Having a 3rd child and a career

[FolkSongSweet]

Does anyone have 3 (or more!) children with both parents working full time?

I’m a city lawyer and aiming for partnership in the next 3-5 years (I’m 7pqe and partnership takes longer in my practice area). My kids are 4 and 18 months (2.5 yr gap) and I’m 35. I want another child, ideally in a year or so to have another 2.5 year gap but I’m worried that I will totally screw myself over career wise, and even if I didn’t, it might not be possible to cope with 3 kids and such a full on job. DH also works full time in a stressful job but is self employed and at the moment tends to do 5 days a week but including a weekend day so that he can have the kids 1 day per week. We have a nanny the other 4 days. No family nearby.

Id love to “have it all” but wonder if it’s just not possible at this crunch point of career+fertility.

Look, if you want another child you will make it work. It will be hard. You will have to sacrifice things - either time with children or delaying partnership, plus other things, you'll have to spend money on help etc - but think about what matters in the long run. On your death bed - what will you care about?

I have three. Both of us work full time with demanding careers. It's tricky juggling it all sometimes especially as we have no family near for any emergencies. Otherwise we manage with a combination of some wfh, nursery, after school clubs. I tend to catch up on emails and work after the children are in bed.

How good is your nanny? The only people I've known it work for have had a great one and one of them was divorced, the other had a husband in the military so they basically had them in the other parent role. Both barristers.

Thanks. Yes - am well-versed in the night time working. Atm I am usually able to log off 6-8 to do bedtime with the kids and will then work 8-12 or whatever is needed (sometimes it’s less if I can start early). I’ve also got a fair amount of flexibility during the day so I can pick DC1 up from preschool on my wfh days and take him for a babyccino instead of a lunch break etc, and we start quite late so I see them in the mornings from 6-8.30 or 9.

But I think DC1 could do with more of me and DC2 still cries when I leave her in the morning. I really want a 3rd for myself but wondering if it’s selfish to force DC1 and 2 to share my already limited time with them with someone else.

@Isonthecase she is great but possibly not in it for the long term as she is from the EU and her DH (who is English) is apparently keen to move to her home country 😭

I see why you're struggling with the decision. How do you think you'll cope once the older one is at school? I'd suggest leaving a little while to decide to see how things develop.

DC1 starts school in sept though he’s been doing school hours at preschool this year - will it be very different?!

If we do go for a third I didn’t want the gap to be too big because of my age and so there isn’t too big a spread oldest to youngest. I guess if we leave it another 6-9 months then DC1 might be 5.5-6 and DC2 3-3.5 which isn’t so bad but still bigger than I’d like. I’d be 36.

How you do rate your chances of making partnership?

I have 4 and gave up my career after #4

• 2 senior (female) partners told me it was "career suicide" to have a 3rd. But it was having the 4th that finished me - I just was doing everything badly by then, and realised it wasn't the life I wanted...

I actually found the preschool years the (relatively) easy bit, esp with a good nanny. The preteen/teenage years are far harder. They need you and your emotional support and presence more IMO, and I'm so glad I have been able to be available to them by being home at the beginning and end of their school days by working PT around them. But I appreciate that wouldn't be ideal for many.

I guess if you want a third and have good support, then you can and will make it work for you.

I have 3, my third has additional needs. Between caring for ds and supporting elderly relatives I had to give up my career. Ds is amazing and I love him so much, I now have a very part time job.

OP I am probably in a similar firm with a few more PQE, I’ve not pushed for any sort of promotion as I feel I’m only just coping with the job at the moment after no 2. We don’t have a nanny and that would probably help BUT there is a lot that only parents can do - homework / emotional support etc. Increasingly I feel more and more torn and that I just need to spend more time with them that I can’t when I’m working. Thinking of giving up altogether which I never thought I would! For me, if I had the money to have a nanny, put 3rd through private school and also not work then I would have a third without question but it’s not possible for us. Our 2 are fortunate to be privately educated which is important for us and to have a 3rd would mean a big lifestyle change and no way I think I could work due to the juggle - the mental load currently is hard and I don’t think I could as to it personally - that’s just me though. But I know people that do and make it work - they have a lot of childcare support - for me my family would always be number 1 and I took a step back in my career a long time ago and am mentally on the way out rather than the way up! Everyone is different and if you have a real urge to have a third child then do it. Does partnership really matter? Like really? I think you would regret not having a 3rd child far more than not making partner in the long run. I would like the title and to know I’ve done it but there’s always plenty of time to try and get back on track when kids are older - if you still want it then.

I recently had my 3rd at 38. I would say if I were pushing for partnership we would have to throw more money at life than we do- More ready meals,
cleaner hours, a gardener etc. I’m not entirely sure I could make partner (in professional services not law) in these small children years, maybe if yours sleep better than mine! I was partner track but I’ve actually moved to industry which is definitely easier. Our gap is 3y and nearly 4 so it’s been a bit more spread out which facilitated being able to chalK up a few successes at work in between each.

Are your dc in school OP? I'm not in law but was in finance. I happily worked a ft heavy going job until dc started school. I had a nanny and dc went to private school. Education is very important to me but turns out not so important to our nanny!!
I realised for my dc sake if I didn't get myself involved my dc would fall behind at school. Things quickly spiralled from there and my career is pretty much over years down the line but my dc do very well!

I would do at least one year at school first before having another dc if you can because there's more to factor in than simply time and money which massively complicates things imo. Some people do manage though and often you need a golden nanny who will help with the school work as well as the childcare or tutors but depends on if you're happy with this route.

In my opinion, I think a third tips the balance towards not being able to have it all. I have 2 and while there are times when I wish we had gone for the third, most days I'm very happy with the balance.

Kids need you more as they got older and being able to have the mental and emotional energy to help them is important.

I have 3, am the main earner with a professional career. My career hasn't suffered at all and was recently made Partner but I couldn't take any longer than the enhanced maternity leave that was full / half paid which at my work was only 16 weeks so only had 20 weeks off. Babies were sort of planned around predictable quieter periods in workload (twins were lockdown babies) Sometimes you have to make sacrifices - if you want a 3rd then you'd likely have to give up the year off.

I have three, bad sleepers, no nanny and minor health issues. I've failed to have it all. Youngest is 20 months and I've decided to take a redundancy funded sabbatical. I'm hoping to pick up a career again later, and am focusing on professional development.

I'm a bit sad to have to give it up (for now) but ultimately a career would feel empty if I'd pursued it at the expense of the family I want.

The baby/toddler stage is a doddle compared to the school years. There’s always something you’re being invited to at school. Trying to fit that in with one is bad enough, I can’t imagine finding the time in the working week to get to school things for 3.

Evenings get worse as they get older too. I struggle to log back on before 9pm most days now. The days of getting home at 6.30pm and starting work again at 7.30pm are long gone for me and that really impact how much I can get done.

We have 3, no nanny or family support. It’s definitely doable, but obvs not easy. Things we thought about at the time or with hindsight:

• if your 3rd has additional needs, how much will it tip you over as a family, in terms of time available to older children and professional ambitions? How ‘ok’ would you (honestly) be if that scenario happened?
• there will be no me time. Every waking minute will be spent on children or work for the foreseeable future - it won’t be forever, but it will feel like it
• your kids will miss out (though they probably won’t realise it, but you will) on time with you, proper quality time, and possibly activities / experiences because you just haven’t got the bandwidth
• if you want to be reasonably hands on (going to nativity plays, star of the week assemblies etc, or even taking care of them when they’re sick and they only want Mummy), you may be the only one doing such things visibly at work. Depending on the culture, that can feel challenging
• you will almost certainly be exhausted, mentally and physically, for such a long period of time you barely feel like you’re functioning. And then it will start to get better in tiny increments!

I haven’t listed the positives - there are loads and it was absolutely the right call for us. But the above outlines my reality.

I have 3 but I work part time, and decided that I just couldn't work full time and keep everything going. It might be different if you have a bigger income and can spend on more cleaning hours, home help etc. I agree when they start school it becomes harder, homework, reading, inset days, school holidays, constant stream of birthday parties. There's always something to remember like dress up as a pirate or a school trip. There's also a higher chance one will be ill and need to be off school or something. Plus when they are older bedtime creeps further back. Not saying it's not possible if you really want it but just need to consider that things become more of a juggle with 3 especially as they get older. I wouldn't change it but I do think that 2 was a much neater and easier package.

I'm a psychologist and have had a number of clients with three kids who work ft and it does seem to tip the balance. Parents (mum) are burnt out and there simply isn't enough time in the day to give each child the attention they really need. It's not a moral judgement against working parents but it is a reality. Many of my clients decided to give up work or work a lot less to be there for their kids. Agree with the PPs saying what about the possibility of the new child having extra needs?

I have 4 and the most incredible nanny since the second arrived. She’s like a third parent/adult in our home. Now that they are at school she is more nanny/housekeeper. She’s made it all work for us this last 7 yrs. DH works extremely long hrs (law) but I pretty much do 9-5, though my work is demanding and tiring and I’m very serious about my career. We both work from home so see a lot of the kids. Nanny just makes sure life is very organised and the time we have with the kids is not spent doing housework.

we’re very lucky to have her but my point is, an excellent nanny has meant we can have it all.

If you can afford to have a nanny then you could make it work. But personally I wouldn't. The more children you have the more you have to work to support them and the less quality time you spend with them.

My friends have three, both worked full time in jobs that entailed some travel snd evening hours. Well paid but not lawyer level.
They had a live in nanny until youngest at school, then had her part time after that. I think the part time was difficult as the nanny needed more hours than part time, especially once she moved out and had to start paying rent. Not sure how they resolved it - I know the wife eventually went freelance so she had more control over her hours. No family support as none lived nearby and all had full time jobs too.
Doable, but you'll have to pay for the childcare (snd be ok with your child asking for the nanny rather than you on occasion).

I know several families with 3 or 4 children and FT, career ambitious parents.

It only works because a LOT is delegated.

They all have a FT nanny (even once all DC are in school) and several have a second nanny who takes over from the first in the evening until one parent gets home.

The nanny does school drop off, pick up, food shopping, cleaning. Takes DC to medical appointments. Buys clothes for DC. Takes them to parties. Buys the presents for their friends. Does their homework with them. Looks after them when they're ill and not in school. Sorts out costumes for them.

Also does all the washing, ironing and cooking for the family.

I even know one nanny who takes them by train to the grandparents for the school holidays....

And inevitably the DC are extremely attached to said nanny and when little would look to nanny more than their mum.

My current CEO takes her nanny on holiday with her so she knows she can have some blocks of hours to work whilst the children (she has 3) are taken care of.

It works if you have a reliable, star-class nanny. Who is extremely organised and devoted to the kids.

You also need kids who sleep. I had 2 terrible sleepers (later diagnosed with ADHD) who put a stop to all thoughts of a career and a 3rd child. (No regrets though)

Oh and my DC are 10 and 8. They definitely need me a lot more now than when younger. My 8 year old was up in floods of tears until 10pm the night before last because of a difficulty at school. DH is currently away so there was only me. No way I could have carried on working at home until 10.30pm.

Also in 5 weeks they have had/will have 13 birthday parties between them. That means no downtime at all during the weekends as Im dropping off/picking up/looking after the other one. Not to mention all the presents to buy (non generic at this age - my boys know what they want to buy for their friends).