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Infertility

Our Infertility Support forum is a space to connect with others in the same position, discuss causes, treatment and IVF, and share infertility stories of hope and success.

Infertility Rant!

479 replies

loopylou1984 · 18/07/2015 08:17

Thread two moving on from infertility meltdown!
Feel free to join us to rant about any part of the infertility journey Smile

OP posts:
loopylou1984 · 28/11/2015 09:10

Congratulations chops! Enjoy your boy :).

Shell - we actually tested this morning because dh was home with me and its bfn on a FRER so I think it's failed. I'm feeling really sad and broken. Dh would make an amazing dad and I'm stopping him from doing it. We now have to get through Xmas with a new born niece and Xmas with my pregnant cousin knowing that we couldn't even conceive with a perfect embryo being put in. Shell - how do you get through this? Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 28/11/2015 19:36

Oh Sammy, I know how heartbreaking it is and I feel for you so much knowing what you are going through right now. I went through four Christmases whilst TTC and each one felt progressively worse. Each one, we'd done more treatment that year which had failed, each one I was another year older and getting ever closer to 40 making me feel more like it would never happen, and each one, someone would have reproduced that I would have to deal with. I was usually quite strict on my diet in the lead up to and during IVF but after a failure, I let it all go and loaded myself with carbs and a few drinks. I then felt guilty for doing that because I knew I was ruining any future chance (but I never had any frosties so my eggs were still inside me succumbing to the numbing effect I was trying to get from the alcohol!), so I forced myself to eat healthy and try again because after I couple of weeks I would feel like trying again was better than feeling this hole in my heart forever.

I can't remember exactly how old you are and what percentage of your embryos would be genetically normal. I was 38 just 2 days after my last transfer took place and even though two looked top quality and both were transferred, only 1 took. So something must have been genetically not right with the others - it has nothing to do with the way they look under the microscope. But I think you were younger than me and with you having had 5 embryos frozen, there is sure to be a few normal ones in there if that was the case.

Before my last two transfers, I also included 'the scratch' on day 20/21 of the cycle prior. My usually thin lining would always be thicker the following cycle. Prior to my last two transfers, I had 3 embryos transferred, all of which resulted in a BFN. But my second last transfer after the scratch resulted in a m/c and my last transfer obviously resulted in my current pregnancy, so I highly recommend it. I can't remember the stats right now but I read an article saying that when the lining was between 9/10 - 14mm, the chance of implantation was optimal, and when less than this, the stats were significantly lower (will have to find the article again). The scratch always ensured my usually thin lining was within this optimal thickness. Previous Dr's would say my lining was fine if it was at 7-8mm, but I had read what the stats were. So I hope knowing you can have the scratch gives you some hope for your future embryos. I also had acupuncture both before and after transfer on the day of my last two transfers, after having read a study online showing that the stats were significantly higher for those that had acupuncture on day of transfer than those that did not.

Sorry to write a novel here. I just know that was my way of coping - trying to be practical and come up with practical things I could do different in my next cycle to give me hope for the future. I hope it helps you too. xox

loopylou1984 · 28/11/2015 22:00

Thanks Shell, that's very useful, I like to have a plan so may take your lead on some of those things.

I've heard from a couple of people that lining thickness should be at least 8mm and I'm wondering why my clinic says 6.5 is ok if that's true? Im feeling very guilty for having that embryo put in to an insufficient lining :(. Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 29/11/2015 01:53

Oh no, didn't mean to make you feel guilty sammy. But you don't know what your actual lining thickness was anyway do you? My first doctor at a cheap clinic didn't think the lining needed to be as thick as I had read either. When I could see reasons why that clinic was cheap and how it was compromising my cycle, I moved on to Monash IVF and initially had one appointment with a male Dr where I said I was concerned about my thin lining and he just brushed me off saying that anything above 4mm was thick enough! So I didn't stick with him and found a Dr who does the endo scratch.

You can't blame yourself. You put your trust in the competence of the doctors which you should rightly be able to do after paying them so much money. I think they genuinely believe that 6.5 is okay - but they are not as particular as we are with our research when it's our dream on the line. If it were people like you and me working at these clinic who understood what women go through, I am sure we would be collating data on different lining thicknesses and tallying up the stats to give women the best results!

loopylou1984 · 29/11/2015 09:49

It's not your fault shell, I was feeling like it anyway. I can't stop thinking of that little embryo barely even having a chance in my broken body.

My clinic is a care fertility clinic, so I don't think they're particularly cheap and I can't really go anywhere else without quitting my job, it would just take too long for each scan etc if I had to drive further. I don't think the branch I go to does the scratch, but the London clinic does so I could maybe go there for that. I really just want to go and see the consultant now and make a new plan. Xx

OP posts:
RogueV · 29/11/2015 11:27

Sammy Flowers

Congratulations chops!

loopylou1984 · 29/11/2015 14:36

Well I'm bleeding so that's that. Dh not home so he doesn't know yet.

I don't have any hope of getting a natural bfp so here's waiting until January I guess. Xx

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RubySlippers77 · 29/11/2015 15:57

Oh Sammy, sorry to hear that. I imagine you are feeling utterly shit but please know we are all thinking of you and sending lots of hugs.

As Shell suggested, I found the best way to deal with each disappointment was to think: what can I do differently next month? Even if it was just something to make me feel better (a nice facial or massage) rather than something like a diet or exercise change, it would still help me a bit.

And your body is not broken at all!! We all know you are amazing Smile

chopsface · 29/11/2015 18:27

Massive hugs sammy I'm so sorry it didn't work. You poor poor thing. Lots of love to you and dh. Take care if each other over the Xmas period and let your body recover x x x

loopylou1984 · 29/11/2015 18:49

Chops bless you for coming on here to think of me.
Hope you're enjoying every minute with your little boy?
We'll be ok, we both feel like we just need a plan, fx we can see the consultant for our follow up soon, then we can relax and enjoy Xmas with a plan of action ready for the new year. Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 30/11/2015 01:04

That was exactly my reactoin sammy - I too just wanted to have my next IVF plan in place so I could focus on the next step instead of dwelling on the failure of this one. You are so strong to get up and do that.

And yes, your body is definitely not broken. You have an AMH of 19!!! That shows your fertility is amazing. Mine was only 2.5 back when I was 35 and I got my BFP at age 38. You did amazing to produce a whopping 5 day five embryos. Do you know how rare that is amongst IVF patients!!!! That honestly shows the quality of your eggs. Of my 11 IVF attempts, I only had 4 transfers because the other 7 cycles were either cancelled due to poor response or not a single embryo survived to transfer day.

I can't recall your age? There are stats for different ages showing the percentage of eggs that are genetically abnormal so perhaps this was the reason and nothing to do with your body failing the embryo at all. I had two embryos transferred and only one took, so obviously the lining was good enough for one of my embryos and yet the other did not implant.

Sounds like a good idea to see where else you could have the scratch done and hopefully that will give you new hope for the new cycle. xox

loopylou1984 · 30/11/2015 08:04

But what use is a good AMH if no embryos can implant? - sorry that sounds so negative doesn't it? I'm really trying to be more positive...

I'm 30... Although was 29.5 when the eggs were collected back in July.

It turns out my clinic do have the scratch on the price list, so will speak to consultant about it when we have our follow up. Xx

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loopylou1984 · 30/11/2015 22:06

Spoke to one of the nurses today, and she's asked me to test on Wednesday anyway 'just in case' - but she's put us on the list for Wednesday's clinical review.

I mentioned my concerns over lining and she said that their cut off used to be 8mm, but that after several medical studies etc they had changed it to 6.5mm. Regardless she is going to ask the consultant to consider what they could do to increase my lining.

Interestingly I got a copy of our nhs referral lettering the post today which includes all our test results, and my lining on cd15 at my ultrasound back in April was only 5.7mm.
My AMH though has increased from 19 in July to 25.4 in September???

Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 01/12/2015 03:06

You are allowed to feel negative now sammy after what you've just endured. I have an IVF meditation/hypnosis DVD that I no longer need. Can I offer it to you? The first track is for the first two weeks of an IVF cycle that perhaps doesn't 100% apply to you since you will not be going through egg collection. But even if you listen to it in the first two weeks of your next FET cycle, even if all the words don't apply, perhaps it could help your mind be calmer, and hence your fertility hormones working more optimally in preparation for the embryo transfer. The second track if for after the transfer, so that would obviously apply whether it is a fresh or frozen cycle. If you'd like it, just PM me your address and I can post it to you.

Glad you've got a follow up appointment on Wednesday as part of the process of helping you move forward. The nurses sound very knowledgeable and informative. So did you actually find out what your lining was this cycle, or just that it must have been at least 6.5 to meet their minimum requirements? I can understand you being concerned if it was only 5.7 back in April - although I guess it depends if you were about to ovulate or if ovulation was still a few days away, since I know the estrogen levels (which is what thickens the lining) only start to really surge when the follicles are at a certain size. Either way, the scratch DEFINITELY helped thicken my usually thin lining, so I am glad your clinic offers it.

loopylou1984 · 01/12/2015 18:11

Yes please shell! When I can get on the laptop I'll pm you my address. I'll give anything a try!

The meeting on Wednesday is the clinical review - we aren't involved. They will decide what they think is the best plan and then discuss it wit us.

Lining was 6.9 at transfer, the clinic thinks that's perfect, but everyone I speak to on here says it needs to be 8mm.

I'm booked in for a counselling session on Tuesday too, never done anything like that before, but fx it will help. Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 01/12/2015 20:41

I see I've got a PM so I assume that's your address sammy and will try to get down to the post office today :)

Oh okay, it's a clinical review. Things must happen differently there than over here. I just saw my Dr after each failure and we come up with a new plan. So when or how will you be informed of what was discussed and decided?

I was just trying to have a quick 'Dr Google' to find the actual study I read where the results were that a lining of 9-14mm results in optimal implantation rates, but I can't find it, although like you say, a few of the websites that I read seem to suggest 9 is the minimum, with some saying 8 is okay. For me, I had low fertility with an AMH of only 2.5 and shorter cycles of 24-25 days. Our cycles apparently get shorter as we head towards menopause. So it made sense why my lining was not as thick. But the big question for you is - why is your lining not thicker than 6.9 when you are not near 40, your AMH is through the roof and you have normal length cycles????

If it was me and my obsessive research ways that I had when I was trying to find logic for another IVF failure, that is what I would be trying to get answers to.

Alright - let's see if that's you who PM'd me...

loopylou1984 · 01/12/2015 21:42

Shell - no, not me yet! Gah, stupid phone site won't let me set a recipient!! Could you pm me first and I'll reply with my address?

They will call me on thurs/fri to let me know the outcome, and I think we then have a follow up appointment.

The only explanation I can think of for my lining is long term use of the pill, if my clinic don't think it's a problem do you think I should still be pushing for some sort of intervention? Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 02/12/2015 06:22

That PM actually turned out to be a lady who I used to chat to on here. She's had a horrible six years. Miscarriages, then hit 40 and went down the IVF route 2 or 3 times with no success. Then moved on to donor eggs and had quite a few transfers of that too which I thought would surely work but still no success. She finally just had success with her final donor egg!! Because I chatted to her for so long on here I felt invested in her outcome, but that is probably not exciting news to you at all - you just want it to be your turn! So anyway, just co-incidence that she PM'd me on the day you were planning to.

At least Thursday / Friday isn't too long to wait for an update. And then a follow up apptointment not too far after that. I always used to like having dates and appointments in the near future as stepping stones to my next IVF as the month or two wait between IVF cycles seemed like forever. That could make sense about long term use of the pill affecting your lining. Ha, to think I had implanon for six years and you were on the pill. I certainly won't be worrying about contraceptive after this! I do think you should push for some sort of intervention if you feel that another failure with another lining less than 8-9mm is going to make you forever wonder 'what if...'. Personally, I wanted the scratch and Viagra pessaries, as I had read that these help to thicken a thin lining. The first time she said I don't need it but the second time I had a line prepared along the lines of 'I know the clinic doesn't think my lining is an issue, but I can't afford to continue IVF anymore and this is my last chance, so I would really like to be prescribed Viagra pessaries so I can have peace that I did all I could instead of wonder 'what if', and then she just prescribed it to me with no hesitation.

Yep, I'll PM you now and hopefully that will enable you to reply.

loopylou1984 · 03/12/2015 07:33

I thought I replied yesterday but Mumsnet ate my post!

I love hearing series of such well deserved bfps, congratulations to your friend!

Yes, I won't be going on the pill ever again, if by some miracle we get the ideal number of children then dh can have the snip!

I think I'll get a call from the clinic today. Meanwhile I have a whole list of things I'm going to try to thicken up my lining, including:

Hot foot baths
Femoral artery massage
Hot water bottle on tummy
CQ10
20 minute walk each day
Fertility yoga position
More sleep
Ha.

How are you doing? Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 03/12/2015 20:28

Yes, those things sound familiar from when I was trying to thicken mine. I remember doing femoral artery massage - something no one else on the planet would have heard of unless you've been through IVF and worried about lining thickness! At least it gives you something practical to focus on and do now while you are back in the waiting game. Looking forward to hearing what your clinic has come up with. Really hope they suggest the scratch so your mind is at ease that you don't have to argue with them for it. I wanted it to thicken my lining which it definitely did, but my Dr said it is thought to help because it creates some auto immune response in the uterus which aids implantation, so it must do more than one thing.

I am very well thank you. 24 weeks tomorrow. I just had really awful treatment by the hospital with my first sons birth, which resulted in post natal depression and me TTC number 2 just four months after his birth as I felt I had missed out on the mother child bonding experience as a result and was desperate to have another chance at it (little did I know what lay ahead!). So all my paranoia is now about how this birth will go. I have written a birth plan to avoid the same disasters that happened the first time, but you never know how birth will go and if the Drs/nurses will listen to my piece of paper with instructions so I will just be relieved when that is over with and it's all a count down to that. Part of me is hoping that by the time the labor is to intense for me to handle that I am telling hubby to get me to the hospital, the baby pops out in the car on the way so I don't have to worry about hospital interference again!

loopylou1984 · 03/12/2015 21:01

I know, it's crazy the things I've learned on this journey! Haha!
I've twice made it clear that I'm concerned about my lining, so I'm hoping they have a plan. They genuinely think 6.5 is fine though, so I'm not sure how much to expect.
Does the scratch hurt? I'm a bit scared of it. At what point in your cycle do they do it?

You poor thing, that sounds awful.
Could you have a home birth? My sil is doing that and is feeling very relaxed about only having her dh and one midwife there. Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 04/12/2015 03:44

I thought about a home birth (although in some ways that makes me more scared because what if I can't handle the pain and want some gas), but the cost of having a private midwife is exorbitant and I'm still trying to repay my IVF debt so that I have $0 debt when I stop work, let alone any savings. So a home birth would mean even more debt. Just came back fro breast feeding group where some other mums had some good classes to recommend and books to read, so I am hoping they will help - but nothing can be known until the day comes!

Does the scratch hurt? Hmm, well I personally found it fine. I mean I could feel things happening down there but I definitely would not say painful. I went in with the attitude 'well, I am doing this because I want to give birth and that is going to hurt a hec of a lot more so I can deal with this'. Others on here have made comments that made it sound a lot more unpleasant than I found it, so perhaps my attitude helped, but I genuinely wouldn't say it was painful even with my 'can do' attitude. Have you had a HSG done? This isn't anywhere near as uncomfortable as a HSG. It is meant to be done around day 21 of the cycle prior to the IVF/FET cycle.

When is your SIL due? Is this her first birth or does she know what she's in for?

loopylou1984 · 04/12/2015 07:04

She's due on the 16th, and it's her third so she knows what she's in for!

The home birth thing would not be for me, personally I would want access to doctors/surgery just in case anything went wrong!
Sounds like a good plan to clear the debt, and I'm sure your bad experience last time was just bad luck, it will be fine this time round.

I had hycosy which I gather is pretty much the same as hsg? Ok, well I can cope with that if its what they suggest. Xx

OP posts:
loopylou1984 · 04/12/2015 07:24

Just thought though, my day21 is going to fall around Christmas time so I would probably have to wait until February for the scratch if that is the route they suggest. Xx

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 04/12/2015 10:47

In a way, your SIL's story is more reassuring. If it was her first, I would think that the reason she is having a home birth is because she has no idea what she is in for. But the fact that it's her 3rd and yet she feels she can cope without pain relief at home makes me think that perhaps this time won't be so bad either.

I gather that maybe we just have different terms for things over here? HSG stands for hysterosalpingogram where they insert a tube through your cervix and flush dye to see if it goes through both of your tubes and your tubes are clear. Is that the same thing as a hyscosy? If so, in my experience, the scratch is no where near as uncomfortable as that!

But sounds frustrating if being able to have the scratch means having to delay things by an extra cycle due to your day 21 being around Christmas and I assume, when your clinic will be closed. I guess we are getting ahead of ourselves though. Just have to wait to see what the clinic say.