Prohibited steps order hearing

[CustardCream1]

I have been asked to attend a court hearing as my ex wants a prohibited steps order to prevent me moving 150 miles away, and in fact to prevent me from moving out of the area at all. I got the letter about this today and the hearing is on Tuesday which is hardly any time to prepare. I am really confused and finding it hard to deal with as I'm so upset over it all. Does anyone if I can oppose the prohibited steps order? I've been told that Cafcass will have to do background checks on us both which could take around two months. I am meant to be moving house at the end of August and if I am prevented from moving, I will be homeless as I have already given notice on my current house and I would lose the house I was due to move into. I also have been asked to provide a report from my GP on my mental health (I raised my concerns about my ex's mental health and his ongoing emotional abuse towards me and I guess he wants to get back at me). I am going to try to find a solicitor tomorrow, but in the meantime, can anyone advise me? I am sick with worry. Thank you.

OP it's important that you are completely honest with your solicitor today - you have avoided saying here how much contact your DD currently has, but you'll need to make sure your solicitor has the full picture. Similarly with the circumstances regarding registering your DDs birth. While you may perceive him to have bullied you because he said he would go to court to secure PR, that's not bullying on its own, it would be seen as the actions of a committed father. But if you have emails or texts that threaten you with violence, or are abusive, if you didn't do what he asked, then that is significant.

I'm sorry I need to leave the thread. I appreciate all the help but I also need to gentle morale support as I am at rock bottom and find some of the comments harsh and patronising such as 'your solicitor is not a counsellor ' I have been in tears over some of the things you have wriiten. It's as though I'm doing a terrible thing. Please think about what you say to someone in crisis because what you right can seriously affect them.

Good luck today.

I didn't read the comment regarding solicitor not being a counsellor as nasty, I read it as they cost you a lot of money, if you go in with facts then you will get more from them in terms of advice.

I read it the same way. Someone once said to me to think of it this way - a counsellor charges £35-50 an hour, a solicitor is more like £200 an hour. It's absolutely reasonable to need to talk things over but important to choose the right person!

Who are you moving to be closer to? Perhaps give them a call. If they're willing to be your support network in person, I'm sure they'll be your support network over the phone too.

I hope it goes well with your solicitor today.

OP I am going through the family court with my exh at the moment and it is stressful.
I hope that you get the result that you want, as to me it sounds best for your daughter. Good luck.

Hi There
The PSO will be an emergency provision to prevent you taking the child away. It does not mean you cannot move away in the future but you will need to obtain consent from your ex and if he does not agree you can make an application to the court. Is this something you can agree in mediation to avoid court proceedings? I am a solicitor and happy to have a no charge chat if you are still without a lawyer - I can only imagine how upsetting this will be. Best wishes R

Dear Roz44, I have sent you a PM.

MrTCakes thank you for your kind words of support. I wasn't going to come back to this thread but I did and your message really helped me. I am so sorry you are going through this too. I really hope everything works out for you very quickly

Good luck today, Custard.

Yes. Good luck today, Custard.

Hope it went ok.

Hi Custard. Are you able to tell us how it went ? I know there are a few people on MN going through the same and your experience would be so valuable. ( if you are up to it )

Hi Marilyn, we tried to some to an agreement before the hearing, but we couldn't agree sadly. We went before the judge and had to each state our case (well I stated mine and my ex's solicitor stated his, as I didn't have legal representation). It was all incredibly formal. We had to address the judge as 'Sir' (for a female she is 'Madam') and the judge was austere and scary. It was agreed that as my ex and I couldn't agree, it would go to a final or contested hearing, where the judge would make the decision on where my daughter and I can live and on contact arrangements for child and Dad. The judge said at the end, that it would be better if we could agree matters ourselves through family mediation rather than go to a final hearing, as it's far better for parents can decide on arrangements for a child rather than a judge who may impose something that is unfavourable to one party. My ex, despite him standing firm all along on not allowing us to move, has finally said he is prepared to CONSIDER letting us move and said he would attend family mediation. If we can come to an arrangement through family mediation, then they will draw up the notes for a child arrangements order, this then goes to my ex's solicitor to draw up the agreement, which then goes to the court to approve. I am told the minimum time for all this is around 10 days, but could be longer. I can't legally move next week so I have had to cancel the removals, inform the letting agency, but I have agreed to pay deposit on new house, so I don't lose it. I know I will lose the deposit if all this does end up going to a contested hearing and I am told I can't move, but at the moment I have some hope that we can resolve through family situation. I think the system is quite simply awful. It is oppressive, lengthy, ridicuously overly bureaucratic, unfriendly, cold and very very stressful.

Thank you to all those who offered me messages of support yesterday.

To anyone else going through this, you have my full sympathy as I know how tough and painful it is.

Oh Custard I was hoping for a better result for you. I too am going to a final hearing in September and it is awful having strangers make decisions for my child when they have never even met him. Court is scary isn't it - I felt like crying when I sat in there for the first time.
If you ever want to talk send me a PM!x

Mr t cakes im so sorry you are going through this too. Court is so scary. The thought of strangers making decisions on my child is unbearable. Unfortunately my ex has now back tracked and says he needs more time to decide whether he will attend mediation. He refuses to talk to me and will only text very occasionally and even then his messages barely tell me anything and are totally vague and passive agressive. He keeps telling me to leave him alone and give him space. I imagine he loves the control he has over me and the anguish it's causing and will drag it out as long as he possibly can. I believe his dad is paying his legal bills so he is in a much stronger position than I am who can't afford it. I'm so worried that if it goes to final hearing and my ex gets what he wants, how long I will be prevented from moving. My ex is pushing for 3 years at least which is like a life sentence to me even though my ex reckons it is no time at all and is adamant its in the best interests of our child telling me that 'im not concerned if it makes you unhappy to stay. It isnt about your happiness or mine its only about our daughters happiness '' but in 3 years time he will have an even stronger case for stopping us move. It will destroy me being forced to live in an area against my will, which I hate and where I can only afford a bed sit or house share. The thought of being kept here another month is so hard let alone several more years. I don't know how I will cope as I am suffering from quite bad depression already. I think my ex would be happy if I had a total break down and could no longer care for our child so he had full custody. Thank you for the offer to talk that is really kind please pm me too if you need to tslk.

The only thing now that might persuade my ex to go down the family mediation route is, if it goes to final hearing we have both been asked to provide medical reports on our mental health and whether we have received treatment for alcohol addiction. My ex has a long history of alcohol abuse and last year attended a program for alcohol adduction and was prescribed medication to control his addiction. This isn't really going to support his case although who knows may be the fact he got help and he may say he is cured could go in his favour.

Custard

You are showing strength and courage. I can only encourage you to continue to work cooperatively with CAFCASS. Court sounds frightening as it has the power to make decisions about your DD's living arrangements; however, judges are people too and the "Sir"/"Madam" bit is theatre and tradition. The power that the courts have to make decisions is due to the legal system in this country and not due to the judge's personality.

In terms of support in your understanding of the legal system, I know other posters have spoke with Coram in the past. They may be able to help you with support about the legal process.

If your and your ex's MH histories do get taken into consideration, this is because the courts are deciding what is in the best interest of your DD, not as an attempt to punish either you or your ex for their previous MH difficulties. I do think that pushing for supervised contact could be in the best interest of your DD. I also do not know how far in advance contact arrangements can be agreed - perhaps other posters know - but the idea that you can be prevented from living where you would like to for years, and that that decision can be made now, does not sound right to me.

Thanks for updating Custard, I know a lot of people will find your experience valuable. Do not be disheartened though.
We went through a 'leave to remove' case last year when DH'ex wanted to remove the children she lives with. (Two of theirs live with me and DH and the two younger with her )
Her case was for permission to move abroad to a VERY distant country - not a nearby European one. DH is a very engaged and committed father. Has spent ten years in the family courts enforcing contact, has NEVER missed contact unless ex had deliberately withheld them against court orders.
Eldest made choice to move and live with us as soon as courts agreed they were old enough for that decision.

Despite all this her application was supported by CAFCASS, and Skype/school holidays were considered enough contact for a father who sees he children EVERY other weekend and once in the week . No drink, no drugs, but ex had taken Dcs on holiday to home of their new step father and sold it to them as next to heaven on earth. They were promised the world if they agreed to go.
It was recommended by CAFCASS because ' the children wanted to go and not to go would have rendered the children's main carer so psychologically distressed she would not be able to parent them effectively.'

She was moving to a country with no extended family, to live with a man that neither she or her children had ever lived with full time as he worked abroad. It was only refused because she could not find suitable schools . The Judge made that a condition along with every holiday back to UK at her expense.
I tell you this to show you it isn't always as bad as you think. If my engaged and loving DH can be faced with losing his Dcs on the grounds of mothers psychological upset alone, then I think you have a very excellent chance of getting what you want.
The big plus points are the additional support you will receive in the new area and the ability for you to afford a decent place to live. If he doesn't pay maintenance you can also slip that in indirectly with something like 'as ex doesn't pay maintenance I am funding all Dcs costs so cheaper area is essential ' - solicitor will be able to advise. Or if you are self representing then call Coram children's advice centre, we self represented and they were fab.
Chin up love. Engage with CAFCASS jump through hoops, do not say negative things about ex that you cannot evidence - (but absolutely shout them from roof tops if you can) and you will get there.

It won't look good if he refuses to go to mediation.

I worry about you making financial commitments (deposit etc) when your ex is the type to prevaricate and mess you around and delay.

It'd be good to get support with your mental health, since you're under so much stress.

If you are made to stay that'll be awful but you will need to get through it for your DC and seek help to improve things where you are. But it's also possible that you will be able to move: for now the main focus is compiling a strong case and taking care of yourself.

Hi thank you all for your continued support. Marilyn that sounds incredibly hard on your dh. I'm sorry to be so brief but I'm the middle of cooking dinner. I just had a question. My ex told me last night he has secretly been recording our conversations on his mobile and will use it in court against me. Can he do this? Thank you.

Wow he's charmer isn't he!

I doubt it! His lawyer would advise against it am sure.

For now to reduce the stress and antics like yhat could you just communicate in writing (other than mediation, if he agrees)

Recordings can be used but are sometimes frowned upon and some judges may not let them use them.

What is he hoping the recordings will prove?

FWIW, based on your post after the hearing, it sounds like his barrister has told him quite firmly to come to an arrangement with you. If he messes about with mediation then that will go against him. I would be surprised if you weren't eventually given permission to move.

How much contact is your ex asking for?