Mumsnet could do better (part deux)

[stomachameleon]

Ok I have taken the bait because I think it's important we have somewhere to chat and decompress.

There is an awful lot of name changing going on and we must remember that although it should be, this is not a safe space. We are followed here and that is worth considering (especially if you don't want to be deleted)

I am grateful for all the love and support though and I thank each and every one of you. You are all stronger than you know. I wish I had something profound to say but I don't...: this will have to do!

I’m really sad. I want to start a thread purely to record terror attacks within Israel (as opposed to the thread about external attacks) but I don’t think I can cope if it is jumped on. I’m writing it here if that is ok? I know it’s not the right thread, but I just don’t feel up to putting it anywhere else and i can’t let it go unwitnessed.

2 dead so far, the article hasn’t yet released names of the victims (presumably they are informing family first), but from the article it looks like at least one is a 20 year old male.

https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-787312

@EllaDisenchanted Of course it's OK. What a terrible incident and it's shameful you should even feel trepidation about starting a thread about it on the other board, when there must be hundreds of anti-Israel threads now. But, mental health first. X

@EllaDisenchanted I added it to one of the boards before I saw this. I hope you don't mind?

@etmoiandme

And I think it's even worse in the States, especially around liberal and academic circles (you'll probably have more insight about this @MissConductUS?). I don't agree that many antisemites seem attracted to the Labour Party - until 3 years ago yes, but not now. The rabid corners of the Left despise Labour and its leader so they've all effed off elsewhere.

I don't know how the US and UK compare in this regard because I'm not familiar with how bad it is in the UK. Here the academic circles are a subset of the far left, so it was highly visible there. It has also diminished considerably since the Congressional hearings about it. University presidents are on notice that there is a limit to what will be tolerated in the name of free speech, particularly when it impacts the safety of a certain class of students.

Regarding the Labour Party, the WSJ reports that anti-semitism seems to be creeping back in.

Antisemitism Rises Again in the British Labour Party - Keir Starmer seemed to have solved the problem but turned out to have merely suppressed it.

Harvard, MIT Leaders Face Continued Calls to Resign Over Their Antisemitism Stance

I'm not convinced it's creeping back into Labour to be honest, well no more than any other UK Party at the moment and not even close to what happened from 2015. I think the incidents with these 2 individuals in Labour this week are part of a wider problem at the moment

I thought this was a really good article today
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/16/jews-uk-attack-palestine-antisemitism-labour-britain?CMP=share_btn_tw

 I was just going to post that @etmoiandme. Great minds.
Will pop it on one of the other pages too.

It's a really interesting read isn't it Stoma? So much of it resonated with me. I would hazard a guess though that if you post it on the other board certain posters won't be interested in the nuance it throws up when they could just carry on with their binary way of thinking and 'you're all genocide supporters actually'.

Haha - I wrote a very similar version of your post on the antisemitism in Britain thread earlier! Great minds 😀

@0palfrootee Have they waded in on it? I need time away from there again. Freedland just gets it doesn't he, and he writes so well. Probably one of the very few people now that keep me reading the G. But of course he's hated by a certain faction of the left.

This is the bit I always find so hard to articulate

But there is another, more awkward reason why it’s hard, if not impossible, wholly to disentangle antisemitism from Israel. It is that most – not all – Jews feel bound up with the country. They may be enraged by it, they may despair at the direction it has taken these past few months – or even these past 57 years, since the occupation that began as a result of the 1967 war – but they are deeply connected to it. Given the central place of the land of Israel in Judaism’s holiest texts, as ancient as the Jewish people itself, it could hardly be any other way. Even if they don’t have family there, they recognise that Israel is the world’s largest Jewish community, the world’s only Jewish country. More deeply, they hold to the idea that underpins its existence: that after two millennia of endless and deadly persecution, serial expulsions and massacres across Europe and beyond, culminating in the Nazi murder of 6 million Jews, the Jewish people need one place, a haven, where they can govern, and defend, themselves.

@etmoiandme no, tumbleweed. I do have the knack of being a thread killer on here.

And completely agree re that paragraph. In the past I've felt a sinking feeling whenever I hear anything about Israel on the news, especially with Netanyahu running things. I think oh god what have they done now. It's a bit like having an out of control cousin or something - you want them to.behave and you still feel fiercely protective because they are so vulnerable. And I still feel a deep connection with Israel- I've said this out loud before and it sounds so trite but it's true. I think that is probably difficult for others to understand because I can't think of an equivalent for other ethnic groups.

For checks and balances and because I want to make sure it works before they flay me alive on another board!

www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/XvghwXaGiU

@stomachamelon If you're posting that in the other board, Godspeed. x

@0palfrootee I'm coming from the same position really. It's either 'oh fuck what have they done now' or 'oh fuck what are they about to do'. The out of control cousin analogy is exactly it. Such complex feelings for a country I've never been to, nor am I likely to visit but the 'connection' is always there. My feelings towards Israel seems to range from complete apathy and indifference/fiercely protective/absolutely fucking livid.

I've seen that clip when following one of the rabbit holes on here, warms my heart that she was so trusting and they were so gentle.

Then they have to harden their hearts for the brutal side of soldiering , no wonder so many veterans have mental health issues.

I've heard on here that there is awareness and provision of psychological support within Israel, we could learn a lot from that in the UK.

Oh lord the comments...don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I feel conflicted about posting it (and I wish I didn't) due to the reaction I know it will get. Bar this thread everyone is met combativeness and jewsplaining.

There are so many non-combative lurkers, it adds some balance.

I notice there is more understanding between posters who were firmly opposing each other just a few weeks ago, there are still a few that can't do it, some whose names are familiar and some who seem new.

It's a marathon not a sprint.

@quantumbutterfly that's a good point.
Apologies if I sound despondent.

No apology needed. Just the stamina to outlast the lightweights.

Was it wrong that I found the comment about hamas groupies playing the film backward and accusing the IDF of unwrapping the girls bandages funny?

@quantumbutterfly there are things I read that are meant very po faced and make me laugh. Can be because of ignorance, lack of understanding, perceived offence....

Roll with it :)

Thought people might need this interesting.

www.instagram.com/reel/C3ayRUqOZ91/?igsh=NnowcWV2OHB6ZWEw

Very powerful. Thank you.

Hello. If anyone in the UK knows of organisations working across communities could they plop it onto the standing for Israel thread please.
I only know of churches together but any islamic/Jewish charities in UK could be more helpful. Tia

I don’t have first hand experience but board of deputies has this on interfaith
https://bod.org.uk/issue-areas/interfaith/
board of deputies of Jews is a proper organization, I’ve heard of some of the work they do