Anyone starting IVF? Join me (5)

[waitingimpatient]

I don't think anyone has started the new thread yet? Apologies if so and ignore this one if its already been done

I'm hoping by the end of this thread I'll be waiting and impatient for a new arrival fingers crossed

waiting sending you so much love and hugs. Remember that embryo quality is also determined by the stims protocol, and if I remember you were stimming for a really long time, and got quite hyperstimulated? As you say, without having gone to day 5 you don’t know have as much info - I know that with my first batch of eggs, I had 3 great embryos (and 1 OK one) at day 3 but they all fell over thereafter and nothing made it to blast. However my second batch of eggs fared much better - I had 9 great embryos (and 1 OK one) at day 3 and got 7 blasts - of which 2 weren’t good enough quality to freeze, but 5 ranged between AA-BB grade.

I think based on no medical training whatsoever that the immunes protocol was very wisely chosen. With such a very strong autoimmune history, thyroid issues and endometriosis (which is often immune related) it is pretty clear that there is a very strong indication for taking the steroids etc. My Dr will not prescribe them unless they are indicated, and says they can do more harm than good if used indiscriminately (which is potentially what happened with the lady shellster mentioned).

But you have such a clear history that I don’t think there is any reason whatsoever to think you should have done anything differently with this FET. Dr Sher writes a lot about immunologic implantation dysfunction, and the Alan Beer book is pretty unequivocal. An overactive immune system is problematic - so you did everything right.

Most cycles succeed or fail due to embryo quality - and there is absolutely no reason that your next batch won’t be top notch (if you end up even needing a next batch, as there could still be a surprise BFP lurking round the corner). Get the embryo quality right and you will have the seed AND the soil right with your immunes protocol. And immunes will help keep you pregnant as well as get you pregnant.

As you know, as I’ve gone on about it ad nauseam, the big difference between my first and second cycles was having 3 months of egg quality supplements under my belt (as well as high protein)

I have everything crossed for you my lovely xxx

Hi shellster. No my cycles are defo not the "normal" 28 days lol I can go anything from 28-40 odd! I had to go for scan on day 10 of period then when my lining was over 8 and I had a lead follicle I had to start doin the ovulation tests and I got a positive surge on day 17 of cycle which was a Sunday then I had to go in the following sat for transfer, I have no idea how they work these days etc out!
My otd is thurs but I'm dreading it tbh I'm almost certain it's a no no.

banana what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Also from reading the book 'it starts with the egg' that i got today I can see the logic in the supplements and diet changes

I was thinking of repeating mild IVF in April but reading the book I'm now wondering whether to get three months of coq10, inositol and higher protein diet done and then do the cycle
But the other part of me is just so desperate to do it ASAP

It made such a huge difference to you though and that inspires me. I feel I need to do all I can and really it's not that much longer to wait but it feels like forever. I didn't realise how fitting my username would become

Hope everyone is well

indecisive not long now till your test day !
I'm having my bloods tomorrow to confirm the bfn I've had on numerous tests then I'll be starting all my supplements etc. at least I feel I'm doing something positive although I can't decide whether to start them and do IVF next cycle (which would be in around 8 weeks) or whether to wait a full three months with the vitamins diet change etc

Hi, I was wondering about you I hope ur ok?
I'm dreading it tbh I can see the result clear in my head can feel period working its way.....
Personally I would give ur body a break hun, wait 3 months have 3 normal periods and then try again with a clear head and rested body. I know it's easy to say when all u wana do is just get preg so desperately trust me I really do know but sometimes we need some time out and will give u time to think about what supplements are best for u etc. X

Yes I think that makes sense as everything I've read seems to point towards needing a good three months of supplements etc and higher protein diet to make a difference in egg quality. It's so hard waiting though but realistically it's not that much longer to wait and if it means success then it's worth it. I'd rather wait the three months, get some good quality eggs and then embryos to transfer and it works than rush into it hen I'm not 100% and I go through all this again

Sorry you're not feeling good. Symptoms in the 2ww with IVF are a bit odd anyway due to progesterone so you never know, you might be lucky. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you

I think I'm ok now too, I've had a bit of time to get over the disappointment and we have a plan so I feel like it's not the end of the road

waiting, I don't know how I found the strength to keep going cycle after cycle either. In reality, I really didn't have the strength, I was drained and everyday life was a struggle. But there are only two options, stop and accept it won't work which I couldn't do, or go on and try again. So I guess I was just forced to continue. It was financially draining for me too. I hoped to have my credit card debt paid off by now but have just finished work and still owe $2000. I can definitely understand being anxious about NOT taking the drugs and being anxious if you DO take them. I was very study based with all my IVF decisions, but I never did a lot of research into immunes and steroids as it was not one of my issues. I don't know if there are actually tests you can do to make you feel more at ease about what the right decision is?

Unlike the drugs, the protein diet is not controversial and it is something practical I found I could do to improve embryo quality. I was very obsessive compulsive about it, weighing all my food and entering into the CalrieKing website to work out my percentages, but I couldn't switch off my IVF mind anyway, so I think I needed that to give me something practical to be consumed about instead of just waiting and worrying while I waited for my next IVF cycle. The studies online about it show significant results and are very encouraging for improving embryo quality if you want to have a look. What did I take during my last cycle? Well for my second last cycle, I took Crinone alone. I had two top quality day 3 embryos transferred. One was at 11 cells and the other was at 13 cells and already starting to compact into a morula. I knew that embryos are normally between 6-9 cells on day 3 and so of course in my two week wait, I researched what it meant for my two embryos to be so much further ahead on day 3. read a study (I was a bit study obsessed during my IVF cycles!) that showed embryos that are faster growing are much more likely to burn out before they get to day 5. BUT, if they do make it to day 5, the study of these embryos showed they were the least likely to be genetically abnormal and the most likely to go on and create a viable pregnancy. So when I go pregnant that cycle, I found this study reassuring and knew the embryo was not likely to be genetically abnormal and that it would go the distance. However, I then had a couple of days of hot flushes followed by the heaviest bleed of my life and an early miscarriage. Trying to be practical, I thought that from this study it was less likely to be the embryo and more likely to be hormonal. I had also read studies showing that poor responders (which was me!) had much higher pregnancy rates when they took estrogen in addition to the progesterone. This made perfect sense since I know the hot flushes are caused by fluctuating estrogen levels in menopause. So for my final successful cycle that worked, I took it upon myself to add estrogen to the usual progesterone and did not have a repeat of the hot flushes.

Thinking of you indecisive. I can totally understand the feeling of doom and glood with the embryologists words lurking in your head, but I hope that embryo continued to do it's thing once it was transferred.

I think I'm similar as I need to be doing something. Researching and doing things like dietary changes feels like it's keeping my mind focused and it's something I can control in all of this.

I think that's why I test early. In October and this cycle I needed to have that control and to prepare myself. Everything else seems so out of my control it's all I can do.
The financial side of it all is a pain. We are trying not to think about it anymore to reduce stress! I know we have spent/will spend a lot. Hopefully it will all be worth it. I am just burying my head in the sand so as not to increase stress any more!

Hope you are feeling well Shellster-not long now ! Must be so exciting x

Yes, you sound similar to me waiting in needing to do something while you wait. People would say forget about it and get on with life, but we who are in it know just how impossible that is, so I figured if it was going to be at the forefront of my mind anyway, then it might as well be about positive things like ticking off my supplements on my charts and entering my protein and carb percentages into CalorieKing, rather than just stressing and worrying while I waited.

I feel bad talking about my pregnancy when you are still in the midst of it all waiting. I recall clearly being on this thread when I was going through failure after failure and others would have success on their first or second cycle and it would just make me feel like it was never going to happen for me. So I try not to mention myself too much and sometimes even wonder if I should just rack off from here and not be another one of those in your face pregnant women, but another part of me still feels more of an affinity with this IVF world and I still can't relate to other pregnant women even though I now am one. But since you ask, yes not long now. I will be 38 weeks this Saturday. I think it will be a shock to see the baby. Somehow I still don't believe it. The midwife felt my tummy two weeks ago and made out where the bum, head and even a limb were. I was still shocked that she could feel this, and my mind still reacted by saying to myself 'what, baby body parts - no - there can't really be a baby in there'.

Oh please don't feel bad in the slightest shellster it honestly gives me so much hope and I'm so happy for you. I really, really value your advice too as sometimes I feel like it's information overload when I start reading and googling etc etc and you have been through it, read everything I think! and can help when we have questions on here!

I can't wait to hear your happy news and I suppose being last 37 weeks it could really be any day now !

Past not last !

Yes, you're right. They say that anywhere from 37 weeks onwards is considered full term. Although, that being said, my son was actually 2 weeks overdue and hence I was induced. I've since been told that being induced is 5 times worse and so I am desperately hoping to go into labor naturally and so with that as my past history, I just feel like I would be lucky if I wasn't two weeks overdue let alone it come early.

It definitely is information overload when you start reading, researching and Dr Googling. I found exactly the same thing, yet despite the fact that I only found myself more stressed by doing it, I still couldn't stop myself! I think that's where I found Mumsnet so great, as it gave me a place to come on the internet where I could vent rather than stress myself out Dr Googling.

I hope you're finding the book 'it starts with an egg' useful. I've heard great things about it and read that the author is very qualified in her field.

Yes it's been a very helpful read alongside another book I got 'is your body baby friendly' . Between the two I think I'm managing to get some ideas of where to go with the next cycle.
I've started the dietary changes and significantly upped my protein and dropped a lot of carbs. Once I get my bloods back late and can officially stop the other medications I will be starting my supplements (coq10, inositol and a better pre conception multivitamin than I have previously taken) also thinking about an omega 3 supplement. I feel like I'm actually doing something positive

indecisive hope you are ok x

Hi,
No not really lol I feel awful so depressed my moods are off the scale lately and the cramps, oh the cramps :(

waiting big hugs lovely, that all sounds eminently sensible

I think the thing I found helpful about the book was that the author is a biochemist and therefore had the training to be able to analyse the million and one medical papers around, and sift out the poorly designed ones or misleading findings, and put them into a digestible format for the layman like me. It’s very easy to read an isolated study and think X or Y, but actually the study is incredibly poorly designed and therefore all isn’t necessarily what it seems.

Presumably you will get a follow up consultation with Create to have a wash-up following this cycle?

I found this guide to ‘learning from your failed cycle’ with the kinds of questions to ask really helpful:

www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=283000.0

In terms of thinking ahead, it sounds like you’re doing all the right stuff to get yourself in ship shape, I’d probably want to grill them about the stims protocol, seeing as how they stimmed you for such a dreadfully long time (vs what they said they would). Would probably want to know what they think they’d do differently next time (gentler stims? natural modified) given what you now know from this time around

In terms of the immunes tests, I don’t believe that Create offer the level 2 immunes tests for NK cells etc (i.e. the Chicago tests) although my consultant says he doesn’t find the tests terribly reliable and treats empirically with steroids, intralipids and clexane (e.g. in cases of autoimmune history or implantation failure of a good quality blastocyst)

But again, if you’re concerned about the immunes protocol and being treated empirically, deffo worth asking them to give you some reassurance

Extra hugs to indecisive

Wow shellster you must be so excited to meet your bubba! Remind me (preggo brain!), do you know what flavour you’re having?

AFM, we went for a sneaky reassurance scan at the weekend, little bean looked less like a prawn and more baby shaped; we even got emailed little videos, which I can’t stop replaying to hear that little heartbeat again! 9+2 today, Panorama test + scan on Monday @ 10 weeks, just hope this one hangs on tight!

Thank you for the hugs, need them x

Sorry you are feeling so bad indecisive , only a day to go though and you will know. I didn't have any symptoms really and I got another negative so your symptoms may be a good sign you never know

I have a follow up yes, and I'm a bit annoyed tbh. In October after my failed cycle I had a follow up included. It was either positive and you get a scan or negative and you get a follow up ......
Well now it seems that if your test is positive the scan is included (scans are £175 on their own usually) yet if is a negative the follow up ISNT included and is £150
It's not much in the grand scale of IVF costs but really annoyed me for some reason :(

Will soon find out. My boobs were so sore (they always are bad at time of month anyway) but not anymore they have stopped hurting completely but still got sharp pains that have actually stopped me in my tracks today and normal period cramps.

That would really piss me off too waiting it's one cost after another isn't it and u begin to feel like they just don't give a shit!
Hugs to u too.

Good luck for testing tomorrow indecisive I've got everything crossable crossed for you xx

Thanks waiting that's sweet of you after what your going through.....but bfn :(

I'm so sorry indecisive

It's horrible isn't it. I hope you are ok xx

Just feel numb to be honest like what's the effing point. I'm very lucky I have an amazing little boy who's 4 so will focus on that but he desperately wants a brother or sister and I feel like a complete failure as a mother. Worst thing is I don't think I can do this again...

Oh indescisive, I feel terribly for you. I too have a little boy who is 4 and so I know exactly how you feel. It was him who I felt like I failed the most each time an IVF cycle failed. When you say you don't feel you can go through it again, are you referring to financially or emotionally? Whatever the reason, we are here if you need to rant. Wish there was more I could say to fix things as I know just how gut wrenching it is.

Thanks shellster, it's so heart wrenching isn't it! Dont get me wrong financially it would be a struggle but think we could "manage" but I don't think my body or mind could take it any more I already feel close to a break down :(