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Jewish Mumsnetters

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Mumsnet could do better (part deux)

1000 replies

stomachameleon · 02/01/2024 22:11

Ok I have taken the bait because I think it's important we have somewhere to chat and decompress.

There is an awful lot of name changing going on and we must remember that although it should be, this is not a safe space. We are followed here and that is worth considering (especially if you don't want to be deleted)

I am grateful for all the love and support though and I thank each and every one of you. You are all stronger than you know. I wish I had something profound to say but I don't...: this will have to do!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Humdingerydoo · 14/02/2024 23:07

noblegiraffe · 14/02/2024 23:04

Bit late for this, but Jeremy sends his love ❤️

It's never too late for some Corbyn love. With Corbyn, every day is Valentines Day ❤️❤️❤️

etmoiandme · 14/02/2024 23:09

Thought Giraffe was never going to turn up but it was worth the wait!

Corbs and kisses everyone ❤❤

stomachamelon · 14/02/2024 23:10

Boob slap to all :)

25milesfromhome · 14/02/2024 23:46

😆

0palfrootee · 15/02/2024 06:35

stomachamelon · 14/02/2024 23:10

Boob slap to all :)

😂

MissConductUS · 15/02/2024 17:57

I saw this opinion piece in The Telegraph today. It's about the overall decline in British society in the last twenty years or so, but it particularly calls out the recent anti-semitism. I think it'll be behind a paywall, so I'll copy and paste that part. It's very forthright. It's very good to see this so clearly articulated in the media.

Yet while all of these instances of national enfeeblement are tragic, they pale in comparison with the most terrifying regression of them all. We thought that we had progressed decisively as a society, that we had vanquished racism and religious discrimination, that the institutions of our liberal state would prevent a minority from facing persecution, and that our ruling class would never allow any subset of the population to be openly hated and othered again.

How wrong we were. That anti-Semitism, the oldest of hatreds, is back on the streets and screens of Britain, is terrifying enough; but the fact that this explosion of prejudice is being treated in such a cavalier fashion by the authorities and the mainstream broadcast media – and in some cases is even being rationalised and normalised – is a catastrophic development that casts doubt about Britain’s very future.

This is the worst moment for Britain’s Jews since the pogroms that disgraced Leeds, Liverpool and Manchester in the summer of 1947. The double-standards, the never ending “pro-Palestine” marches that are inevitably marred by egregious, open, anti-Semitism and evil slogans, the bullying, the victim blaming, the spreading of fake news, the wilful, blatant lies and denialism of Hamas’s atrocities, the obsessive interest in, and delegitimisation, of Israel, a state that accounts for just 0.25 per cent of the Middle East’s landmass, is its only multi-religious democracy and which is fighting for survival against neighbours that reject its very existence, stink of a replay of the 1930s.

The return of anti-Semitism is not just an existential threat to Britain’s tiny, 292,000-strong Jewish community, but a damning indictment of a Britain that is regressing into darkness. As Lord Sacks put it in 2016, “the hate that begins with Jews never ends with Jews … the appearance of anti-Semitism in a culture is the first symptom of a disease, the early warning sign of collective breakdown.”

Already a non-Jewish MP has resigned out of fear for his own safety. Traditional British democratic norms are being upended by far-Left and Islamist extremists. Cranks, conspiracy theorists and racists appear to have entered mainstream politics in significant numbers, and many seem attracted by the Labour Party.
Anti-Semites never just target Jews. They are full-service, equal opportunity bigots who oppress and impoverish and destroy all that they touch, and despise freedom and human flourishing.

Starmer is genuinely committed to fighting anti-Semitism, but he has proved unforgivably slow in his attempts at rooting out prejudice in recent days. He rightly purged the Corbynites, but the rot in his party evidently goes far deeper, having contaminated even “centrist” or “Right-wing” circles. Some in his party are seeking votes among far-Left and Islamist extremists: a morally righteous party would announce that they are not interested in such voters, and terminate all relevant candidates, even if such a stance costs them power.

In the absence of such a step, we face the prospect of many new Labour MPs being, at the very least, soft on anti-Semitism. The Tories have failed, but Labour will be infinitely worse. Britain is hanging on by a thread.

For the first time in my life, I’m now beginning to think Britain is finished The country’s self-image as tolerant, decent and hard-working is being smashed. It’s only going to get worse

For the first time in my life, I’m now beginning to think Britain is finished

The country’s self-image as tolerant, decent and hard-working is being smashed. It’s only going to get worse

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/14/for-the-first-time-im-beginning-to-think-britain-is-finishe/

0palfrootee · 15/02/2024 18:14

That's very interesting, thank you for sharing. I confess i found the title a little hysterical and I haven't read the whole article, but I definitely agree with the excerpt you have shared. I sure as heck wouldn't dare post such an article on the Conflict in the ME boards which probably tells you all you need to know. Unfortunately I don't think this new wave of AS is limited to the UK.

Although my Jewish family are/ were all based in London, some of them were briefly in Manchester in the late 40s and I had no idea about the events referred to in the summer of 1947 - presumably linked to the British fascist movement. I will look that up.

ETA I don't 100% agree with what they say about the Labour Party. The way they dealt with the Rochdale candidate was shambolic but they are streets ahead of where they were under Corbyn.

MissConductUS · 15/02/2024 19:58

@0palfrootee, it's certainly not limited to the UK. I've been shocked by the extent of it in the US as well.

The rest of the opinion piece was primarily about economic conditions, the dole, taxes, the poor state of the NHS, etc. I can copy and paste the first part if you're interested.

I agree that this would cause heads to explode on the Conflict in the ME board. I'm not brave enough to post it there.

BeretInParis · 15/02/2024 19:59

I've name changed but you might recognise my old based user name that talked about a kneidlach alternative.

@MissConductUS that quote almost made me cry. It's spot on. I am very frightened at the moment for the future of the UK. And the safety of Jews living in it.

etmoiandme · 15/02/2024 20:13

0palfrootee · 15/02/2024 18:14

That's very interesting, thank you for sharing. I confess i found the title a little hysterical and I haven't read the whole article, but I definitely agree with the excerpt you have shared. I sure as heck wouldn't dare post such an article on the Conflict in the ME boards which probably tells you all you need to know. Unfortunately I don't think this new wave of AS is limited to the UK.

Although my Jewish family are/ were all based in London, some of them were briefly in Manchester in the late 40s and I had no idea about the events referred to in the summer of 1947 - presumably linked to the British fascist movement. I will look that up.

ETA I don't 100% agree with what they say about the Labour Party. The way they dealt with the Rochdale candidate was shambolic but they are streets ahead of where they were under Corbyn.

Edited

I'm pretty much of similar opinion to you. I've only really skimmed it but it does have hysterical overtones through the whole article actually (maybe that says more about me trying to pretend the threat isn't as real as it is). It also seems to be portraying the rise of 'accepted' antisemitism as being peculiar to Britain. With family in France I can say this is very much not the case! And I think it's even worse in the States, especially around liberal and academic circles (you'll probably have more insight about this @MissConductUS?). I don't agree that many antisemites seem attracted to the Labour Party - until 3 years ago yes, but not now. The rabid corners of the Left despise Labour and its leader so they've all effed off elsewhere. I've been surprised though at some people on the 'soft left', which does have me worried. But there's a load of points in the article that is spot on.

And to echo @0palfrootee, please don't anyone post it in the M.E. section! It's quite traumatic over there for Jews. Thanks for sharing it though - as a lefty I'd love to see a similar piece in the Guardian, but that won't happen sadly.

stomachamelon · 15/02/2024 20:17

@MissConductUS that article Shock

0palfrootee · 15/02/2024 20:50

https://www.newstatesman.com/long-reads/2012/05/britains-last-anti-jewish-riots

Interesting article about the anti Jewish riots in Britain in 1947, referred to in passing in the article shared by Missconduct above. I had no idea about this! Imagine fleeing Germany or Poland as a Jewish refugee and just a few years later experiencing this. I'd assumed it was stirred up by the British fascist party but in this case it seems to have been the Express...

Britain’s last anti-Jewish riots

Why have the 1947 riots been forgotten?

https://www.newstatesman.com/long-reads/2012/05/britains-last-anti-jewish-riots

0palfrootee · 16/02/2024 07:42

There is a thread in politics about Labour and antisemitism- the tone is notably more balanced than on the ME board. I've noticed at least one regular who has turned up with their usual rhetoric and been given fairly short shrift. It's a nice reminder that moderate, balanced views still exist out there.

Humdingerydoo · 16/02/2024 08:58

So apparently, as long as you have a big enough social media following you can say or do whatever you want because all you need to do after the fact is ask your followers to please send in their own witness testimonies denying the accusations. It doesn't matter if they were actual witnesses or not, or if they could hear what was being said, because all you need to do is cast enough doubt for others to then start spreading the word and then voila, you're onto a winner!

What a weird, weird world we live in.

Humdingerydoo · 16/02/2024 08:59

@0palfrootee yes the board is by no means a true representation of people out there but it's still scary that people like that exist and are allowed to use the internet

Humdingerydoo · 16/02/2024 09:06

Sorry, a lot of the times I see things on the other board that really piss me off but I just can't be bothered getting into an argument with people who aren't actually going to listen to what I'm saying anyway, so I vent on here instead. I'll try to stop though as it's really quite annoying!

quantumbutterfly · 16/02/2024 09:07

Humdingerydoo · 16/02/2024 08:58

So apparently, as long as you have a big enough social media following you can say or do whatever you want because all you need to do after the fact is ask your followers to please send in their own witness testimonies denying the accusations. It doesn't matter if they were actual witnesses or not, or if they could hear what was being said, because all you need to do is cast enough doubt for others to then start spreading the word and then voila, you're onto a winner!

What a weird, weird world we live in.

Hello, (not stalking you-just looking at threads I'm on Halo), isn't there some issue with discussing current or potentially current cases on social media that creates an action for contempt of court?

Not an expert obviously or I'd know.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 16/02/2024 09:29

I'm soon going to be asked to sign a statement about events that I strongly suspect will be not something I want to sign.

etmoiandme · 16/02/2024 09:37

0palfrootee · 16/02/2024 07:42

There is a thread in politics about Labour and antisemitism- the tone is notably more balanced than on the ME board. I've noticed at least one regular who has turned up with their usual rhetoric and been given fairly short shrift. It's a nice reminder that moderate, balanced views still exist out there.

Yes I've seen this a lot. When they lose their way from the ME board and try to drop their frothing hostility towards Jews (or conspiracies) into a thread but don't have their gang of clapping seals to back them up, they tend to get their arse handed to them. See it too when they turn up to the feminism boards.

etmoiandme · 16/02/2024 09:37

@Humdingerydoo Vent away!

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2024 09:40

YetAnotherSpartacus · 16/02/2024 09:29

I'm soon going to be asked to sign a statement about events that I strongly suspect will be not something I want to sign.

What sort of events?

0palfrootee · 16/02/2024 10:13

@Humdingerydoo it's not annoying at all. I really feel this is a safe space for venting/ sharing relevant stuff/ general chit chat (not to mention the naughty JC pics 😱)

And yes the mental gymnastics to absolve that individual of AS are a thing to behold. I stayed away from those threads for a while (style & beauty and the litter tray are what I'm here for really 😉) and felt a lot better for it. We know those views are out there but my feeling is that there's no need to rub our own noses in it. We won't change anyone's views and I feel safe to assume that there are plenty of people looking at the comments and seeing them for what they are.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 16/02/2024 10:15

I was being deliberately vague but I think it will be phrased something like "the genocide in Palestine and so-on". :(

YetAnotherSpartacus · 16/02/2024 10:16

At work. I'm a university lecturer.

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2024 10:18

Oh like a statement of solidarity sort of thing?

That’s really difficult. I instinctively reject cult thinking and behaviour so flags make me uncomfortable too, regardless of affiliation.

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