4 high quality embryos at day 3 - what should I expect at day 5?

[Goodluckjonathan76]

Mid way through our first cycle of IVF. They retrieved 6 eggs and 4 fertilised. The embryologist called me on day 3 and said all 4 embryos were high quality (at least 10 cells and minimal fragmentation) and so they could keep them until day 5 or 6. I am due an update tomorrow am and probably ET tomorrow afternoon or Friday (day 5 or 6) and just trying to set my expectations for the news tomorrow. How many usually die between day 3 and 5? If we do have at least one left, what are my chances of it sticking? I've gotten so pessimistic that I've sort of ruled out it working. Should I assume it's not doing to work or should I be more hopeful?

Thank you Goodluck, we had a couple of bottles of wine last night with a friend who came over for dinner and DH is being a gem xx

Remember, that's fab you're so supportive of each other with DH.

Goodluck, the Panorama after all ;) So will you have Panorama privately and Harmony on the NHS? I'm going tomorrow morning. Feeling quite stressed out about it.

Otters and Twickerhun, how are you doing?

Jojo - good luck for your scan tomorrow. Where are you having it?

Goodluck - where have you booked your panorama/Harmony? I’m looking for recommendations

Remember - how are you feeling?

Twicker - how are you?

I got assigned a midwife today! The hospital are sending me a blood test form and a scan appointment in the post. Feeling excited now! Still not much in the way of symptoms but can’t complain really.

Otters sounds like things are moving now! I’ve just got the maternity paperwork it’s quite something!

Jojo is it scan day today? Best of luck. Xxx

Remember - thinking if you.

I’m doing ok. My tummy is huge though. Proper pot belly.

We’ve had the scan already and it’s all good news - measuring 2.5cm with a heart rate of 172. It was cute to see the little arms and legs Afterwards, I had my bloods taken for the Panorama.

Let’s hope we get a result as 9 weeks is the minimum GA they test from and I’m 9 weeks exactly. Apparently, it’s less likely to return a result if you weigh a lot so I’m a little worried I’ve had it too soon. However, the sonographer did say that despite high weight my bmi is normal (I’m very tall) so it should all work out.

Otters, I had it done at the Birth Company in Harley St. So exciting about the midwife!

Twicker, might you start wearing pregnancy clothes soon with your belly expanding?

Goodluck, your scan and test is in a few days - how are you feeling?

Good luck with the Panorama JoJo! Really exciting to have another scan. Let us know how it goes.

Otters, JoJo, I am booked to have the Panorama test next Tuesday at the Birth Company on Harley St. I am still booked in for the Harmony test at the Fetal Medicine Centre just a few doors down on 5th December and the nuchal test 2 weeks later. I will probably cancel the harmony test though as don't think there is any point doing both and may also cancel the nuchal test as having this done at UCLH on 19th December. Will definitely go to the Fetal Medicine Centre for the 20 week scan though. Went there with both my others pregnancies and thought they were fab, really reassuring.

Actually, am now wondering if I should keep the harmony test at the FMC. Bit silly to do both right? Just a teeny bit worried about the reliability of the panaroama as it's done so early though there is nothing to suggest it's not reliable, right JoJo? Will you have just the one test?

Good news the scan JoJo! Amazing to see arms and legs. They did say to me when I booked the appointment to leave it a few days after 9 weeks. Worried 3 days is not enough. Hopefully you will get a result. From what I have read, the fail rate of the test is low (less than 5%). Did they say anything about when the results will be back?

I am feeling ok about mine. What will be will be I guess. Been busy at work this week and with parents evening/school stuff which has kept my mind off it. 12 weeks will be real milestone for all of us! Kind of feels official then.

Jojo - great news on the scan. It's so exciting! When do you get your results?

Goodluck - what do you think about the birth company vs fmc?

Absolutely can't wait to get to 12 weeks!! Will be just after Christmas for us.

Hi all, I’m ok. Still feel the same if I’m honest. Stopped all meds 2 days ago and waiting for nature to take its course.

Consultant going to call us next week after reviewing our file and giving us his opinions and advice!!

Remember, I hope the consultant will be able to suggest improvements for next time.

Ladies, have you got your 12 week scans book? Otters, is yours meant to be literally between Christmas and NY?
Mine is going to be on 19.12 and I think we’ll largely stick to the NHS from then on (except for maybe a fancy 4D scan at some point).

Goodluck, will you tell your boys at Christmas?

Remember, apparently they learn lots from doing the 1st cycle and can apply what they learn in the second one. Did the Dr said how long it would take for AF to arrive?

JoJo, my 12 week scan is also on 19th December, yay! I may do the 20 week scan with the FMC as it's an important scan and good to be thorough. I am now having second thought re panorama and wondering if I should try to wait and to the harmony the following week, partly due to cost and partly because I keep thinking it may be better to test in a week or so. As for telling the boys, it's going to be really tricky as we need to tell all 4 kids at once. I have my DSs for Christmas but then they are going away with their dad for new year. We have DSC for new year but not for Christmas. So, we could tell them the week before Christmas OR in the new year. Only problem with telling them before is that they will be going away a week later and may feel worried and want to ask questions so I would rather have them around for that. The other big issue is that they may/probably will tell my ex-DH/their dad. Really really not looking forward to that and not sure how to approach it. My ex had another child nearly 2 years ago and I found out through a friend which was horrible although it didn't make it any easier hearing it from him directly. It was just really weird to get my head around the idea that DSs would have a half brother. Still is a bit weird and I think he will find the same thing. So, lots of think about and plan! When are you telling everyone?

Twicker, going back to your earlier question, I really liked the FMC and would definitely recommend them. The only reason I am considering going elsewhere is because I want to test as soon as possible and they don't do the panorama test at the FMC.

Got my nhs 12 weeks scan appointment in the post today! 29 dec but we are away that time so will have to call and re book. We've also after much deliberation decided to go for a harmony scan. They do a package deal at fmc - scan + blood test then Nuchal scan 2 weeks later so that's booked for 15 dec and 2jan! I will also have the nhs 12 week scan same week which seems like overkill but hey ho. Not sure when I'll actually meet the midwife as no appointment for that yet.

Goodluck - what have you decided re panorama vs harmony

Remember - hope you have a productive appointment with your consultant and you don't have to wait too long for AF

Otters, that package at the FMC was the one I was interested in. Seems very reasonable. However, I think I am leaning towards panorama as it can be done a week earlier plus not sure the nuchal is necessary as having it on the NHS a few days after. Still not completely decided though.

Ahhh I hate google. I’ve been googling the vanishing twin syndrome I’ve experienced. And it seems that it is linked with a significantly higher (double) incidence of birth defects and (triple increase in incidence) of multiple birth defects. Tests like harmony etc can’t be used in cases of vanishing twins (due to what you could pick up from the empty sac) so we couldn’t have screening. Risks of birth defects are also higher in identical twins after a late split of the embryo (as ours would have been).

Bugger.

Hi OP

Have my fingers crossed that everything works out well for you.

I’ve had 2 IVF pregancies and paid for investigations at the FMC (for different reasons as first was pre-Harmony testing but was an identical twin pregnancy). I would recommend them without hesitation, medically they know their shit so well in terms of foetal medicine. I can understand the pull of a test a week earlier elsewhere, but at the FMC they will do the whole thing and give you a combined result.

(For the avoidance of doubt, I have no connection with them other than as a very grateful patient.)

Happy to see all of you getting appointments for scans through - I think that point is so momentous in a pregnancy and how lovely for it to be over Christmas too.

Clinic weren't very committed on how long it will take af to arrive as it was the International Patient Coordinator I was in contact with and need to speak to the consultant once he's reviewed my files. I'm cd 35 today which is long for me but only 4 days free of meds prescribed by them so expecting a visit any time.

We have been with DSS and his family this weekend (meaning a stupid 500+ mile round trip for 30 hours there) and I had to run the gauntlet of MiL who has been quite nasty about our plans to try ivf (asking why we would bother 'at your age'; suggesting that we might get ripped off by the clinic (while not actually asking how we researched our plans) even suggesting they would be some back street outfit with no ethics or morals and staffed by unqualified people pretending to be Drs and they'd either give me some dire infection or (in her own ludicrous words) "what will you do if they put black babies inside you?" (Yep, thanks for the total racism there MiL!)

Anyway, she was probing and wanting details of how we know it's failed, even suggested AF might be a red herring because "women go through pregnancy having periods and not thinking they've 'fallen'!" and seemed quite disappointed to hear it was hormonal blood tests that confirmed failure. Then she was saying we should be booked on a plane to go out again asap for another try or we will lose our chance to carry on as you have to have as little a gap as humanly possible between cycles - even though we haven't decided if we definitely will go ahead again (and certainly won't make a final decision till we've spoken to the Drs). And, in a really nice moment, suggested I'm simply too old and we would be throwing more good money away trying again and chasing pipe dreams!!

Upshot is, I've come home feeling shite and determined not to share anything with DH family if we do decide to go ahead and go for round 2 (which definitely will be our last try as you have to stop somewhere!). Anyway, am busy today with something not family related (except DH and DM are with me) so am going to focus on that and forget what else is going on!

Ah remember that’s so tough. I’m so sorry. I’d definitely avoid telling her anything in the future. Take care of yourself. X

Twickerhun, oh dear... I can see that the stats sound high but equally, all these birth defect will still only be found in a very small minority of babies. So the greatest likelyhood is of a healthy baby I also read about the potential birth defects they were taking about. It seems many of them can be put right with surgery so not ideal but not the end of the world either. I hope you manage to focus on the odds being the greatest for having a healthy baby, though

Otters, you seemed to be so relaxed about it all. Have we made you more worried with the NIPTs and stuff?

Goodluck, from what I read, fetal DNA starts circulating in the mother’s blood very early on. I think that on average 3.4% of the free DNA in early pregnancy is from the fetus. So it seems a little unlucky not to get a result from the test. From what I remember, you’re slim as well, aren’t you? With a lower body mass you have a higher chance of the test working so it’ll probably be alright.

Remember, what a MIL and a half... My MIL has gone a bit senile with her world view too but I just try to stick to ‘in one ear, out the other’.

Twicker - step away from google! As jojo said the odds are that you will have a healthy baby. I know I will be the same though so completely emphatise. I feel like I'll never stop worrying! When is your next scan? Surely the nuchal scan and 20 week scan will still be very informative for the growing baby

Remember - that sounds like a really tough situation with the MIL. Definitely don't tell her anything next time. Sorry your clinic weren't overly helpful. Take time for yourselves and think about what's best for you as a family going forward. Hope you have a good day today and helps to take your mind off things

Jojo - when do you get results of panorama? I think I am as relaxed as I can be but it's difficult not to worry and think about worse case scenarios. We've had endless discussions and consulted with a few close friends who have had similar experiences. On balance we felt we should go for harmony as it's best to know early so we can make decisions if need be and/or prepare ourselves. I had a moment of panic and was going to book another scan for 8-9 weeks just to check but have come to my senses now and realized it won't make any difference to what's going on. I'll find out sooner or later naturally. I'm still feeling pretty normal, no sickness. Burping a lot and a bit bloated but I'm putting it down to the progesterone.

Twickers, agree that googling makes things a million times worse! One of the main reasons we delayed for so long doing IVF was that I kept googling all the risks of IVF and scared myself together. There is risk in everything, no guarantees with anything, but the risks are very low. I know a friend at work who had a vanishing twin through IVF who had a very smooth pregnancy and bouncing baby boy last year. Try not to worry, easier said than done.

Remember, your MIL sounds a nightmare. My ex MIL was like that (full of nasty comment she would drop unexpectedly). One of the big pluses of my ex having an affair and buggering off was losing her as a MIL. Can you get your DH to have a diplomatic word? Really is the last thing you need now.

Thanks for the recommendation Anita and welcome! I have been to the FMC before and really rate them. The only reason I am considering going elsewhere is so that I can have the panorama test a week earlier.

Otters, what persuaded you to go for the Harmony over the Panorama test? I'm still dithering. Also, will you and JoJo also have the nuchal fold test privately or just have it on the NHS? Is the nuchal fold still needed if you have had panorama/harmony?

Also, has anyone else started to have weird dreams/nightmares? I had a horrible nightmare last night that I broke a vase in my MIL's house and she was refusing to speak to me. Woke up at 4am and couldn't get back to sleep. Felt upset about it all day.

One other thing, having been told to replace the clexane injections with aspirin (lose dose) I read in the news yesterday that taking aspirin in pregnancy is linked to much higher rates of cerebral palsy! Have decided to stop taking it and just use up the 3 clexane injections I have left. Allowed to stop on Saturday anyway. Is anyone else taking aspiring??

Goodluck - I've been having vivid dreams and nightmares since the beginning. Had another one last night and can be quite unsettling.
We were dithering about testing or not. Not panorama vs harmony. On balance we decided it was best to know early if there are significant problems and as fmc was recommended we've gone with harmony as they don't do panorama as you know. Even when I booked harmony she said not to be exactly 10w but a few days over just to be sure.
The fmc offer a package deal so I'm guessing that if we don't have the nuchal test, Just harmony we still pay the same price. I'll ask the nhs if I need it repeated if I get it done privately. They may want to scan me for their records.

Anyone seen a midwife yet?

Hi Otters

I was just reading that the scan as the FMC is more thorough so tempting to keep the nuchal fold test there as well as on the NHS. The harmony/nuchal package at the FMC is a really good deal. Apparently you do still need both tests. I have pretty much decided to go ahead with the panorama test tomorrow at the Birth Centre, purely to get the results a week earlier. Not going to cancel the harmony test at the FMC just yet which I have booked for next Tuesday - at this rate I'll end up with both!!

My midwife appointed was booked for this Thursday 30th but I had to move it as I'm at a conference. Rescheduled for Monday 4th at 12pm. Expect it will be long and boring. Is everyone going to tell the midwife/dr that conception was through IVF?

I've started having some silly dreams too We've also booked our last holiday before the baby arrives. On the midwife's recommendation, we've opted for Gran Canaria as it the flight isn't too long and it's Zika free + should be warm in winter.

With regards to the nuchal measurement, the midwife told us not to bother. The NIPT tests are a lot more accurate and in my hospital then send you for a NIPT if the nuchal measurement is off. So she advised not to bother with this step at all if we're doing the Panorama.

I think the Birth Company and the Fetal Medicine Centre are actually in the same building (unless I imagined something). For all it's worth, I found the Birth Company very professional. The sonographer was excellent and they gave us a report + video + 3 pictures.

I'm not sure when my Panorama results will come back but probably end of this week or next week. I won't be too gutted if I'd gone too early and it's inconclusive as then you get another scan so would be lovely to see our little wriggly one again.

Goodluck, I'm not taking aspirin. Good luck tomorrow!

Twickerhun, how was your weekend? Are you feeling any better or fretting a lot?

My midwife appt is in a couple of hours. Ill definitely say about this being ivf - it didn’t seem to bother them last time or increase my risk factors too high.
I’m feeling much better about the vanishing twin complications, thanks for asking. I’m back to what will be will be. But I am experiencing major nausea and vomiting. I have to have a bucket in the living room when I change my boys nappy as I can’t deal with a nappy without vomiting up! I think it’s just the week 9 hormone rush? Oh and yes to he vivid dreams!

JoJo, I think it is in the same building. So are you not going to have nuchal fold test done privately? And when are you going on holiday? I posted on another thread about this but I booked to go skiing in Feb half term with DSs. DH can't make it due to work. Will cost be 2k to cancel so in a real dilemma what do to. Gran Canaria sounds lovely! From what i have read, panorama results often come back within 7 days.

Twickers, good luck with the midwife. I am also feeling quite rough today, spells of nausea. Working from home luckily and have already had 2 bacon sandwiches in a bid to eat my way through it and I am a vegetarian!! Had a really bad day yesterday after no sleep the night before and was really stroppy all day with DSs and, can you believe it, managed to drive through a red light when distracted by the 2 of them were fighting in the back. I am clearly not myself!

Separately, feeling a bit freaked out as was just messaging my friend who had IVF last year. She miscarried due to genetic abnormalities in the baby but it was quite late, as in around 4-5 months (not sure when exactly). Worrying as I assumed that if there is something wrong then the pregnancy wouldn't progress that far. Clearly some do progress that far. I know she had genetic testing so wondering if it showed up.