Really hurt by comments about our family size

[NotaFreeloader]

On announcing my pregnancy I have comments from 4 different people 2 question have I decided to have another just so I ‘don’t have to work’
Another saying we just want a bigger house
Then someone else saying I must not have been careful with contraception- this was a planned baby

For a start yes I do intend to work once the youngest is at school. Whenever that may be and I have a Dh who works and supports us
I don’t want to move we have plenty of room
If I worked now it’d cost the government a LOT for helping with childcare so it’s not that I’m costing ‘the taxpayer’ money

Why can’t people just say congratulations and mind their own business

@Soontobe60 no problem. I didn't mean to be ratty but it's just that in Singapore, the effects of an aging population are seen earlier because of low taxes (top tax rate of 20%) and no state pensions

Actually you also highlighted to me that the average age of UK is the same as the average age in Singapore. Which is worrying because I know the tthe Singapore government is investing billions to prepare for the current batch of 50 year olds becoming 90 year olds. More hospital beds, most care homes, more homes designed for the elderly, disability and care benefits. They know my generation would not be able to pay enough in taxes to cover them

They are also increasing taxes. I am based in the UK, but from age 30, I will be forced to pay care benefit to Singapore (a few hundred dollars) even though I realistically cannot claim from the UK if I become old and disabled one day. This is to support the rapidly aging population. I also pay compulsory health insurance in Singapore to support the health system (though I guess I can also use that).

the UK government is not doing the same, I think. Which doesn't bode well for the 60 year olds of today. You can argue people are living too long but that's not something we can change.it doesn't mean that if the UK government isn't admitting there is a demographic crisis, it doesn't exist. All rich countries do. I suspect they think that if it's a big issue in future, they can import lots of workers as an easy fix or increase taxes or let old people die.
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@Desiringonlychild

What a shame I didn't read this post off you before I wrote my last one. You seem to have labelled me as some sort of moron.

*@Soontobe60 thanks to you, now I understand why people are so easily manipulated by stats and 'fake news'. Cos they don't do research and can't interpret data. thank you!

Apologies again fro being ratty. I don't think you are a moron btw.
Even though I am stopping at one child, I do worry what would happen if everyone thought like me and had only 1-2 children. I dont want my only child paying 70% taxes to support oldies like me. At the same time, having a child is such a personal decision, bringing a child into the world and raising he/she well is not an easy task. no matter what governments think, people cannot be compelled to produce children, they have to want it. I don't want the stress of raising more than 1 child and thats my choice ( I am not selfless to produce children for the GDP or anything inane like that). However if OP is willing to self sacrifice to produce more children, she should be allowed to. I would be worried if everyone is having 3+ children, but the fertility rate isn't suggesting it.

Given the environmental impact of your choice I’d struggle to offer congratulations tbh.
You can say all you like that your choice costs the state nothing, but 5x school, health and other costs is a burden we don’t need.

Yes I can see it from that perspective and we I’ll have discussions in the future about where we go from here and whether we have any more after this - we didn’t have a set number but I am now thinking more about the environmental issues after reading some responses it has got me thinking to a certain degree

People still look down at those in social housing , it's not subsidised by you so what's your problem
It's non profit run by housing associations who employ lots of people
What people don't realise is once you live in the house it is your home I've spent lots of on my house over the years and on paper we can afford a mortgage
But in reality we can't get one as we can't get a huge deposit together
So I will always likely be in my social housing property knowing than many look down on us , despite us working hard ( as in fact so the majority of our neighbours ) most of us would love to own our own house .
Op if you can support your children then it's your choice and no one else's business , same as your house you have a lifetime tenancy which I'm sure like me you are very grateful for , so again you can stay there for as long as you want
Social housing was designed to give people long term housing not a stop gap , as people forget its quite a recent thing over the last maybe 30 years to actually own a house , for the majority .
The sad thing is that there isn't more social housing and less private renting
I also worked out I have paid £70000 in rent in last 15/16 years so will easily pay more than an mortgage on my house would of been in the long term with nothing to leave my children so there are downsides as well .

Jesus Christ, so you're not even certain you'll stop at 5 OP?

We have seven - we both have good jobs, get no benefits and contribute a fortune on income tax yet people still ask me things like do you get free dinners for them - eh no I get nothing!!! Piss off

I’m very confused as to how you had 3 kids 15+ years ago???? Do you have17 year old triplets? Because having 17 year old triplets who are all off to university next year, a toddler and a baby is a very different prospect to having 5 under 10.

Some really nasty comments on this thread. I'm also expecting my 5th. No state handouts here. We own our own large home, both higher rate taxpayers so don't qualify for cb. We are privately
educating from secondary and although we use the gp (and maternity services!!) have a private dentist and bupa cover.

But the OP is just as entitled as me to have a large family. Congratulations OP! Every child is a gift in my view. Jealousy is a terrible thing. I can't believe the reaction the op is getting to living in social housing. There needs to be more social housing so that everyone can have a safe and secure home.

I'm researching my family tree at the moment. Only 70 years ago many many families had 8 or more children. In my family at least those children have gone on to live fulfilling educated lives. I come from a culture where large families are still the norm. There is no shame in living in social housing - frankly we need to get back to a situation where it is for the working poor rather than the destitute who need a different type of support again. There is clearly a need - just look at the number
of families reliant on food banks. Obviously if the op is neglectful towards her children that is different but there is no suggestion of that. And parents of 1 or 2 children can be neglectful.

Congratulations op. People can be incredibly judgemental. I have experienced the same because we have an only child. I have plenty of considered reasons for this but I don't engage with the curious. I sometimes think the judgemental are simply a bit jealous if you are obviously happy with the choices you have made. Good luck. Don't engage

I'm pregnant with my third and it was planned (fiancé's first). The difference is we both work ft, rent privately, and receive no tax credits whatsoever. We are entirely self-sufficient on a joint income pa of around £30k. Monthly rent alone is £900 pm. This will be our last child.

I don't think you can honestly claim the government aren't supporting you financially?

I haven’t and wouldn’t claim we get no government support financially in general as obviously child benefit and tax credits are support BUT what I was explaining previously is that we’ve never had housing or council tax benefit when the social housing is mentioned so in that area we have been paying the full amount ourselves not that we’ve had zero government support.

And yes asking about kids ages there’s quite a big gap between number 3 and 4

But it's still social housing, right?

I would love to have the choice not to have to work ft, to only go back to work when my youngest is in school. I would love to have a four-bedroom house with more than one bathroom.

But the reality is that with the cost private renting these "luxuries" aren't options.

And I can't/won't complain as I chose to have three kids ateotd. These things have to be done.

Congratulations! 😍

@memberof5 your circumstances are totally different though by far. 70 years ago is a long time ago and I do agree people did tend to have large families in my family it was the same and they were very very poor. I’m shocked that people feel “entitled” to have 5 kids even though they are having their wage topped up by tax credits and just behaving as though it’s the norm it’s not about neglect either it’s about living within your means. Going to work is not about money either it learns you work ethic from a young age (something that cannot be bought) and gives you a sense of self worth. There’s a bigger picture by far. The fact that the OP possibly would have more than 5 kids sums it up. My aunt has 7! So it’s nothing personal she’s a good mother however I don’t agree with her choice at all.

I’m quite shocked that people think it’s ok to have this many children when they must realise how bad it is for the environment. Just based on that I wouldn’t be able to congratulate someone who was having another child and I would judge them for what appears to be a very selfish decision

@Bubblebee7 I totally agree. I also don't really think it's right that OP has the "luxury" of not working but receiving tax credits and living in a four-bedroom house (social housing). Just my opinion.

i build social housing - we get between 25-35k per house as a grant from the government in order to be able to produce the social housing as the rents wouldn't cover the costs - it is subsidised by the government and so everyone paying taxes pays for this.

@choosesoap That's what I thought too.

We only have one bathroom/toilet I did t say we had 2 !

But anyway the amount of toilets isn’t really relevant I guess
I do know we are lucky to be in social housing

But that is a different argument. There are plenty of families with one or two children receiving tax credits. The system has rightly been changed so the op won't get more money for this additional child.

As it happens my husband and I both work (full time) so I do understand your frustration. But it is worth my while financially to work. Obviously if it wasn't, I wouldn't. For what it's worth I think that all childcare (including in the home childcare) should be fully tax deductible. I think that is the first step to equalling the gender divide and would encourage women to work and achieve their full potential (and not need to stay in shitty marriages too).

But we shouldn't be vilifying people who live in social housing, even if they appear to have an easier life than us or a bigger home etc etc. And I'm a Tory!!

The difference is though people who have smaller families claiming tax credits are probably doing there best and they may be on low incomes that’s totally different that’s not the problem here. Nobody is saying don’t have children at all. I think the difficult part comes in when over a certain number of children are produced within one household. Anybody would wonder how/why you would continue on a tight budget. The line has to be drawn and that’s how life goes generally with all things. You can’t really blame people for thinking OP is taking full advantage of the system considering more than 5 kids in a pandemic it’s taking the P by far. I don’t see how 3 children and 5+ is comparable.

Of course public housing is subsidised!! Or at least anything built over the last couple of decades has been. For example, any new build of, typically 6+ houses has to provide a proportion (usually 30%) of accomodation to be provided to the public sector as affordable housing. And how is this possibly viable for developers? Well, they pass the cost on to the private home owners. So instead of them paying £200k for a flat, they are now paying £300k. Yes, it will maintain its value, but the outlay/mortgage payments cost that private buyer a lot and push prices up. In addition to which, there are no minimum space standards in the private sector in the same way as the public sector. So, you can get a potentially ludicrous situation where a new private buyer is housed in a smaller property than that which they have effectively subsidized. I worked on a big public housing inquiry in a London Borough and their housing need survey concluded that there was a greater need for 3-4 bedroom properties in the public sector, but only a greater need for bedsits and 1 bedroom flats on the same development site in the private sector due to 'demand' which was, of course, led by affordability. Up until the 70s the taxpayer/govt paid for social housing. Now it's private housebuyers.
Yes, I'm sure that it would cost the state more if you went back to work and paid for childcare. But the fact remains that, were it not for the housing provided, albeit you paying rent on it, the free NHS, free education/school meals etc, you most probably wouldn't be able to afford 5 children, just as most families can't.