Would you be my Infertility/Clomid/Follicle tracking friend please?!

[scienceteachergeek]

Hi there ladies

I’m really looking for a ‘clomid friend’ or ‘infertility pal’!

I’m 30, DH is 38. I came off the pill July 2013 to regulate my cycles and ended 15yrs of antidepressants in March 2014 as I’d read that was the best plan if possible.

I’d been having regular 27/30day cycles since I came off the pill but after no positive tests, buying OPKs and the Clearblue Advanced Fertility Monitor, plus charting temps and monitoring my cervix and mucus it quickly became apparent that I wasn’t ovulating. After all the blood tests, sperm analysis, trans-vaginal scans and the HSG it showed that he was fine but I wasn’t ovulating, but there was not obvious reason why.

Fast forward to now, 2yrs since coming off the pill, I have been prescribed clomid and have taken my first 5 tablets. I’m day 12 today and have been having follicle tracking to check if the drugs have worked. My largest follicle was 16.4mm today and have to go back on Wednesday to check it again.

Do any of you know if that’s a good size? Or have any experiences of being further down the clomid path? Or are you in a similar position? I just feel like I’m going out of my mind and could really use a buddy!

Thanks for reading and hugs to you all. Interested in hearing from any of you xxx

Hi, me again!

So much for not tracking this cycle. Had some weird cramps today that I think were ovulation pains and was handily walking past a wilkos and popped in for some cheap opk's and they sell them in packs of 5 for £2.80 - happy days! Bought 3 packs. Stopped in the services and had no suitable receptacle so had to get the top from a bottle of water in the car to wee in. Ha. Anyway, very very faint line, don't know why I did one in the day time as I have never had a positive without massively dehydrated fmu. Anyway I have them now and will test again in the morning. Also noticed some ewcm this afternoon which I was (quite ridiculously) so excited about, I even texted dp to tell him about it. Talk about tmi for partners when you go through this crap. He must be one of the most educated men when it comes to women's bodies and cycles and I'm pretty sure he does not want to be. So I jumped him when I arrived home in the hope that ovulation is around the corner. You never know.

banana I did not know it takes 3 months to make sperm and eggs.... Yikes! You've done so well on your health kick! Shame you can't let your hair down over Xmas but hopefully it will all be worth it in the end!

banana I am totally with you with the secondary infertility people. True too that you have to be careful where you say it but you are 100% right. I am on a mc board and they are all super fertile (and I need to add absolutely lovely and supportive) people who were caught in the first few months or trying (or some without even trying) and were unlucky having a mc and I just don't see how it is comparable to people with infertility. I also feel like a bit of a fraud being on this board these days and I'll bet you're all getting a bit cross with me having 2 bfp's recently but I also have had the 28 months (and counting) of hell on earth. Don't get me wrong, it is horrible losing a baby at whatever stage, and I do think that the further along you are the worse it will be but after infertility it is so much worse because you don't have the positive that it will happen again. Thinking things like "Maybe it was a freak accident getting pregnant in the 1st place" or "what if that was the only chance we will get" etc etc. Sorry to anyone reading this who takes offence but until you've been there you can't know what it's like. I at least can now see a light at the end of the tunnel thinking that awful thing that you should never say but it's true "at least I can get pregnant". That is the one thing getting me through. I think this is the thing that has made this second one easier to take because it only took 3 months to get that BFP for the 2nd time. I'm so sorry that we are all finding ourselves in such an isolated position, some people seem to have much easier lives. Can you imagine going back to that happy go lucky person you used to be before any of this? Wasn't life just so much easier? I know it was for me.

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

I'm in alone tonight, dp is out with work colleagues having Xmas drinks, so here I am with Xmas tree twinkling (tastefully) away, candles lit, prosecco in hand and wait for it...... Twilight on the tv... Ha!

2016 needs to be the year we all get our bfp's! And if we get on with it perhaps a baby or 2 may be around for its 1st Christmas in December 2016 [santa]
^^

Vap how did your OPKs go? Mine are still no sniff of a line but I am using the crap ones which last month didn't show much/anything til a strong positive at CD28!!!!

Today is CD18, I'm at airport en route for the mammoth journey to get my mid cycle scan. The things we do!

Well, wishing u all a happy Friday ... Have u all finished Xmas shopping? I finished yesterday with a last addition for DH: really cool beanie hat.

New Leaf - Best of luck today! I hope the whole thing isn't too exhausting and that you can get a proper rest this weekend.

Well done for sorting your Christmas shopping too . I can't believe it's Christmas in a week...I don't feel remotely Christmassy.

Vap - (sorry - appreciate these posts were a while ago - I'm just catching up!). It's 1 in 4 pregnancies that end in miscarriage; not 1 in 4 pregnant women that have a miscarriage. So, like you said, there will be the "lucky" few who have multiple miscarriages while the majority of pregnant women don't have any.

I don't know how you put up with your friend and kept a smile on your face. I would have burst into tears/got angry!

Banana - I completely agree with you about the secondary infertility comments. It must be difficult if you want x number of kids and you can't have that; but you're still a mum! We wanted 4 kids (ha!) and there's a little part of me that will be a LITTLE sad that we probably won't end up with massive family we wanted, but this doesn't even remotely come close to the devastation of potentially NOT HAVING A FAMILY AT ALL. I follow a couple of infertility blogs, and one lovely girl I follow has a child conceived after several years of trying and several rounds of IVF. She's now struggling to have her second and has had repeated failed IVF rounds. It's clearly horrible for her, but she put up a blog post a few months ago about how, even though this is hugely difficult for her and devastating every time the IVF doesn't work, it doesn't come close to when she was going through this the first time and didn't know if she would ever get her baby.

I don't know if you guys ever check out the AIBU page, but there was a post a few weeks ago from a woman who was thinking of leaving her husband because he'd agreed to have a 4th child with her and now he'd said he didn't want to. It appears he did nothing else wrong except say (probably sensibly if he's worried about finances etc) that they shouldn't have a 4th. I wanted to gauge my own eyes out! This woman was genuinely angry about the situation she was in and that she'd been "denied" this 4th child. Some people just don't know they're born.

Vap - I also totally agree with your MC comments when people get pregnant really easily. Losing a baby through MC at any stage must be awful, and the further along you get the worse it is (I simply cannot comprehend how people survive MC at 6,7,8 months or still births). I do think if you get pregnant relatively quickly, have an early MC then fall pregnant relatively quickly again, it isn't as painful as everything we're going through. It's a very traumatic event, but then you'd deal with it like any other trauma. Yes, it would always stay with you and you would never forget what happened or your lost baby, but you would know that there was this awful "event", you grieved for your lost baby, then you found a way to rebuild your life once that "event" had ended because you would still be able to have a little bit of hope. For us we don't have that end point where we can say "that was horrific but it has happened and it's over and I need to find a way to pick myself up and rebuild things"; we just have these continuous cycles month in and month out where nothing changes except we feel more and more desperate and more and more alone. We can't grieve and move on, because what are we actually grieving?! The very fact that there is NOTHING. If you're told "you will never ever have children because [reason]" you would grieve that, but we aren't in this position yet!

Banana - How did it go with the Christmas Party? Did you manage to sneak off?

Well done with the healthy eating & giving up booze regime. You never know, it may make the difference! If it doesn't then at least you know that you did everything you could to give yourselves the best chance. I must admit though, I'm a little worried about that diet coke...with such reckless behaviour I'm not sure if you're really suitable to be a mother .

We're giving ourselves December "off" (from everything!). We're going away for 2 days on the 27th & 28th and are going to have a blow-out meal and lots of booze, then have decided that that's the "cut off point" and we'll start the healthy eating regime on the 29th. We may have a drink or two on NYE, but DH is working NYD and I'm not too fussed about NYE (except to say: FUCK OFF 2015). If we started IVF it won't be until Easter time, so a few months of healthy eating will do us the world of good.

Banana - I'm sorry about the catostrophising. It's completely understandable! Just remember that even if things are bad now (which they may not be), that doesn't mean it will ALWAYS be the case. You just don't know. I'm trying to think, if IVF doesn't work first time it doesn't mean it will NEVER work. Yes, it will be beyond awful and I won't see it that way if it fails...but the fact of the matter is WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

I also understand the "finite amount of luck" feeling. With all the baby bombs this year, I've just given up thinking it could happen as the baby quote for 2015 must have been reached.

AFM. This cycle is irrelevant. I just don't care. Had a night of feeling crappy last night as a massive WhatsApp group message went round confirming that end of September wedding couple are having a baby. I just feel so incredibly angry and bitter. They're lovely people and I would never wish suffering on anybody, especially them. But I just feel so angry about it all. They were incredibly arrogant talking about how they wanted honeymoon babies at the wedding (in the speech!) and that annoyed me at the time, because I HATE the assumption that pregnancy just happens when you want it to (you may also remember that this was the wedding where DH got argumentative with some friends who kept asking "When are we getting little FlatWhites?"). Anyway, like I said, it's not that I want my friends to suffer, but I want them to have some genuine empathy for what we're going through, and you just can't have that if you get pregnant on the first shag (I'm sure we would never have REALLY understood what it feels like until we were put in that position). There's also a part of me that's just so angry that we should have been the ones to have that happiness and the excitement of telling our friends and the Facebook statuses (not that I'd do that now!). I just feel so wretched about the whole thing.

Hey flat good to hear from you...

Everything you said in your post is so true and on point, except the finite amount of luck...!!!

And a big FFS to the September wedding couple. I mean congrats to them but FFSSSSSS!!!

Some "friends" of mine on FB just had a baby yesterday which they are so truly grateful for. They announced their pregnancy by saying something along the lines of "after a tremendously tough IVF journey we can say we are pregnant".... I don't know the ins and outs but they are over the moon with their happy, healthy, "miracle baby" and I am so incredibly happy for them. It really is easier to deal when you know they understand how tough the journey can be.

Glad you are enjoying your month off and your plan sounds fab... Are you going anywhere nice for your blowout. With DH?

I am at the airport waiting and hoping to get on my standby flight which is currently overbooked So I am having a glass of wine while I await my fate.

My mid cycle scan fertility appointment went like this: 100mg Clomid cycle 4, CD18 and scanned by a Super nice, overly nice, enthusiastic nurse who made me feel like I had a fab response at the time while thinking now I'm not sure....
1 RT follicle at 15mm
Largest LT follicle 4.7mm
Endo lining 5.4mm (thin, again)

Last mid cycle scan in July (cd14) I had a bunch of 8mm follicles on one side and two 12mm follicles on another with lining of 6.3mm

Both of these were on 100mg clomid...different CDs but such a different response. Anyway the outcome is that I get two more unmonitored clomid goes before a follow up consultation to decide whats next. Apparently there is a two month waiting list for the appointment but now I am on the list so we will see.....

Hi guys. Sorry for going quiet. I've been reading every couple of days but haven't felt i had anything helpful or positive to add. Thinking about you all as always.

Good news about ovulation Vap. Newleaf, good luck for this month. Flat, I want to throw things at your fertile friends!

I woke up a few days ago with a period. This caused intense sadness and relief at the same time. Told my fertility monitor so will track things this month to see if anything is going on. Today I am 31 and can't have birthday sex because of my period. I also have a huge cold sore! Sexy eh?!

The antidepressants have really helped me through a terrible time but have had to come off them again as they've caused weight gain. Can't have that plus I do feel better.

Lifelong friend announced that he and his gf are pregnant and are due the same day as I would have been....that hurt a lot

Then, finally, just to end 2015 with some extra bit of shit...the consultant thinks my tumour is back! MRI booked for after Xmas.

The only good news is that school holidays are here and I've just opened gift from DH. I'm the proud owner of a new laptop. This one has all the keys still working and doesn't freeze constantly. It also seems to be able to cope with more than one program running at once!

Hi everyone. Hope you're all having a good weekend?!

NewLeaf - How did it go with the flight? Have you made it back yet?

Good luck with the next two Clomid goes. How do you feel about it all? What does all the stuff with the follicles mean? Sorry - I'm so clueless when it comes to stuff like this! I need to start learning all these things if we're going down the IVF route in the new year.

That's great about your friend's IVF baby. I completely agree with what you say. If people have had a bit of a struggle (or a lot of a struggle if it ended up being IVF) then you can't begrudge their happiness. My BIL and SIL are having a baby in the New Year. They got pregnant after 2+ years of trying, an ectopic & a miscarriage. She was told her tubes were badly blocked and they couldn't have kids naturally and that IVF would be unlikely to work. They were just gearing up to start IVF and had they initial blood tests and found she was pregnant! I know we usually HATE these stories as people tell them to us in a "cheer up, of course you'll get pregnant the minute you stop thinking about it" kind of way, but I'm genuinely so so so happy for them. I hate what this has done to me, because I'm not genuinely happy for any of my other pregnant friends . I've never been a jealous person, but I think that's because I've always thought I could have everything if I tried hard enough or made sacrifices (e.g. I could be thinner, but I made the choice to eat that kit kat and have that glass of wine; I could have got a 1st at Uni but I made the choice to join a load of societies and have a social life etc). With this, it's so completely out of our control and feels unattainable. I'm therefore so jealous of everyone who is just "given" it without even "trying".

We're going away to a nice country hotel with a spa . Basically, I had a meltdown at a christening a few months ago and ended up having to tell my DB and SIL everything that had been going on. They then decided to treat us by paying for us to go away for a night to a place we've been to before and absolutely loved. It was so kind of them! It sort of makes me a bit sad though, because this is the place we went when we first started TTC and we're all excited about TTC and "having a baby soon". It just makes me so sad that Christmas is happening and we'd thought we would have a new born, when in fact we aren't even pregnant. I know you all completely understand this though .

Science - HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I hope you have a lovely day! Here's some to say congratulations. Are you doing anything at all to celebrate? I hope you manage to do something fun, even if you're feeling a bit crappy. That's amazing about the laptop, well done DH!

I'm so sorry about your mate. What an absolute blow. I take it he doesn't know about your MC?

What makes your consultant think the tumour is back? Can you not be seen before Christmas? I REALLY hope it's not bad news. You've been through so much already. I think you're doing so well to still be functioning!

Don't worry about coming on here to add anything "helpful" or "positive". You're welcome to just come on and chat about the weather or what's happening on neighbours .

OMG I am SO tired. I ended up working 24/7 between 7am on Monday and 8pm on Wednesday. I then had to go to a work event on the Wednesday night. WHAT A JOKE! I left work early on Thursday and yesterday as I could hardly function. My boss (not the big boss, the intermediate boss) was a bit of a twat about me leaving early though and made me feel guilty. WTAF?! Anyway, that's the least of my problems so I'm trying not to think about it. I just don't want to start 2016 exhausted...

Hi ladies, been catching up with all your updates and sending out so, so many hugs to you all

When I read all your replies to my secondary infertility rant, wow, I so knew I had found ‘my people’ here - you ladies are the best, you totally get it.

I’ve never experienced the heartbreak of miscarriage so I can’t begin to put myself in anyone’s shoes. But I have secretly thought the same as you ladies about the ‘miscarriage when you haven’t even been trying’ being less ‘distressing’ than ‘miscarriage when you’re struggling with infertility’. My brother and SIL hadn’t even started TTC properly - they just weren’t TTA - when she got pregnant first month of not trying. Very sadly, she started bleeding a week later and it was all over. They live in Ibiza where medical care isn’t brilliant, so she came over to London to see my gynae, who checked her out and said everything looked fine, unfortunately just one of those things, gave her the go ahead to try again whenever she felt ready, and sent her away with a script for progesterone to start using as soon as she gets a BFP again, just to be sure. That was in June, certainly as of last month they haven’t yet ‘hit it lucky’ but I’m anticipating news from them any month now. They know about my issues and are super understanding, but from what I can tell (and I caveat this with the coda that as we all know, that says nothing about what’s actually going on on the inside), after a few weeks of being very shaken and upset, she’s bounced back to her normal jolly self. My bro has never taken fertility for granted - he has never assumed it will happen (as so many couples do) - but I don’t think they’re living their lives as infertiles in the same way as we sadly all experience.

flat PMSL at my diet coke recklessness!! It’s so funny though, when I do have one now, I don’t even really enjoy it as it tastes so artificial to me now!! What has happened to me?!!!!

Xmas party was actually really nice thanks. I’m so glad I confided in a few people at work about treatment (had to really, to explain being in and out at clinic like a yoyo and at short notice), as it helped defuse the politely declining joining in with the tequila slammers and ‘whaddya mean ‘a lime and soda’?!!!!’ Although thankfully I can just gesture to my epilepsy medi-alert bracelet as an excuse, as others clearly thought I was pregnant when it was very clear I couldn’t avoid people noticing I wasn’t drinking.

Xmas off sounds like a bloody great idea - hope your couple of days away is suitably restorative, you’ve earned it!! And a resounding ‘what she said’ to FUCK OFF 2015!!!

The ‘honeymoon babies’ things fucks me off no end, I can quite understand feeling utterly destroyed by the baby blitzkrieg. It’s like people who moan about age gaps between their kids not being ideal, or ending up with two boys / two girls instead of one of each. Er, and your wallet is too small for your fifties and your diamond shoes are too tight?!!! You’ve won the bloody lottery already and don’t even realise it! I’m also absolutely staggered anyone could have the audacity to ask about little Flatwhites to your face. I feel very lucky no one has ever made any comments to me - I’d properly lose my shit. Next time someone asks me if I have kids it’s all I’ll be able to do to say ‘unfortunately not’- because when said without any agenda, just a straightforward question, it’s not an unreasonable thing to ask, and I know my reply will make people feel awkward, but frankly I don’t care.

Your words about trying hard enough and feeling adrift about being so out of control couldn’t have spoken more to me BTW. The OP on the ‘mind numbing boredom of infertility’ thread on MN basically summed it up for me, saying something like ‘never have I tried so hard to get absolutely nowhere’. TTC is both right and wrong. The trying hard is basically bollocks - we are trying as hard as we can and fuck load of good it really does, as whether it happens or not essentially has bugger all to do with however hard we do or don’t ‘try’. I remember a friend saying something like ‘we were shagging all the time for our second and it still look 6 months!’ -as though shagging all the time makes the difference. There’s only 4 days of the month you could get up the duff and it depends on so many other variables that really shagging at the right time has only a limited amount to do with whether you get pregnant or not. FFS.

However, whilst trying hard makes fuck all difference to whether or not you actually conceive, TTC is certainly very, VERY trying!

Oh science my heart is breaking for you. Happy birthday sounds so very hollow, I know, sending you so much love and hugs. When are you seeing the consultant? I am keeping all my fingers and toes crossed that it’s a false alarm and that you don’t have another shit mountain to deal with. You are doing absolutely amazingly, you are not just walking through life, you are fighting every step of the way

Newleaf Hope you made your flight and your mad dash has made it worthwhile! Re: another two months unmonitored Clomid - will they be at least giving you progesterone blood tests to see if you’ve ovulated? What about checking your lining? Given that Clomid progressively thins the lining the longer it’s taken, can you push for being monitored to keep an eye on things? I say this as someone who’s having persistent lining issues, and though the anti-oestrogenic effects of Clomid should go away after a month off, it just miffs me no end that Clomid is prescribed without proper monitoring, as though the ovulation bit is the only thing that matters. I’ve ovulated every month but no way I can get pregnant if nothing can implant! Clomid can be a brilliant fertility drug, but it can paradoxically make it impossible to get pregnant even if it ‘works’ to stimulate ovulation in a small number of women. Keeping everything crossed for you!

AFM I’m just plodding on.

My 5 weeks of down regging has left me a hormonal basket case. I was really worried about immune issues, given that premature ovarian failure and autoimmunity so often go hand in hand. So in my eminently rational state of immense medical wisdom, I ended up self prescribing various diagnostic blood tests - that obv if my Dr thought were worthwhile at this stage, he would have recommended I have them.

Yet hormonal me decided I clearly know better than my top consultant and ordered myself full thrombophilia and autoimmune blood panels, even though I’ve not yet had failed implantation or recurrent miscarriage to indicate further investigation, or any family history of autoimmune (and we know one definite reason I haven’t had a chance of conceiving naturally is because of my lining issues). Clearly Dr Banana with her ‘I’ve read some internet’ medical training knows more than her top consultant who did his sodding MD thesis on the causes of POF and who’s won loads of awards for his papers on POF.

Obviously ridiculous and also risked ending up with results that could have sent me into a panic over Xmas, as they weren’t being delivered in a consultation when I could discuss the results.

All that said, I’m really glad I went to go and get the level 1 immunes done, as it gave me peace of mind when the results came back clear (apparently my Dr did know what he was doing when he said there wasn’t any indication for ordering the tests!)

I am afraid my lack of Xmas cheer hasn’t abated. I’ve never really been a particularly festive person as I didn’t grow up really ‘doing’ Xmas as I was brought up (not particularly religious, but culturally) Jewish. So Xmas was never a particular big deal in my family, and all the enforced jollity has always been rather a chore for me tbh. My family and I stopped doing presents years ago, DH and I don’t do presents any more (I even said no birthday presents this year, as frankly I have enough ‘stuff’), we’re doing Xmas day just the two of us at home, locking the door and hibernating inside. Bah humbug!

Jesus that was an epic post!!!

Wow, epic post indeed. That was even longer than my epic post yesterday! I enjoy reading your updates though and it's so nice to hear people ranting about the things I want to rant about but am not allowed to in real life.

That's very sad about your DB and SIL. You're right though: how can it possibly be as painful as trying desperately for years and still not achieving a healthy pregnancy? That said, I guess we never know what other people are going through or what the truth 'behind the scenes' is.

I'm glad that the Christmas party was good in the end and that you didn't get coerced into drinking. Have your colleagues been good about things? Do they know timescales for everything IVF or just know roughly that it's happening late 2015/early 2016? I think I may need to tell people when it comes to IVF just so I can explain why I'm 'away from the office' all the time. I'm really scared though as it's not a particularly supportive environment and I don't want people in the team gossiping. I think the senior people would keep it to themselves, but secretly be more concerned about things like maternity leave and pay...then I don't really trust many of the middle and junior people as they're quite gossipy and (as far as I am aware) everything is oh so simple in their worlds so they couldn't begin to comprehend what I'm actually going through.

"Baby Blitzkrieg" is such a brilliant saying! So apt! So many people just don't have a clue how lucky they are. I can't believe people complain about having two kids the same gender! I remember there was a post on this a few months ago. WTAF? Take a good look in the mirror mate. The mind numbing boredom of infertility is a good thread though, as these girls also totally get everything we're going through.

Ha ha Banana - we all do crazy things when TTC. I imagine it's particularly bad given the cocktail of drugs you're on. Don't beat yourself up about it; at least you got some reassurance from the test results.

Your Christmas sounds perfect! I'd love to just have a day with DH. We've got our entire family (both sides) coming to ours so it will be a little stressful, but thankfully they're only coming for a day and a half and they all know what we're going through at the moment so are quite understanding.

AFM, I have an update on the September couple. As if the pregnancy bomb wasn't bad enough, we got a card in the post yesterday thanking us for coming to their wedding and getting them gifts. They then signed it off saying "we hope we get to share lots of exciting life events over the next few years" (obviously when they sent this they were days away from announcing their pregnancy). URGHHHHHHHH. I know they think that's a lovely thing to say (and why would they think we'd be anything other than excited?), but it's just made me feel even more sad about the whole thing and the fact that most people never have to even THINK that things may not be that simple .

Hi All

Hope you're all ready for Xmas! We aren't! So much to do and so little time. Don't even have a gift for dp yet! Yikes! No idea when I'll find time to buy him anything! Any ideas from anyone?

newleaf did your scan hurt at all? What lining level is good enough for implantation? What drugs can they give you to increase lining? Is it progesterone? Will they give you that? What follicle size is good? With these duff opks, I thought the last batch of 50 were duff too but I've been reading the Amazon reviews and so many people say they work. I think it is no coincidence that us infertile lot can't get a positive but the fertile people can. I think it's more likely that we aren't ovulating. I now have 4 sets of cheap opks and haven't had a sniff of a line on any of them. 2 packs from a mn friend who had blazing positives so I know that they definitely work! It's just so shit all of this waiting for months on end of fertility appointments only to be given no help. I love hearing about your friends who had their "tremendously tough journey", ok so pleased for them! It gives a little glimmer of hope that maybe that will one day be all of us.

flat I saw that 4th baby aibu post! It made me really angry! Be bloody grateful for what you have and shut the hell up! I also saw a post this morning on a conception board where the girl had a bfp and was saying how she had meant to take the morning after pill to prevent it. They weren't properly trying but had discussed it but not come to a decision! This all makes me so angry! How do these people do it so often by accident???
How is December off working out for you? Are you more chilled out?
Bloody wedding couple and their baby! Add them to the list! Not sure if you remember my work colleague who started trying 6 months ago, well I saw his dw at the Xmas do and she was telling me how she isn't having af, isn't ovulating and is basically having a shit time of it. I feel for her! And hope more than anything she doesn't make it as far down this horrible life consuming path as we all are. There are just no words for your boss! Well maybe 1.
WAN*ER!

science happy belated birthday , sorry it has been such a sad one. Are you still feeling better after the antidepressants? Would you consider a different type? Or do you think you're ok for now without them? I have absolutely everything crossed for your mri after Xmas! What an awful thing to have to wait to find out. Great news about the laptop! More time for obsessive mumsnetting and googling every symptom under the sun. I really really hope that 2016 is a better year for you! And as flat said, no need to useful or positive words on here! All I ever do is bitch and moan about how shit life is. That's what we are all here for!

banana yep, I think we are all on the same page on this thread! Pleased to hear your work colleagues were supportive! Your words about trying reall fuck me right off! You're so right! I had a friend (past tense) who told me to stop drinking and shag like rabbits and I'll get pregnant???? What the actual fuck? We have dtd 6 times in the last 7 days, but guess what, when you don't ovulate it makes fuck all difference if you're at it like rabbits or not! Reference the blood test you ordered, I only see that as a positive thing as now that is one less thing for you to worry about, if they hadn't given you it then of course you would have been obsessing over it! A bit like me and progesterone! Ha! How much does your Dr charge for an initial appointment? As you said he will prescribe progesterone this is a possibility for us when my dr does sweet F A in January. Your Xmas day sounds nice! How far does employment law go towards covering you when you are going through IVF? As if you are safe if you tell them then I would feel far better about it.

We just had an amazing long weekend away in London. Works Xmas do was excellent and we did one of these "breakout" things, this one was called "cluequest" they are amazing fun! They lock you in a room and you have an hour to solve all of the clues to break out. I can highly recommend it. And you'll be so busy for an hour I can guarantee you won't think about infertility for the hour! We were driving home yesterday and dp put the soundtrack to the muppets Christmas Carol on in the car, I love the film. WARNING! Do not do this! I was in tears! The tiny tim song where he sings about having no money but family to share everything with. It hit me like a tonne of bricks! Dp switched it off pretty quick, he was trying to cheer me up after receiving a letter from my fertility Dr. The weekend had cleared my head of all if this infertility crap and have not been able to monitor anything properly and I was feeling great until I saw this letter. It said that under no circumstances will they give me progesterone 1. Because it is expensive 2. Because there is no proof. I can't leave this one alone as I still am reading daily on mn about ladies being given progesterone to help sustain pregnancy. If other Drs are giving it out then I can't believe it is pointless. I'm scared this will be a sign of the lack of help I'll get in January. No signs of ovulation this month. Little bits of cm but not enough I don't think. Of the few opks I've done nothing past a very faint line. Temps are running fairly level with the beginning of the month, so no rise to speak of. and we have dtd so blooming much with it being Xmas and dp being off work. He is always far more up for it when he isn't working. Did another frer yesterday and there was the faintest of lines which you could only see in very bright light. Good that it is getting lighter. But why is it taking soooo long! Argh! So I'm still a little bit pregnant on cd20

That January appointment can't come soon enough. Don't know why I'm looking forward to it as I know I'll be in pieces about it as soon as it happens as I just know he will do NOTHING.

Sorry for being on a downer and for the massive post! Merry Christmas and all that!

Thought I'd share my pathetic attempt at ovulating with you

Hey ladies, a lot of epic posting going on here my turn now!

I made it back home, they bumped someone off the plane and there was another lady with 2 kids on standby but as she needed 3 seats and I only needed one, well.... it was my lucky night!

science Happy Happy Belated Birthday and huge hugs for your latest news. You have been through so much, you and your DH can get through this next blip too. As for the cold sore - I only get those if i'm suddenly out in the sun or if I am run down and know I need either extra sleep, vitamins, rest, gentle exercise.

flat your country spa hotel sounds amazing. just what you need (just what we all need i guess). What an awesome gift from your brother. hearing you on the you can have whatever you want in life if you work for it or want it bad enough. anything except a BFP... the theory doesn't quite work for that.

banana I had a scan of the "mind numbing boredom" thread and it just hits to the point so perfectly. Nothing to add, nothing to say except yes yes yes. So it continues.

vap I am a pro at internal ultrasounds now having had I think four in total. It doesn't hurt at all maybe just some mild nudging/tenderness and far less uncomfortable than a smear test!!

I believe the lower level ideal/average lining for implantation is 7mm or 8mms and minimum from what I see online is considered 6.5mm although the nurse who scanned me told me the minimum to sustain implantation is 5.5 and of course there are also stories online of people conceiving/sustaining pregnancy with such low lining.

Well from what i understand the follicles this scan are better than last scan. For Clomid they want to see one, two, three "ripe" big and dominant follicles without too many little ones (which might show the clomid dose is not right). These will continue to grow and encourage estrogen which encourages endometrial lining.

They aren't giving me any "day 21" bloods on my unmonitored cycles. I can only hope that since I was scanned on Friday at CD18, today is CD22 and have been DTD daily... anyway I can only hope that during these extra 4 days my lining has thickened up a bit.. Ov expected any day/moment now as a few twinges and 80% positive OPK. I don't temp as I am a crap sleeper, and no EWCM due to clomid drying me up but I do feel I "know" my body like you all do, unlike those lucky f--kers on our list who just open their legs and are pregnant. Sorry, who just relax and are pregnant. I mean who just stop drinking and have lots of sex and are pregnant.. anyway... anyway, hopefully the extra 4 days plus an extra couple days while my hopefully fertilised little egg floats down to IMPLANT DAMNIT!... hopefully in that time my lining will improve a bit.

And I have also started self medicating with small dose daily aspirin.

Anyway banana you got me questioning things, I think I will email the clinic and express concern at the low lining and see what they say to placate me as well as checking I am on the list for an appointment for what happens next after the next two cycles. I was questioning ahead for what happens next... and the nurse was all "if you don't get your period do a test" I just laughed. how crazy that it would actually work. I said "pfft, yeah right"

Sorry for the long post, hope I didnt bore you all too much. I nearly said hope you have a good weekend! I am off work today flying back to england on.... thursday i think. Excited for the christmas festivities with the family. DH is away today and back tomorrow so we will skip 1 day DTD. I feel like its going to fuck everything up which is insane because its only 1 day but infertility makes you loco, right!!!?

Vap you are so organised keeping all your tests!! I will say though that on my OPKs when I keep them for more than a few hours they DO fade and DONT show what they showed when reading them at 10mins.

Its such a pain that you always only ever get a good view of whats going on when you look at your cycle retrospectively!

Good luck with your lining, fingers crossed!

Last month I self medicated with baby asprin too, I told my gp I was taking it and she said she wouldn't suggest taking it but it won't do any harm. So I carried on taking it. Who knows if it helped? That pregnancy did last longer...?

I wouldn't say organised with the opk's, I'd say totally obsessed and stark raving mad! You're right though, they do fade slightly but not totally. When I had a positive one about 6-8 months ago, wow, it was an awfully long time ago, it did stay positive after the event.

I will sign myself onto the stark raving mad list too.

EWCM, lots, and I am sooooo ffffflippping happy over it.

Hurrah for the ewcm! Hope you managed to dtd today!

No I didn't! Of all days we DTD everyday since Saturday but DH was away yesterday!!! So we missed 1 day!!! he is Back in 30 minutes time and I have warned him he better be ready

+opk today. What some women take for granted feels like a miracle!!!

Hello everyone! I'll send a proper (read: epic) post later as it looks like a lot is happening for everyone!

December's month off has sadly come to an end with the onset of AF yesterday. In good news, AF was supposed to arrive on Christmas Day, so that's one positive! I did have a few bad days this month. Firstly September wedding couple really upset me, for obvious reasons. Then a few days ago I had a dream that it was Christmas morning and I was with DH in my room at my parents' house. I woke him up and gave him his wrapped Christmas present, which was a positive pregnancy test (ignore the ick factor of that!). He was so happy and we went downstairs and told both our parents...

Sadly I woke up and for a few seconds I GENUINELY thought it had happened. What a f*cking twat bag.

Now we're just going to enjoy Christmas then start gearing up for IVF over the next few months.

Hope you're all doing ok .

Oh flat sorry to hear about your dream feeling so real. It is hard and just shows how much it means.

When AF comes for me it of course is fucking sad and sucky and depressing, but its also a slight relief in that its the reset, the waiting and hoping and wishing is over and a short mental respite coz you know for sure you aren't pregnant or about to ovulate. But I know you just had your month off, I know you probably weren't expecting it but theres always the hope of the BFP and what-if wondering..? I don't think you can get rid of that even if not trying or tracking. Onwards to a new cycle and new year with IVF in the future! Time for you to get all knowledge buff and study up on the ivf ins and outs...!

I am about to email the clinic my questions/concerns about my thin lining, at least then I've done my bit. They are open all days except Xmas day and boxing day which I was quite surprised by...

Anyway ladies, I wish you all a merry christmas with friends/family/partners, good food and good drink. Enjoy the festivities and relaxation.

Right...now have time for a proper post !

Vap - I didn't see that post on the Conception forum. WTAF? How is it so easy for other people?! There also seem to be so many of the "I shagged guy A on day X and guy B on day Y, I'm now pregnant, who is the father?". Literally just shoot me now...

That's so sad about your colleague and his wife. Did they seem ok about it or a bit upset? The only good thing is that you can have a good natter about it to someone who will understand more than most. I don't have anyone in real life . I did have my BIL and SIL but they're now expecting...

Banana - As i said before, TTC makes us a little cray cray. I agree with Vap though - you would have been obsessing over the tests if you hadn't done them!

Vap - Did you have blood tests around day 21 (or 7 days after ovulation) to test your progesterone? What did the results say? I have low progesterone and the consultant refused to give me any progesterone. She said any result "over 15 mol/L" (which mine was) shows ovulation occurred and there's enough progesterone to maintain a pregnancy. I don't think you're alone in being told you can't have it. I'm looking into things I can do improve my progesterone levels naturally (e.g. diet, reducing stress etc).

New Leaf - Thanks for explaining all the follicle stuff. I know I need to start understanding this stuff soon . Let us know what they say about your lining. I really hope it's good news (both for the lining and everything else).

Vap - When's your January appointment? Is it the same one you had booked before the MC (i.e. the one you were hoping to lose weight for?). Not long to wait now!

I've just booked our initial tests (screening blood tests, AMH and pelvic scan) at the Fertility Centre for mid January. Not long now! At least the ball is rolling...

OK, epic post time- here we go! Strap in ladies….

Flat yep it’s so true we never know what’s going on behind the scenes. I can’t tell you how many people I know who’ve come out of the closet about having had years of fertility treatments - and I thought they were just yet another of those couples on FB with the baby announcements who had popped out another kid.

One friend revealed she’d had 7 IUIs, several endometriosis ops and 2 fresh cycles of IVF to get her daughter, and her son was a frozen embryo from the same cycle.

Work have been brilliant. I’m freelance, so I have more flexibility about dictating my working hours - I don’t get paid time off, but it’s more on my terms. That said, for the first cycle, I didn’t tell anyone - I just said I was having some ‘medical treatment’. I know quite a few women who’ve got notes from their GP signing them off work for a ‘gynaecological procedure’ for time off after egg collection.

This time- because we were going again so soon (or were supposed to be - should have had egg collection and transfer last week if things had gone ahead as planned) I decided to tell the truth. I haven’t told everyone in my team, but the other senior people know, and they’ve been absolutely great.

I nicked ‘baby blitzkrieg’ from another thread - isn’t it brilliant?! So very apt.

Nice one on making the appointment - wishing you tonnes of luck for the journey ahead

Newleaf woohoo EWCM and +ve OPK! Nice one!

My consultant said I needed 7mm minimum for transfer, but some clinics seem to have an 8mm minimum and others 9mm. Mine was just over the 7mm until retrieval when it went back down to 6.4mm…ugh. I am so so sorry if I’ve shit you up unnecessarily about your lining - if the clinic aren’t worried then there’s no reason you should be. But they should deffo be able to answer your questions and allay any concerns you have

And really don’t worry about missing a day DTD - even better as means he’s had a day to recharge so his swimmers are in optimum condition for catching that egg! Hoping that period doesn’t come and you do need to do that test….and get a lovely Xmas surprise

Vap I kept all my OPKs too, so keep me on the mad list

Aspirin can be very helpful because although miscarriage is usually sadly due to chromosomal abnormalities with the embryo, recurrent miscarriage can be due to clotting disorders - hence why thrombotic tests are key to bloods tests for RPL. If I had had two losses, I would personally take the aspirin as well.

Internal ultrasounds you get used to very very quickly - I now tell my DH I’m off for a hot date with dildocam…!!

Re: the blood tests, I was naughty and went off and ordered the tests myself so he has no idea I’ve had them done unless I tell him. If he thought I needed them he would have suggested them, but I’m glad I did for my own peace of mind.

My gynae ain’t cheap as he’s Harley St so Harley St prices…so it’s £200 for a consult and another £200 for an ultrasound. So if you’re not local to London I’d imagine you could see a very decent consultant gynae for quite a lot less wherever you are. But happy to give you his details if you’d like to see someone with a personal recommendation

In terms of progesterone, I know several women who were given progesterone after miscarriage - including one at the respected NHS recurrent miscarriage clinic at St Mary’s led by Professor Regan. We’re all given it as part of IVF treatment because we don’t produce enough progesterone after egg retrieval -and we have to take it throughout the first trimester if we get a BFP. I know women who’ve had injectables and IUI cycles who’ve all been given luteal phase progesterone to take to help support implantation, however this is all private - it may be that there isn’t NICE guidance to give progesterone on the NHS unless you’ve had confirmed RPL, but I think any private Dr would give you a script tbh.

Re: employment law, good question, I don’t know how the law works - I believe it’s considered elective treatment so doesn’t have the same weight as antenatal care - but you’re under no obligation to tell them either. Most people I know just said they were having some gynaecological treatment - it’s not your employer’s business what medical treatment you’re having

science many many happies and hope you’re having a restful Christmas

AFM, nothing to report.It’s CD 69 (!) and I’m still on the pill. Counting them down, if I don’t get the go ahead to start stims at my appt on 4th Jan I will lose the plot completely with my stupid body. I started the first cycle in late Sept and still haven’t had a bloody transfer. So wanted to get the BFN over and done with before the end of the year, but no. Can’t drink or go mad on the so I’m bloody nailing the soft cheese as compensation!

Going back to our secondary infertility sympathy discussion, I had a really lovely comment from a friend yesterday actually. She’s actually a friend’s wife, and when I told him we were going through IVF he revealed they were about to get referred for it when they got pregnant with their now 3 y.o. daughter. They’re now weighing up IVF for a sibling, and very sadly experienced a miscarriage a few months ago. She said “The other thing making it so hard at the moment is that the social life of a 3 year old involves lots of babies and pregnant mums and makes me want to scream. Lots”

I said to her that it was totally understandable, and shared that “I don’t see friends any more as I’m in limbo. Most have kids and do things with their other mum friends. The ones without are living wild and crazy child free lives and we’re not there either. We’re barren and childless but not child free”

She replied that I’d made her cry and she was so sorry I was having to go through this. I think it hit home to her that the bit about ‘the social life of a 3 year old’ was talking about being a Mum - which of course I may never know. I think it made her remember that however heartbreaking it is for her to be facing the prospect of not being able to have a second child, it’s not comparable to the prospect of never being a Mum.

DH and I have a fridge full of food, he’s the head of catering in our household (I’m the finance department, and we share facilities management!) so he’s cooking Xmas dinner and a Boxing day roast - I’m going to gorge myself silly until then, and then get back on the high protein super duper healthy wagon, probably to find on 4th Jan that something else has gone wrong and I can’t start stimming as planned. Full of festive optimism, me!!

Hope you’re all hanging in there, it’s a really hard time of year, so sending love and hugs to you all. I hope this time next year we’re all stroking our big fat pregnant bellies!

xxx

Happy Christmas ladies. I hope you all have a great day!

DH decided it was a good idea to start doing DIY at 6am. WTAF?! So much for my lie in before the guests arrive .

Lots of virtual hugs and wine and cake and cheese to you all x

Merry Christmas All

I did a frer this morning so I can drink without guilt! Have a great day [santa]

Merrrry christmas chicas! [santa]

Hope Santa was good to you all. Yes to big fat pregnant bellies for next year....

FYI after my email to clinic they called me back to discuss my concerns. They said yes we would like to see lining at above 6 or 7mm but more important is quality and mine was high quality (yes! I can do something right) with a trisomething appearance which apparently they are looking for. They said if it was thin AND poor they might prescribe a few days estrogen supplements mid cycle but not to worry due to the tri-something appearance and that they would anticipate the four/five days between scan and ovulation for it to increase...

Sorry for all that strikethru I was typing on my phone and it's gone all funny. Hope you can still read it. X

Hurrah for triple line! It's quality that counts, not quantity, and sounds like you have a top class trilaminar endometrial lining. Brilliant! Xx

newleaf excellent news about your lining!
Is anyone else struggling today?
Everything from the queens speech, to the numerous beautiful photos of happy families on Christmas morning and worst is a family friend who commented on a picture I put up of the most excellent gift from my nieces saying "it's time you have some kids". Argh! It's all just so much harder than last year.
Hope you've all found it a little easier today.
On the plus side, we have had a lovely day with the most incredible Xmas lunch we have ever cooked. I wish you were all my FB friends so you could see the pics. It was lovely.

Merry Christmas to you all again! [santa]
Roll on af and 2016!