ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 8

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @kerrym87 @Janefx40 @seven201 @thislittlebird @Spin101 @Enfys23
@CailinInUK @BewilderedBee @Loz2467 @Lori2022 @VenusStarr @clhiu @Faithhopelove83 @APSR @ChickenT2b @Mina209 @IVF22 @Lizzybeth1988 @AM08 @Fluffykins33 @Sar1010

Continued in from thread 7 :)

I’ve just had the follow-up call with my consultant and she walked me through the possible reason for this cycle failure, which made me sort of skeptical of PGS now.
She was very disappointed as expected that based on everything when knew, this would be a success.
One thing she told me in particular, which I never heard before and understand is a rather new theory is this: if a woman becomes easily pregnant with abnormal embryos it may be because her endometrium is extra receptive and accepts anything (as I was led to believe mine was) or because her endometrium favours abnormal embryos, but rejects normal ones 🤯🤯🤯. There are currently no tests to establish this, but if it is a valid theory and that was to be my problem, then I’m absolutely doomed, there would be nothing at all except for maybe PGS with a surrogate, that would ever allow me to have a baby. Has anyone else on here heard about this theory before?

@2021ivfagain even with an access package we literally have no money for at least a few months to do ivf. Also I did look into their packages with CRGH before starting this round of treatment and seems for women my age they just offer fresh cycles, which are not what I need because of the PGT-A testing. I think right now I feel motivated enough to keep going naturally again and then we’ll see what happens in a few months. I’m aware I’m probably facing the prospect of more MC going down that route, but have no other option at the moment and I don’t want to waste any eggs.

Thanks for all advice on DHEA. Sounds like it may be more detrimental to my case, but I may ask my CRGH consultant for her opinion and could just have bloods and prescription done through her instead to see if worth it. I should have asked her on the call now, but I was a little overwhelmed by the idea that my endometrium may just point blank reject good embryos 🙄

@clhiu this is what Prof Brosens talked to me about, he expects to find low levels on NK cells in the endometrium of people who implant a lot, in these people the body doesn't select out the abnormal embryos, so they implant and the body finds out they are abnormal and miscarry. In people like me with recurrent implantation failure he expects the opposite, that the NK cells are though the roof and the body over selects so a pregnancy is ended before any rise in HCG. However my NK result ended up being normal and low (the opposite that was expected). The way forward if you think this is your issues is to see a reproductive immunologist, some of us here are under one, Dr Shehata and Dr Gorgy are examples. The tests and treatments are expensive, but where else do you turn at this point. There is a book called is your body baby friendly, you should read it, it is really helpful to outline this stuff.

@Loz2467 I really think it's hard to tell, any symptoms I get could be the medications and last time I spent 4dp5dt crying and doing vigorous crafts thinking the transfer had failed after a stark white frer and then I got some form of positive the next day. When do you think you'll test?

@clhiu if you're trying naturally you could try the at home immune protocol. Lots of people in the USA do it.

It's:

Loratidine 10mg in the morning
Famotidine- I’ve seen this as 10 mg at lunch or 20mg twice a day
Diphenhydramine (nytol) 50-75mg at night

@clhiu Really pleased to hear you are moving forwards and making plans. I agree with others re getting DHEA-S levels checked via Medichecks before taking DHEA. I did that and my levels were ok so I didn't take DHEA. My Consultant recommended CoQ10 (600mg), NMN (600mg) and Resveratrol (500mg). I believe that, together with LP, gave me better quality eggs and embryos. Perhaps something to look into.

@Enfys23 Yes I can vouch for the Fertility Medication Centre too. They are really helpful and I saved around £800 on my LP stimm cycle (same drugs from the Stork) vs my clinic. But for my medicated FET, I was better going with Asda.

@CailinInUK That's great you've started stimms and I wish you all the very best with this cycle x

@clhiu P.s. I agree with @Gardenlady543 that the book 'Is Your Body Baby Friendly' is a good read. It's written by the pioneer of the Chicago blood tests. I had those tests done through my fertility clinic back at the beginning of this year and I've had treatment for the nk cell / immune issues through them, so it isn't always necessary to see a separate immunologist. If you ever have any questions, feel free to ask.

@Faithhopelove83 thank you! I have it in my head that I will probably need several more stim cycles to get a euploid that is also PGT-M passed and I’m prepared to do that. Just need a bit of luck too.

I just looked up NAD and recalled that I ordered similar last year. I ended up not taking it for some reason, I think because I got a transferable embryo so wasn’t planning on doing any more stim cycles. It’s out of date now so may order it again as I know The Egg Whisperer recommends it too.

I hope you’re feeling ok and taking it step by step.

@CailinInUK Goodness, potentially a long road ahead then, but you sound ready / strong going into it, which is great.
Interesting, I hadn't heard of NAD before. Just looked it up and it seems similar to NMN (NMN seems to convert to NAD).
Thank you - I haven't been so great tbh, been struggling. But, like you say, just need to try to take it one step at a time x

@Gardenlady543 thank you for the advice and explanation on nkc and immune response, however my understanding is this particular theory about the endometrium accepting abnormal embryos specifically and rejecting normal ones isn’t an immune or nkc issue, but a completely separate matter of receptivity to do with the genes in the endometrium and their compatibility. I also already had the full nkc profile tested by the Chicago lab and all my values were completely normal. I heard about immune issues rejecting implantation, but I understood this as a different thing that has nothing to do with that. I will read the book though for sure. My consultant did also say that even when the tests are normal there is sometimes for women with experience of recurrent loss, a heightened immune response regardless and if we did another transfer she would give a different stronger immuno-suppressant than intralipids (I forgot the name).
Thanks for the home immune protocol recommendations, will I need those to be prescribed or can they just be purchased over the counter/online?

Thanks for the advice on supplements to improve egg quality @Faithhopelove83 , COq10 I’m already on, but I will add NMN and reservatrol for sure.

@clhiu nobody knows for sure about any of this, I am just telling you what the professor had told me, but there is a lack of evidence base. The closest you can come to figuring any of it out is expert opinion, which is the lowest form of evidence. There is a reproducing immunology group on FB. If you join that you'll be able to find out more about the topic, you'll see that reproductive immunologists differ with what they test, what they think is and isn't important and how they treat different issues.

@Gardenlady543 yeah I completely get you! It’s so hard because my last 2 pregnancies I felt every single part of implantation so I already feel like I’m out. Just keeping myself busy at work - I guess it’s not like I expected anything different. I’m just thinking what’s the issue, the fibroid. The embryo. Do I need immunes or Emma and Alice. Just a whole bunch of stuff.

@CailinInUK @Faithhopelove83 thank you for sharing your experience. On a quick compare I think I’m likely to save quite a few hundreds of pounds so it definitely seems worth it. I had quoted them for FET meds but wasn’t really much of a difference once factored in private prescription charge from clinic, but fresh cycle definitely seems worth it.

Clinic have not agreed to baseline scan, said they’ll scan when I start norethisterone in the previous cycle. Think best I’m going to get.

I’m really not coping well with this wait. I don’t even plan on testing early but I’ve had zero symptoms so I’m pretty sure I’m out. My last 2 pregnancies was very obvious when I implanted :(

Trying to get a list together of what to try next. Because I’ve been on the prostap my periods aren’t going to return very quickly!

@Loz2467 I've barely been getting symptoms either, I held off testing until today at 6dp5dt and I have a positive.

@Gardenlady543 oh I'm so pleased. It's a great start. How are you feeling about it?

@Loz2467 have everything crossed for you too xxx

Thankyou @Janefx40 it's a much stronger line this time on the frer and wondfu, even the CB monitor picked it up. So I think it's a better start to last time. But with this being the second positive ever and the last being a chemical I'm quite stressed!

@Gardenlady543 Congratulations on your BFP! - hope this is a sticky one x

@Loz2467 I'm sorry you're not feeling hopeful this time. It's so hard not to compare with previous. Hoping the best for you x

@Gardenlady543 wonderful news to wake up to! Great thats it’s a strong line too. Hopefully that’s the difference but I can imagine how stressful it is. Take it a (long) day at a time.

@Loz2467 Hoping the best for you too. At this early stage, I don’t think symptoms or no symptoms mean anything.

@Loz2467 should also say that I know you know your body better than anyone but I hope you’re wrong regarding the lack of symptoms. x

@Gardenlady543 thats really good news, obviously you’ll be a bit tentative about it all after last time but my doctor did say when I had the CP last time that your more fertile in the months after so fingers crossed - definitely off to a good start!

That’s lovely news @Gardenlady543 hoping this is a sticky one.

@Loz2467 try to keep some hope if you can

Congratulations @Gardenlady543 that is wonderful news for you! I know the new few days will be stressful and a while before you can fully relax and embrace this, but have a really good feeling for you this time X

I started the book you recommended yesterday and couldn’t put it down, thank you so much. I’ll be definitely looking to book an appointment with Dr Shehata or Gorgy soon.

@Gardenlady543 gentle congrats! What wonderful news and glad they are looking darker than last time for you! Everything crossed.

Thank you so much everyone - I just know it hasn’t. I’ve been pregnant twice and I’ve literally always known by 7dpo which is probably like 2 days past a transfer? Or at least by now which is 5 days past.

@Gardenlady543 did you say you had a lap when you had the Myomectomy? Even though my consultant advised against the lap because of my age and said try the prostap instead I’m still thinking about it. I’ve read a full thread on inspire of 23 pages and some women failed first time then had another prostap and then it worked. However I’m more thinking for myself it’s this area on my lining affecting things and it could even be adenomyosis rather than a fibroid as I know it’s hard to distinguish the two.

I’ve definitely had less bloating since the prostap and less urgency for the loo - sorry for TMI so I feel like it’s done something somewhere although I know it’s only to last 4-6 months. That’s also why I’m wondering when I’ll actually get a proper period after my withdrawal bleed.

I’m so sorry @Loz2467 it’s not looking like the news you wanted this time.
Do you have more blasts for other transfers or will you be wanting to go back doing more EC once you explored any other potential issues? x

Thanks everyone, here's hoping I get some luck now! I've certainly had my share of bad luck to date!

@AM08 it's been so frustrating as I've had 2 cycles cancelled since the chemical, so hopefully the extra boost I need is still there, as the chemical was December so a few months ago now.

@clhiu really glad you're finding the book useful. It really is a minefield, IYBBF is the best book to explain reproductive immunology.

@Loz2467 so the plan was for me to have a hysteroscopy to remove the fibroids and then a lap to check for endo at the same time and treat if it was there, but as the operation was escalated to open the surgeon put the camera in through the incision and checked for endo that way, there wasn't any. When are you going to test?

@Gardenlady543 Congratulations. Just take one step at a time. That is really good news. Could I just ask are you using the vaginal probiotics?