Having a 3rd child and a career

[FolkSongSweet]

Does anyone have 3 (or more!) children with both parents working full time?

I’m a city lawyer and aiming for partnership in the next 3-5 years (I’m 7pqe and partnership takes longer in my practice area). My kids are 4 and 18 months (2.5 yr gap) and I’m 35. I want another child, ideally in a year or so to have another 2.5 year gap but I’m worried that I will totally screw myself over career wise, and even if I didn’t, it might not be possible to cope with 3 kids and such a full on job. DH also works full time in a stressful job but is self employed and at the moment tends to do 5 days a week but including a weekend day so that he can have the kids 1 day per week. We have a nanny the other 4 days. No family nearby.

Id love to “have it all” but wonder if it’s just not possible at this crunch point of career+fertility.

I only have one DS so can't give insight into life with more children, but DH is a partner in a law firm and I'm a GC in house and it's not easy even with just one DC.

DS started reception this year and nursery was much much easier. The hours were consistent and longer. No long holidays. Less things to attend (all of which I've missed since DS started reception but luckily DH was in quiet periods so he could do them).

If I were to have more children (I won't) I would definitely need a full time nanny and more domestic support. I already feel bad about missing things and not being around/prioritising work. I can't imagine that 2-3 times over.

I do think it'll get better as DS gets older and is more self sufficient. It's just getting through the early years. Although then it's about being there for homework etc.

Also I think it really depends on your practice area. DH is transactional so has quieter periods. My company is very full on almost all of the time with some especially busy periods and I work across all time zones. Luckily it's rare for us both to be horrifically busy at the same time but when we are it's brutal. Also my experience of when you first enter the partnership (not me but peers/colleagues) is that you have a lot of extra stuff to do and it's as bad, if not worse, than when you're going for partnership! Obviously firm dependant as well.

I’m a litigator @JW13, so it is predictable to a degree around court timetables but depends how many things are going on at the same time/team size etc. Im sure you are absolutely right re workload increase on being made up.

DH is really the “default” parent as his job is more flexible than mine and part of me knows that if the sexes were reversed it would probably be a different story, but the fact is that the DC (DC1 in particular who is nearly 5) prefer and want me more. I’m not sure how much of that is because they see me (slightly) less than DH.

Hey, I am in partner with 2 DC at primary school. I would say it’s all a juggle (we kept our amazing nanny on). What I have found is that I have 3 pillars now, bring s mum, working and then the school/activity pillar. You have to dedicate a lot of time to all 3. Eg my son would be really upset if he didn’t have his cricket trousers for school. Also as they get older they are staying up later so that solids block of working post 8 is going down.

what makes you want a third? Its 100% no from me. The school work/childrens schedules etc is too much.

@FolkSongSweet I was a mainly contentious lawyer before I went in house but worked on quite a lot of things which required dropping things last minute and staying late. I thought in house would be better (and to an extent it is) but I think when you're in a senior role it's demanding wherever you are.

DS has had phases of preferring both DH and me but the last year or so he's definitely wanted me a lot and like you I do wonder if that's to do with me being around less.

I don't know what the answer is!

I have 3 (and it’s wonderful by the way!) and we both work FT.
Yes it’s possible - and possible also to have a great relationship with your kids.
You do need to be super-organised, you need to throw money at things (cleaners/nannies/amazing wraparound care) and make it work.
I don’t regret working FT for a second. They are not tiny for that long and there are so many years of being a good parent ahead.

I have 2 under 2 and a 5 year old. I work full time. It's not easy. I don't feel I spend quality time with the kids.

Most days I just want my old life of peace and no kids hanging off me wanting my individual attention.

I should get a regular cleaner - but really I need a housekeeper as others have said.... might be onto something there

I have 3 DC and am in a senior role (not law though). Was full time but just reduced to 80% which was as much health reasons as anything else. DH works full time also in fairly senior role, but his is more flexible than mine and is fully remote. We have no family support nearby but manage fine with nursery/wraparound childcare. DC are currently 6, 4 and 1 and the winter bug season is killer but my employer is pretty family friendly. We have a cleaner (and low standards) and live or die by our routine - we both have to pull our weight, no way I could do it with a half arsed partner without losing my mind. Three kids does feel like overkill sometimes but wouldn’t change it for the world.

Us both being career minded was one of the key factors as to why we didn't have a 3rd. It's a simple fact that having a third would have reduced the time the other 2 had with us and it just wasn't something I was willing to compromise on. It's easy to look at it in a short sighted way in terms of the physically demanding earlier years and believe that's temporary (but frankly it's easy to outsource at that time albeit expensive) but older children and teens really need your time. Whether that's to ferry them around their various activities or with homework and simple conversation. I knew I'd be letting my older 2 down having another child. My time is more valuable to them than an additional sibling. Not to mention the additional risk if they had additional needs, our youngest is only just getting diagnosed with ADHD now at 9 so his emotional needs have increased as he's or older.

So we really did centre the needs of our older 2 when making the decision, rather than our own.

@Bringonsummer19 I think part of it is that I always assumed I would have 3. DH and I are both one of 3 and we both loved it, and my siblings are unlikely to have kids so I want to give them a bigger family (which I also had with lots of cousins and loved). I have a child of each sex and part of me wants to disrupt the neatness of it - I love the idea of a gang. Also (and less logically) I don’t feel “done” - I was so lucky to conceive easily and have easy pregnancies and fantastic quick labours and I basically just want to do it again.

None of these are good reasons really but what reasons are ever good?

To clarify - I want to give my kids a bigger family (not my siblings, though I’m sure they’d like another niece or nephew!!)

I don't know how to phrase this where it doesn't sound confrontational but I was a lawyer in a big private practice before I went in house so I know how insanely hard you must work and I don't understand why you'd have a third child when realistically you'd have to outsource most of its care to someone else.

@Mistonthemountains i don’t mind confrontation. At the moment I do my insane hard work when the kids are asleep!

I genuinely don’t see them any less than my friends who work (full time) 9-5 because I log off every day at 5 and play with them, do baths and bedtime stories etc, then log back in at 8pm once they are asleep.

Also, as I’ve said on the thread, my husband has a more flexible job and works 4 days a week, so is with the kids more. If the sexes were reversed I don’t think anyone would ever ask why a man wanted another child in these circumstances. Did you go in house for more flexibility? What are your working hours like now?

That's amazing. I really didn't cope well with the pressures and the hours and the expectations but it may have been my firm. Plus I don't think I'm cut out for it!

My hours are much more reasonable now but obviously pay correspondingly much lower but I'm actually pregnant with my third and have decided to not go back after mat leave so that I can spend a bit more time with them/help the elder two settle into school. I'm nervous about it!

Ex City lawyer here and so glad I quit…..but this thread is about you not me.

couple of points to note:

-things get harder once kids start school. Long school holidays, even longer if you go private. Homework to help with. Constant things to do, like needing costumes, random projects they need to do, etc etc. Loads of things to attend eg sports day, harvest festival, nativity and our school loads of random meetings etc plus parents evenings. It’s so so much easier when they are in nursery.

I personally didn’t want to outsource this, I wanted to be present myself as much as possible.

• how much longer have you got in you working 8pm onwards into the night? I don’t know you and maybe you just love work, but I hit my mid-30s and just had this overwhelming sense that life was about so much more than work. I very much work to live & now have numerous hobbies I’m passionate about. You can really change as you hit 40+ in my opinion.

I really agree with @Allezallezallez2023 about reduced capacity as you get older. When I was in my 30s (I'm an academic and single parent of one, so nothing like as tough as I imagine your job is) I used to really hammer away at work - get up at 5am and do a couple of hours, go to work, do a few more hours at night. Now I'm in my late 40s I have neither the energy or the desire to do this. I also have really changed my life post-40, working part-time, spending more time on stuff outside of work. I've also found as other posters have said that the teenage years are very intense and that it's helpful to be available much more than I thought I'd nee to be.

None of my friends have primary school kids yet so I’m clueless, but do the majority of families really have either a SAHM parent or someone working part time so as to facilitate 3pm pick ups every day? Atm all my friends with kids use nurseries or nannies until 6pm, though some do 4 days a week so it’s not every day

At my child’s reception class there’s only one child in after school club 5 days per week until 6pm .Most people use a combination of working flexibly to allow 3pm or 4.30pm pick ups, grandparents and the odd day or two of after school club. There’s only a couple who are SAHMs .

@Allezallezallez2023 thanks. Yes, since I started the thread DC1 started school and although it’s only been 1 term so far I’ve had an insight into the extra workload! Have managed it all so far (without outsourcing, even to DH) but such early days and obviously will be 2x that with DC2.

id also say though that, depending when you left pp, there has been a huge shift in flexibility since covid. It is easy for me now to work from home on the day of the nativity play for example, put a meeting in my diary for the hour that it’s on and log back in after. That was unthinkable even when DC1 was born 4.5 years ago.

But I completely agree that it would be lovely to have some time for hobbies and the night working is exhausting! Maybe subconsciously I want dc3 as a way of justifying stepping back/changing direction. What do you do now out of interest?

I work in house in a quasi-legal role, so still use my skills and get paid well for what I do (nowhere near law firm partner money but enough to have a nice life, I’m not a materialistic person anyway).

Main thing is I work flexibly, so really I just have to work 4 days worth of hours over any given week, although obviously there are some times when I have to be online for specific meetings etc.

I absolutely adore having time to be around for DC, and I have a couple of sporting hobbies I’m pretty passionate about which have been a revelation for my mental & physical health and I’ve met so many great people.

For me “having it all” means the balance of time with DC plus time to enjoy myself (and working just enough to have a comfortable life) .

I’d personally never describe working 60 hour weeks for a law firm as having it all, but then we are all different.

I have 3 all in Primary school and the only way it worked for us was for me to start contracting so that I could work term time / part time. In a full time employed job after 2nd child I fought tooth and nail to get the same contract but with having to use so much unpaid leave it wasn't worth working. I know not every job/industry lends itself to contracting but it's an option

Second this!

Really interesting thread, OP, and enjoyed seeing the development (was on p2 before I realised when you’d started it). I have nothing constructive to add as we’re having the same dilemma. I’ve recently moved from professional services to an in-house role at a fund, so my hours (and pay!) are better but I’m also establishing myself in a new place - and also want to enjoy my new role and the opportunities it brings, rather than being pregnant/exhausted all over again! Really interesting to hear how draining older children are too, mine are under 5 so it’s a while away. School has been a shock to the system and my eldest has EIGHT weeks off in the summer. What do we do?? Maybe a third isn’t a good idea, for me.

Still undecided OP 😁

I'm a litigation lawyer with 3 kids, 6, 4 and 1. I never actually wanted 3, but the 3rd announced her immending arrival to my great surprise and that was that..!

I work part time - currently half the week, in an in-house role. It's demanding at times depending upon court deadlines etc but the atmosphere and ethos is relaxed and supportive of working parents - to me this makes a huge difference.

I possibly could work full time, certainly plenty of women at my work have done so in the last, but I have no desire to really. I feel so lucky to have the work/life balance others covet. I'm extremely lucky in that my salary, although decent enough (75k FTE, not in London) is not needed for survival, as DH has the Big Job and earns much more. This means I can work half time, and support the household the rest of the time. Throw in working from home some of the time and I really feel I have a great life.

I've let go of some of my dreams of firm-hopping, going to the bar, becoming a partner somewhere, even working in a swanky office that flies me around the world. Meh. Fine. I'll continue turning up, doing a good job for my clients 9-5 (give or take) having a laugh with my colleagues and being around the kids loads. It's working for me. I am busy but I've found some small pockets of time to get involved in school stuff, local charities etc. As of the beginning of this year I sit on the board of 3 charitable trusts. Things I wouldn't have been able to do if I worked full time.

Childcare is complicated but we're muddling through with a mix of childminder, mother's help and grandparents. We have a great network of babysitters we've built up over the past few years which helps with going out for the evening etc.

I hope you make peace with whatever decision you go for. It will be the right one for you. Good luck!

Apologies for typos and weird formatting! Typing from my phone...

I had my first child at 35, the next two at close to 37 and the last two at 38 and 2 months. After somewhat extended SMP I worked full time the entire time because I was the primary insurance holder. It can be done. It is hard but it can be done. Good luck.

TotallyAverage your life sounds so lovely and like you have managed to have it all to me actually because you feel fulfilled and happy