Antisemitism

[bubbleandsqueak1976]

I read the posts on here with interest and often the subject of anti semitism comes up. I was brought up in a town in the South East. My mum gave me a book about Anne Frank when I was around 8 and I can remember asking ' what is a Jew?' as I had never met one. When I was about 14 a girl from northern Israel came to my school and I was asked to befriend her and help her settle in. I can remember being fascinated about her life in a Kibbutz and she used to show me
Hebrew writing. I don't recall ever hearing anything anti semitic about her or her brother as the only two Jewish kids - to my knowledge in the school. I also remember in my twenties encountering a group of lads from North London - white something and them having an absolute hatred for Jewish people. I can remember feeling utterly shocked as I'd never heard anti Jewish speak prior to this. Reading some of the recent posts on here it has made me wonder wherever there are pockets in the Uk with Jewish communities that experience antisemitism where the rest of the UK it does not occur as people simply have never met a Jewish person just their life- to their knowledge.Where I live I have only met 4 Jewish people in the Uk in my life and I am 47. The most Jewish people I have met were in Israel when I visited in 2000.

That awful Doctor Rahmeh Aladwan has apparently been arrested.

Hopefully the CPS and police do their jobs and build a proper case (and its not another case where is all falls apart or gets forgotten about).

Her second tribunal is also scheduled for this week.

I swam in the swamps of antisemitism the last few days (ok I surfed x) and honestly I feel dirty. Lots of lovely examples, including some pretty crappy stuff from a massive football fans group on Facebook, John Cleese (whyyyyyy), Nadia sawalha, who gave me dawn french vibes (I’m still shuddering) and this delightful piece on the church times by an as a Jew Jew.

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2025/17-october/comment/opinion/hatred-of-jews-takes-new-forms

he’s figured out why Jews are hated 🤨🙄🙄🙄 I have extracted parts of it, and bolded the bit that was beyond ludicrous.

“…In contrast with previous kinds of antisemitism, Jews are not detested today because they are outsiders. Jewry today is loathed because of Israel’s merciless onslaught on the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank….In the past, Jews were hated because they were different from the majority population. These differences varied considerably from century to century. In contrast, the explosion of Jew-hatred today is based on deeply held moral objections to Israeli policy. Critics around the world are shocked and horrified by the ways in which the Israeli military has carried out its campaign…The explosion of this new kind of antisemitism will, I believe, have devastating consequences. No longer will the Jewish community be regarded as innocent victims, as they were in past centuries; instead, Jewry will be viewed as perpetrators of crimes against humanity, even though many Jewish people abhor Israel’s actions in Gaza. As a result, Jews will be unfairly tarred with the actions of the Israeli government…And these modern antisemites will be joined by millions of protesters around the world who regard the Jewish community as inhumane. The current crimes against humanity will not be forgotten. The memory of this war will continue to haunt Jewry…”

I just want to check something - it’s a new thing that Jews are regarding as guilty of some kind of crime against humanity ? 🧐and in the past we were seen as innocent? 🧐🧐🧐
I think the “rabbi” who wrote this got his semicha in the ministry for silly walks…

Not too hopeful. The people on video going around on megaphones screaming rape the Jewish daughters didn’t get prosecuted. Can’t be bothered to look it up but I think maybe it was a “lack of evidence”? Feel free to correct me . But anyway, that was on video, on megaphones, spread across social media and in real life. But you know, no prosecution for that kind of incitement, so why would they be bothered with this?

I dare you all to watch Nadia sawalha. Im still cringing hours later 🤣

also ana kasparian wants Israelis to know they are LOATHED and she’s not afraid to see it like other people (🙄🙄🙄. I don’t think she knows Israelis speak Ivrit and don’t know who she is…

Here’s a link
https://x.com/suespeaksup/status/1980741709936882096?s=46

And yet, even after all their failures, they still manage to disappoint me.

Apparently CPS couldn't be certain the guy yelling was actually in the car and the guy they were certain was in the car might not have yelled anything...it is truly amazing how incompetent you can be and still keep your job.

The level of self-congratulatory smugness is unbearable. I don't think there's any need for her to be scared of whoever you are paying much attention, this blends into the usual background chorus of derivative blah.

I swam in the swamps of antisemitism the last few days (ok I surfed x) and honestly I feel dirty.

Weirdly, I’ve had a very similar experience on X in the last week or so (basically since the ceasefire started).
People always say social media creates echo chambers, but I just kept seeing one antisemitic post after another.
Nadia Sawalha, Owen Jones, constant rage from that Rahmeh Aladwan and her supporters and lots of other random people.
I hardly see the people I actually follow at the moment.
As for the article you’ve quoted…
I find it so baffling that someone would simultaneously admit that a group of people has been ostracised and persecuted for centuries to then go on and explain how the world now really has a reason to ostracise and persecute them 🙄
Why should Jews all over the world be accountable for the actions of the current Israeli government?
What other group gets treated like that?
I’ve never seen that much blame directed at Russians for instance (and rightly so, not all of them support Putin).
Nobody is going on about how the war Russia launched against Ukraine will be haunting Russians forever… at best I’ve seen posts to that effect from Ukrainians who are understandably angry, but nothing compared to the vitriol directed at Jews.

Wow that Nadia video is something, that smug look she has is embarrassing. She’s a nobody really, trying to be relevant.

I saw this video and it sums up exactly what you’ve said @inamarina

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdvW96PL/

I haven’t done a TikTok link before so hopefully it works!

That video is brilliant, thank you for sharing!
I don’t have TikTok, but I also found it on YouTube.

Ok, so I'm gonna 'as a Jew' in response. 😉

I don't think that's a great article in many ways, agreed, but I'll look at your questions.

'Why should Jews all over the world be accountable for the actions of the current Israeli government?' - We shouldn't be, I don't imagine he's saying we ought to be, but he hasn't made that very clear.

'What other group gets treated like that?' well, people do also get aggressive and prejudice about Muslims for the actions of extremists, though it's not quite the same. The fact is, I think Jews are in a unique position as a group scattered across the world who are of the countries we live in, of a religion and also have this unique association with a single country, without having to be or ever having been citizens of it. So part of the difference is not necessarily that loads of people are just dying to be antisemitic, but this really specific identity scenario we have going on.

For my money, yes, Netanyahu's actions have painted targets on all our backs. Of course, that doesn't demand anyone go for those targets and their existence doesn't make attacking us OK in the slightest. But I have the right to be pissed off that Netanyahu and co put them there. It's utterly unacceptable to attack Jews on a presumption of a support for Israel's actions, or as a proxy for striking at Israel, but even in places that have been very good to and for Jews, like the UK, Israel's actions have created for some an excuse for hate that those who perpetrate it can try to justify themselves with that wasn't there before

I'm also annoyed because the Israeli government doesn't care they've put that target there. In fact it suits them because it allows them to say 'See, everyone in antisemitic and Jews are only safe in Israel' further entrenching a seperatist, isolationist idea of Israel and Jewry, which is not healthy or sustainable for either.

'What other group gets treated like that?' well, people do also get aggressive and prejudice about Muslims for the actions of extremists, though it's not quite the same.

I think the difference is that with people who have prejudice against Muslims it’s usually based on things that happened in their own country, like terror attacks or similar incidents.

It’s still no excuse for prejudice against a whole group of people, but it’s not just based on something that’s happening in an entirely different country.

That’s why I think comparison with Russia and Ukraine is more apt.
You could also say Putin puts targets on Russians’ backs, yet luckily Russians around the world don’t seem to be criticised (or worse) in the same way Jews are.

Hi Echo, lovely to see you!

With respect, regarding your following point “The fact is, I think Jews are in a unique position as a group scattered across the world who are of the countries we live in, of a religion and also have this unique association with a single country, without having to be or ever having been citizens of it. So part of the difference is not necessarily that loads of people are just dying to be antisemitic, but this really specific identity scenario we have going on.” I perhaps would accept this point but for the historical longstanding existence of antisemitism and its uniquely changeable nature in each generation that it appears. Every generation of antisemite was firmly of the belief that their antisemitism was neither irrational nor unjustified. After all Jews were (insert libel)- communist/ murdered non Jewish children to bake matza with their blood/ greedy capitalists/ subhuman/ refused to convert etc etc).

We were NEVER regarded as innocent victims (barring the short period of European guilt post holocaust, and even there, see pogrom in Poland one year post holocaust for how long that lasted), and hatred towards us was always somehow justifiable. It’s just that as certain justifications became unacceptable as societies changed, the reasons for Jew hate changed with it. In each case the justification for Jew hatred became the newest absolute worst thing of that particular culture and time.

History suggests that at some point antisemitism will rise, so for those that would find a reason to hate us, I can understand that Israel is an easy excuse for them to get behind, but I’d suggest they’d have found their reason regardless. And as always there would be a way to argue that it wasn’t really hatred- it was justifiable.

all this is separate from criticism of Israel and how it has conducted itself. Irrelevant of whether antisemites use the conflict as a fig leaf for justifying antisemitism, Israel has moral and legal obligations, and war crimes should be investigated and prosecuted - as would be expected of any country.

I can see why you would blame the Israeli government for the targets on Jewish backs, but given the above, I don’t agree the blame lies with Israel, I think it belongs firmly with the antisemites.

Yeah, I do think it is more complicated and unpleasant than merely what Israel is doing, but I'm still angry at Israel - most of all of course, for what they did and are doing to the people of Gaza - but also for the impact on the diaspora.

I agree the idea that people saw us as 'innocent' as in that article is a nonsense, we were always tarred with something, whether it was 'killing Jesus', 'losing WWI' or 'controlling the world'. 🙄

@EllaDisenchanted absolutely.

Well said@EllaDisenchanted.

Netanyahu hasn't painted targets on our backs, they've always been there.
I don't believe Jews are only safe in Israel but even places that have been good to and for Jews have historically and repeatedly turned against those Jews and that generally doesn't go very well for us. Lots of places that were good to and for Jews barely have any Jews left in them, if any at all.

I think the majority of Jews recognise this latest incarnation of Jew hatred for what it is, what it's always been and where it leads. The source of antisemitism is antisemites. Anyone claiming the emergence of their latent Jew hatred was triggered by the actions of the Israeli government and is abnormally bothered by the existence of Israel is still and always has been an antisemite.

I’ve lost all faith in the CPS after they ‘forgot’ to submit paperwork for that Bob Vylan terrorism charge. I mean he was caught on camera shouting "Up Hamas" ffs. At dome point incompetence becomes too thin an excuse I think

I agree with a lot of what you have to say, and yet - I can't bring myself to be angry with Israel as a country or indeed with Israeli national identity. I am furious at Bibi and his government, yes absolutely, he is deliberately stoking the flames and many of their actions have been abhorrent.

But I can understand the Israeli perspective a bit better these days. I have family there and they don't give a shit about PR or looking good in the eyes of the world, they just want the rest of us to be safe so that's what they say repeatedly. It's nuts to have people who regularly have to run into a bomb shelter as part of their day to day reach out to ask if you are ok (I don't even live in Manchester!) But there is this deep concern for the diaspora because it's woven into so many of everyone's family stories - things were great for a while in Egypt/Poland/Morocco/wherever and then the pogroms came and the people who survived were the people who were lucky and knew how to get out in time. The Israelis who talk 'helpfully' about how we could always make aliyah dontchaknow are coming from a place of real concern and love at least some of the time I think. That makes it much harder to get upset at them.

I didn't really get it before because I guess I thought of England as being different. Special? That we don't have to worry here. I'm not feeling as confident about that as I used to be. The last thing I want to do is uproot my life and move to Israel, my Hebrew is crap and I get all sweaty in hot weather but there is something that really does deeply comfort me that it is still there for us if we need.

Idk, I'm not being at all coherent sorry, I started crying the other day when reading a Claudi Roden cookbook because so many recipes come from these wonderful communtities that have gone now

Please excuse me for joining in as a non Jewish person who is increasingly alarmed at antisemitism in the UK.
Two things I read yesterday which horrified me:
Firstly, that doctor going to the hearing wearing a necklace with a 7 on it. Why?
She has said the most offensive and outrageous things.
Secondly, the City Professor of Economics whose lecture was disrupted by "activists", covering their faces and rabble rousing. Accusing him of committing genocide and ..threatening to behead him?
He is a brave man.
I don't know how it's got to this stage but it needs to be stopped.

I'm glad that Kemi Badenoch has spoken out about the "activists" threatening the Israeli academic.
Edited to add: I'm no fan of Kemi Badenoch usually!

@TheGoldenApplesOfTheSun sending you love, compassion and understanding.

If history has taught us anything it’s that the ‘pick me’ Jews who make a point of saying how unattached them are to Israel and Jewish life fair just as well as the rest of us when it comes to it and I know firmly where my allegiance lies. Bibi will be replaced and held accountable at some point and that’s good enough for me.

Absolutely agree.

Anti semites are that regardless of what Israel does....it's just that now they feel they can express their hatred under the guise of being just so moral and humanitarian.. trying to make out that they're not anti Semitic, they're just against (genocide,dead babies, starving people, occupation, whatever).

As a non Jew I would say the actions of the Israeli government have not put "targets" on the backs of Jews in the diaspora. On the contrary, Israel is hated precisely because it is a Jewish state. AntiZionism is just the latest justification for AntiSemitism. It's a handy screen to hide behind and attack Jews.

If Israel had not existed as a Jewish State they would have manufactured something else to justify it. Rabbi Sachs was quite right that AS is a mutating virus.

Good points, @YesHesAPlonker .