Thoughts on some of the negative comments on here and in real life

[Dontcryformeallegra]

I must admit, I haven't really had many negative comments about having 4 children in real life but I often read stuff on Mumsnet!
What do you think about the following and do you have any to ad?

I'd never comment on it because no point, but having a large family is destructive to all our futures. Because, even though you might offset it in this generation by not flying, and living a low impact lifestyle etc, the point is you are putting 4 new people on the earth, which vastly increases the potential number of people in the future generations they produce.

So it's the wrong thing to do ethically. But that hasn't really trickled through yet, in 20 years time I think it will be very frowned on.

It's your life OP and you can have as many children that you want, can care for etc. It's lovely having a big family, that's what life is ultimately about. I was an only child growing up and I would have loved to have had siblings growing up and even now wish I had them. I have a DD and another on the way and I want them to have each other. If you have the time/space/money & love for all of them then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all

I don't really believe most of the criticism comes from a genuine place of environmental concern, even if that is the reason ostensibly given. Unless it is coming from someone who has made a conscious choice to have 0 children themselves for this reason, which I'm sure would be a small minority and isn't the case for the majority on this site obviously.

I think it's more that there is a bit of a stigma around large families, potentially due to attitudes around claiming benefits and people not working. I think many see the ability to afford a larger family as the preserve of those claiming nowadays. Even if it's not the case, I think people still assume it is at first when they know a family has lots of kids.

That said though, I am surprised you've had comments with 4 children as I wouldn't have considered that to be a massive family.

A lot of those who criticised larger families and the lack of individual attention are those who have lived through it, especially on MN and it's their right to highlight their experience.

I'm very much 'one and done' and people (including the OP) criticise that as well.

@CheshireChat

A lot of those who criticised larger families and the lack of individual attention are those who have lived through it, especially on MN and it's their right to highlight their experience.

I'm very much 'one and done' and people (including the OP) criticise that as well.

I didnt actually

I do judge silently. It takes a particularly aggressive personality to say something to your face though so it unlikely you’d experience much of this.

Sorry, that's what I assumed you meant when you mentioned you wouldn't give your opinion or similar (paraphrasing here as I'm too lazy to go back and check!). Apologies.

I have somewhat of an issue because of environmental reasons, but not enough to pass comment. Apart from that I worry less if you are paying for them, I think it is out of order if you are expecting the taxpayer to pay for them.

There is a difference between having an opinion and feeling the need to comment in real life though. I would not comment in real life unless specifically asked, that does not mean I do not have an opinion.

Can I ask honestly the people on this thread, do you think anything will stop climate change, honestly. I don't have any faith in massive change. I feel that mine having their brothers and sisters will be an advantage as things get worse.

Most people including me respect that the number of children is a personal decision but what I do have is an issue with people who then complain they can't afford a larger house, larger car, can't get sufficient benefits etc. I have two kids because kids are expensive and I wanted to be able to afford to raise them.

If you can afford your kids and don't moan about not having enough time etc then it's nobody's business but yours

@stairgates

Can I ask honestly the people on this thread, do you think anything will stop climate change, honestly. I don't have any faith in massive change. I feel that mine having their brothers and sisters will be an advantage as things get worse.

I appreciate the fact as human beings we do (and should) put our own families and ourselves before some ‘greater good’. As I said if my health allowed it I would like 3-5, but I also acknowledge it would be selfish in a wider context. Services are very overburdened at the moment.

I don’t agree with the environmental argument concerning children.
To me, every human owns a carbon foot print. My children are not extensions of my foot print like a pet dog would be and should not be counted as such. I think environmentalists that use the child argument are not truly environmentalists because they inevitably believe that being child free then gives them a free pass on doing anything else for the environment. Exotic holiday...so what, I’m child free that’s worth 25 exotic holidays. They are the one “counting” children as extensions of their footprint purely so they can live a high carbon lifestyle and feel justified because they “did their bit” by being child free.

Some of us have to have children to keep the species going, so having children is not selfish, but selfless as parents pay the costs to raise them and those children in turn work and pay the taxes to support all the elderly those with and those without children. Society has no future without children. Someone has to do it.

In addition, my having 4 children has still resulted in my entire country having a birth rate below replacement level..such that we’d eventually die out if it were not for immigration. If you measure on global level, the human population growth rate is the slowest it has been since the 1950s and is projected by the UN to reach zero growth or decline by the end of the century. Yeah, if everyone were having 4 children plus and the National or global situation looked grim, I’d agree, probably should have stopped after 1. But it doesn’t look grim. Our population growth has gotten slower and slower every year for 70yrs....it looks good in my opinion.

And Malthus was proved wrong btw.

Yes I can see why someone with 4 children would tell themselves that. I don’t agree sorry. There are too many people on the planet which massively contributes to the problems all our children will face. You and others having four plus children will make life less pleasant for all of yours and for my two.

I don’t think the economic arguments override this. I wish it wasn’t true either.

@MsTSwift just out of interest, what would you say if your daughter wanted a big family & it was her heart’s desire?

There are too many people on the planet

This is a matter of opinion. I don’t think there are too many people on the planet. If you live in UK, one of the most densely populated countries in the world, it would only be natural to feel the rest of the world is a crowded place.

@stairgates

Can I ask honestly the people on this thread, do you think anything will stop climate change, honestly. I don't have any faith in massive change. I feel that mine having their brothers and sisters will be an advantage as things get worse.

I think there are lots of things that can slow/halt climate change, but I don't think it's realistic to focus on the amount of children people are having as the environment will never trump most people's desire to have or grow a family.

It's just not realistic. The only thing that could enforce smaller families all round is to mandate it like China, but quite honestly the majority of people (in the UK at least) are only having 1-2 children as it is.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Well what you put is shining the most positive light possible on big families, and sort of selectively ignoring the bad stuff.

It’s not just about the environment, our services are under heavy strain, there’s a lack of housing, the NHS is crippled etc. I know you will say about today’s babies being nurses in 25 years but really, how many of them will be? Probably not a greater proportion than now.

Plus if the planet as a whole is overcrowded but the U.K. isn’t, then the answer is immigration, not bigger families.

Like I said I am part of an enormous family & would also like a biggish family, it won’t happen because of my health issues, but I can also put my hands up and acknowledge it would all be for me & my kids. Sometimes we have to be a bit honest with ourselves.

@PlanDeRaccordement

There are too many people on the planet

This is a matter of opinion. I don’t think there are too many people on the planet. If you live in UK, one of the most densely populated countries in the world, it would only be natural to feel the rest of the world is a crowded place.

I think that there is a huge amount of people on our planet but surely it's the behaviour and things that people consume that make the biggest difference, rather than the amount?

Other countries show that you can have a much lower environmental impact while still having millions of people.

@Pumpkinsonparade

11 dc here. Gave up listening to negative comments years ago.

Good for you. We need more larger families as the birth rate is dropping in the UK. We should be encouraging lots of couples to have more babies.

@HarrisMcCoo why don’t we just up immigration instead?

Yes I think as climate change starts to bite and is brought more to general attention if you plan a large family now you are going to need to be quite bullish about it and have a pretty thick skin.

@Glassofshloer

To be fair, I live in France. We are not as densely populated as the UK. I do think England is overpopulated. We don’t have an underfunded health system like you do, so no worries there.

In comparison to rest of world, the UK is one of the most densely populated countries...almost double the density of China.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Glassofshloer

To be fair, I live in France. We are not as densely populated as the UK. I do think England is overpopulated. We don’t have an underfunded health system like you do, so no worries there.

In comparison to rest of world, the UK is one of the most densely populated countries...almost double the density of China.[/quote]
I mean you could’ve said that before

I don't really believe most of the criticism comes from a genuine place of environmental concern, even if that is the reason ostensibly given.

I tend to agree with this. I think a lot of the people who say oh I had none/one/two because of the planet are just latching onto something that they were doing anyway to make themselves feel better about all the things they aren't doing.