Mumsnet could do better (part deux)

[stomachameleon]

Ok I have taken the bait because I think it's important we have somewhere to chat and decompress.

There is an awful lot of name changing going on and we must remember that although it should be, this is not a safe space. We are followed here and that is worth considering (especially if you don't want to be deleted)

I am grateful for all the love and support though and I thank each and every one of you. You are all stronger than you know. I wish I had something profound to say but I don't...: this will have to do!

@YetAnotherSpartacus I knew it would be a university. My dh was asked to sign something similar - he and some colleagues ignored it with no comeback. Or are you being asked in person? Easier to ignore an email.

It's not so much how I will be asked although I suspect it will be both but the statement and signatories will be very publicly made available and including to students.

Is that legal?

I honestly don't know!

That's disgraceful. No one should feel pressure to sign anything. In my home country, we would contact the Israeli embassy for help with these kinds of things and they're usually very willing to either help or signpost us to those who can help. Might that be an option?

A similar one was produced a couple of years ago about solidarity with trans students and this wasn't challenged. I wriggled out of signing but this time I think it might be harder.

Might that be an option?

I'm not Jewish.

I'll have to read it when it comes out and make my mind up about whether it is generic enough (recognise hurt and suffering in the region and pray or wish for peace and justice...) or whether it is full of political froth but I suspect the latter.

We have Jewish students.

That shouldn't matter - it's a petition about Israel. Surely it would be of interest to them regardless of your religion. I mean, it's possible they aren't able to help but it won't be because you're not Jewish!

I would normally say see if your union can help you but I suspect they won't be very sympathetic 🙈

I really hope it's something inoffensive enough that you feel happy signing it. That would be by far the best outcome all around.

https://www.standwithus.com/

Or maybe see if these guys can help?

Ha ha re the union :)

I'll have to think about how to approach it. I'd take it to a local Jewish group but I suspect they are overwhelmed as it is and I'm also worried that if I am the only one speaking out (likely) then it will be traced to me.

Oh universities are horrendous for these statements and petitions now, which often end up being an 'open letter' plastered all over the internet and if you don't sign you end up under similar (if not worse) scrutiny from the wider public not just colleagues and students. Damned if you do etc etc.

Stand with us sound great. I'll definitely keep them in mind, thanks. I guess too that after it is published it will be fairly open and so anyone could report it. I only found out yesterday and I'm still thinking it through.

I think what really bothers me is that I know it will be written by people with a lot of zeal but with very little historical/political understanding and also who are blind to antisemitism.

It's very tricky and I agree that it's presented in a similar way to trans solidarity. Other issues aren't as polarising for some reason. I work in HE too (I'm PS not academic) and generally get by by keeping my head down. I suppose you could give a vague, non-committal answer (eg I'll look at it later, thanks) if asked directly. Or say that you prefer not to get involved in that kind of thing in the workplace. Takes a lot of bravery to stand up to some of these people though. I've really wanted to report some of the posts I've seen on this issue by various SU clubs which have sailed pretty close to the wind when it comes to glorifying Hamas, but am too cowardly and need my job.

Honestly, just do what is right for you. I'm sure lots of people will disagree with me but if you feel like you don't really have a choice but to sign it, just do it. You can then email a relevant organisation for help and explain the situation to them and see what can be done retrospectively.

It's one thing being asked to sign these things when you have others who will back you up and help you fight your corner. It's an entirely different thing when you're essentially being intimidated (/threatened with being outed) and you don't have any support. Not everyone is willing or able to take on these fights on their own, and I completely get it.

I know that you have Jewish students which makes it more complicated, but I guess another alternative would be to speak to them? See if they can get enough backing from UJS or something to get the university to ensure the wording isn't offensive or inflammatory?

@YetAnotherSpartacus is there a Jewish student chaplain? If yes I’d speak to them because it will affect the Jewish students. If there isn’t, depending on the city there may be a rabbi of the community who also looks after the Jewish students.

you don’t have to do anything by the way, and if it feels safer to sign, then do so. I agree with humdingerydoo, safety first.

I won't sign it unless I agree with it. My dilemma is whether I say something or stay silent.

I'll wait until I see it.

The other dilemma is that we have staff and students with ties to Palestine. Both these and the Jewish students (and no doubt staff) will be caught in any crossfire if it ignites.

My dilemma with reporting to a Jewish individual (Rabbi) or group is that it makes it their problem because they are Jewish whereas it should be my problem as well. It feels like burdening the already burdened.

@YetAnotherSpartacus I understand what you're saying but you would only be contacting a rabbi or Jewish organisation because of your concern for how it affects the Jewish students.

Anyway, I hope it turns out to be a non-issue by you not having a problem with signing it. Please keep us updated if you feel that you can without it being too outing.

Good luck! 💐 And have a lovely weekend!

I hear that.

you would only be contacting a rabbi or Jewish organisation because of your concern for how it affects the Jewish students.

That's true. Thank you for pointing that out.

I'll keep you updated if I can do so without being outing.

Thank you for letting me vent.

Sorry pressed send too soon . Can’t speak for individual rabbis of course, but I find when non Jewish people reach out , it feels less isolating, so you flagging the issue would make me feel like we’re not alone tackling things.

We don’t have a thread recording terror attacks in Israel do we? There was a shooting not long ago at a bus stop in the south. One passed away so far. 💔

Can’t speak for individual rabbis of course, but I find when non Jewish people reach out , it feels less isolating, so you flagging the issue would make me feel like we’re not alone tackling things.

That makes sense too. Thank you.

We don’t have a thread recording terror attacks in Israel do we? There was a shooting not long ago at a bus stop in the south. One passed away so far. 💔