Would you be my Infertility/Clomid/Follicle tracking friend please?!

[scienceteachergeek]

Hi there ladies

I’m really looking for a ‘clomid friend’ or ‘infertility pal’!

I’m 30, DH is 38. I came off the pill July 2013 to regulate my cycles and ended 15yrs of antidepressants in March 2014 as I’d read that was the best plan if possible.

I’d been having regular 27/30day cycles since I came off the pill but after no positive tests, buying OPKs and the Clearblue Advanced Fertility Monitor, plus charting temps and monitoring my cervix and mucus it quickly became apparent that I wasn’t ovulating. After all the blood tests, sperm analysis, trans-vaginal scans and the HSG it showed that he was fine but I wasn’t ovulating, but there was not obvious reason why.

Fast forward to now, 2yrs since coming off the pill, I have been prescribed clomid and have taken my first 5 tablets. I’m day 12 today and have been having follicle tracking to check if the drugs have worked. My largest follicle was 16.4mm today and have to go back on Wednesday to check it again.

Do any of you know if that’s a good size? Or have any experiences of being further down the clomid path? Or are you in a similar position? I just feel like I’m going out of my mind and could really use a buddy!

Thanks for reading and hugs to you all. Interested in hearing from any of you xxx

science I have no words, I can only imagine the devastation you and DH must be experiencing and I can’t believe what that doctor said to you. We’re thinking of you and all here for you.

Vap that looks like ov to me - nice work ovaries!

So, a very productive appointment with my consultant today - was my follow up appointment after our retrieval+eggs in the freezer cycle, to discuss next steps. Main headline is that we’re gonna start another stims cycle asap. Weirdly despite my lack of positive OPK and no temp rise I did indeed ovulate - as we could see a corpus luteum on the scan. However no way I could have possibly conceived as my lining was far too thin. Given my lining issues and the fact that I had many more antral follicles (and I’d responded well to stims before) he recommended down regulating me so we can get better control of everything.

He said something still doesn’t add up, as I had a load more follies on the scan, and that def wasn’t the picture (coupled with the response to the stims) of someone with undetectable AMH and a sky high FSH. I had 7 follies on the right ovary - couldn’t see the left properly, as there was a corpus luteum.

Left toting a bag of syringes and needles with me on the bus, and the buserelin will arrive tomorrow - start down regging tomorrow evening!!

Going back at start of Dec for baseline scan and will have EC hopefully 2nd or 3rd week of December. Will thaw the frozen eggs and batch them together with whatever we get this time. Apparently it’s absolutely fine to freeze embryos created from frozen eggs. And will keep a close eye on the lining and support as needed so we can hopefully do a transfer after EC. Would be so so great to be able to actually make it to transfer and be PUPO for Xmas! Xx

That all sounds great banana

All looks good for you too Vap0

I've passed another huge clot today, stuff they were supposed to have removed. Pain was so bad last night when I rang and asked they wanted to readmit me. I thought I'd see how the night went. Woken up today in less pain. Hopefully now I've passed that clot the pain will ease. Have a lovely weekend ladies xxx

Hi everyone :) Hope you're all vaguely ok.

I'm feeling so sad and angry today. Everything in Paris is just so unbearable. I can't stop thinking about everything those poor people went through, and the nightmare their family and friends now have to endure. It's just pure evil. Why does this keep happening? and that's only one of the horrors that's taking place in the world right now; there's also all the stuff that doesn't make it to the mainstream press. Sorry to start the post, and the weekend, with such negativity but FUCKING HELL. Life is so short and so precious and I'm really starting to wonder if I even want to bring a child into this world :(

Anyway...rant over...but URGHHHHHH.

Onto the "happier" subject of TTC...

Vap - How did your blood test go? I guess you have to wait a while for the results.

That's so great that your friend was understanding. Hopefully by confiding in her and talking to her regularly it'll help you process things.

My cycle varies from 26-29 days. Sometimes I ovulate at a sensible time and about 1/3 of the time I ovulate around CD20-22. I just feel like giving up, but I know that isn't the answer. Hopefully we'll know more when we see the consultant at the end of the month.

Banana - Thanks for being upbeat about my duff eggs and DH's duff sperm! I needed to hear that! I'm just praying there's something they can try.

You're not a horrible bitter twisted hag at all. What you're feeling and the way you're reacting, by hibernating, is completely normal. I know it's the way I've been "coping" and I'm sure others on the thread have been doing the same. I used to be such an energetic, motivated person. I was THAT twat that signed up for everything under the sun and was always BUSY and DOING and ACHIEVING. Now I don't really speak to or see any friends, I've totally lost my motivation at work, I don't really do anything over the weekend. My entire existence revolves around: 1) struggle into work and try to get my work done without screaming at anybody or having a meltdown then leave as early as possible; 2) sometimes shag when I get home, if I HAVE to; and 3) eat chocolate in front of some shit TV programme.

Anyway, that's great that things went well with the consultant. When do you start taking all the meds? Keep us updated! And obviously, best of luck with this round x x x

Science I am so so sorry your ERPC was so difficult (which, of course, it was always going to be). I am also sorry you have passed a clot. From what I have read/heard you're much better off for having the ERPC than passing it naturally, but there may still be "follow on" effects, such as passing clots. My poor friend had a mc at about 11 weeks. She'd been trying for 15 years then got pregnant through IVF. She then miscarried and had to wait for her ERPC but in the mean time she started naturally passing her baby. She said that the whole thing took two weeks! I read her blog post in which she went into detail about the whole thing and, fucking hell, I have never wanted to hug someone so much. It is amazing that people don't really talk about it, because it is such a traumatic experience. You honestly have so much sympathy and support from all of us.

I am also shocked that the DR said that. Was he quite young? It's no excuse, but if he's newish to the job and is in a situation where he just does not know WHAT THE FUCK HE IS MEANT TO SAY he maybe panicked and said the first inane thing that came into his head. A lot of my friends are doctors and are not long out of medical school and I know they've had experiences where they've said the wrong thing because they're trying to be comforting or supportive in a situation where they have little experience and there's a distressed patient and they just don't yet have the experience to know what to do. That said, if he's more experienced/senior that's pretty inexcusable. I don't agree with making complaints unless medical professionals have done something life-threateningly wrong (perhaps because I know the insane stress they're under, and of course things go wrong when they're sleep deprived and running around like head cases trying to get everything done), but if you felt strong enough I would suggest calling the doctor or writing to him and just saying "for future reference, please don't say congratulations to someone who has miscarried their baby". You never know, they may be kicking themselves now.

As for me, I'm CD20 apparently. I had to check. This is another pointless month. I don't even really know when I ovulated, because I had EWCM then a few days later the rapid temp rise, then a day after that a +IC, then a few days later I felt what I assume are ovulation pains (but I don't know if you get these pains before, during or after ovulation - I always assumed during). Who knows. Blah. I'm so bored of this.

So in other news, at the start of the week I went to the GP to ask to get put back on anti-depressants and get some sleeping tablets. I took ADs for about 6 months at the start of 2014 then stopped about 18 months ago when we decided to TTC (we didn't actually start then, but went on a health kick where we gave up booze and started eating all the right things...f*cking mugs). Anyway, I started crying in the appointment because I feel so low and this is all too much. I simply cannot cope with failed TTC and the heartache and I rarely sleep at night because all my mind thinks about is the possibility that I'll never have a baby. The whole appointment was such a struggle though because he was asking lots of "how do you see the next few years panning out?" type questions, which I HATE and of course I HAVE NO IDEA because my future isn't panning out how I thought it would be, so what's the point of even thinking about it? He then said that, as a doctor, he'd recommend that I stop TTC for a year and that I get my mental health back on track. He was saying that I can't be in this state and pregnant because the hormones are only going to do cause me more stress/anguish. I honestly could have screamed. From the perspective of the GP I understand why he said it: his concern is to make me physically and mentally healthy and that is the priority over and above everything else. But that's the perspective of someone who isn't battling infertility. Someone who hasn't been told that they're potentially having ovarian failure/the menopause and who has a DH with sperm issues. He maybe thinks "she's 30, nearly 31, starting again aged 32 will make no difference". But the tests so far suggest it really maybe will. Besides, ignoring the science, I have been ready to have a baby for so long. We put it off until we could afford it and until we were both in stable jobs etc. We can't put it off any longer or there will always be a reason not to do it. Furthermore, if I stopped TTC I would still agonise over it. It's not going to be something I stop wanting, so it's not like I'll forget about it while I'm aware that any fertility is rapidly declining. On top of that (and I promise this rant will end soon) I feel so low because the stress and strain of unsuccessful TTC and there being no baby in sight is getting too much. It is the lack of baby that is making me feel this way. It is not a drug/drink problem, or relationship problems, or some other problem that needs to be "fixed" before a baby can be born. It is the total lack of potential for there being a baby, so how is stopping TTC going to help that?

Urghhhh...over and out...I just needed to rant about it :(

I really hope you all have lovely weekends and are in slightly better moods than me!

Morning

flat I am in total agreement with you about how you feel and stopping trying will not help in the slightest, in fact it will make it worse. I think that the desire for a baby is a struggle for men to understand and they don't see how being pregnant will lift this veil of darkness and give incredible hope and happiness. And I know this to be true as that week we were pregnant I felt free, happy, relaxed, absolutely on top of the world like I used to feel most of the time before infertility struck! I know this will happen again the minute we get that bfp! No amount of stopping will help these feelings.

Do you think you managed to dtd at a possible time of ovulation?

science sorry about the clot, it sounds awful. I hope the bleeding ends soon.

Exciting times banana let us know how the injections go. I do hope you manage to be PUPO before Xmas. We need some good news on this thread!

In the 2 week wait here 7dpo! Can't wait to test! Putting up some Xmas decorations in my mums house today. Not the tree or anything, just garlands, but they have such a massive house if we don't start early it becomes a massive stressful rush or just not very christmassey. Don't hate me for early decorations!

Hola chicas, (i am currently learning espanol)…

the whole paris thing is ridiculous. I got tears in my eyes watching some of it on the news and hearing hollandes speech. how dare people do such a thing.

I am CD28 and just got my first lot of EWCM this clomid cycle. So fuck knows whats going on with this cycle.. retarded body. DH and I will be apart this week but CD15-CD28 we have DTD every day only missing 1 day so I really hope if/when/somehow if I ovulated we have done all we can. Besides quite a lot of drinking … whoops.

Unfortunately I totally believe that lot of OPKs that I bought are total duffs so a waste of my time doing them.

I am off to London for a week tomorrow, DH is going to Chad - what a horrible place to have to be for a few days, locked in a hotel which is guarded by American soldiers! Jeez…

banana i am so hoping and believing you will be PUPO for xmas… I also simply love the acronym PUPO haha! How do you find doing the injections?

science still thinking of you. As for that doctors comment… pah, some people are just idiots and simply crap at saying the right thing.

flat rant away… we hear & feel all your words… I hope this feeling of helplessness will pass for you. I know we all go into these zones for days, weeks but for me generally i do perk out of the gloominess occasionally and I hope you get some respite too. Infertility fucking sucks and the feeling of shittiness about it all is amplified each time you meet one of “those” people (“stop trying and it’ll happen, just relax, don’t think so much about it)…each time you meet one of those people it makes it 10 times worse.

I think the doctor either is one of “those” or he has good intentions of having you in a sound frame of mind before conception. Honestly though I feel he simply doesn’t understand.

Vap 7DPO is super exciting. Yippee for you. Any symptoms to spot? I don’t know if/when I ovulated this month so will start my TWW from around about CD24, I think thats a safe guess in the middle of all the days I have previously ovulated. Expecting AF on 24th Nov/CD38.

So… who is going to be preggers for Xmas…. i demand one of us is…!!!

Science oh lovely, you have been through so so much, I hope the physical pain subsides, and that the emotional pain will begin to heal. Please be kind to yourself, and know that we’re all thinking of you

Flat I think you expressed how I’m sure we’re all feeling so eloquently. It is all just utterly incomprehensible, the complete absence of humanity, urgh. The only comfort I take is seeing the good in people, as the rest of the world pulls together in defiance.

There’s no reason to think you have duff eggs whatsoever! OK, the warehouse might not be especially efficient at shipping, but there’s no reason the merchandise isn’t anything other than top quality.

And you’ve literally described me and my life vs pre infertility me - you could be in my own head. I don’t recognise myself

But it’s interesting, I shared this article on FB, as a sort of veiled reference to what we were going through:

www.the-pool.com/health/wombs-etc/2015/45/how-it-feels-when-your-friends-are-having-babies-and-you-re-not

And I got a good few PMs from friends who came out of the closet to share that they had either been through, or were currently going through, the same. I had no clue at all. As far as I were concerned, the friends with kids were just another couple who popped out a baby. We just don’t know what anyone is going through. The friend (not a close one) who had two kids, had actually been through 7 IUIs, had 2 miscarriages, several chemicals and 2 rounds of IVF plus a natural FET to have her babies. The support and love from fellow infertility soldiers has been truly overwhelming, and made me feel so much less alone.

I am going to say something a bit controversial here, and I am obviously not a Dr so do not take anything I say as medical advice. But in my personal non-expert opinion, I would say that it is far better for your mental health to take the necessary medication to help get you on a more even keel, and the decision about whether or not to pause TTC is entirely a personal one, and shouldn’t be predicated upon whether you’re taking the medication or not. I don’t know what medication the GP is recommending, but there are many many ADs which are taken by thousands of women during pregnancy, so I don’t think it’s a cut and dried either / or. I take a cocktail of medication, and whilst I would give anything to not have to take them, as there are very definite potential risks to a foetus from taking them - but the specialists say that with all of them it’s a case of weighing up whether the benefits outweigh the risks. So even though my epilepsy meds increase the risk of neural tube defects (which is why I take prescription strength folic acid), the risk of an epileptic seizure would be much greater, so under no circumstances should I stop taking them if I were lucky enough to get pregnant. I also take very strong opioid pain meds for a spinal injury, and whilst I would ideally stop taking them in the first trimester, the stress of severe pain would potentially be more damaging than the drugs, and so if I’m lucky enough for it to be a consideration, will be managed as needed. Your mental health and getting some sleep is paramount and you shouldn’t feel bad for making this a priority. It’s the mature and sensible thing to do. Lots of love and luck and support from us all.

Vap love the Xmas spirit! I’m such a bloody grinch about it all, I’m glad you’ve got my share of the Xmas cheer

Newleaf Hola bonita! Tonnes of hugs for DH’s trip, must be so stressful, hope he’s home with you before you know it. And hope your week in London is good (waves from my bit of London to wherever you are)

I love the acronym PUPO too! Really makes me chuckle. Hoping I at least get to transfer something so I can experience the PUPO bubble for the first time…may be the closest I’ll ever get to being pregnant, so would like to try and enjoy the 2ww if we do get that far…

AFM, I did my first buserelin injection last night - I’m way more nervous about down regulating than I was about any of the meds in my first cycle. I’m apprehensive about the side effects of putting my body into menopause - and crapping it my ovaries won’t wake up again! But I know I’m in excellent hands, and my consultant really knows his stuff, and so if he’s recommending this protocol then I have to trust it’s the right thing to be trying!

Long protocol is definitely much longer than short protocol (no shit!) I’ll be injecting for about 4 weeks all being well - vs 10 days last time. It’s not really a big deal though tbh, as they’re a doddle once you get the hang of them. The anticipation of the first one is the worst - the thought of doing it is much worse than the actual doing of it! I’ve been doing them all myself, prefer to be in control of it all - though put DH in charge of mixing and drawing up those meds that come in vials (not pre loaded epipens) Sooo many syringes and needles and sharps bins though!!

I’m home up north for the weekend as it’s the anniversary of my Mum passing away, so came home to be with my Dad. Just been over to see my cousin and their new baby, cuddled her and sniffed her head and it made my heart ache as she gurgled and smiled at me, and rocking her off to sleep. I so so so hope we get a BFP on this thread soon - going through infertility means that I know our children will know just how very very wanted they were, and how much their Mummy and Daddy went through to have them.

Morning everyone . I hope you're all ok.

Thank you everyone for being supportive about the doctor. I left the surgery feeling like people thought I should be sectioned! I think he was a nice guy, and he came over quite caring, and from speaking to DH that's the way GPs are being trained at the moment (DH isn't a GP but works in a 'medical field'). I still found it frustrating though because the minute we started thinking about TTC I came off my meds (I was on Sertraline for depression, but had only been on it 6 months...and some skin medicine which I'd been on for about 4 months). At the time I went to the GP and he said I had to come off the skin meds (which I'd agreed with, as these have been shown to be dangerous to a baby and also having skin problems is not a danger to my health it's just a danger to the general public that have to look at me) but he didn't think I needed to come off the depressions meds (but I'd insisted on it, as I didn't want ANYTHING possibly harming my baby). Like you said Banana, I am now sure that it will be better for the baby if I can get mentally healthier. Firstly, I just don't see us getting pregnant without medical intervention, which will not start for at least 6+ months, so I may as well use that time to get healthier physically and mentally. Secondly, if I DID get pregnant in that time (or any time) I would come off the meds straight away (well, I'd start weening myself off them as soon as I had a BFP). Also, as a couple of you have mentioned, getting a BFP and being pregnant would ease the dark cloud in my mind and this huge feeling of despair that I have. I'm not naive enough to think 'everything will be better'; but it would be such a relief and excitement I cannot see how my mental health wouldn't improve substantially.

Banana - That's so interesting about what you said about your medications. If you do get pregnant, is there any way you can be on lower doses and still be 'protected' from epileptic fits or from such high levels of pain?

It must be so hard, but I agree that you need to just trust your doctor. I can completely understand your fears though. What does Buserelin do? I hope your DH is looking after you and that someone is looking after him too. He sounds like a superstar. This whole TTC shit affects them so much too, but they don't have places like MN to offload about it all.

That's interesting that your friends came forward. Hopefully that makes you feel better and less alone. I've thought about doing something similar, but I don't want 90%+ of my "friends" on Facebook knowing. So many of them would just not understand or would see it as something to gossip about. That said, there must be mums on my Facebook who struggled to get to that point...and I am certain other friends are struggling now (purely because I have got a lot of 'couple' friends who are the right age but haven't had kids, so not all of them can be waiting/not wanting kids). I did put something on Facebook a few months ago when MN was hacked, just saying about security etc. Loads of people started making comments about Ashley Maddison (Hilarious. Not.) but one friend PM'd me as she'd heard about the MN hack. Basically, after a bit of "are you pregnant?" "Who? Me? No. Are you pregnant?" "Me? No? Erm I sort of was though" conversation, she told me about how she'd been trying for 15 years and had recently miscarried her IVF baby. I would never have guessed that she wanted kids, let alone had been through so much.

I'm so sorry it's the anniversary of your mum passing away. How are you feeling? I hope you and your dad are ok. It must be such a horrible time.

Ooooo a fellow northerner? Are you a true northerner (north of North Yorkshire) or are you actually really a southerner (south of Leeds)? Ha ha. We've got a couple of northerners and southern-northerners on this thread .

Vap - did you enjoy putting decorations up? I can't believe you've put them up already! You're crazy . Hope you had fun though!

You're just getting to the worst part of the TWW though, you poor thing. Are you going to test or wait to see if AF comes?

I don't know if we DTD at the right times, especially as I'm not really sure when ovulation was. We DTD 4 times around the right time. That said, we've always DTD around the right time (and sometimes, every day/twice a day/EOD) but have never had any success. Sounds like you did it loads!

NewLeaf - How are you getting on? I'm sorry your DH has to go to Chad. I assume that's for work? I hope he doesn't find it too challenging being out there. Has he been before?

Birchy Magpie Science - I hope you're all doing ok .

AFM (in addition to doctor dramas about) I've been starting to look at adoption. I now feel even more depressed than before. Everywhere I look it basically says that you have little to no chance of adopting an infant (like, sub 12 months) and unless you're prepared to wait years and years, you'll probably need to adopt a 3+ year old (or more likely, a 5+ year old). I've also noticed that on many of the forums people who are new to adoption and ask questions like "what are my chances of adopting a baby?" are totally shot down, or the ones that say "I'm changing my work arrangements so I can work part time/flexibly" are shot down and told "how dare you think about adopting unless you're prepared to give up work entirely". It just seems so unfair that after (for most people) battling infertility and years and years of the drugs/operations/general hell that you have to go through (when most people get their baby for free) people act like you're some sort of sex offender or child murderer for daring to ask if you could be given the opportunity to raise a non-biological baby.

flat adoption is so bloody hard! Even the good cases I have read on mn adoption forums they generally have to wait for 3 years as a minimum. Apparently there are scores of prospective parents for every child. I don't know where the stories of kids lining up waiting to be adopted come from? I have a friend in a same sex relationship who has started looking into adoption. She is a perfect candidate, she is young, in a stable relationship, already surrounded by small kids (family) not spoken with her in a while about it but I know it is a long journey for her, it was over a year ago when they went to their 1st meeting and registered themselves. That time scale coupled with the having to wait for a year (I think) after having any fertility appointments I think that we are going to be too old for adoption. It has been my back up for at least a year but I think preparing myself for that not happening now will make it easier I think.

Haha free babies! Who would have ever thought we were planning on having to buy a baby. That is exactly how I see it now! I will be over the moon if we do ever manage to have a free baby one day.

Xmas decorating was fun, Christmas songs on too, but the age old issue of lights for one of them didn't work so we couldn't do that one. It's the final Xmas decoration with the old style lights. Will buy some next week. We will be doing our house and tree on the last weekend of Nov. We won't get chance otherwise. I have smooth Xmas on in my car now it started Saturday.

newleaf great to hear about your Spanish! How long have you been learning for?

We are 8dpo here today. Did an IC this morning and of course bfn. Af due net Sunday. Will keep testing...

Vap - In the nicest possible way, I think I need to avoid you for the next 6 weeks . I am the total opposite. I get so annoyed about all the Christmas decorations up and Christmas music on. I think it's because I feel it's turned into this long, drawn out, commercialised season, rather than a week or two of celebration and fun. By the time Christmas comes I'm sick of it all! It's probably rose-tinted-memories, but when I was a kid I remember the wind down in the last week of school and the Christmas cards coming out and then the excitement of the Christmas holiday for two weeks. Now I already have people asking what my Christmas plans are (erm...to survive?) and what I've bought my husband (erm...nothing. My love is the only present he needs, right?). I am already weary of arranging Christmas parties and thinking about it. I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL JANUARY! Bah humbug. Although come January, for the 4 weeks I do struggle to park at the gym and get onto the treadmill and get to best weights machines, so maybe it's not so great.... .

Adoption is so hard. Many of the sites and forums say don't try it unless you've tried EVERYTHING (like, donor eggs/sperm even surrogacy and all of that stuff. ARGGGHHHH). I think it's bad that they try so hard to keep the baby/child with the birth mum, or in her absence a member of her family (and extended family). It's maybe simplistic, but if someone gets pregnant and they don't want the baby, surely any family members who WANT to raise the child (rather than being asked to raise the child) would step up prior to the child being placed for adoption or in the early stages? It must be so damaging for the child to be placed with the mother/family members who don't want the baby with all their hearts, then they either get adopted age 3/4/5+ (by which point so much damage has been done) or they stay with a family who don't really, 100%, truly want them (very simplistic I know, and I'm sure there are many cases where people step up to the plate). I'm a very big believer that biology and money and all of these things don't offer a child anything, but having love and stability and someone who will prioritise them over everything will.

Sorry about the BFN. I'm CD21 and am due AF on Sat/Sun.

Is there a single advert right now that doesn't have children/babies in? ....gah...can't even watch TV to escape it all

Yes
This one

m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLfMrj74otA

Just brilliant

I approve Vap. I won't leave the room next time that one's on x

Flat your plan sounds eminently sensible. My friend was also on Roaccutane for her skin (I’m assuming that’s what you were on?) and wasn’t allowed to have the prescription unless she agreed to have a coil or go on the pill because it was so very embryotoxic. However anti depressants most definitely do not fall into that category!

For my epilepsy I actually got referred to a consultant obstetric physician who literally wrote the book on prescribing in pregnancy. He said GPs were far too over cautious to the detriment of the mother’s health - and then in turn to the baby’s. For example, he said many women have been advised by their GPs to stop taking the epilepsy medication. The risk of birth defects is increased vs the general population, but not by much. The risk of spina bifada is 2-4% in ‘normal’ people, and about 5-6% in women taking lamotrigine (higher for other epilepsy drugs - which is why I’m on the one that’s preferred for women of child bearing age). He said women have died because they were advised to stop taking their meds because of potential risks to the foetus - and had seizures and fallen down the stairs or drowned in the bath. Pregnancy hormones can actually interfere with the metabolism of this drug apparently, so doses can sometimes need to be increased in pregnancy - to keep you within therapeutic range. Conversely, apparently the pregnancy hormones can often alleviate some pain conditions (although other things can take their place!!)

Main point is that there are no simple cut and dried answers to anything. Can you see another GP in the practice just for a second opinion? Also, can you get referred - or stretch to a few private sessions - of CBT? Apols if you’re already all over this, just know how helpful many friends have found it.

Buserelin is a ‘down regulating’ drug - basically it will switch off the production of hormones in my pituitary to put my body into temporary menopause, and will get rebooted when I start stimulation injections. This is the ‘long’ protocol - which means about 2.5 weeks of down regulating injections, before a baseline scan to check my ovaries are quiet and lining is thin. Then I keep going with the buserelin (to stop premature ovulation) and I start the FSH injections. Last time I was on ‘short’ protocol - which I started off a natural cycle and skipped the down regulating. I was stimming for about 12 days last time, so this time I’ll have 4 weeks of injections instead of just under 2. Bit nervous about the side effects of down regging, they’re not supposed to be terribly pleasant - although not everyone seems to get the hot sweats and headaches, so we’ll see. I blew up on stims last time - put on about 5lbs of water weight in about 4 days. Couldn’t wear any of my jeans and looked several months pregnant. Oh the irony!! But amazingly my belly went down within 24h of egg collection. And tbh the physical side of IVF is really a doddle. It’s the emotional (and financial!) side that’s the really hard part.

Does Manchester count as true oop north?!

Oh and I’m with you on being a Xmas grinch. I find it all so forced and wearing. We don’t do Xmas pressies in my family as we all have enough ‘stuff’. My SIL is a massive Xmas enthusiast and very sweet but she keeps buying me gifts saying ‘I know you don’t do presents but I do’, and genuinely doesn’t expect anything back: and so now I have to anticipate her surprising me with a pressie after we’ve said no pressies. Bah humbug!

I’m with you both Vap and flat about adoption. I have friends who have adopted, and it was a loooong road. My friend was telling me about family friends who were trying to adopt a little girl with Downs, and the hoops they had to go through were ridiculous. Essentially this was a girl who had very little chance of being adopted otherwise - it’s a LOT to take on, I don’t think I could do it by choice - and yet it was as if they were being blocked at every stage.

It also pisses me off whenever I see anyone (usually in the comments on news sites - so my own stupid fault for reading them!) post about IVF couples ‘why don’t you just adopt’. Firstly, as you say, there is no ‘just adopt’, and secondly, I want to say to these people ‘do YOU have your own biological children? In which case why didn’t YOU ‘just adopt’ first? Why is it OK for you to want to have your own biological family and not for us’. Drives me spare.

My heart ached this weekend, when I visited my cousin and his wife, to see their new baby girl. My cousin’s wife is a grade A moron, the kind of woman who’s posting pictures of quinoa and stories about how juicing can cure cancer to FB (amongst other crimes), and I wanted to belt her. She’s basically playing dollies, now she’s got a girl after having her son - her 7 week old daughter was dressed in a pink tutu FFS. She also didn’t ‘fancy the idea of breastfeeding’ with either kid, and said she ‘couldn’t be bothered’ with the thought of having to spend hours trying to get them to latch on, and so never even bothered to try it. It’s absolutely a personal choice and no woman should be pressured or made to feel bad however she feeds her child. BUT. It was the flippant way she just dismissed the idea out of hand as an inconvenience. I regaled with all the gory detail of IVF as a pointed statement that she really should appreciate what she has - she was pretty astonished about what was involved, as she had no idea. She’s still a knobhead, but at least maybe she might think a bit more. The baby was gorgeous, but I can’t deny I had a lump in my throat when she was gurgling away and drifting off to sleep in my arms - the pang that I might never get to experience this was so very hard.

Cor, I don't half waffle on. Sorry for epic rant post

Hugs to you all xx

Hi All

How is everyone? birch science newleaf hope you are all holding up ok?

flat adoption forums etc have made me think now that we can't do it. From the incredible wait to the almost certainty of having a terribly emotionally affected 3-6 year old child who has been through various amounts of unthinkable abuse. I just think after this journey I don't think I could do it. Do you think you could do it still? I hate to say it but I was one of those people who always said "if we can't have our own child we will adopt" - wow! I just never knew how difficult it is. When you read American forums people talk about how they can't afford to adopt. No idea what they charge in the USA but it appears multiple IVF treatments are cheaper??? flat will you be testing before af? It appears we are due on the same day, there or there abouts!

I have been using ic's for the last couple of days and nothing. 9dpo today. Ov blood test results due back tomorrow....

Gosh banana and flat I'm so sorry the drugs you need to take cause you both worry for potential babies. It must add even more stress to the situation.

Banana I'm out with customers oh Thursday night in Manchester! It's nice to hear people are close by. Your sister sounds like me. I don't want anything back but love to give something for people to open. My bro and sil have told us not to buy for them as we will be buying for their kids but I can't help myself. Just a little something. Have no idea what to buy for the baby for Xmas. The only person I can't deal with. I still struggle being around this child knowing she was thought of a long time after we had started trying. I know it's totally unfair to see her in this light and I'm a total cow for looking at it like this but I can't help myself. She is a beautiful child but I feel like she can feel my feelings when I hold her as all she ever does is cry when I hold her. I'm good with babies usually, or at least used to be.

banana your cousins wife sounds like someone you need to steer clear of! It's just so sad we have these feelings of animosity to people who we would never normally think twice about. Im there with you for every "friend" or family member who has a baby

One day we will have this precious gift and we will cherish our children so much more than "normal" people. We will be stronger, more capable and more empathetic for it all. We will be better people. We just have to go through the bitter stage first.

OH MY GOD!
LOOK AT THIS!!!!

Woop woop Vap - congrats!! A line is a line and THAT my friend is a line

Thank you banana!
Now to make this one stick!
I'm so excited!
But terrified!

Huge congratulations Vap! This is totally amazing. You must be over the moon . Best of luck for the next 8.5 months x

Thanks flat

Oh Vap0, I'm so pleased for you. So envious, but so happy all at the same time xxxx

Wooooooooo

This is the one for you Vap. Huge congrats to u and DH....!

I'm so glad someone got a BFP before Xmas!

So so pleased!

Thanks all for the well wishes!
I'm trying to stay as chilled out as I can about it all and keep stress levels down which seems to be working, I feel a sense of calm and serenity since poas yesterday. So have stopped temping. Have resisted poas this morning. Think I'll poas at the weekend with an ic to see if there is a line, there was only a shadow yesterday which any normal person would have ignored.
Not sure if I'm just being lazy but woken up after 8hrs sleep totally shattered. Tiredness was a big thing for me last time.
Will stick about but try not to rub all your noses in it. I just really hope this one sticks..... This bfp has made me even more determined to eat healthily and walk 10,000 steps per day. Work can go on the back burner. Just need to get though the 2 drinking meet ups with work without anyone noticing. I've started laying some foundations for an excuse with toothache.
I hope this gives you all hope!
I'd love to see another bfp before Xmas.... Everything crossed for all of you!

I have arranged to take my niece 3yo to see Father Christmas on 23 dec. I'm very excited about it! We are going on a train where the sole purpose of the train is to take you to see Father Christmas, through beautiful scenery in North Wales. We will be given mince pies and a tipple and kids will get a snack and a present from the big guy himself. I haven't told her yet. I'm so excited myself. We took my nephews about 10 years ago when they were young and they loved it, we have some amazing pics from the day. Need to get my slr charged up and ready for the day.

Bless you Science, we're all thinking of you.

Vap - that sounds like a lovely plan! I hope you have fun. Yes - just do what you can to be healthy and relax. Sod work for a while!

Start of AF cramps and other horrible pre-AF symptoms for me. I just want to cry and scream and be allowed to spend all day in bed.

Flat, you should definitely spend all day in bed. That's were you can often find me!

An awful lot has happened here over the last few days. On Saturday I tried to have a day with friends but by 5pm they realised something was wrong. I ended up being readmitted to hospital and had a 5x2x3cm piece of something left inside me. They pumped me with plenty of morphine and antibiotics. The chunk was infected and was in serious danger of septicaemia. I had the exact same operation again on Monday and am now home again with plenty of antibiotics.

Just desperate for life to get back to a new normal as I'm finding life pretty impossible.

Take care Vap0 xxx