Any success stories and ideas for secondary infertility?

[Annabellaboo]

Hello ladies.
I am hoping to get some ideas and support on here.
I am 35 years old, very healthy with a 3 year DS. We have been trying to conceive our second child for 2 years now. I became pregnant very easily with my first and had an easy pregnancy.
This time nothing.
I have had all the tests the nhs provides. Progesterone normal, I ovulate, DH sperm count is normal, no blockages etc etc. I have tried charting, ov sticks, changed my already pretty healthy diet (cut out refined sugars and have lots more greens etc, and alkalised my body). I take advised supplements and have even tried acupuncture.
I do however have short cycles, sometimes as short as 21 days but averaging 24. This is a little shorter than I had before my DS.
We cannot afford IVF and I am not sure I can face that anyway.
My consultant last month has prescribed me a half dose (25mg) of clomid, which a scan showed on the first round it definitely boosted things even more with a good few mature follicles. I already ovulate but she thought as my cycles are quite short and a little irregular it may give me a boost.
I have been convinced several times I was pregnant (oh how cruel our bodies and brains can be!) but AF always turns up.
I guess what I am asking is does anyone have any other suggestions of things I could try or why I can't conceive time. I am open to theories and alternative methods.
Any experience in this subject and success stories please share.
I try not to stress about it all, but some months it just really gets you down as there is no real 'reason'. The hard thing is watching other mums around get pregnant multiple times so easily.
Thank you for listening!
Anna

Oops! Long thread again!! Sorry!

Hi Hippy, short post from me as I should be working not loitering on mumsnet, but I think I'm the opposite. I feel like we have exhausted all natural options. We have tried SO hard, every single month for the last 3 years and nothing. For the sake of what is left of my sanity IVF is now the only option for us.

Hey just a quick drop in! Had our second IVF appointment. They said my womb lining is very thin and could be a result from scarring from my emergency c section. Going for another look in a month to put water in or something to check it out properly. They say it's something to get round with IVF so trying to remain hopeful. It will mean we probably can't do IVF until at least January if I need surgery.

Hippy- I'm with closephine- tried SO hard every month for years and nowhere! X

Quick drop in too, but in answer to your question hippy, we've tried really hard EVERY month which is what worries me as it makes me Hui there must be something properly wrong.

Katy- I was also told womb lining looked thin (though i had natural delivery).
Did they say whether this would affect chances of IVF? It's something I worry about.
So sorry u have to wait even longer- so frustrating for you.

Hippy - you are bringing me round to the idea of acupuncture- sounds lovely. I've always been a big advocate of meditation too though find it difficult to actually stick to in reality.

Hi guys, just to quickly drop in and say - I hope that didn't sound callous!! Of course we have been trying hard too - but I always look back and find an excuse for why it didn't happen. I'm almost TOO optimistic, if that doesn't sound stupid! I'm like that with my weight - I think I'm thinner than I am, then when I see pics, I'm always surprised!! I have had a few months where we stopped trying, as I was finding it too stressful - as I was very stressed at work, and it felt too much. Anyway, I'm sorry, I know how hard it is. And I totally get why most of you are doing IVF. I'm just scared of it I guess. And can't afford it... xx

Rose- she said it shouldn't affect IVF they would adjust my drugs so it thickens and if it's not thick enough by transfer I will do it with a frozen cycle. Of course I then googled it and read bad things! Weirdly I had this test in January and the lady commented my womb was nice and thick the week before my period. So no idea what's going on! My DH is refusing to let me get down though. He's calling it a hiccup! She said my egg reserve is good so that's a good thing I need to cling on to!

Hippy- that made me laugh about photos! I do the same and am shocked when I see a picture of me! We have just about got enough for one round at the moment and it sickens me the cost. X

Hi everyone!

Closephine - Thank you! All is going well, it still feels so surreal, we realize how incredibly lucky we are.

I've been thinking of you all a lot. And wishing you all strength and fistfulls of baby dust.

Hippybird - You remind me of myself. I tried everything under the moon to increase our odds naturally. I followed the advise in "The Infertility Cure: The Ancient Chinese Wellness Program for Getting Pregnant and Having Healthy Babies" and "Making Babies: A Proven 3-Month Program for Maximum Fertility" to a T for over a year, did fertility yoga 4-days a week, cut out caffeine, alcohol, ate an alkaline diet, went to a fertility acupuncturist weekly, took fistfuls of supplements and encouraged my husband do the same. In the end, it just wasn't enough alone. Our issue was male factor, and although the changes helped my husband's morphology significantly his count continued to decline drastically.

Maybe all of the natural steps we took helped us beat the odds and conceive with our first medicated IUI - we were given less than a 3% rate of success with DH's low SC (less than 1 million). But, for me, some of it caused a lot of stress and cost. I wish I only did what made me feel good and didn't stress about perfection. Fertility and this waiting without end is already so so hard. So be good to yourself, and natural and medical treatment doesn't need to be exclusive, they can work together nicely.

Hi Jenny, thanks - that was really good to hear. And probably good for me to face up to the fact we probably will need some medical intervention, given my age. Hopefully we'll get the results of DH's sperm analysis this next cycle, and then I can get some more investigations done. Given my irregular cycles, and light flow, can anyone here give me advice on the best tests to get done?
Katy - your DH sounds great - it's so important to have supportive partners in these instances. Is this your first cycle? When will you be having the first transfer!! I'll cross my fingers very tightly for you!!
Rose, yes, I would really recommend accupuncture!!
We've got my sister and her two youngest coming for the weekend (she has four!! How can our family fertility be that wonky!!), and her youngest is only about 10 weeks old, so hopefully having a few baby cuddles will give me a boost of the right hormones!!

Hi hippy I would say the first year and a half was just wel come of birth control and itl happen then my oh sufferd from depression so was on anti depressants but I still tried opk etc.iv only just started supplements etc in the last 6 months and making sure we baby dance as much as possible in fertile window my oh wasn't as keen but I'd say he's now really getting to grips that it's just not happening like he thaught it would.I didn't think ivf would be for me either but we have been discussing it recently but it would take years to save and I feel like if I stared it I'd want to keep going till it happend like my sil it took them 7 goes and the one that worked they done egg share to cut the cost but was still 4000 but they now have a beautiful 5 yr old boy so I guess it's just an individual choice if it's not for you then it's not xx

hippy since I started ttc aside from 3 months we've tried really hard. Dtd every day in fertile window, temping, opks, supplement etc. The one month I did get pregnant only did twice the day before & day after ov. Took month off when I had a lapersocopy and didn't bother too much last month either. I don't even know if I ovulate properly. I get crosshairs most months but not on the temp only setting. I've had blood tests confirm I haven't ovulated when ff has said I did - I used to think the CB advanced digital opk didn't work as ff would tell me I ovulated but the opk never went to peak. I now know I haven't been ovulating regularly or maybe only weakly ov for about 18 months. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle and stupidly at every start of af I put on a brace face and get optimistic that maybe this is my month. Oddly in December I knew on day 1 of my cycle I'd get pregnant that month (even tho we barely had any sex) but as soon as I got the bfp I knew it wasn't going to last. It's a bit woo but it's the same way I know by 4/5dpo that its not my month, even although it's too early for implantation.

Hi ladies. Hippy-I do understand what you are saying and have felt that in the past too (earlier on more so). But I had to face the reality that actually we really have tried very hard every month for over 2 1/2 years now. However, after a lot of soul searching I have pretty much decided that Ivf is not for me, even though I did consider it seriously not long ago. I will never say never but I doubt it. If I could know it would work perhaps I would, but to go through it all with no guarantee I just don't think I can face it. I also believe it wouldn't work for me if I have issues conceiving because of my autoimmune issues. I do believe it helps enormously to feel you are doing everything possible to make it happen naturally so I urge you to keep up everything. I do like the sound of that book thank you. It will be my next trial after the one I am about to embark on. I have decided to go on an extreme autoimmune 30 day reset diet. It basically consists of eating only meat, veg and bone broth. Then I will slowly reintroduce certain food to try and determine which ones trigger my digestive issues. It is going to be really hard and I'm not looking forward to it, but I really feel I have to try, not just for my fertility but also for my gut as it's often not happy. I always feel better if I am being proactive and trying another angle.
Jenny-so happy all is going well with your pregnancy, so nice to have a positive reminder on here.
AF is due any day. It is a little late which I expected as I ovulated late this month. Pretty convinced I am not preggers so not getting excited. We have just had the most wonderful weekend at an amazing wedding that was 2 days of partying and was just what I needed. In those moments I really do forget about my issue and am just living happily in the moment and enjoying all I have...And then I see another mummy with 2 or 3 kids and pray we will be so lucky some day soon. Still, not dwelling on it. Plus my DS gave me the best sleepy cuddle for ages today and I honestly felt in that moment that all was perfect and my life was complete.

I love sleepy cuddles. DD is 7 now so they don't happen as often. I miss that :(

So I'm 12dpo and have the odd twingey cramp which is unusual for me. It's usually full on cramping just before af -due tomorrow. It's wishful thinking that this will be a nice minimal pain period. Oh but I can dream.

Took an opk today as I don't have any hpt (because what is a luteal phase without obsessively peeing on a stick?) It was positive - 2days ago there was no second line at all. Now I'm fairly certain I'm not pregnant (no symptoms) and that af is about to start, so why is the opk detecting lh as being high? Does it get high just before af? (Ha lucky lh!)

Anna that's a hard plan I really hope it works for you it's nice to here you felt complete with your sleepy cuddle as hard as it is I do try to think how lucky I have my son as there's people who have none.
Bloop that's interesting a new twinge que the 2 days of googling I hope it means good things!!i am a poas addict myself I always have a second line no matter when I do a opk but if it's a possitive it could mean somthing I get nearly positives two days before af i did admit I'm an addict but never a blazing positive.keep checking in finger crossed it's some more good news xx

Back to square one. Af arrived :(

Ah pants sorry bloop. Mine has got me today too after 6 days of spotting. I guess that's an improvement on the 14 last month but still not great.

I've just disgraced myself. It's ds's birthday and his first one at school/not with me. Obviously I started crying in the classroom and couldn't gain control of my emotions. People were looking at me as though I was totally nuts!

bloop how disappointing - I would have got my hopes up too! So sorry - lots of nourishing, good things for you! x

closephine sorry for you too! No matter how much you tell yourself that spotting will lead to your period, it's still hard not to have a little bit of hope... Remind me about your spotting - is it new for these last two cycles?

Anna what you say really resonates. I think that is my feeling about IVF - apart from not being able to afford it, I also feel that I couldn't put myself through it while knowing it might not work. I hate PMT, let alone what IVF would do to my hormones... And I am totally with you on wanting to feel pr-active, that's why I like Emma Cannon's books, as they give you lots of practical things to do. For example, I just ate lots of aubergine and beetroot, as that is what I am supposed to do to help bloodflow during my period. Then I'm supposed to eat different things during the follicular phase.

Cycle wise, I'm on CD4 now, and I'm hoping I can hold out until at least CD10 this cycle. I'm hoping the various supplements I'm taking will mean my cycles might regulate even further, and I might even ovulate nearer CD14, but we'll see.

closephine sorry about your school breakdown - poor you. How old was was he? x

Closephine such a shame hope you enjoy the rest of the day with him xx
Bloop I'm so sorry I felt like such a Debbie downer but I now use opk near af to know it's coming keep your chin up on to a new cycle fingers crossed this is the one.
I'm cd 8 full house is down with a bug so I doubt il catch my ovulation on cd 10 gutted xx

Sorry close and bloop to hear the witch had turned up. I however am wanting mine to show as I know it's on its way but I am 5 days late which is unusual for me. I did a test and its negative so I know I am not preggers. I ovulated late so knew this may be the case. This has happened probably about 4 times at most in the last 2 1/2 years and I was always convinced in the past that I was pregnant as I usually have short cycles. I would always test like a crazy person and never get a bfp (apart from a couple of evap lines) but I was still convinced I must be as I was 'never late'. Now I know better and realise that each time I was a bit late was probably due to ovulating later. That's disappointing in some ways as I now don't think I probably ever even had a chemical.
So It seems that I can't implant. How will I ever be able to carry a baby again?! I was reading about certain matches, if you and your partner have the same or similar genotype the embryo is rejected as its too similar to partners, which will result in no implantation. Sounds likely for me as there is no other physical reason for no pregnancy. apparently the nk killer cells can be suddenly awoken after the first child if carried to full term. But that means getting all those expensive immune tests that I considered before, and it's still such a controversial area and such a minefield. Often the treatment included in treating nk cell issues is baby aspirin and prednisone (steroids).
Very naughtily thinking of self diagnosing and prescribing?! Hell I'll try anything, and I do genuinely have RA so would likely be prescribed the steroids anyway. Hey little Miss believe in natural healing is considering a v different medical route!
Too crazy and desperate?!! Feel free to talk some sense into me, I will probably chicken out anyway!

Hi Anna nothing worse than late af when you know your not pregnant cause you still secretly hope itl be a bfp!id prob give anything a try but I think for every reason to try something that help there seems to be somthing that it causes would you get prednisone off the doctor?iv never been gave that for my ra but I just got a kenlog injection and ofcourse read it can cause infertility I did take a baby aspirin last cycle but then forgot to take it lol if you truly believe that's what's causing it I would give a go before spending all that money on the tests first xx

Hi Anna, how many dpo are you? I would only count AF as 'late' if you're more than 14dpo? If not, you could still be testing too early.

AF turned up this evening as expected. Onto the next.... Low dose aspirin and my extreme diet is my next plan

Sorry Anna - I've been tempted by low dose aspirin too. Can it cause any harm/what dose are you supposed to take?

They always say my lining is fine, but I'm not convinced it's wonderful, always seems to be around 8mm and I thought 12 was optimal. Also on one occasion I had a scan just after I'd ovulated (the evening before the scan) and it was only 5mm - it had previously been 8. Something just before ovulation. Surely I need the lining to stick about for anything to implant!?

Hi close-from what I read baby aspirin shouldn't cause any negative side affects unless you have certain medical conditions or on specific medication which I am sure neither apply to us. I figure it's worth a go for a few months. The low dose is apparently 75mg. It used to be called baby aspirin but isn't any more, it's just low dose. Apparently you have to ask at the chemist as its behind the counter but they will sell it to you no questions asked (not sure how I would answer that one?!!!)

Anna I really wouldn't take prednisolone unless you really have to. It's a hideous medication that causes lasting damage. I have a love hate relationship with it. Love it as it makes me feel so well when I have to take it but hate it as I'm left with thin skin and penchant for bruising, 4 stone I'll never lose, osteopenia, and rotting teeth (never so much as had a filling until pred) and more I just don't know about yet. I was on it for 3 years at high doses but it's an absolute bastard to get off. I hated having moonface and the buffalo hump and it's taken 2 years to lose them and look remotely normal. If you have to take it please only do socunder medical supervision.

Yes I agree with bloop, be careful with pred Anna- it's seriously strong stuff that has horrible side effects and should only be taken for long periods if absolutely necessary. Have they def diagnosed you with RA if you don't mind me asking? If so then normally you'd have to take quite strong meds but there are different types of arthritis so just wondering if it was definitely that one?

So sorry to hear about AF, closephine, Anna and bloop- have I missed anyone? Seems like everyone getting them atm and I'm waiting to join you this weekend.

I feel like I'm in this weird slightly denial phase atm, not really thinking about the fertility, probably also because lots going on with new job and dd's new nursery. But every time I do think about it I get a bit anxious like I forgot it was happening. Does anyone else ever get that?! Sorry that probably makes no sense at all.