The mind numbing boredom of infertility IV

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

Yes it's the return of the thread where we're so fucking bored of being infertile and talking about infertility and thinking about infertility and worrying and infertility and learning about infertility treatment and explaining infertility to other people and making up lies to cover up for going for infertility tests and treatment that we can't even be bothered to think of a better name for the thread.

Join us if you are barren, bored and bitter, or any combination of the above. We'll listen to your tails of woe when everyone you've ever met upduffs in an instant, accompany you through the trials of tests and treatment and commiserate the inevitable setbacks and disappointments.

Welcome to the ghetto.

When I can work out links, I'll post linnks to threads 1, 2 and 3

Am wittering now but reading it again, the stuff on the hair mineral analysis page is what got me. It talks about blood and urine tests only being able to show an immediate reading of the body. Minerals are usually stable in blood, even if there is something wrong. The body rids your blood of them but they remain in your hair, meaning your body is constantly getting rid of them.

I had to fill in a four page question sheet and some of it was really ringing alarm bells for me. The lead thing has always troubled me and my SIL. Especially when you look at the links between it and mc.

Interesting reading if nothing else.

Tammy baby bombs so hard. I am still reeling from my younger SIL one and it was in junestill upsets me now if I let myself think about it.

Thanks, fourpawswhite. As if we weren't tired enough of the relentless fertility of everyone else in our world! Unfortunately DH (a bit younger than me) is at the age when all his friends are now starting to have babies, just at the point when we are facing the end.

Hi guys,
Glad you're back been feeling bit lonely. Started stimming today had baseline scan. Just like with failed cycle, all is looking great but daren't get hopes up. This is our second and last NHS cycle so feeling the pressure...
fourpaws good to hear from you - definitely interested in the mineral test. What are your thoughts on intralipids? Am going to have them next week as feel I should throw everything at it though sounds like pseudo science for the hopeless from what I've read. I haven't told anyone about this cycle which has been better but weird. You got me onto this thread and I've laughed and cried at your posts - please don't disappear!
Tammy pants to babybombs. It just sucks though I want the time to come when I can be the one revelling instead of this endless bloody stabbing!
Have a restful weekend ladies. X

Sara the top clinics in the world use intralipids

Intralipids are absolutely critical in combination with prednisolone in helping tackle elevated nk cells in women with failed IVF and recurrent miscarriage

The number of women I know who are only finally getting and staying pregnant thanks to pred and intralipids is astonishing

There's a reason it's used by every top IVF clinic in the country and called miracle mayonnaise

There's nothing pseudo science about intralipids - the body of evidence is impressive

I have never heard of these things. See, why is it that i learn more from here than my own doctor.

NHS doesn't offer nk cells treatment but any private clinic which specialises in recurrent miscarriage will likely recommend pred and intralipids and clexane

I know so many women fobbed off on the NHS told their mc after mc after mc were just bad luck

Then finally get treated properly and they stay pregnant

www.miscarriageclinic.co.uk/causes-side-effects

www.gynae-centre.co.uk/our-services/recurrent-miscarriage/

www.midlandfertility.com/recurrent-miscarriage-tests/intralipid-infusion/

www.bourn-hall-clinic.co.uk/treatments/intralipid/

www.preventmiscarriage.com/Reproductive-Immunology/Treatment/Intralipid-Therapy.aspx

haveababy.com/ivf-blogs-from-sirm-patients/intralipid-infusions

It's not exactly pseudo science. It's very well established treatment for implantation failure and miscarriage

In fact there's an article in today's guardian about intralipids

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/12/can-mayonnaise-cure-infertility

Thanks banana; everything I've read suggests there is no evidence for intralipids to improve implantation and that's why it's not yet licensed as an ivf drug. It's so confusing. I was reading Lord Winston's research site where he completely slates it and explains that the NK cells in the uterus are completely different to those in the blood that would attack pathogens. Then I read that reducing nk cells in the uterus could be a bad thing as they work with the embryo and placenta to aid implantation. I can't help but think that profit making private clinics are playing on women's desperation and fear. The scientific websites say it it not justified. Then again, is there a lack of evidence due to the usual sidelining of women's issues? Thanks for links- will read through.

The HFEA website was informative and the Robert Winston website is called the Genesis trust. Lots of frequently asked questions on there made for nice bit of bedside reading last night! He will also answer questions one to one for free.

FWIW I think that there are so many variables in creating and sustaining a pregnancy, that much in the field is too new to have the levels of control groups and evidence for proper scientific proof. Not to say it doesn't work, but that the stats don't exist in reliable forms. I have heard of people with multiple failed cycles or multiple mcs having success with immune therapies such as intralipids. There are so many cases of unexplained infertility, perhaps it is just that they haven't yet had the right tests/treatments.

While it is easy to be sceptical about private clinics and their motives, this is one area I believe that they are just more advanced.

I read that NK cells are normal & healthy, and protect you and your baby from infection. I think the treatments need to be used with great caution, and only for women who have been found through tests to have unusual cell activity. I read that the treatments suppress natural immunity and have been linked to higher rates of sepsis, which is what killed my son, so I would be very apprehensive about taking them.

Thanks fuzzy - its such a minefield knowing what to do for the best. My clinic have offered intralipids as I have never been pregnant but they emphasise there is no evidence that they have any effect... I have read about the link with sepsis; it's very worrying. Interesting article in guardian about it this weekend too. X

Opinions can also differ within clinics and between consultants. Some in favour, some not. I've had two FETs now with the full works (intralipids etc) and no joy. Had to change consultant for our next treatment and got another bloody opinion and a different treatment plan. Miracle Mayo did wonders for my hair, aches etc!

Just read the article. It's interesting, but just adds to the confusion! Until there are proper clinical trials, it's always going to be anecdotal. The positive outcomes that have been seen by patients could otherwise be down to any number of variables. It seems that there are as many people who continue to have mcs as don't, so it's impossible to say if that particular pregnancy at that particular time would have stuck anyway. I can see why people ask for it though - the desperation is just awful. I'd try anything if it wasn't shown to be potentially harmful. Unfortunately the links of intralipids to sepsis rule them out for me.

I'm from a scientific background and am pretty pissed off with the level of research evidence in relation to IVF and add on treatments like intralipids, scratch etc. It would be relatively easy to conduct large trials in this area but it just hasn't happened or not quickly enough. Part of me is convinced this is as so much of this work is private so the incentive isn't there.
I get the desperation myself and really try to stay rational but who knows what I would try in the end!

Hi amara there is a trial for the scratch going on at the moment but could be years before results...

It would be great if there was some proper evidence for all the new techniques and technologies. I agreed to an endometrial scratch even though embryo quality has been my issue, not failure to implant, which the scratch is supposed to assist. But every little helps, right?

I had EC today, there were 16 eggs. I'm not going to get too excited until I know the number that are mature and fertilised. I've had more than 50% being immature before, and I'm really hoping the slower dosage on this cycle will help improve that.

That's a wonderful number Blue. I'd have been thrilled with that! I got 6, only 3 mature. There's an excellent chance that your little bean is there in that great batch. Wishing you all the best - keep us posted x

Thanks Fuzzy, I'm just being cautious. Still drowsy from the sedation, so I'll have an early night and be eagerly waiting for the phone call early tomorrow.

Enjoy your rest Blue. The sedation didn't make me drowsy at all - I think I need an elephant gun for that. Good luck for tomorrow.

I've got 6 mature eggs, of which 5 fertilised. Less than I was hoping, and v nervous about whether any will get to blast. They will call me again tomorrow.

Great to have 5/6 fertilised blue. Will
Keep everything crossed for you.

I'd be very pleased with that, Blue. Puts my measly pair at the bottom of the class! Wishing you all the best for the next few days

Sorry I probably sound very ungrateful for my 5, but it's just that I'm worried. The lower drug doses on this cycle were supposed to reduce quantity of eggs but also increase the proportion of mature eggs but in fact it's the same as last time - 9/24 and 6/16 are both 37.5%. I've also had 5 fertilise in my first cycle and got no blasts so my anxiety is pretty high right now. I have a feeling this week is going to harder than a 2ww!