Thoughts on some of the negative comments on here and in real life

[Dontcryformeallegra]

I must admit, I haven't really had many negative comments about having 4 children in real life but I often read stuff on Mumsnet!
What do you think about the following and do you have any to ad?

@LittleMysSister
Other countries show that you can have a much lower environmental impact while still having millions of people.

Well yes. Through green technology and practices we have proven that we can reduce the per capita environmental impact...meaning more people can live with less impact overall. I expect us to get better at it too.

Isn't there predicted to be a care crisis/economic shortfall in the next generation because of under population...?

I think birthrate in the UK(and possibly other developed countries) is something like 1.8 and with people living longer there won't be enough working age population to compensate (not that that's got anything to do with the environment!)

I had 2 children because I thought that's how many I could cope with!!
Obviously if I'd had a multiple birth I would have had to cope.

@Glassofshloer
I mean you could’ve said that before

Well my user name is in French and the post you responded to did say “If you live in UK” implying I did not live in UK.

But that’s ok, those are subtle clues, I’m not offended you did not know and besides if I did live in UK, we would be on same page so thought you should know we agree more than we disagree :)

I think people just don't know how bad it's going to get environmentally

Having children now knowing that they're lives are guaranteed to be WORSE than yours is nuts - EVERY part of their lives is going to change

And more importantly the suffering they will have to watch around the world - Covids a picnic compared to what's coming

Who cares if we're below replacement level - there are still enough humans the world over to run a better life without us having multiple humans here

I can never believe the level of denial people are operating with 🤷‍♀️

@antsinyourpanta

Isn't there predicted to be a care crisis/economic shortfall in the next generation because of under population...?

I think birthrate in the UK(and possibly other developed countries) is something like 1.8 and with people living longer there won't be enough working age population to compensate (not that that's got anything to do with the environment!)

Are the parents in larger families raising them to be care workers? Because IME of being a SW, most care workers are here because of immigration, generally first generation. Their children have fewer children and then also don't want to do care work.

Immigration meets care needs, not bigger families already in the UK.

Yes, there will be a lack of people to work here - so we will just have to import them

@LaurieFairyCake

Yes, there will be a lack of people to work here - so we will just have to import them

Possibly from the countries that are underwater because of climate change.

Where I live, there is a housing shortage with more and more of the greenfields being built on despite everyone protesting, the roads are jammed up, schools are oversubscribed and you struggle to get a timely GP or dentist appointment. Having large families just compounds these issues exponentially.

Having children now knowing that they're lives are guaranteed to be WORSE than yours

There is no guarantee of this prophecy coming true.

I've got 4 and no one's ever said anything negative (to my face!) I guess people do often make comments along the lines of "rather you then me", but I've always taken that at face value-they wouldn't want 4 kids themselves, it's not really a judgement that I DO want 4 kids.

@clarrylove

Where I live, there is a housing shortage with more and more of the greenfields being built on despite everyone protesting, the roads are jammed up, schools are oversubscribed and you struggle to get a timely GP or dentist appointment. Having large families just compounds these issues exponentially.

The birth rate has been below 2 for a good while, so these issues really aren't an issue moving forwards.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Having children now knowing that they're lives are guaranteed to be WORSE than yours

There is no guarantee of this prophecy coming true.

Yep this is what I think about. I don't mean to be naive but in the UK, in 10 years, what are we talking about happening? Homes under water? no food? Limited selection of food? My older ones are at the age now that I was having my 1st so these are the facts they will need to know before having any children in the UK.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Glassofshloer
I mean you could’ve said that before

Well my user name is in French and the post you responded to did say “If you live in UK” implying I did not live in UK.

But that’s ok, those are subtle clues, I’m not offended you did not know and besides if I did live in UK, we would be on same page so thought you should know we agree more than we disagree :)[/quote]
I can speak French so I knew that 😂 but a french username doesn’t automatically mean you live there.

I would encourage anyone that genuinely believes there are not too many people on this planet, or that worry we are going to die out because birth rates are falling in the west, to watch David Attenborough's A Life On Our Planet.

It does put into very simple terms that we are over populated.

There is a climate crisis, whether you agree with it or not. You do not have to take responsibility for it and you are free to live as you please. We are all free to live as we please.

It isn't sanctimonious to acknowledge the crisis or to try to "do better".

The temperature on this planet is rising and it will rise no matter what. Now it is about preservation and about slowing that climb as best we can. It isn't alarmist, it's just the truth.

I've not come here to tell people with more that 2 children that they have done something wrong. Each child is a blessing, on a personal level. But please do think twice before denying the climate crisis. You do owe it to your children, whether there are 2 of them or 22 of them to acknowledge what is happening to their home and arm them with the knowledge to change it.

Prophecy ??

No, just start by extenuating out from here - this winter is GUARANTEED to be worse than last because of the rise in costs of fuel for hundreds of thousands of people.

Thousands more people are going to die of cold this year - something which Age concern say is a FACT

This (terrible) government are literally saying right now that we're going to have to get used to lower temperatures in our homes - and as anyone knows we have appalling housing stock in some of the poorest areas

But of course you don't think your kids are going to be poor 🤷‍♀️

So do the same with food, petrol etc - 30% increase in fuel. 18% for food. I could fill up my car on £50 last year, it took £70 the last time I had to fill.

Just extrapolate out with what you already see happening....

And then look further afield where climate death is going to happen in places which have extreme temperatures already - large parts of the world are going to become inhabitable in 20/30 years

But of course you don't live there so you think it won't affect you. Obviously it will as they travel to places less affected and put pressure on life there.

You do owe it to your children, whether there are 2 of them or 22 of them to acknowledge what is happening to their home and arm them with the knowledge to change it.

Yep, if you produce an Earthshot finalist, all will be justified

MrsTerryPratchett there need to be a certain number of working age tax payers per pensioner/ care user. It's not the lack of care workers primarily, its the lack of tax payers as the population ages.

To maintain current ratios of working age population to state pension age population you need a birthrate of between 2.1 and 3 children per woman (2.1 is replacement level, 3 is to compensate for an ever increasing retired population until the early to mid 1960s born population reach retirement age, as that's the end of the really large population bulge after which the birthrate reduced somewhat, and all those people living longer living longer with higher healthcare needs as they age)

So where are all the children of larger families going to live. If you have 10 or 11 children I assume you would want them all to have their own home, or are you expecting them to stay living with you forever.

Meanwhile, Boris' next architectural wonder will be an aquatic fence all along the channel...

*While big families are a global negative, they're a national positive because of the aging population and fact that there will be no state pension or free at the point of use universal healthcare if the number of working age members of the population per retirement age person declines below a certain point.

The average number of children per woman (in her lifetime) in the UK is between 1.5 and 1.65, which is below the replacement level - on a global scale its 2.4, and over 4 in some countries.*

This but it's an uncomfortable truth for many

I think it's a ridiculous statement to say no people in the west should have children because we can just import people from elsewhere

Who will pay for the pensions of the 11 children though, because surely it is just a growing problem?

Ridiculous?

Fine, say the west has replacement children to the level required in our tiny island - you will just condemn them to a war over resources

They would literally have to defend this place because people don't like immigrants and think only their kids matter

I can foresee production line factories for the care of the elderly. Robot arms from Vauxhall, transport from Amazon, lavvies from Japan and showers from Star Trek.