Rumples IVF/ICSI thread continued

[lildottie]

Our thread was originally started by Rumples who now has her bfp, as have a few other ladies along the way. Here's hoping the next thread holds a few more bfps!

I think that time after ec is just the worst shell I remember each day feeling like a year. praying for good news for you tomorrow.

good luck shell x

Thank you both. Well it turns out of the 5 eggs, only 3 were mature. Surprising since my 4th largest follicle was 13mm early on the morning prior to trigger so it still had that whole day plus the next day to grow before my trigger the following night. In previous cycles, follicles at 14mm have produced mature eggs, so I don't know why this one didn't. Anyway, it is what it is. So of the 3, 2 fertilised. I was a bit disappointed when I got the phone call and went from 5 to 2. But I had a day 3 transfer today and both were at the optimal cell number with one having 8 cells and the other having 10 cells so at least that is reassuring. I asked about fragmentation and both have a little fragmentation. But I remember reading that cell number on day 3 is more indicative of a viable embryo than fragmentation, so I am going to refrain from googling and live with that hope to get me through the next two weeks.

shell focus on the positives, you had embryos to transfer. and if it helps my 2 had slight fragmentation and I got a bfp so it does happen. try and stay busy and positive. when is otd?

Fingers and toes crossed for you Shell xxx

The clinic did give me a piece of paper saying when to test lil, but I purposely didn't pay attention to it. If I know I have to go for a blood test in say 12 days, then I am going to be counting down the minutes and it's going to drag on even longer. Reassuring to know that your embryos had slight fragmentation too so thanks for that. I also thought of you and the fact that you too only had 2 to transfer yet still got a BFP so that's reassuring too.

Thank you for the well wishes Laura. Now the count down begins.

exactly, positive thoughts! we'll be here for you whatever happens, but believe it can happen now and you never know, it just might! x

Hard to know what to think. I have moments where I am positive and if this was my first IVF, I'd probably be thinking that the sperm issue has been overcome with ICSI and to just expect to be pregnant. But with 10 failed IVF attempts behind me, and having 5 embryos transferred previously that have all failed along with many more eggs in the lab that didn't even make it to transfer, I have moments of positivity and then get worried that I will only have further to fall! I am definitely enjoying being able to quit the high protein diet and go back to being vego so that's a plus.

Can you remind me about your estrogen dosage lil? Was it 2mg tablets taken twice a day starting after EC? And then you continued it even after the positive pregnancy test - until week 12 if you had of made it that far? And did it matter if you took it with or without food? My clinic does not do this as standard and it is just something my Dr said I can try if I want to, so just making sure I am doing it right!

Oh, and I looked at that paper - OTD is 20th.

I was on 2mg 3times a day I think she'll, but I wasn't told to take it with food. I did because doing 3 times a day meant I remembered it that way! I had it from before ec because of something on 2nd scan, never really understood why. they stared me on the protein shakes at same time so maybe don't quit the diet just yet. I was to continue the shakes past my bfp until I was told I could stop, and oestrogen until 12wks pg. it was something to do with follicles leaking protein that they put me on shakes. I have a feeling oestrogen may have been to thicken my lining as it wasnt thickening fast enough.

Hello, I'm on one of the other threads but I've been following your progress and am really rooting for you, Shellster, and everyone else too!

I wanted to let you know that I was prescribed 2mg estradiol, three times a day, for the last few days of stimming. I had egg collection yesterday and am now to take 4mg in the morning, 2mg at lunchtime and 4mg in the evening. As well as 2x progesterone suppositories three times a day.

I am 39, AMH 0.4 and apparently a thin lining at my 'baseline' scan (before I had started taking anything, but in the last week of my cycle when it should have been thick, after ovulation), plus low motility, so ICSI. One ovary didn't respond at all, the other managed to get 5 eggs. I find out today how many have been fertilised. Oh and I have a 3yo already, conceived naturally without problem.
Just in case that helps!

oh and no info about whether to take pills with food or not. But my clinic didn't even tell me to drink lots of water, size of follicles, or anything much!

Thanks for you're well wishes Miffy. Sounds like we are in a very similar position. I am 38. I too have a DS - 4 years old conceived naturally. I too have low AMH and respond poorly to IVF stims and also had 5 eggs collected, 3 which were suitable for fertilsing. DH also has sperm issues so ICSI for us as well, which resulted in 2 fertilisng.

Interesting (well, actually confusing!) that every clinic seems to have a different protocol for taking estrogen after EC. My clinic does not do it at all, lildottie takes 6mg daily and you miffy are taking a whopping 10mg a day. A lady on another thread had to take 4mg a day starting the evening of EC, she had two embryos transferred and both took. So that is a different dosage again. I decided to follow this last dosage of 4mg based on a study I read that had some women take 2mg, some take 4mg and a third group 6mg after EC. The 4mg group had the highest pregnancy rate of around 40%.

But more relevant for you lil is that the 4mg group also had the lowest m/c rate of around 2%. The 6mg group had around a 9% m/c rate and the 2mg group had a whopping 20% m/c rate. So 4mg produced the highest preg rate and lowest m/c rate. Sounded like the best option to me. Plus the lady on the other thread did this and both her embryos took which seemed like further evidence.

I can find the study again and provide a link if you are interest lil and want to ask your clinic.

Good luck Miffy. You will have to come back to this thread now and let me know how you get on with fertilisation and how things go as I will be thinking of you now.

yes please shell, link would be great. hope you're managing to stay sane.

here is the link lil. Although now that I read this study again, I notice that all participants were on the long protocol and I've read before that women who down regulate have a sharper drop in hormones during the luteal phase of the IVF cycle, so perhaps this is not relevant to us women on the short protocol? Although the lady I know of on the other thread who had both embryos take was prescribed 4mg and she was on the short protocol. Who knows!

It also depends what their oestrogen levels were. If they were quite high already, 2mg may be enough, you know?
My clinic tested mine at every visit and my lining was very thin beforehand, so I imagine my levels were very low,which is why my dose is high.

thanks shell, I will give it a read. good from my POV as I'm long protocol, but throws another ? out for you!
my levels weren't tested at all Miffy but like you I was given it because my lining was too thin at 2nd scan.

Yes that makes sense Miffy. How did you get on with your 5 eggs?

That article might be very applicable for you then lil. I find it very interesting that 4mg produced a 2% m/c rate while 2mg produced a 20% m'c rate. Really shows that there are reasons other than genetic viability of the embryo and that having our hormones right is very important.

My cycles are usually 24-27 days long. Today is day 26 and I am feeling the usual pre-period cramping in my uterus so I'm in a bit of panic mode. Of course it could just be the embryo burrowing in, but with my period due now and this being the definite pre-period feeling instead of the very different pregnant feeling I got with my brief preg after last transfer, I am feeling a bit stressed. I always wake up to my period so I guess if I wake up tomorrow and no period, then todays feeling could be considered a good sign. The rest of today is really going to drag now.

Are you taking progesterone, Shell? And/or oestrogen? If so, I thought theycan mimic pregnancy and AF symptoms - and that you should not bleed until you stop taking them. Though I could be wrong.

2 ofmy3 didn't make it through thenight so they put 1 back yesterday- a 2 day transfer. Hard to feel positive...

Feeling exhausted - probably the emotion. Anything I should be doing to boost my chances, do you know?

positive thinking and relaxing and sticking to high protein diet is about all you can do now Miffy

re the progesterone, I was on pessaries last Ivf and my mc bleed started whilst I was using them.

shell stay positive, that's all you can do now.

Oh man, I thought high protein was justfor egg production, not after transfer too! Gah.

Miffy I was put on protein shakes after ec, something to do with follicles leaking protein. no idea why or what causes it. it may have been follicle numbers/ sizes. I had about 20 growing follicles but only 11big enough for collection and 10 of those mature. still only had 2 embryos by day2 so don't hate me too much I've not really researched it tbh.

Not possible to hate you, lildottie! With only five eggs collected, it may not be a problem for me but I'll try to up my protein levels just in case.

I've not stopped feeling a bit rubbish since Thursday's egg collection - low abdominal crampyness and exceedingly physically tired. I'm guessing this is due to the high dose of oestrogen & progesterone I'm on. Did anyone else experience this? If so, did it last the whole two weeks?
I'd really like it to go away so I can try to forget about all this for a bit (deluded, I know). At least starting so early, it's not possible for me to start wondering if it is pg symptoms!

oh and sorry about the mc and bleed, lildottie. I guess that is why my doctor said, 'you shouldn't bleed before you finish taking the progesterone and oestrogen'. I took that to mean you won't, but now I see it is just being hopeful.

thanks Miffy. I was a mess at the time but I've very much accepted it now. just desperate to get to round 2!
I felt pretty crap for quite a few days after ec too. I cant remember how long it lasted but I remember being really crampy, like bad AF cramps but in a different place, all the way through until my hcg plummeted after my bfp. I also felt really tired for about a week, I think because of the sedative at ec. I was soooo out of it. they struggled to get me to come round. I told dh to f off apparently!! I remember nothing! but I think that's y I felt rubbish rather than the prog/oestrogen. hopefully its a good sign for you!

Yes I am on both estrogen and progesterone Miffy. I've had 3 transfers previously and like lil, I too have got my period while taking the progesterone every time. But you are right, the cramps could be the medication, or perhaps it could be the embryo implanting, or perhaps it could be my period coming but the progesterone is just delaying things. I just have to SOMEHOW stay sane and be patient. I know exactly what you mean about wanting to forget this - I wish they would sedate me for the 2ww and wake me up to tell me I'm pregnant!

I too am feeling excessively tired and had a day nap yesterday and the day before. I just assumed it's due to the fact that this whole thing is so emotionally exhausting, rather than it being the medication.

I am sorry to hear that two embryos did not make it to day 2 Mif. Was the one transferred at the correct stage - 4 cells by day two if I am correct? I read a study saying that embryos do better in your uterus than in the petri dish so hopefully that's the case with your embryos. And lil is proof of this - as she said, she had 11 eggs collected but only had 2 alive at her day 2 transfer and to be honest I felt really sad for her at that point that her embryos must all be poor quality and she was definitely going to get a BFN, but it did result in a pregnancy - although sadly a brief one.