judge will award proper time for the DC's to spend with their DF and his family.