ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 8

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @kerrym87 @Janefx40 @seven201 @thislittlebird @Spin101 @Enfys23
@CailinInUK @BewilderedBee @Loz2467 @Lori2022 @VenusStarr @clhiu @Faithhopelove83 @APSR @ChickenT2b @Mina209 @IVF22 @Lizzybeth1988 @AM08 @Fluffykins33 @Sar1010

Continued in from thread 7 :)

So sorry @clhiu . I really had high hopes for you with your symptoms. It’s so devastating.

@clhiu I’m so sorry. Give yourself time. IVF is so hard.

@clhiu i’m so sorry to hear it hasn’t worked out this time, it’s so heartbreaking full stop but alone with test lines giving hope. Do be kind to yourself xxx

@Enfys23 and @Faithhopelove83 thank you, I do feel like I’m straight into a new 2 and half week wait now until scan but fingers crossed!

I know it’s early for me to start thinking about next steps, but it’s my coping mechanism and I just cannot help doing so.
Giving at present we have no funds for future IVF rounds at all and are also pretty disillusioned with it all, I think we’re going to go back to trying naturally with timed intercourse for a while and see what happenes. I’m at high risk of further miscarriages, but we have no choice at the moment. Because my issue seems to be an egg quality one, I want to try and doing whatever possible to improve on that. Whilst measures and supplements taken before did not unfortunately have much of an impact although I’m planning to continue with all of those, I hear very positive things about DHEA and evidence of impact on egg quality. I am surprised my consultant never recommended it to be fair and had I known about it before starting my treatment cycle, I would have asked about it.
I know some of you have used or are using it. Can you please give me some guidance and information on these points?

• Did you find it made a genuine difference to your case?
• I can figure if it’s legal to purchase without prescription in the UK, I can find some online, are they legitimate? Can you recommend a trusted brand or share a link?
• How would you recommend administering it? Dosage, strength, for how long, when yo start/stop in relation to my natural cycle.
• Any side effects or counteractive negative impact on fertility, endo receptivity and other key hormones such as oestrogen, which I seem to have good balance of and wouldn’t want to throw out of whack?
• Any interactions with key supplements I need to be aware of?

Thank you

Hi all. Attaching my biopsy reports. Infection has cleared but the lactobasicullus is still low. Have been asked to take vaginal probiotics(canesflor 2 per day for a month ) to increase my lactobacillus levels and repeat the test. I have been taking canesflor and optibac but the levels dint improve. Is there any other brand that works better ? Should I be taking balanceactiv with canesflor ?

Any recommendations for nutritional therapist specialized in fertility? Also any private fertility clinic in London where I can have one time consultation and discuss my biopsy report ?

@APSR this looks like a good result to me as bifidobacterium is felt to be a good bacteria, it is also acid producing. In this study they say

The good prognosis of the no-treatment non-lactobacillus dominant group may be attributed to the following two factors; five patients with the percentage of endometrial Lactobacilli more than 80% achieved successful pregnancy, and two patients with dominant....

Bifidobacterium (>90%) in the endometrium also achieved pregnancy...

Bifidobacterium dominancy may not have an adverse effect for implantation.

doi.org/10.1002/rmb2.12250

Sounds like a good idea to use probiotics to try and improve on lactobacillus since there is more evidence for this than bifidobacterium, but I would be pleased not to have as much of the dysbiotic bacteria.

@clhiu planning ahead is good, I have gone into planning mode a lot after bad news, it has helped me to cope. One of my friends with DOR took DHEA, she kept an eye on her DHEA and testosterone levels every 3 months through medichecks.

@Gardenlady543 Thanks. Any probiotics that you would recommend? I got a big list from igenomix but I’m u sure which one to go for. Should I be taking balance activ with probiotics.?
Is there any other way to check the good bacteria levels other than biopsy ? I have got just one genetically normal 4bb embryo. So want to ensure I’m ticking all the boxes which is in my control before fet.

@APSR it is good to take an acid product like balance acitiv as it’s the acidic environment which helps the lactobacillus adhere to the vaginal wall, so for people without the good bacteria they would need to create the acidic environment while colonizing, you can buy vaginal pH tests from Amazon to test your pH if you wanted, I’d expect you to have an acidic environment already, but I wouldn’t have thought it would do any harm to use them for 7 days when you first start the vaginal probiotics.

Canesflor is the easiest to get hold of in the Uk but I feel there are better ones.

Florafemme, this is the ultimate vagina probiotic, it has 72 billion bacteria in it and lots of different strains. It is expensive and you only get 6 in a packet so I would recommend doing it straight after the course of antibiotics and then do one packet before a transfer. You need to order it from USA.
florafemme.com

Vagibiom
This has Lactobacillus Crispatus in it which is felt to be a very good strain of lactobacillus, as well as some other strains. The benefit of this one is it has the acid and prebiotic (nutrient) built in. It is also from USA and you can order it from eBay.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vaginal-Probiotic-Suppository-30-Natural-Vaginal-pH-Odor-Control-No-Parabens-/283702366882?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Gynolact, this one is good as it has 3 different strains in it
www.pharmasana.co.uk/gynolact-vaginaltabletten-8-st-03034436

Oral:
Bio.me.femme
It has l crispus in it.
www.supplementhub.co.uk/products/bio-me-femme-v-60-capsules

Optibac for women, you can get this from a lot of places, I've even seen it at tesco often on offer if you buy 3 at a time.

Femdophilus - there are 2 strengths I get the strongest. You can get from Amazon.

Can I ask if you will take the vaginal probiotics at same time as vaginal progesterone? X

@clhiu with DHEA you have to check your Free Testosterone and DHEA levels first. It isn't a good idea to take it unless you have low levels of those. You could buy it online although I did hear there was increased restrictions on stuff coming into the country and I've not bought it since then. The stuff you buy online isn't micronised but I think it still works. I was prescribed it but bought online in case it would come quicker (it didn't!) but ended

Sorry sent too soon @clhiu but ended up taking both and both worked. It can take 2-3 weeks to arrive once ordered.

I assume you have It Starts With an Egg? She discusses DHEA in there and also on her website including doses.

First get your levels checked then think about it. I know quite a few women for whom it has messed up their cycles. It was fine for me but then my levels were low. So I would just say to proceed with care

@IVF22 I'm on cyclogest and use it rectally,
So the vaginal probiotics are the only thing I use vaginally.

@clhiu good advice from others about worth a try if your testosterone/dhea levels low at a baseline check via medichecks , and go cautiously with it. I can’t say it’s helped yet, hopefully it will.
I had flare of migraine but has settled. I do have worsening acne but I’m always prone with hormonal changes; and my boobs have got a bit bigger and tender - already feels a little better by now though.
I needed mine in a rush and got it within 48 hours from this UK based alternative health clinic who supply life extension brand. You just have to answer few simples Qs for the “prescription”.
https://www.mybodyfabulous.co.uk/prescription-only/dhea
check your testosterone after 1 month and then every 3 months I think is advised. Maybe start at 25mg given you’re not being medically supervised?

@Gardenlady543 Thanks for the detailed list. I’m unable to order vagibiom from eBay. It’s asking me to change the delivery address.Is there any other way I can get hold of florafemme and vagibiom ? What about physioflor?
I ordered femdophilus and am currently taking optibac.

@APSR I think physioflor has been discontinued, I can't find the vaginal preparation for sale anywhere, just the oral ones. I ordered vagibiom fine from the the Uk a few weeks ago, I think it wouldn't let me order the 30 pack for some reason but it let me order 2 x packs of 15. Try the other listings on the vagibiom eBay account to see if those ones work.

@clhiu I think I would get your testosterone tested first of all. Your amh and fsh is like that of someone in their 30s. Just a thought but you could look at doing Access Fertility. There is no batching but there is only one fee and you get unlimited transfers and 2 egg retrievals if you need two. I did access when I was in my 30s when amh was higher.

It might be that you just need to do a mild protocol so less stims. That can have a profound impact on quality, so instead of focusing on quantity, you just look at quality. CRGH do mild stimulation.

Also, my friend who was nearly 44 had low amh. She took dhea for a long time but it did not help her. She was with care and did IVF for years with no success. She did one mild cycle with IVF serum in Greece and it worked. It was a lot cheaper and consultations were free. They also test for infections as part of their treatment before you start and they know a lot about immune testing.

@clhiu I have a similar coping mechanism, I need a plan going forward. When in hospital during my late miscarriage in November we I was emailing my fertility consultant to arrange my next cycle.

I tested my DHEA-s and it was normal for my age but less than a young person (according to Its starts with the egg) so took DHEA 25mg for only a couple of weeks before cycle age 43.I got a euploid but can’t say it was the DHEA. I took it again over the last few months and got a euploid age 44 (but sadly I have the PGT-m hurdle to pass and it failed that). My DHEA-s only marginally increased after 8 weeks of 25mg. I’ve read many anecdotal stories of it working when ttc naturally after ivf failed.
I stopped taking it a few weeks ago as I’d been on it for around 10-12 weeks. I was getting a small amount of what looked like fertile cervical mucus in luteal phase and during period so stopped it. It may not be related. I got mine from Biovea US. If you want the micronised Fertinatal version you need to go via the two listed clinics in London on the Fertinatal website and pay for a consultation.

@Gardenlady543 @Loz2467 hope you’re coping ok in TWW

@AM08 congrats to you! I hope the next 2 weeks go by fast, without any worries.

@Enfys23 ive also used the Fertility Medication Centre and saved some money so can vouch for them. Just as straightforward as ordering from clinic.

I had a scan today to confirm down regulation. All looked fine so starting stims tonight. My AFC was 11 so much the same as before I started down regulation and not bad for age 44, hopefully that indicates that I’m not over suppressed. I’ll go for first monitoring on Weds, Day 7.

@2021ivfagain i think you asked if I was waiting on vaginal microbiome results. Yes I am! Got confirmation that Juno received my sample on Monday so should get results by 12th. I’m expecting a bit of an improvement based on my pH but we’ll see. Are you gearing up for transfer in June?

@CailinInUK Yes. Problem is norethisterone affects my ph but I need to take it to control cycle, lower fsh and lh.

I did my swab with Invivo. They should have received it today so I won’t get it back until 24th May. Flora femme works well and when I’m not on norethisterone things are much better.

I have to do my transfer in June. I can’t wait any longer. Have you tried vaginal probiotic Good Clean Love? I think you mentioned that product. Are you going to do another egg retrieval? What is your plan?

@2021ivfagain yes I used good clean love. Took it for 14 consecutive days after my antibiotics in Feb. Then once a week or so since then. I’ve never had any symptoms down there so can’t comment on any change since taking them but I’ll let you know what my Juno results come back with. I got them from Spectrum Supplements in UK. I just started stims tonight for my next egg collection.

@CailinInUK Good luck. Please let me know how you get on. I get lots of symptoms but it’s a vicious circle as when I take Flora femme without norethisterone my symptoms disappear. It’s awful the medication we have to take which makes things worse.

I have looked up Good Clean Love and like Flora Femme the lactobacillus strains are inactive. It’s also homeopathic like Flora femme. It has good reviews. I like vagibiom but it wears off and feel I need something more intense to lower ph. I did my swab but it said I had to stop probiotics for 7 days. I couldn’t do that as I was taking probiotics after taking oral metronidazole. I’ve always continued with probiotics before. It’s hard because I can’t stop them for long as my microbiome will get even worse.

@clhiu im sorry your going through this! I don’t know much about IVF and all the testing but I always have a list in my phone of next steps.

im only 3 days past but I’ve felt absolutely nothing. Not even a slight twinge :( I’ve not expectations really from this and just worrying about this fibroid if they are saying it might affect but also it can’t be removed without maybe causing more issues. I know there’s a whole bunch of other things to consider too. Like immunes etc. Especially as I have adeno and like endo. I felt a bit hopeful doing the prostap down Reg as I read for many successes from it then this stupid fibroid in my lining became an issue.