Mumsnet is getting worse

[LondonMummer]

Seriously. Is it the same few people just name changing or is it really this toxic in the UK? There is so much poisonous Jewish hatred on here. I'm not talking hatred of Israel, just vile antisemitism on so many posts now.

I truly think I have to step away before I lose faith in humanity. Why does MN seem to attract so many hateful posters? Maybe it's the anonymity.

I can't keep calling it out. Im exhausted and actually deeply disturbed by it now.

No I don't- they're just a very angry noisy minority imo. Lots of sock puppetry happening too.

In other news, Happy Chanukah to the lovely MN Jewish community! This atheist is thinking of you & wishing you all the best X.

Same here. If you look, it's the same names over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again... and there is absolutely no point engaging with them. I've stopped bothering. I have to switch off my anger when they are blatantly crude and dismissive. To be honest, I've stopped even looking at the threads. Pointless echo chamber with dogmatic morons.

No, I don't think it is the outlook of the majority (I just posted on another thread about this). In my day-to-day interactions, I'm not hearing any of it and in fact I am hearing quite a bit of pushback against the protests for instance (by non Jews) and also the very loud and visible hate towards Jews online.

But it depends what way this goes. Slogans and words stick - so the rancid antisemitism we're seeing from some groups may possibly become mainstream. Or it may continue to just turn people off, especially the more blatant it's becoming.

I'd also add, I have family in France and antisemitism has been a lot worse (and more violent) there over the last 10 years or so, way more than the UK so I've been quite alert to it for some time. But I believe there's increasing pushback against it now so possibly a bit of a sea change there. That may happen here too - it may get worse (which I think it will) before it gets better though. I actually thought the antisemitic climate of the Corbyn period was becoming a distant memory before October 2023. Sadly this has invigorated it. But the majority were turned off then and they will be again.

Hmm I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure antisemitism is becoming mainstream. It's now eg becoming perfectly acceptable to call the IDF terrorists, and to call anyone who supports Israel's right to defend itself a Zionist (and using the word as though it's some kind of curse word).

Hamas have always led a very good propaganda war, and they're definitely winning this one. I feel like Israel have accepted this and therefore aren't even trying to explain themselves and instead just do whatever they feel they need to do, without wasting time on winning people over. I think the consequences of this will be quite disastrous for Israelis and Jews outside of Israel.

I think part of the problem is that "the other side" are louder. So, so much louder. It's scary. And anything we say, they turn around and use against us. We say "Hamas' actions are attempted genocide" and they, a few days later, start calling anyone who supports Israel "genociders". We say "they literally livestreamed themselves slaughtering people and people still don't believe it happened" and a week later "the IDF are livestreaming themselves committing genocide and people still don't believe it's happening". We say "release the hostages" and all of a sudden every single Palestinian prisoner in Israel is a hostage too.

I'm finding it all incredibly stressful, and I'm not getting involved anywhere near as much as I used to as a result.

I hope not I really do. I do think it’s particularly bad at the moment on that board though. I had to defend being called a psychopath with no morals or human feeling yesterday…. It wasn’t a direct attack more a general observation on anyone who said anything remotely pro Israeli.

@Humdingerydoo It is incredibly stressful isn't it? My fear is, it's going to take something truly terrible to happen here first before some of 'the majority' sit up and take notice.

@etmoiandme I have just spent Ages and a snotty email to Mumsnet to work out the 'March' thread is full!
Perhaps we can come up with another.
I do think ignoring those who come in bad faith on threads and attempt to cause problems is the way forward. Some pop up only for that reason 

@Humdingerydoo well said.

Swapped over to the old rise in antisemitism thread. For now anyway it still has lots of room and won't attach idiots like a new thread would

However if someone wants to carefully think about a new title for a thread, so as not to spend half the thread defending or explaining the title then set it up. That is good.

You wrote a snotty email to mumsnet because you didn't realise the thread ended

Love it 😂

I wonder if we should keep a new thread to JMumsnetters? I posted on one before and I had completely forgotten it was on the main M.E. board so obviously I got someone diving in to completely misrepresent what I was saying. Downside being, there's little point (apart from the supportive environment) just discussing antisemitism and the marches amongst ourselves only.

You wrote a snotty email to mumsnet because you didn't realise the thread ended

😂😂😂 Amazing @Trulywonderful @Stomacharmeleon

id keep support on the Jewish board, but a thread recording anti semitic incidents on ME board and separate the two. I agree with @etmoiandme - we know anti semitism happens, the small day to day stuff doesn’t even register or get reported but the bigger stuff needs to be recorded publicly

I do think an antisemitism thread on this board would be good. So people can talk to like minded individuals.

However I think we need an ongoing thread about antisemitism on the conflict board too. It is educational for people to see posts about antisemitism and that board needs it. Plus some posters deny there is a problem, so adding recent links and posts is important too

Plus every time a useful idiot posts to try and discredit a post or deny antisemitism of something in a link it proves our point. I deliberately try to only post the most obvious antisemitism that the general public will recognise or at least recognise once it is explained to them. This way if anyone jumps on it and denies it all mumsnetters reading will see the user for what they are.

However I think we need an ongoing thread about antisemitism on the conflict board too. It is educational for people to see posts about antisemitism and that board needs it. Plus some posters deny there is a problem, so adding recent links and posts is important too

Yes, I think this is probably right actually.

@EllaDisenchanted I haven't been on as much recently so probably haven't been keeping up with your posts - but just to say I hope you and your family are doing OK just now.

@Trulywonderful @etmoiandme let's just say I had my 'collar felt' last week so I was wondering if I had been banned :)

https://www.change.org/p/demand-resignation-of-upenn-president

I'm not sure where else to put this as the other thread is full but just saw there was a violent anti-Semitic attack in London:

https://twitter.com/JakeWSimons/status/1733137847173947835

That's beyond awful. I hope they can identify those fuckers from the CCTV. How is this happening in our country.

Just as an aside (but probably more appropriate for the FWR board) it is maddening when male posters (the X poster, not you @SomeCatFromJapan ) accuse passers-by of not stepping in. There are all sorts of reasons why female passers-by in particular do not step in. Many men simply do not comprehend the different risks for women. And I also challenge him that "passers-by ignore the whole thing". A group clearly did intervene at the end, thank god.

I need to believe that most people really do care. Please, please let this poor woman be ok.

I completely agree with you re. the stepping in. There are many reasons. Even for men, for instance they might be frightened if they intervene when it's women, that they will be the ones arrested?

I hope the lady is ok 😔

In a slight change of topic - I'm not sure how to feel about a Chanukah present we got for one of our kids. It's a leapfrog globe thing which teaches them about the world including some landmarks. The landmark for Israel - Al Aqsa mosque, and then a brief mention of the "wailing wall" in passing. Unsurprisingly, the information is from the BBC. I'm so tempted to return it 🙈 It's the wailing wall bit that really got to me - they couldn't even find it in themselves to call it the Western Wall?!

Please feel free to tell me if I'm being overly sensitive and ridiculous 🙃

If you feel something is inappropriate or deliberately iffy take it back is my attitude

Just decide how strongly you feel about this and if the child will mind you changing it for something else

NASTY. The poor woman, hope she is OK.

I will pop this for you on the rise in antisemitism thread for now. Then at least a few more people will be aware

This may (or may not) resonate with some of you

https://twitter.com/JewishNewsUK/status/1733179724417945917

Really interesting article @etmoiandme thanks for sharing.

I watched the Baddiel documentary a couple of weeks ago, having read his book last year. I wondered while watching whether his views on Israel have now changed. Certainly my own views have taken a total u-turn, having been what the writer of that article would describe as a Baddiel fence-sitter, and I've been amazed at the emotional connection I feel with Israelis post 7th Oct. Sounds cringe to type this but i feel people on this board will understand.

Re Baddiel himself - I suppose events worldwide following 7th Oct could not be clearer illustrations of #jewsdontcount.

Having earnestly written essays about the Treaty of Versailles etc as a history student back in the day, trying to understand how the Holocaust could have happened, I now see it more clearly than ever. I thought the scales had fallen from my eyes in the Corbyn era but now see that that was nothing. Scratch the surface and you find that large numbers of people just hate Jews. It really is as simple as that, and a rude awakening for atheist part-ethnically Jewish people like me.