Would you be my Infertility/Clomid/Follicle tracking friend please?!

[scienceteachergeek]

Hi there ladies

I’m really looking for a ‘clomid friend’ or ‘infertility pal’!

I’m 30, DH is 38. I came off the pill July 2013 to regulate my cycles and ended 15yrs of antidepressants in March 2014 as I’d read that was the best plan if possible.

I’d been having regular 27/30day cycles since I came off the pill but after no positive tests, buying OPKs and the Clearblue Advanced Fertility Monitor, plus charting temps and monitoring my cervix and mucus it quickly became apparent that I wasn’t ovulating. After all the blood tests, sperm analysis, trans-vaginal scans and the HSG it showed that he was fine but I wasn’t ovulating, but there was not obvious reason why.

Fast forward to now, 2yrs since coming off the pill, I have been prescribed clomid and have taken my first 5 tablets. I’m day 12 today and have been having follicle tracking to check if the drugs have worked. My largest follicle was 16.4mm today and have to go back on Wednesday to check it again.

Do any of you know if that’s a good size? Or have any experiences of being further down the clomid path? Or are you in a similar position? I just feel like I’m going out of my mind and could really use a buddy!

Thanks for reading and hugs to you all. Interested in hearing from any of you xxx

Yep Vap so once the eggs are retrieved that’s when squeaky bum time really begins. So when you come around from sedation you get told how many eggs you got. If the sample is good enough for IVF then they leave the eggs and sperm overnight in the love lab to get jiggy overnight. If you need ICSI then the embryologists inject each mature egg (only mature eggs are suitable for ICSI) with a single sperm and leave them in the incubator overnight. Then you wait a nail-biting 24h for the call to find out how many have fertilised. Average is about 75% fertilisation rate although it obv varies massively.

It depends on how many good quality embryos you have as to when you’re scheduled for transfer. If you only have 2 then they’ll get you in on day 2 or 3 and bung them both in ASAP.

This is of course assuming that the lining is sufficient for transfer, which I'm hoping it will be!!

If at day 3 you have 3 or 4 but only a couple are of decent quality, they’ll usually pick the two best and transfer those.

If you have at least 3 good embryos on day 3, they will usually recommend extended culture - going to day 5, when the embryo is much more advanced, called a blastocyst. At day 3, it’s harder to know which one(s) to pick to transfer, if you have several to choose from. There’s usually quite a significant drop off between day 3 and day 5, as many embryos arrest before making it to blastocyst - so those that do make it to blast are more likely to be stronger embryos. There’s no guarantee that a good quality blastocyst is necessarily going to be chromosomally normal (a euploid or ‘competent’ embryo), but an embryo that doesn’t make it to day 5 would almost certainly not have made it in the womb, and wasn’t ever going to become a baby.

The guidelines say that if it’s your first cycle, you’re under 37 and you have good quality embryos, you should only transfer one blastocyst - as transferring two doesn’t significantly increase your likelihood of pregnancy (counterintuitively), but does give you a 50% chance of twins. So at our clinic, if you want to transfer two blasts, they make you sign a bit of paper to say you’re doing so against medical advice.

Then if you're really really lucky, they wait and see if anything left is of good enough quality to freeze.

I’m desperately hoping we’ll get enough decent embryos to be able to culture to blast - would be a dream come true to be able to go for a day 5 transfer.

So essentially the 3-5 days after egg collection are spent nervously waiting by the phone for updates!

OTD (official test date) varies by clinic, but it’s usually something like 12dp3dt (12 days post 3-day transfer) or 9dp5dt (9 days post 5 day transfer)

So it’s 2 weeks post egg collection - hence the 2ww

So, the next two weeks are the easy bit - it’s the 2ww that’s going to be the terrifying part!!

Wow wow lots of news.

banana thanks for the detail and breakdown of whats happening. Its so exciting for you that its finally happening now. Do you inject yourself or does DH do it for you? How long did it take you to "get used to" injecting the meds, if you ever do? If/when we get to that stage I'd have to do it all alone and although Im not THAT squeamish the idea of injecting myself does freak me out.

science yippeeeee! for more clomid. Where are you now in your cycle and when can you start the next clomid cycle?

Me... I have just been to the loo to the start of AF of course i knew this was coming but of course theres always the stupid hope you hold that the tests just aren't showing that bfp yet.

i so wish i could curl up with a glass of wine and feel sorry for myself. but instead I've got some online tutorials tonight for my spanish class and catch up of other assignments to do. somehow last october i thought it was a good idea to sign up to an OU degree coz i thought I had the time ha ha ha!

anyway. ..

DH and I spoke about the next step. Currently the next step is 2 more unmonitored Clomid cycles followed by/alongside an appointment with the specialist back at the fertility clinic sometime in Feb.

However we live half and half, half abroad.... so there is the option to fund IVF here and go for it sooner rather than later. I am growing thin of patience and feel like maybe it is just bad luck we haven't had a BFP yet while ovulating on Clomid, but also maybe its not going to happen on Clomid and something else is causing the problem so the next two cycles are a waste of time and pointless.

ahhhhhhh the annoyance, boredom, frustration, irritation, disappointment and stress of TTC..... sorry for the downer. of course its expected but still this thread was so full of positivity!!!!

Ah new leaf so sorry about AF, gutted for you!

Honestly, the anticipation of doing the first injection is the worst bit - once you’ve done the first one, it’s a doddle. They’re only subQ (subcutaneous) so you just jab it straight in your belly, and the needles are so teeny you can hardly feel them. I did all my own injections, I preferred doing it myself - after the first couple it’s a bit like autopilot tbh. When I was stimming last time DH and I would do them together like a little ritual - my Gonal-F (stim drug) came ready mixed in a rediject pen (like an epipen), but the Cetrotide (blocker) comes as a vial of powder that needs mixing up with a syringe of sterile water. So DH would get the Gonal-F out of the fridge 20 mins before it was time to inject, and would do the mixing and I’d do the injecting. He’d prep and I’d cook!

That said, during my 2.5 weeks of down regging, I just did the buserelin myself. It was a teeny syringe and a teeny vial of ready mixed liquid, and didn’t need to be refrigerated - so I shot up a few times out and about in restaurant toilets, or at work!

The only ones I’d have to get DH to do would be if I had to have progesterone injections, as they have to be given IM (intra muscularly) which means being jabbed in the buttock. Thankfully I only have to have the progesterone fanjo/bum-bullets - the nurse at my clinic said you can pop them up either the front or the back, both work equally well (‘why not swap em around and mix it up’ she said!)

If (and it’s a big if) it comes to IVF, you will, I promise be absolutely fine

Your plan sounds like a really solid one - can you combine a glass of Rioja with your Spanish homework for a bit of cultural immersion?!

xxx

I realised that saying 'I'd cook' made it sound an awful lot like cooking up heroin!! Poor use of metaphor there.....!

I would for the Rioja but it's dry January!

Ps to top it off ex bfs baby was born today.

And thanks for all the info on the meds, you're a brave gal cooking up and injecting yourself

I couldn't do the IM ones, I heard they really hurt too. Lucky u got the bum bullets....!! Much better option!

OMG ladies, I don't even know where to start, there have been so many posts! . Is it tragic that I really look forward to catching up on them?!

Vap - Sorry Miami will be a bit of a let down. Assuming you'd even want to, could you take annual leave and spend a few more days out there? It's mad that companies spend that sort of money on conferences/training sessions few only a few days!

It sounds like you definitely need a career change! I guess it's just a case of finding the right time to make the move and trying to get any experience you possibly can. If (FX) you're able to take maternity leave then that may be a good time to get some form of informal experience. Trying to think outside the box a little, could you volunteer with Brownies/Guides or something similar as a way of getting initial experience? I appreciate you probably couldn't do anything like that while you're in your current job . It's so hard once we're 'adults' and have commitments that take up lots of our time!

You make a very valid point about this whole experience giving us perspective. Hopefully if/when we become parents we'll be a lot more thankful than many people seem to be and won't get stressed over the small things that just don't matter!

Good luck with the scan. It's not long to wait now, although I expect it feels like an eternity! At the very least you can have a proper chat with a specialist, not just some GP who doesn't have a clue about fertility (and I don't mean to sound rude to GPs as I think they have such stressful jobs and it must be difficult needing to know a little about EVERYTHING!).

Science - That's awesome news about the Clomid. Good luck. How are you feeling about it all? Do you want to get back to TTC or have a bit of time to 'recover'?

Banana - Oh wow, advertising is so cool (although like you say, it's probably one of those jobs that sounds very glamorous but is anything but!). I'm a corporate lawyer. I no longer work in London so don't get the big bucks (I'd be on over double my salary now if I'd stayed there, which is pretty galling!) but the hours in this type of law are exactly the same as they are in London (i.e. ridiculous). I also have the disadvantage that this type of law is of no use to anybody in my 'normal' life (Sorry - don't know much about criminal law; don't have a clue about family/divorce law; would be negligent if I drafted your Will or commented on the Lease you've just entered into...if you want to sell your shares though, I'm your gal ).

I think you've hit the nail on the head about it being corporate life that's incompatible with any form of personal life. It's just accepted that people put up with conditions that no other job, except maybe medical jobs/the armed forces etc, would put up with. People don't realise that it's just not normal to ask someone to cancel their holiday because you "might need some help with something", or to tell someone they're going to have to go into work on Christmas Day for 12 hours etc "but [they] should make it home by the evening, which is good".

You have 100% done the right thing getting off the corporate ladder and I really respect people that have the balls to do that. It's so easy to get sucked into the mentality of 'if I leave then it's because I FAILED' or 'people will think I couldn't hack it so I better carry on so they think I can do it'. I think unless you're prepared for it to be the ONLY thing in your life and you WANT it to be the only thing (sod relationships, socialising, going to the gym, turning up to your friend's wedding etc) then there's no point being miserable sticking it out, because what is the ultimate gain? As glam as the Coca Cola campaign sounds (and it does sound highly glam!) you will be so much better off now.

As for Sheryl Sandberg, I haven't read 'Lean In' yet but I am looking at it as we speak (or more accurately: as I type) as it's one of my holiday reading books (we're going away at the end of the month). Once I've read it we'll have to compare notes . That's so funny that you helped with the EY project. We did quite a bit back then as well (especially following the Davies Report and legal changes around women on boards) and I got so many updates from the 'Big Four' and similar organisations!

Anyway, this is all highly boring for everyone except Flat and Banana .

As for the IVF stuff - that's amazing! It's also really interesting to see how the timetable will (hopefully) play out. Good luck with it all! Let us know when you get to each stage (assuming you feel like it. I totally understand if you want to hide away in bed all day at certain points!). Thanks for also explaining about more about ICSI. Those were the things I'd come across before, but I wondered whether there was other stuff that was some huge secret that nobody was allowed to tell me .

How's the diet going? A pint of milk? WTAF?

NewLeaf - I am sending the biggest hug. It f*cking sucks. No matter how much you know deep down that it's not going to happen, there's always that tiny part of you that wonders. Although we're generally fairly upbeat and positive at the moment, I think we've all been to some pretty dark places at times . You most definitely are not alone in wallowing for a bit.

That's great about the Spanish classes! Very impressive!

Banana - PMSL at the "cooking up" metaphor!

NewLeaf - Haven't you heard? The reason we haven't gotten pregnant yet is because we're all so highly strung and stressed, so all we need to do is get pissed and get laid!

Bloody hell guys! I've got so much to reply to, you've all been very busy posting! I've written a list of what I need to say to you all! Here I go...

Vap0, still wishing you the very best of luck. So glad you're keeping your appointment. I wish I'd kept mine for 18th October but I was pregnant then and after having that scan at 6weeks everything was beyond perfect. As long as your dates are all correct you should definitely see the heartbeat when it's time for your appointment, I did.

As for the tenants, they are frequent late payers, they've still not paid yet this month for example! The estate agents chase them and they haven't been anymore than 3 weeks late...YET!

As for the teaching, I do love it but it's very much a 24hr occupation for me, I'm sure Mr Vap0 works until late at night and weekends like me. I can give you lots of advice about getting into it though. I have trained in two different age ranges so have had more training than most! Teaching assistants in special schools get paid more as there is an extra allowance for that.

Flat, I'm not going to have any further time to recover. I asked the consultant that and she just said to go for it. She was wonderful. I cried when she told me she'd give me the drugs straight away!

Also, I had a strong feeling you were a lawyer. My sister is a commercial real estate lawyer. Your boss sounds like her boss, must be a law thing! I get the feeling that the higher you go up in that profession the more unkind you get and the more detached from real life you become.

Newleaf, I'm day 21 in my cycle so I expect AF next week. Then I restart the drugs on day 2. I'm so sorry things didn't work out for you this month. Interestingly, my consultant said that, as clomid has worked for me then they will probably just keep giving me the drugs as it's cheaper than giving me IVF! Clearly things aren't as rigid as they make out!!!

Banana, what wonderful news! 4% normal forms are totally and utterly normal, fear not! Can't wait to hear your updates!

Had a counselling appointment today, there's clearly no money available for mental health services since I was seen a few years ago. I told my life story of shit and she sent me on my way with 3 self help leaflets, entitled 'depression and low mood', 'bereavement' and 'sleeping problems'. The one trouble with explaining my life history is that not even therapists can hide how shocked they are at how shit life has been! You guys don't even know the half of it!

In other news, I want to thank you for all your best wishes and luck for my appointment. I felt like you were all in that waiting room with me and I really appreciated it. You guys rule xxxxxxx

Grrrr...typed a massive post on my phone then it froze and deleted. SO ANNOYING.

Science - It really does sound like you've had a shocking 31 years. You must be due some luck soon! If you ever want to talk to us about stuff other than fertility, we're here.

I am so sorry you've also struggled to get the help you need. It's appalling that there are so little resources directed at mental health and different forms of treatment to help MH issues, or even simply for people that have fallen on hard times. That's why I try and do as much fundraising as I can for charities such as Mind, although that doesn't even scratch the surface of what is needed . What options do you have in terms of professional help? Are you not allowed further NHS counselling? Have they offered you some of the cheaper services, such as telephone counselling? I had that a few years ago and TBF I quit after one call as I HATE talking to people on the phone, let alone people I don't know and who are asking intimate questions! If things are really bad it may be worth speaking to The Samaritans?

I know it's not for everyone, but I also try and do as much 'self-help' as possible when I'm feeling really low. I keep a diary, which I find really helps as I can vent away without fear of sounding like a moaner! There are also all types of forum for all types of problems (which I'm sure you know all about! I mean...we've 'met' on the Mumsnet Infertility forum!). I also try and read good 'positive thinking' books. Not wishy-washy-airey-fairy "learn to love yourself or nobody else will learn to love you" type shite, or "stand in front of a mirror and tell yourself you're amazing every morning" type crap. But there ARE good, sensible books out there that can give you some 'tools' for coping with certain things or processing things that happen.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I really do hope things pick up for you soon. Is Mr Science supportive? It sounds like he's had his fair share of difficulties lately. Be kind to each other. I'm trying to make an effort to be even nicer to my husband (not that I'm a horrible old hag normally!) as infertility, money worries, job worries and life stresses affect them every bit as much as they affect us...but they don't have a (decent) Mumsnet equivalent to rant on!

Oh dear, that's a bad sign that you thought I was a lawyer. I need to work on my personal skills then . Your sister is in a very similar type of law in terms of 'culture', so I'm sure she's had very similar experiences to me. You're spot on about the bosses! I have met a few partners who are really lovely, hard working, decent people...but I have met an awful lot who are pretty ruthless and uncaring and just focus on the £££. I think that's just a trait of anything 'corporate' though; if you look at criminal lawyers and other types of legal aid lawyers, or high street lawyers...basically any of the non-corporate types of law where they earn f*ck all, those lawyers tend to be much nicer, more well-rounded people (as a massive sweeping generalisation!).

Anyway ladies, on the plus side, tomorrow is FRIDAY! Wahooo! I cannot wait for the weekend .

My SIL is being induced tomorrow so her and BIL will become parents in the next few days. As I've mentioned before, they're about the only couple I know who I am genuinely really happy for, as they struggled with infertility for years, then had an ectopic and then also a miscarriage.

Wow busy times on our little thread here. hope everyone had a good Friday and ready for the weekend!

Clomid cycle 5 began tonight with a double whack of pills...

How are u doing banana? I wanted to ask about the embryos going back in... Is it the norm to put more than one? there is all this "one at a time" blurb going on at my clinic I guess about single births thru ivf.

I'm not feeling very positive this cycle have lost hope for a bit. Just waiting for consultation in Feb to request more investigations or something, anything...

vap how are u feeling?

A very early good morning to you all!

I hope you are all enjoying the fact it's the 1st weekend after being back at work as much as I am! It's been a tough week back being away 3 nights but it should mean I'm home for the next week maybe even 2 .

How is everyone?

banana these are exciting nerve wracking times for you! I hope your lining gets its act together and you get a whole load of good looking eggs from your harvest. Can't get the word harvest to translate into taking something out of the human body, all I can think is tractors and fields... Thanks for all of the explainations, i understand it all now (I think). How are you feeling at the min?

newleaf sorry about af. I know what you mean about thinking it is all just a pointless waiting game and having feelings it will never happen without IVF. I was convinced that without IVF I would never get pregnant and now I've done it 3 times in the last 5 months which is bloody good odds, especially after 23 long months of nothingness. I know it's easy to say when in my position but at least you have your IVF plans for after the next 2 clomid cycles. I really hope you don't need to go as far as IVF and the clomid pulls one out of the bag for you soon. How is dry January going? Was the 1st Friday night a wrench? Weekends are always the hardest! Hope he clomid went down well last night. Any side effects?

flat how are you getting on? Where are you up to in your cycle? Will you be able to dtd this month at the right time? Best of luck welcoming your new niece or nephew into the world today! I hope everything goes smoothly for them! It's always nice to hear a fellow infertile person who has made it out the other side. Like your idea of brownies etc and have done it in the past but generally don't get in until after 7 and by then am exhausted and have piles of work to get through if I have any energy reserves left so whilst I'm in this job there is no hope for it. However, hopefully mat leave is just around the corner....

science can't be long now until you start your clomid again! I hope you too are lucky again on clomid and don't need to go as far as IVF. Did they say they will do anything differently with drugs/tests or anutjijr else this time around considering your late loss? Hopefully the clomid will work ASAP. I'll bend your ear about teaching another time, thanks for the open door. At the min I'm just trying to get through January at work, which is always the hardest month preparing all of the customers for the coming year. I can't believe they can listen to your story and not throw money at helping to get you through things. Does your work provide a free counselling service? Mine does, it's one of the few benefits of the job. May be worth looking into, although I'm sure you already have. A positive thing for you though is that I was reading on one of the pregnancy forums about a girl who was a teacher and you get a bloody good package as a teacher for mat leave. Have you collected your clomid yet? I'm excited to hear when you start taking it! Wishing you all the luck for January 2016!

Not much going on here which is a total delight to report. No more spotting since 01/01 and 03/01 and both times it was very very light, one wipe and it's gone. I've past danger day number 1 which was yesterday. Danger day number 2 is Wednesday. Everything is crossed at the min. Had loads of cramping yesterday which is always terrifying after having mc but hopefully things appear to be ok. Today marks 5w. Exciting times. A week on Monday we will hopefully have a scan with the infertility Dr and science I hope you're right that we can see a heart beat then! It will be amazing! According to the ovia pregnancy app on my phone it says that the heart beat has probably started beating by today! And the placenta connected last week. I'm trying my best not to get my hopes up but I am clinging onto 3rd time lucky theory. No symptoms to speak of, slightly sore boobs and I've been awake since 4.45 which is totally unlike me but other than that nothing at all. I'm inspecting loo roll like a lunatic at the min but the lack of spotting is keeping me relaxed which is good news. You never know! We may even have a pic to share with you a week on Monday.... Luckily I've only really wanted to eat healthy food, unlike me, I usually love a happy meal but I'm not a all interested in them at the min, give me an apple/banana/nectarines/ pack of celery over a chicken nugget. So will certainly be getting my 5 a day . We have also booked some holiday dates. We are going sailing in April (if we can get other people to come, I'm not being the only other person on a boat when I could be ill and not much help) and a hot beach type holiday in May! If all goes to plan I'll be finishing work just before dp's birthday at the end of July. Dp won't talk about it all yet, even though things seem to be more positive this time around shouldn't speak so soon he refuses to discuss it until we have seen the heartbeat. I think it's his way of not being affected by it too much of the worst happens again. He knows I'm on here and chatting to mn people all the time about it and I can't stop so I think it's self preservation on his part which is fine as I need him to stay as stable as possible if the worst happens. Just can't wait until I see him excited about it again, like the 1st time.

Any fun plans for the weekend? We were thinking of watching Star Wars at some point. Went for a nice Chinese last night. And happy news hit yesterday that you can eat runny eggs so long as they have the lion stamp on them so guess what I'm having for breakfast....

Happy weekend all

That all sounds very positive vap and I totally get your husband doing the man thing ~ trying to be sensible...

Also awesome about your cravings for healthy food! I suddenly realised how chubby I've become so I'm doing a serious diet overhaul back to 5 a day, more veg, less crap.

I went to the gym the other day and I've pulled my thumb/wrist I'm not quite sure how that's possible but it's really painful ha ha!!!

Your holidays sound fab, i'm desperate for a hot holiday somewhere but at the moment all I've got booked is a trip back to London and a trip skiing. Oh and two days at the end of Jan possibly two Amsterdam... It's up to DH to decide.... it's for his birthday. But my skin is longing for some sunshine!!

No side effects from the clomid really which is great. The last two months I took it I got really emotional in the TWW which I guess is not so much a side effect of Clomid just a normal working cycles up and down...? But I was ready to cry all the time

Dry January is going well last night wasn't too bad because I had to wake up at five this morning..., however tonight I'm going to a friends dinner party which would normally involve me drinking about a bottle of wine! It's at the Four Months TTC girls house so I anticipate some baby chat But I will be good!

Enjoy Star Wars I went to see it a couple weeks ago at 4dx cinema it was great fun! i'm not really into those sort of movies normally but it's quite alright!!!

Happy weeeeekend!!!!

Happy Sunday ladies. I hope you're all having a lovely weekend?

Banana - Any update? I hope things are progressing well .

NewLeaf - I'm sorry you're having a crappy time and that you've lost hope. Hopefully you'll feel a bit more positive once you have the February consultation and know what the next steps are. Irrespective of the infertility hell, I imagine you're also exhausted from all the travelling and never being settled in one place.

Well done on the diet overhaul! That's great! It's so hard to change your diet and exercise behaviours, so just take small steps at a time and have mini goals. That's what I'm doing anyway (although I've spent the last 20 years of my 31 years on diets, so maybe I'm not the best example to follow!). I've been watching what I eat and drink and trying to have more 'good' foods (lean proteins, veg, leafy greens etc) and fewer 'bad' foods (particularly less sugar - I'm a chocolate fiend!). I've lost 3lbs since Christmas, which I'm pleased with, but need to make sure the scale keeps going down. Realistically this will mean 1-2lbs per month maximum, which I'd be happy with as long as I keep going down. I'm really bad for being very good for days/weeks at a time, losing a few lbs over a few weeks, then having a weekend gorging and putting it ALL back on...then getting depressed so eating even more and ending up heavier than when I started .

How the hell did you injure your thumb/wrist? Hope it gets better soon!

How was the friend's dinner party? How was 4 month girl? Hope it was a fun night.

Vap - That's awesome that you haven't had any more spotting. I've got everything crossed for you. 5 weeks? Wow! That's gone fast! I suppose the first few weeks do go fast because of the whole 'backdating' to the time of your period thing.

That's great about the healthy eating cravings. It's only going to be good for little bambino! I totally understand why you're getting so excited, and I also totally understand why DP is too scared to start getting excited. Fingers crossed you'll get some positive news (and even see a heartbeat) in just over a week.

Great plan with the holiday bookings as well! They sound fun. Hopefully they'll be relaxing for both of you. Same with you NewLeaf! I've never been to Amsterdam and I would love to. DH and I have been talking about places we want to go over the next year (or more accurately I've been telling DH who says we don't have the money as we may need to pay for lots of IVF) and Amsterdam is on my hit list. I've actually been looking at holidays to Gran Canaria this morning, for some time between July - September. I feel like holidays are the only thing we really have to get excited about, which is pretty tragic and also very bratty.

AFM, I became an aunt this morning . They had a little girl. I am so pleased for them! I would never wish sub-fertility on anyone, but at least they 'get it' so understand why we find certain things hard and also appreciate just how lucky they are.

Vap - I'm CD20 today. FA to report. I feel a bit 'heavy' down there (can't think of a good way of describing it) and have headaches, so pretty sure AF is on her way. I usually get so many symptoms in the run up to AF, which google always tells me is a sign I'm definitely pregnant. I then had one month with NO symptoms, so saw that as a good sign. Now I try not to get my hopes up about anything. I alternate between testing and waiting for AF, because sometimes it's nice to get a warning that she's on her way but other times it's heartbreaking to get the BFN.

Urgh, have you seen about Kristina Rihanoff and Ben Cohen? Ignoring the fact they're both tramps and announcing it on CBB is pretty tacky, apparently she's past the 3 month point and only found out at Christmas! It's so unfair that someone not using protection, who doesn't even realise they're pregnant for a few months gets up-duffed, yet people like us are doing every sodding thing we can and having no success (except you Vap, who has suddenly turned super fertile !). Grr...rant over.

Hi ladies!

Cor, loads to catch up on!

Right, I’m going to get the ‘me me me’ out of the way, then come back to reply to all you lovely lot properly

Thank you so so much for asking after me, things are just ticking along. 4 days of stims in, and after only 2 days the stims bloat kicked in with a vengeance. I look 4 months pregnant! This happened last time, and I know it’s just because of the absolutely elephantine dose of the stims drugs that I’m on - last time it abated as the dose was dropped, whereas many women only get bloated towards the end of stims as their ovaries get swollen with tonnes of follies. Sadly not the case for me!

It looks worse than it is, I just have the absolute raging thirst - so I’m permanently chugging from a massive water bottle. First tracking scan on Tuesday, so desperately hoping we’ll see some follies!

I stimmed for 12 days last time, so I’m hoping that if I have responded, we’ll have EC hopefully week after next, maybe Mon/Tue? We’ll see!!

Vap the whole vocabulary around this process is very agricultural! I find the terms ‘egg collection, ‘egg quality’, ‘assisted hatching’, needing ICSI because frozen eggs have ‘harder shells’ etc all makes me sound like a broody hen - which ain’t far from the truth! I'm eating lots of eggs (boiled with soldiers, obvs!) because lots of protein is great for follies, but every time I just look at them, I think the term ‘eggs’ feels very odd when I’m eating eggs for my eggs! Compared to ‘sperm’, talking about ‘eggs’ feels a bit unscientific, although I know strictly they’re called oocytes / ova (depending on what stage of maturation they’re at) and that’s a bit of a mouthful!!

Newleaf you are absolutely right about eSET (elective single embryo transfer) - if you scroll back a few posts, I touch on this quite a bit in my ‘here’s roughly what’s hopefully going to happen over the next couple of weeks’ outline. My clinic is also very big on eSET, however that generally applies in most cases to a day 5 transfer of a single blastocyst transfer (because transferring 2 blasts doesn’t increase your likelihood of pregnancy very much, but does increase the risk of multiples to 50%) - I don’t think any clinic would ever apply eSET rules to a day 3 transfer, because the likelihood of pregnancy is so much smaller. My consultant is very very strict about avoiding multiples at all costs in my case, as given all my various health conditions, and the very real possibility that my hypermobile pelvis could essentially fall apart even in a singleton pregnancy, twins would be very very undesirable. All that said, he agrees that it 100% makes sense to transfer 2 embryos if we have to have a day 3 transfer, but only 1 blastocyst (if we’re lucky enough to get to blast)

If we’re several failed cycles down the line, then we would absolutely consider transferring 2 blasts (if we had them) as by that point it’s likely you produce a higher than average proportion of chromosomal abormal embryos - or have an inhospitable uterine environment - so the chances of multiples after repeat implantation failure, are much smaller

Right, enough ‘me, me, me’! Will pop back later today for a proper post to catch up with you on all YOUR news

Hope you’re all having lovely weekends

xxx

Vap 5 weeks, woohoo! So excited for your scan - really chuffed to bits for you, and keeping everything crossed. And great news about the healthy cravings - my (very crunchy organic granola type) yoga teacher mate said during her two pregnancies all she could stomach was the starchiest, whitest carbs imaginable, so frankly whatever works for you, works for bubs!

I can completely, completely understand reluctance and nervousness, I would be much the same. We’re all rooting for you and hoping it’s third time lucky xxx

Sailing and beach hol sound FAB! I think it’s great to have your babymoon(s) to look forward to :)

Newleaf how’s your thumb / wrist, you poor thing? And very very importantly, have you decided on where you’re going away? You ladies are making me jealous! I think DH and I will sort something out to cheer ourselves up after this cycle fails - and prob I’ll organise a cheeky weekend to pop out to stay with my brother and SIL in Ibiza, only have to book flights, and haven’t seen them since Sept, so would be rude not to go, really?!

Funny you say about Clomid side effects, in my Clomid cycle I found I got REALLY emosh after ov, not while I was taking it. I was massively weepy, like, overnight. Came on really suddenly and I was all over the place. Sending massive massive hugs and

Hope this cycle is easier for you and that you get a lovely January surprise to kick off 2016

Flat honestly, what you wrote about workplace stuff literally could have been from inside my own head - in absolute, 100%, violent agreement with everything. A colleague and I (also freelance) were saying when our contracts were up for renewal that if we were blokes, we’d be negotiating hard for an increase in our day rate - but we both agreed that we’d rather keep things as they are and take slightly less than we might perhaps be able to get, in return for flexibility (she has two little ones, so if nursery calls and says one of them is ill and needs picking up / can’t go in until they’re better, she and her husband do 50:50 dropping everything at work; I have medical appointments and whatnot, with back stuff as well as IVF). We felt like such traitors to the sisterhood, being absolute stereotypes of ‘unreliable women in the workplace as soon as they enter childbearing time’, but the fact is, it’s true. I’ve mostly made my peace with it, as fuck it, I gave some of the best years of my life to the office, and frankly no one said on their death bed ‘I wish I’d spent more time in the office’

Congrats on becoming an aunt - hopefully your SIL and BIL will not long be celebrating the arrival of baby FlatWhite. It really is amazing how desperately common subfertility is - I can’t tell you how many friends I have that have experienced trouble getting or staying pregnant, and that’s just the ones I know about. So many friends I thought were just those FB couples with perfect babies turn out to have had to fight for their families - think I mentioned one friend who said she’d had 7 IUIs, multiple miscarriages, several ops and 2 rounds of IVF + a FET (her daughter came from the 2nd round of IVF, and her son was a frozen embryo from the same cycle transferred in the FET 2 years later). I had NO idea. We are not alone ladies

science sending you all the hugs in the world. You have been through SO SO much, and you are an absolute warrior woman - you aren’t just walking through life, you are fighting through it. The lack of funding for mental health is absolutely criminal - I really hope there is some way you can access support. A lot of therapists / counsellors work on a sliding scale, is any way you could even stretch to a couple of private sessions, if other avenues are similarly unhelpful. Again, I don’t say this lightly as if to suggest you aren’t all over this shit already and realise I’m teaching grandma to suck eggs, but do you ever try mindfulness / meditation / relaxation to help with the sleeping problems or anxiety at all? There are lots of guided meditation podcasts and apps that I find quite helpful, though I’m shit at sticking to them - I’m listening to quite a bit at bedtime, to try and get me off to sleep and switch off washing machine.

Sorry if this comes across as desperately patronising, just wish there was something any of us can do, other than to say we’re here for you to rant away!

So pleased that you got Clomid, and hoping it works its magic for you. Will you be monitored again with tracking scans?

AFM, I’m the size of a frigging house, I had to deploy emergency jeggings and a massive floaty blouse for work today. Friend said I looked the same size as she was when she was 6 months pregnant, that’s how big my belly is!! It’s nuts. Another friend said she’d bought some maternity clothes for during stims - I work 5 mins from the big Topshop at Oxford Circus, but can hopefully find enough drapey stuff in my wardrobe to cover me till I’m off for EC/ET (hopefully just the rest of this week)

I’m absolutely bricking it about my scan tomorrow - and as well as the general bricking it about the whole ‘how many follies will we get / how many follies will contain eggs / how many eggs will be mature / how many of the frozen eggs will thaw / how many eggs will fertilise / how many embryos will we have at day 3 / will we be able to go to blast / how many will make it to day 5’ general mental chaos, I’m absolutely crapping it about how I’ll manage in the 2ww without my pain meds. I’m tapering off everything so that I don’t go into withdrawal, but I’m still in a fair bit of pain and I’m not even off everything yet.

Thank fuck for being freelance, as although I might be dropping people in it if I end up taking longer off (and frankly if I’m lucky enough to get pregnant, the likelihood of being able to work normally is prob limited, given I won’t be able to take meds the entire first trimester) I don’t really have any allegiances to them. And they’ll just have to deal.

Anyway, I’m getting ahead of myself

First scan @ 10am tomorrow, eek!

Hope you’re all well ladies

xxx

Hello lovely ladies!

Flat, congrats on your niece! I'm very pleased for them :) Thanks for your lengthy reply to me. Mr Science is doing ok and is keeping me afloat at the moment. I do feel things are improving though, my mental health has really improved since being given the drugs. I was terrified they'd make me wait 6months. You're totally right about the Ben Cohen drama....fuckers! Found out at Christmas and already 3months gone. They can't have been actually trying or else they'd be like us and know as soon as the 2ww is over!

Vap, no, I get no counselling with work. Maternity pay in normal schools is fantastic, you're right. However, if you're me who works in a private special school you get full pay for 6weeks then statutory mat pay like anywhere else. I made a bad choice in moving out of 'normal' schools! No sick pay and no good mat pay!

Banana, best of luck for tomorrow! No, I'm not being monitored anymore. It seems to be working every month, fingers crossed!

Newleaf, thank you so much for giving me a new part of my body that I can tell my personal trainer is injured! I was running out of place, I need him to ease off me a bit! Gyms are evil places! I've had a knee injury for over a year now. Keep away from them! :)

AFM, I had some weird cramps last night so I hope all is well down there! AF due in a few days, then clomid can begin again and life has hope again :)

Evening ladies. Banana - I'm so sorry you're as big as a house . Are we talking a nice little cottage or a 10-bed mansion? . Do you know how long that will last for? Is it permanent weight gain (as in, you'll need to work your arse off to lose it?!) or a temporary thing which goes, albeit slowly, when this is 'over'. I'm really sorry as it can't feel very pleasant.

Good luck tomorrow. I have everything crossed for you. It sounds like you assume IVF will fail, which I understand as I'll feel similarly, as you sort of need to for self-preservation! That said, the hypocritical friend in me is telling you to keep a tiny bit of positivity. Even if it's only 1%! Even if IVF doesn't work this time, it is not the end of the road, and you are getting closer to having your child. Let us know how it all goes. I'll be thinking of you at 10am!

AFM, I made it to 11th Jan then the tears came. I'd actually been feeling a bit more positive about things, probably because the IVF process was getting started and we were told a few weeks ago we'd get 3 attempts on the NHS. I had originally registered with a GP surgery near to where I then worked, because back then it never crossed my mind that (a) I may need NHS IVF; and (b) it would vary from CCG to CCG in terms of how many attempts you may get. ANYWAY, today I got a call from the surgery where I'm trying to register as an out-patient saying that they won't let me register as we now live out of the area and are "too far out" (even though we have been told by several doctors and it says on their own website that they accept out of area patients!). This is where DH has been registered for years, where we have paid £££ in various taxes over the past 5 years when we DID live in the area (taxes for which we have personally had zero benefit from), where DH still works and where I have also recently started working. I am absolutely devastated. Based on current GP options (which end up being in different geographical areas, neither of which will be easy given that they are only open 9-5 Monday - Friday and unfortunately I actually, you know, HAVE TO WORK) I can either proceed with my current GP and get 1 round of NHS IVF only but have it soonish, or move to to a different (3rd) GP and get 2 rounds of NHS IVF but be made to wait a year. I just feel so much despair now. Sorry to wallow, but this is just so unbelievably unfair when we pay so much, as a percentage of our salaries, in taxes and get no help from the state with the one thing we need .

Oh Flat what totally terrible news. I'm so sorry. I have nothing of any value to say other than agree with you what shit it is. Have you challenged them? Asked why when it says they accept patients like yourself? Is there a complaints or appeals procedure you could go down? Or possibly explain your plight to someone living in that CCG so you could register with their address? There's a couple in my local area kicking up a big fuss about IVF in my area, they seem like they're getting somewhere. If we have to go down that route I'll be looking at all the CCGs and comparing them. If my Mum 90mins away has a shorter list or more free goes at it I'll certainly be pretending I live there!

Thinking of you and how unfair life is xxx

flat sorry to hear about your doctor administration woes... I love the nhs and the fact that there is accessible healthcare to call having lived abroad and has to rush to pay for a friends appendix removal at 3am because they wouldn't admit my friend without payment, I appreciate the nhs no end. Howeverrrrr, some of the admin paperwork pen pushing is fucking ridiculous. You should be able to register at any surgery u want at the end of the day you will only go to one place so what difference does it make!

I think, and hope, that this is merely an administration headache and it'll get resolved eventually one way or another...

banana sorry to hear of the bloat, I love flats classification of bloatiness. I guess it's just water retention and swollen ovaries and would guess that after treatment it would abate by itself. Funny you also mention about weepiness after ovulation being a clomid side effect for you... I get so emotional and weepy I thought it was just thru ovulation regular hormones. Who knows these freaky bodies we have.

Good to hear you are feeling more perky science onwards and upwards! To a positive 2016!

My dinner party on Saturday was great, Dry Jan is going well no wobbles. But 4-month girl did ask again and having babies was very much talked about. Regretting my explosion a few months back and outing myself that we are trying. Feel under the spotlight now and so so so wish I hadn't said anything. When the conversation swung around to me all the time I just have one word yes or no answers and changed the subject so I guess they get the picture that I won't be discussing anymore with them, but I still wish I could be out of the conversation like the unmarried ones!!!

Or just get pregnant. That would do too....

Ps: my gym wrist/thumb injury has healed. Back in the sweat house and still on the healthy eating.

banana what's the theory behind milk drinking? . Does chocolate count?

banana best of luck this morning! Hope everything is progressing well!

Will reply properly to you ladies this eve, just a quick update:

Bloody hell. I had 5 follies at my baseline for the last cycle. I had 10 follies at my baseline last Monday. I have......drumroll.....

Only bloody 14 follies at today’s scan!!!

Dr said he is ‘over the moon’ with my response - and also a little gobsmacked. He’s dropped my dose massively, and then to drop it again on Thu - next scan Friday, he thinks prob trigger Sat and EC Monday.

He was also pretty astonished by my spectacularly swollen belly - his eyes nearly fell out of his head. So I think that means I must be unusually bloated - so I’d say small mansion is probably correct!

Lining is ‘fair’ (6.6mm) but he will keep an eye on it - may add in some oestrogen tablets after Friday’s scan. We should hopefully have a bit more time as it needs to be at the right thickness by transfer, so fingers crossed. So, things hopefully heading in the right direction!

Excellent news banana great job growing your follicles!

Brilliant news Banana!

AF arrived for me today. Clomid round 4 starts tomorrow!!!

Banana - That's amazing news! I'm so pleased. So what's next? It feels terrible even asking that. I feel like we should be saying "put your feet up and rest for the next few weeks" instead of thinking to the next step, ha ha!

Science - I'm sorry AF came today. I suppose at least it's a sign your body's getting back to normal. I hope you're ok.

NewLeaf - Urghhhh, that's irritating that they were asking. It puts me off telling people, as I don't want to have to deal with all the questions.

I just don't know what is going to happen with the GP stuff. I am exhausted by it all. I am just so angry! When I went in to register weeks ago they said it was fine. The problem is, medical secretaries have a 'computer says no' attitude and seem to actively enjoy being as unhelpful as possible. As well as the reduction in NHS-funded IVF cycles, I have the immediate problem that we're having our first set of tests this Friday and in order to have the tests we either both need to be registered at the new GP (which I had assumed would be ok as I went in to register weeks ago and they accepted my application and said I'd be "on the system" within a few days but where they now won't let me register) or I need to ask my current GP to contact that CCG to get permission for me to be treated in a different area. Either way, neither of these are going to be sorted before Friday. So after months and months of waiting to be seen, we'll probably now be turned away because of an NHS admin point. FFS. I'm devastated.

Hi All

Loads to catch up on.

flat I've been meaning to ask about that positive hpt in the loos at work. Has anyone turned out to be pregnant? It was quite a while a back now.
Congratulations on becoming an aunt exciting times! Sorry it's hit you and caused sadness. Are you feeling any better about it now? I hadn't heard about those people you mentioned but of course googled them and understand your description "tramps" ha, made me laugh! I was thinking about the IVF conundrum you are in and wondered if there would be a possibility of having your 1round soon with the Drs you are registered with and then transferring (if unsuccessful) to the other Drs who offer 3? It's so crap that people struggling with fertility seem to get so little help, it's just not fair!! I'm sorry you're feeling low. P.s I agree with science on registering with another Dr and telling them you live somewhere else. I live in an area that offers 3, you could say you live with me and Mr cap. Although my Drs are pretty piss poor at doing ANYTHING so probably not any benefit. No wonder they offer 3 cycles when it takes over 2 years to even get put on a list! People probably get too old by the time they make it onto the list and then are no longer eligible! Did you manage to sort out your registration problems?

newleaf how's your thumb? Still managing to stay "dry"? Have you finished your xlomid for this cycle? Sorry if you already said but are they tracking you this month?

banana has he bloating/swelling gone down at all? If not when might you expect it to? Did you make it to top shop? I bought a wrap dress at the weekend which I thought would do me well with an ever growing belly (not yet).

science great to hear you have started clomid again. I hope it works for you again and really soon . So pleased they didn't make you wait months to have it again. That's crap with your school and not getting the same deal as normal schools .

So today is the evening of 5+4 which officially makes this my longest pregnancy yet. Have had a bit of a scare, started cramping yesterday 1st thing off and on and it hasn't really stopped. Sore boobs and tiredness have eased off. No spotting or anything so hoping it's just a change in symptoms rather than something more sinister. Not getting worked up about it as there is nothing that can be done and just hoping for the best. Monday 4.15 can't come soon enough! I was reading that after seeing a heart beat on a scan at 6w you have a 78% chance of success, 8w 98%, 10w 99%. I really really hope we see a heart beat on Monday!