Thoughts on some of the negative comments on here and in real life

[Dontcryformeallegra]

I must admit, I haven't really had many negative comments about having 4 children in real life but I often read stuff on Mumsnet!
What do you think about the following and do you have any to ad?

I think, generally, smaller families are needed for environmental reasons.

However. Some people are simply brilliant parents and who would want to stop them perpetuating what works. We lose skills along with family size. Negotiation, mediation, tolerance, sharing, make do and mend etc. So if you can raise well-adjusted mediators for peace, more power to your elbow, or ...whatever.

I've got 8 children, and 2 stepchildren. I don't give 2 figs what anybody thinks of me or my family. There are people out there doing far worse to the environment than us. Both my husband and myself are in a high income bracket. We claim nothing at all, and we do not use NHS services, education, or any other Public Health services. So people can gripe all they want. We don't take anything from anybody, so it's nobody else business.

I wonder if it balances out a bit as some are having none, some 1… seems more common these days?

My small family isn't a carbon offset for yours!

@MrsTerryPratchett

I wonder if it balances out a bit as some are having none, some 1… seems more common these days?

My small family isn't a carbon offset for yours!

But is it? Serious question?

Some interesting points. What is the cut off date for acceptance of large families? I have a large family and always wonder how many were born after this rough date.

I'm one of four kids.

I think sometimes people forget multiple births happen. Sometimes people are only planning on having one or two but end up with three or four. As was the case in my family.

I have four. I would love a fifth but we can't afford it and I don't think
I could personally give them the individual attention they deserve. With the age gaps my children have, it's perfect as it is.

I know I've had disapproving comments made both to my face and behind my back but I really dont give a shiny shite.

I have quite a few children and come from a very large family so lots of nieces and nephews etc.

Every single one of them, and their partners, are educated and/or work bloody hard and are an asset to society.

I know others with singletons or who come from a small family and many of their DCs are lazy and a drain tbh.

Environmental issues aside, it’s the parenting not the amount of children that’s key here

While big families are a global negative, they're a national positive because of the aging population and fact that there will be no state pension or free at the point of use universal healthcare if the number of working age members of the population per retirement age person declines below a certain point.

The average number of children per woman (in her lifetime) in the UK is between 1.5 and 1.65, which is below the replacement level - on a global scale its 2.4, and over 4 in some countries.

Its a catch 22 on a national/ global scale. Individual countries need to replenish their working age population to support their increasing elderly population (as they can't ethically reduce life expectancy!) but the world can't support an ever expanding population with a global birthrate above the replacement rate obviously...

So you could talk about that.

I have 3 kids. I do think going on and on having children without thinking about the consequences is irresponsible and selfish. A friend of mine says she's bringing up her children to contribute to the world in a positive way so they'll be an asset, which is both admirable and also obviously arrogant (she admits this) and obviously nobody can guarantee that...

Its not quite as simple as having more than two children being all out selfish and bad, and I do think having any at all somewhat abdicates the right to preach too righteously, especially combined with things like a high consumption lifestyle, heavy shopping habit, bigger than necessary centrally heated home (or more than one home) lots of travel, lots of big pets and several big vehicles to transport pets in etc. It might not be as bad as the long term impact of another child but multiple large pets and vehicles and buying a lot of "stuff" you don't use (including clothes) is equally selfish and cognitively dissonant...

But is it? Serious question?

No. Because 4 in the UK is massively more damaging in terms of impact than 4 in Mozambique.

@GertietheGherkin

I've got 8 children, and 2 stepchildren. I don't give 2 figs what anybody thinks of me or my family. There are people out there doing far worse to the environment than us. Both my husband and myself are in a high income bracket. We claim nothing at all, and we do not use NHS services, education, or any other Public Health services. So people can gripe all they want. We don't take anything from anybody, so it's nobody else business.

Missing the point entirely. This is about the environment, not benefits claims!

The only thing I would say to those all ‘yeah people say things about my family but I couldn’t give a shit’, do you acknowledge that overpopulation is wrecking the planet? And do you not worry that your grandchildren and great grandchildren will suffer because of that?

Bear in mind I originally posted generally supportive of bigger families, as in 4/5/6 kids, but 8+ is, to me, really quite selfish.

ScatteredMama82 the environment is only one of the points listed in the OP, so the poster you quote isn't missing the point of the thread entirely, just only addressing part of the point - like most of the other posters.

The thread starter asks how people reply to negative points about things like the environment, individual attention for the children, and relying on benefits.

@stairgates

Some interesting points. What is the cut off date for acceptance of large families? I have a large family and always wonder how many were born after this rough date.

I wonder this too. I only have 2 kids but I don't remember people talking about the environmental impact of having children 13 years ago when my youngest was conceived but maybe I just wasn't aware. It seems like all of a sudden it became all anyone talked about but it's not like we could do anything about it at that point.

If the kids are happy I couldn't care about family size. I do sort of inwardly judge those who are already very overcrowded and keep adding, or those who keep complaining that they can't afford things because they have a big family. I know a school mum who has 6 dc in a tiny 2 bed flat. The eldest has ASD (he's a teen now) and she goes on about how he's so inconsiderate about wanting his own space. It just sounds so selfish and self absorbed.
I've never heard anyone IRL critisize a big family due to environmental reasons, it's usually about having enough money/time/resources.

I have twins at the end.
I wasn't planning on 4
Is 3 a large family?
We can't really afford it and do have benefits but we have had a tough time financially and now kids are pupil premium

Environmentally we don't fly often at all.
Our car has only done 36k in 8 years
We walk to primary school
Ds takes public transport to secondary

@stairgates

Some interesting points. What is the cut off date for acceptance of large families? I have a large family and always wonder how many were born after this rough date.

I wonder this too. My earliest school memories are probably from the very early 90s when we first started talking about aerosols and the ozone layer. Everyone had siblings and nobody recycled much. My mum and dad would queue the glass bottles up by the back door and once a week, we'd drop them off at the bottle bank on the way to the car boot.

Sometime in the last 30> years things have changed. My brother and his gf have just had their first and plan on having 4 and 5. Inwardly, I do judge them but I keep it to myself.

My brother and his gf have just had their first and plan on having 4 and 5

If they’ve only just had their first I wouldn’t worry just yet, they’ll probably change their minds

@Glassofshloer

My brother and his gf have just had their first and plan on having 4 and 5

If they’ve only just had their first I wouldn’t worry just yet, they’ll probably change their minds

That's what I said. 😂 SIL looked at me as though I'd just announced I murder babies. 😂

And every one of those multiple kids will need housing as adults. Build, build, build. Like someone said, there will be no countryside left.

I learned about Malthus theory in A level geography in the 90s and was freaked out by that let alone environmental concerns! So was never going to gave more than 2. I find it surprising how few seem to give any thought to wider issues when planning their family but accept I’m an over thinker.

I'm only saying this because you asked - if you were a relative of mine I would delight in your family

But I don't think anyone should be having children in the West - there's plenty of people over the world who can come and work here - we do NOT NEED as a world to produce more humans

@LaurieFairyCake

I'm only saying this because you asked - if you were a relative of mine I would delight in your family

But I don't think anyone should be having children in the West - there's plenty of people over the world who can come and work here - we do NOT NEED as a world to produce more humans

What none?

Those saying ‘climate change wasn’t talked about when I had my children’ - it was. It was taught in schools in the 70s and 80s.

But, there was no social media and all this sanctimonious environmental concern 90% of the population seems to have nowadays. That is the main difference.

We knew the planet was in a state 40 years ago, but it’s only trendy to care about it since 2017 or whatever.

This is why I can’t stand a family with 2 adult children criticising a family with 3 young ones because ‘the environment’. Or they criticise those who travel often eg for work saying ‘your carbon footprint must be massive’. Actually, it’s tiny compared to yours and your three kids’ that’s accumulated over the last 30 years.

Have all the children you want, and don’t share any judgement with those who have decided differently than you.

We knew the planet was in a state 40 years ago, but it’s only trendy to care about it since 2017 or whatever.

I was a member of Greenpeace (founded 1971) and Friends of the Earth in the 1980s. I shook a tin at 18 for them (sometimes in the face of pretty extreme hostility).

You might not have given a shit. Many of us did.