Having a 3rd child and a career

[FolkSongSweet]

Does anyone have 3 (or more!) children with both parents working full time?

I’m a city lawyer and aiming for partnership in the next 3-5 years (I’m 7pqe and partnership takes longer in my practice area). My kids are 4 and 18 months (2.5 yr gap) and I’m 35. I want another child, ideally in a year or so to have another 2.5 year gap but I’m worried that I will totally screw myself over career wise, and even if I didn’t, it might not be possible to cope with 3 kids and such a full on job. DH also works full time in a stressful job but is self employed and at the moment tends to do 5 days a week but including a weekend day so that he can have the kids 1 day per week. We have a nanny the other 4 days. No family nearby.

Id love to “have it all” but wonder if it’s just not possible at this crunch point of career+fertility.

As someone who was outsourced to a nanny as a child I would strongly suggest not having a third child if the reality is that you are just creating extra work for your nanny and carrying on with your life as normal. You will not get well-adjusted children who are attached to you. I can't really be bothered sugar coating it, I think it needs to be said. I'm sure people who use nannies will disagree, but as the child in this situation I can tell you it is a recipe for disaster.

I'm a lone parent of 3 and have a career (nursing management). I had mine in 5 years too (9, 6 and 4). A few months ago I'd of said of course it is possible etc.etc. however I have now hit burn out after my last promotion and I am stepping back down. Even if I outsourced the cleaning etc. I still felt I was too exhausted to actually enjoy my children. Trying to juggle going to school/preschool events has stressed me out, especially as were coming into summer with all the end of term events. Maybe with a supportive partner, it would be easier but I have hit my limit for now. I will re-look at it in 5 years when they are much less dependent on me.

I probably wouldn't in your situation, although it is of course doable and if you make it to partner you can spend more money on nannies, holiday clubs etc. I just don't think it is in your kids best interest. They want their parents to raise them and spend time with them, and even if you can squeeze in a babychino with your kid, they will still know that you are rushing to get back to work and that you aren't really present. Having to try and cram in alone time with three kids is a lot harder than with two. As others have also said, the older they get the more they need you as well, and not for the practical and easy stuff, but for the emotional support.

I stopped at two since I had a DH who worked 12-13 hour days, and travelled extensively. I worked FT too, but could manage with after school clubs and family support for the holidays when they were small. Once the oldest got to be around 10, I started working 4 days a week, and then 3 days a couple of years later. I just felt like the time I had for them was not enough, and they are so much more important than any job. Their dad has also slowed down as they have been getting older, so we are both much more present, and those years were the most harmonious years we have had.

This is the risk. But it very much depends on the fine detail and dynamics of the arrangement and also the personalities involved.

im doing exactly what you said people with nannies would do but😂 in our case we are around a lot (WFH) and nanny goes home at 5pm like childcare for any working parents. I can see she has enriched our lives rather than replaced us. She is our best friend now and we even go to each other’s house on the weekend sometimes for dinner and drinks. The kids are very clear on who mummy is and always look for me for cuddles, even when she’s there. DH pops out between meetings to play football and basketball with them. We sit down for dinner together most nights right after she goes home. Etc.

I’m not sure of the answer but I have three children and we are both working in professional services. I have two at primary and my youngest is now 3 and I have been working in a non client facing role since she was born. Now I feel ready to return to client facing and step up my career but I am not sure if I’m misguided. It will only now be possible because of hybrid working and more acceptance that parents can manage their family commitments during the working day such as sports day, meetings at school etc.
i agree with posters above that once they are at school their social lives take up a huge amount of time and brain space. Parties and activities take up much of the weekends. Also as they go to bed later it’s not as easy to get work done after bedtimes. They want to stay up and tell you about their day. School and activities require your time and brain space too as there are always letters and extra things to pack each day. I’ve thought that I need a home PA almost more than childcare!
it is doable but it’s very hard. I find three children much harder than two but I wouldn’t change jt for the world and I’m so glad we have them all and that I kept my hand in at work albeit took a slightly less demanding role for a while.

I have three and still work in city law - but in house, not as a partner. And I had twins which reduced the Mat leave.

I personally couldn’t do partnership and give my children why they need/what I want to give them in terms of time and attention. And I have a husband in a flexible role (still city but again not private practice).

we can afford a great nanny who supports homework well but there is a gap. They want you mentally and emotionally more when at school. School brings different tensions and needs in terms of time and engagement. 11 plus/transfers are stressful and can’t really be effectively out sourced. Evening activities run later or they want to real play dates with actual friends which means not everyone is home and bathed and in PJs conveniently at 6.30.

my career is still really fulfilling - I am still transaction facing but more strategic and targeted rather than running the CP process and hand holding junior associates and trainees. But it’s not as well paid as partnership. That said between DH and I we earn enough to have a 4 bed house in zone 2 and to be able to fund a nanny/private school for secondary/savings and pensions and a decent foreign Holiday every year. It’s a great life but not a partnership money life!

We are a two career family and my eldest is at school now. I wouldn’t rely on school making it easier as personally I find there’s loads to remember, events to go to etc, play dates to support friendships. Plus your DC might need extra support with school work ( they might not). Definitely go for it if you want one but I personally think 3 would be hard with 2 parents with a career unless you’re happy to have a nanny doing lots of the ‘parental’ role. My DH had this upbringing and it was fine but not what I wanted.

Ok wow - lots of food for thought.

My practice area doesn’t really lend itself to in house unfortunately but there are some opportunities and maybe I should consider in future. At the moment partnership is still far off enough away to make it impossible to really say whether it will happen but certainly no reason to rule it out at this stage and whether it’s the ultimate goal or not I think I should assume it is for present purposes.

I should say that although DH’s career is demanding, I am the breadwinner and he is the “default parent” in the sense of taking days when they’re sick, doing more of the mental load around kids stuff. The issue we’ve been having recently is that the kids both just want me more all the time, but presumably that changes when they get older? At the moment DH looks after them 1 day a week but we’re considering swapping that to 2 half days from sept so that he can pick up DC1 2 days a week and in theory facilitate play dates etc on those days.

It’s true though that we haven’t yet experienced many commitments for the kids in terms of activities, friends, homework and that’s what I’m worried about if we add a 3rd into the mix.

Also be wary of extra needs. My eldest was only diagnosed with ADHD and dyspraxia when he was 9. Before then we had 3 years of very anxious and stressy/emotional evenings after school. It nearly broke me.

Once diagnosed things were better but we have so many medical appointments its unreal:
Dr
Optician
Dentist and orthodontist (both mine have braces so regular 6 weekly appointments)
Psychistrist
Psychomotor therapy
Neurologist (3 of us have migraines)

Again, if you and the DC are happy for the nanny to cover lots of this its probably doable. But personally I am very involved in their extra needs, as well as their homework. I don't like them reading to our nanny for example, i prefer knowing how they're getting on and doing it myself.

I would wait until after 3 months of eldest starting school. Then try for third child. You will make it work because that is what parents do. Partnership might be delayed by a year but what is that compared to a dear much wanted new baby? One day you will retire but your children are for life.

I take the points re reading and medical appointments and stuff. Luckily neither child has any issues though of course possible that a third could. I suppose I kind of thought DH could do more of this stuff - do the people who are saying it’s a lot/unmanageable feel the brunt fell to them? Did your partner do half or more than half?

Mine does half and it’s still quite a lot. I’m on mat leave with 3rd so a typical weeks activities are : ds1 school Mon-fri, ds2 childcare tues - thurs. wed afternoon pil pick them up which is awesome, otherwise it’s school pick up the other days. Dh picks up ds2 from childcare tues and thurs. Tues am is ds1 basketball training before school, Thurs I take ds1 (+baby) to his gymnastics after school, fri ds2 has gymnastics in the morning then ds1 has basketball after school. Saturday ds1 has football 8:45am and they each have a swim lesson later in the morning. dh usually takes them to all of these while I’m home with baby. Dh is very keen to add piano for ds1, I’ve said we need baby to be a little older, at 3m it’s too hard to add something else in.

Once you’re past the key vaccinations medical appts that come up are : doctor clearance childcsre requires for them to come back after some reportable infectious diseases eg slapped cheek, flu vaccine, covid vaccine, sore toe a month ago, A&E last week in case he broke his arm falling off the trampoline, a series of appts for chronic coughs over a year, followed by 6 monthly appts for a gp letter when it recurs, I need to book them eye appointments, Dh booked them dentist appts in March and they are rebooked for September as that seems to be a 6monthly check. These are two very healthy little boys!

i wouldn’t change it for the world and am still wistfully contemplating having one more but it is quite a lot! Next year when I’m back at full time work will have to get a nanny who will take them to after school activities.

As someone who was outsourced to a nanny as a child I would strongly suggest not having a third child if the reality is that you are just creating extra work for your nanny and carrying on with your life as normal. You will not get well-adjusted children who are attached to you. I can't really be bothered sugar coating it, I think it needs to be said. I'm sure people who use nannies will disagree, but as the child in this situation I can tell you it is a recipe for disaster.

^ I agree. Watching friends being picked up and dropped off by mums and dads, parents coming on school trips, to all the shows etc and being there for playdates and actually getting to know your friends, all the informal chatting when there isn't an endless to do list of more important (work) things to do....so sad to just outsource parenting. A cleaner and gardener sure, but someone else to take care of parenting as some have described above just isn't best for the kids.

I have 4 children and a full time, research intensive academic job at a RG university. DH is a doctor. We have managed without family nearby and we have always used nurseries (and for a brief period, a nanny which did not work out at all). Kids are now 13, 12, 9 and 2 (so I had 3 grouped together, like you would).

Family life only works smoothly because my job is relatively flexible so I can, for example, express milk at work in my own office and make up lost hours of work in evenings. It is very stressful sometimes and we have a cleaner twice a week which does help a lot (I do all the laundry and groceries though). Most of the kids' hobbies happen via school or very locally i.e. I can walk them there easily. The good parts are far more plentiful than the bad (although on the bad days I question my wisdom!).

My career progression was probably slowed by having 4 children but I am relatively successful at what I do. I could not have accepted giving up work at any point - after the slog of PhD and post-doc contracts it would be too much to sacrifice.

None of my friends have primary school kids yet so I’m clueless, but do the majority of families really have either a SAHM parent or someone working part time so as to facilitate 3pm pick ups every day? Atm all my friends with kids use nurseries or nannies until 6pm, though some do 4 days a week so it’s not every day.

if that’s the case then adding another child is neither here nor there because I can’t do that with the 2 I’ve already got! But I don’t know anyone else who can either. All of my NCT group for example are planning to make full use of wrap around care when it comes to September. Maybe this is a London phenomenon but I don’t know any families who can afford a SAHP.

Most of the families at my child's school seen to have something in place, there's hardly anyone there past 4.30. We're Midlands but in an area not far off outer London house prices. I'd love to know how they do it!

In your shoes I'd definitely suggest waiting. I've certainly found school harder than nursery because of the lack of flexibility - nursery never demanded cakes for bake sales 24 hours before or have similar notice for costume days. It feels like there are so many more balls to juggle and your child is old enough to remember if you drop one that matters.

In the meantime perhaps you could reconsider your priorities. Could partnership wait? Could your husband scale back his career to push yours? Are you happy outsourcing parenting to a nanny?

Personally I think there is a balance to be struck that shows your children what a great parent is. In my experience that's one who has something outside the house for them too AND spends time with them to teach them the right values AND is absolutely unequivocally there for them when they need them. As you can imagine that's harder the more kids you have!

Most of the parents at my DCs school seem to work it between the two of them plus after school club plus grandparents- e.g mum one day, dad one day, 2 after school days and then grandparents one day (for example). I don’t know any children that do after school club every day but that’s just my experience. After school clubs usually finish at 5/5:30 ish which is also quite useless for a lot of jobs (mine included).

My DH was dropped off with a ‘nanny’ at 7am and she picked him up everyday.

My DC isn’t the kind of child who would thank you for sending him to after school club every day. He’s ready for home after school.

As an example as well I was given 1 days notice of an invite into a special celebratory thing at school today. Nightmare!

I think it must vary between schools - my children's primary school has an oversubscribed and excellent quality before and after school club. I gave my kids the option of walking home in year 6 rather than going to after school club - they chose the club because it was more fun ...!

I'm sorry but at 4 and 18 months you can't possibly know that your DC will never have extra needs. I certainly didn't.

But for arguments sake, let's say they are ordinary healthy kids needing no extra medical support or tuition.

My DC are picked up from school by our nanny (she just does after school) and she takes them to the park, brings them home, supervises showers and reheats dinner Ive batch cooked at the weekend. I come home at 7pm and they're ready for bed, they just need to do their homework with me (we re in France- there's a lot even at primary age).

Sports are done on Wednesday (no school and I don't work so I take them), Friday evening after school (I WFH on Fridays so nanny takes DC1 and I look after DC2 to save him being dragged out), and Saturday (DH and I split the DC).

With 2DC we've managed it so they don't get dragged around too much for their brother's sports/medical appointments. A 3rd DC would spend a LOT more time being carted around so the older ones can carry on as normal.

The SAHM with 3 or 4 DC that I know all use a babysitter to help getting kids to activities

I take the point though re activities and commitments. I have to hope that taking kids to multiple medical appts isn’t the norm and so statistically unlikely but it is pretty likely that I might want them to do some sports or learn an instrument or something and it comes to the same thing.

But I will be working full time whether I have 2 kids or 3 so whether I have another or not I’m not going to be at the school gates and doing the play dates. If even SAHMs need babysitters to help with the activity admin then why is it so bad if I have a nanny do that? Maybe the answer is that one person can’t do it all so I would need a nanny AND a babysitter 😬

In a similar position. Both myself and Dh are senior in the legal profession. While I would love love love a third, I just don’t think I could stretch myself enough. Law is incredibly demanding and it really is tricky enough to manage with two children. A third would definitely tip me over the edge and it wouldn’t benefit my dc to have to share me more than they already do.

I don't have three children myself but all the parents who do seem to be part time at least. They're all in finance, law, NHS or are academics.
I agree things get more full on in primary school and long gone are the days when I could log back on at 8pm.

There’s nothing ‘wrong’ with having a nanny collect them all the time but you won’t see them much and a 3rd would just reduce the amount of time you can spend with each of them. It’s an individual choice.

If you go for private school (or a lot of state schools to be honest) they would probably do music and sport there so less ferrying around unless they’re really good at it and want to pursue it more.