IVF Scotland - thread 6

[IVFlife]

That last thread filled up quickly without us noticing. So here is a new one for Scotland.

@IVFlife huge congrats!! So exciting! Enjoy this feeling 🥰🥰

@Nosejug congrats on being PUPO! Try not to get too hung up on the grading, I know it's easy to say but they wouldn't have transferred if they didn't think it could be viable. Keeping everything crossed for you!

I've just had a failed June transfer (fresh)

I'm 29, my DH is mid 30s. We've got a DC who is 2 and was conceived first month of trying. TTC for just over a year and just had our first IVF privately.
Results: 13 eggs retrieved, 8 mature, 1x day 5 embryo, 2x day 6 embryos. None euploid.

Those sound like terrible results for my age?! AMH is 13 so not terrible. A million investigations have been done on myself and DH (hormone profile, hycosy, follicle counts, scans, semel analysis... to name a few), no issues found at all.

Has anyone had a similar case? Do we need to adjust the protocol? Change clinic? What questions would you ask to the doctor?

@strtng hey 👋 I wouldn’t say these results are terrible tbh! Sorry that your fresh transfer didn’t work 😢 For my very first ivf cycle I had 14 eggs retrieved and only had two embryos. Both of these resulted in miscarriages and this was when I was 27! I think the majority of people who go through fertility treatment unfortunately need to do more than one round of ivf to get that perfect embryo combination which makes a baby! We are unexplained infertility as well (although not secondary as never managed to conceive naturally before). Fertility treatment is just a big shitty rollercoaster tbh! xx

@Ellenn thank you so much for your response!!
And did you manage to have a rainbow baby after that or any euploid embryos (did you test?) ? What made the difference?

I'm wondering if the protocol isn't suitable for me? Or if egg quality is just terrible?

Although, my husband and I both watch what we are and drink so so much - both have stopped eating red meat, stopped drinking, I’ve effectively given up any added sugar and pasta / rice / carbs (to the extent that’s feasible - I still eat fruit here and there for example). I’ve read “it starts with the egg” and I take my prenatal, additional vitamin d and ubiquinol… not sure what else to do

@strtng on my second round we were very lucky and ended up with 8 embryos from 24 eggs. The first transfer was another miscarriage and then the second transfer (was a double) ended up sticking around and due one baby in October ☺️

we didn’t do any genetic testing although I did query it after having the 3 miscarriages when at my age I should be getting high quality embryos. In the end it has taken 5 embryos (all graded excellent although not convinced this means much!) to make this one baby for me. So I actually think (for me anyway) it’s a numbers game ie. Just trying to find that right embryo! Unfortunately there are always people on the other side of the statistics which can make it challenging 😥 it’s hard not to compare yourself to others who manage to get a baby first transfer.

my clinic told me on my first round their optimal number of eggs collected is between 12-15 as they find at this number you should get a couple of embryos and should be good quality. Of course that doesn’t always correlate with a baby though! Worthwhile discussing with your doctor though to see if they have any suggestions but it sounds like you are on it 💪 for me personally I did try everything possible I could but in the end I found it easier to cope with all the treatment and shitty outcomes by giving myself some slack as well (which sometimes involves chocolate 🤤🙈) it’s such a long gruelling process that I wish none of us had to go through! xx

@Ellenn again, thanks so much for a thorough response! Do you know if they changed your protocol between first and second round at all?

@strtng i had exactly the same stimulation drugs and protocol for both rounds ☺️ don’t think I really did anything different to be honest and for me it came down to a better batch of eggs that month. So don’t loose hope that a second round you could see very different results from the first 🤞

would definitely recommend making sure you seek support/or trying out a counselling session that your clinic should offer. It’s taken us over 4 yrs to get this close to having a baby (although we did have to TTC for 2 yrs before starting fertility treatment.) so it can be a long process! Also everyone here can be super helpful and lovely I’ve found when you are needed time to rant/or bounce ideas/ask questions! There are a fair few of us with all different stories/backgrounds and outcomes ☺️ xx

@Ellenn thank you!! Best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy ☺️
I'll have a look into counselling options that my clinic offers 👀 and yes I'm super new to MN but I've joined a few threads and everyone seems lovely 🥰

@IVFlife Congratulations! How are you feeling?

@Nosejug How are you doing? Hope you had a good weekend and recovery from the new job (it sounds exhausting!).

@strtng Welcome to the thread :) Also said hi on the sibling round thread, but just to say, totally agree with @Ellenn that a lot of it is a numbers game, and some cycles can be better than others.

@Ellenn @2mumlife I've read a lot about how changing protocol could help, to make more eggs mature of the ones retrieved, to improve the quality of the ones retrieved... but the thing is I don't know HOW. And I understand I should ask my fertility consultant what he would change in my next protocol but I don't know what the correct answer from him would be because I'm not a fertility consultant myself? For example he could say "well give you more Gonal" or "we'd give you less Menopur" and I'd have no clue whether that's the wrong decision or the right one, all I can do is nod!

@strtng I also just joined Mumsnet from needing ivf support, this group has been very helpful like others have said, lots of information and perspective to be found! It's been a long journey to get to this moment for me (I'm in my first two week wait). Welcome :)

@2mumlife I'm alright, the busy is kinda fun busy, I work as a painter and it's pretty therapeutic (when I'm doing a good job anyway). The other side of it is that I kind of feel I'd know by now if big changes were happening in my body. I won't know till I know but I'm wary of how it will affect me and my partner. He admitted this morning that he woke up swimming in anxiety for Friday (test day) :( I've tried to tell him that we'll be ok, but he does a lot less mental prep than me (he has very little free time right now anyway).

@Nosejug If it makes you feel better, my BFP with my DD, by the time we got to test day, I didn't actually want to test. I was fairly convinced it would be a negative again, and I just didn't want to see another negative test to be honest. I think its generally quite unrealistic to expect some great epiphany that its worked! Everyone symptom spots, but there are plenty stories of people with all the symptoms with a BFN, and vice versa those with no symptoms yet and a BFP. My pregnancy symptoms didn't start until after my BFP with DD (and conversely, I had an implantation bleed on my CP). Don't read anything in to the presence of absence of symptoms so early on :) Keeping everything crossed for Friday!

Aw thanks @2mumlife it does help to read that. I've been trying to tell myself but my hopes aren't high. Still, the whole process (obvs skewed by being on the right side of testing day) has been much better than I thought. We had basically been coached to have such low expectations that even getting this far seems unexpected. :)

@strtng that doesn't sound too bad. I think that realistically most people don't get top results from IVF, regardless of age. It's just those who end up with lots frozen stick in your mind because that's the goal. I was 31 on my first round with an AMH of 16, and got 8 eggs, 2 fertilised and only 1 viable for transfer which ended in a chemical pregnancy. 7 eggs the second cycle, same age, 3 fertilised, 1 suitable for transfer which resulted in my boy. Sibling round when I was 33, my AMH was 12 and I got 10 eggs, 5 fertilised and again only 1 viable for transfer which resulted in my girl.

Are you doing IVF or ICSI? Sperm fragmentation might be worth testing. My husband had a low sperm count anyway, but we added impryl into his vitamins for our siblings round and I think it made a difference - it was the best quality embryo we had and she stuck first time. The clinic switched me from menopur to gonal F after my first cycle and increased the dosage of stims each time, both of which helped I think.

I'm a bit of an anxious mess. I stupidly did another test this morning and I was hoping for something super dark even though I'm only 7dp5dt but it was only slightly darker than one 2 days ago and today was fmu. But then when I tested at first the urine was very dark even though was afternoon and I dipped it in a tub. Where as today I tried to wee on it and probably missed a bit.

So I'm trying to convince myself to ignore my worrg with that.

I still have lower back pain and tender boobs but the nausea goes away for ages at a time which also worries me.

I'm just a ball of worry. But then a year ago I would be so jealous of me today! I need the tests to be away from me!!! We are on holiday now until Thursday so that's going to stop my ability to test. But then we have OTD on Sunday so need to test for the clinic then and I'm terrified.

Just IVF, no ICSI! My husband had borderline sperm a year ago, I got him tested for a sperm analysis within 2mo of failed ttc naturally (I guess I expected it to happen first month like it did for our first child) and he had excellent count, decent motility and borderline morphology. Now, with Impryl, l-carnatine, omega 3 and I think vitamin d, it's excellent count, excellent motility and decent morphology. Doctor describes it as one of the best sperm samples he's seen in terms of count and motility. DNA fragmentation is also well within the norm.

I took gonal AND menopur... not sure why?

Top in both photos is 2 days ago and bottom in both photos is this morning. We've also had a digital positive though.

Definitely darker!!! How many dpt?

Top photos are 5dp5dt bottom is 7pd5dt

I went back and looked at it a few hours later (stupid) and it had gone which made me anxious. But at the time you are supposed to check it that's how the photo was. Which is why you should throw them away and not look at them hours later I guess!!!!!!!!!

@IVFlife try not to worry, your HCG will still be low at this point so you will get a light result. Even getting a positive at 5dp is amazing - I first tested at 6dp and got barely a faint line, like it was so, so faint. Have you got any pink dye tests? They're meant to be more sensitive. I found testing totally took over my mind, on test day I was CONVINCED I was having a chemical and spent the next few days devastated until the lines darkened. Shes currently lying sleeping on my chest. I only tested once after that, one week later, then stopped altogether because it wasn't helping my anxiety.

@IVFlife the nausea thing, I only just read yesterday, is a separate nausea thing from morning sickness. It said it was to do with current changes in hormones. I had always thought it was morning sickness starting early.

Is Thursday your official test day? The concentration of hgc could be affected by so many things, how much salt was in your diet, how much you'd drank, how hot you'd been. I'd say you def can't count it as controlled testing unless you were consuming the exact same amounts of everything and staying at a stable temp and testing in a cup and at the exact same time of day etc... so many variables that could account for darker/lighter lines. That's what I'd be telling myself in your shoes, though I can imagine not listening to myself. Hope some time off will help you feel better x

I did 2 pink dye tests on 5dp5dt and came up 2 faint pink lines. Not so faint you need to hold them in a crazy way to see them but more just much paler pink than the control but just as thick as control.

My counsellor really challenged me on the early testing yesterday and said she's seen people really need the reassurance from tests and then scans and she says it only ever satisfies a need in that moment and then the urge comes back. I agree with that to an extent. I think because I know the clinic don't accept until OTD and that I'm going to HAVE to test again it's hard.

I did the online referral to NHS for midwife last night as that made it feel more real and also just wanted it properly on my personal records. I don't know if I was supposed to while still under private clinic but it said about a booing appointment at 8 weeks and the NHS website literally says "never too early to register with us" I figure if the private clinic don't discharge us until after scan then that's a while.

@itsmschanandlerbong also thanks for that very helpful to hear.

@Nosejug OTD is Sunday - 13 days from transfer cos was a FET apparently

@IVFlife Oh love...and this is why I always say testing early doesn't help! I think its a really good thing if you can get away on holiday and just stop testing, because you're going to drive yourself insane. IF you're going to test early (and I really recommend not doing it!) use the "First response early result" pregnancy tests. If any test is going to pick up hcg they are (I was still getting a line on these with my chemical pregnancy even when my blood hcg was like 5 or something stupidly low). Clear Blue are notorious for being awful with evap lines etc so honestly, I'd really avoid these.

Also, you need to remember - line progression means nothing! Particularly this early on there are a million different variables that can change how the test looks (time of day, urine concentration, how long you dipped for etc etc etc etc etc). Not to mention that 'eyeballing' if a line is darker is really not accurate. Please try not to get yourself drawn into the vicious cycle of testing and testing and testing. I know you want the reassurance its really happening, but these tests are not going to reassure you, and they aren't going to change to outcome whatever that's going to be.

You can register with the midwife whenever you want. I didn't register until after my viability scan with DD as I didn't want to have to cancel an appointment if pregnancy didn't progress etc, but its very much personal choice. I wouldn't worry about booking in appointment (or 12 week/dating scan for that matter) potentially being done a bit later, it really doesn't matter.

Step away from the tests and try to go and enjoy your holiday. Keeping everything crossed for you for OTD