Rumples IVF/ICSI thread continued

[lildottie]

Our thread was originally started by Rumples who now has her bfp, as have a few other ladies along the way. Here's hoping the next thread holds a few more bfps!

hi ladies, hope you dont mind me joining either. i think i came on this thread a while ago and then went quite... i had my immune testing done and just got the results today:
30 march - original level: 43.0
26 may: 31.8
ideal number: 30.5

ive been told im slightly over the 'recommended level' but dr happy for me to start my cycle.

period due in a few days time and im on a long protocol.

just thought i come on here for some advice and support :)

From memory Grin, you had 2 eggs retrieved first time - so 4 eggs second time? Did they change anything from 1st to 2nd round? Are they considering it just bad luck that 0 of 6 fertilised, or are they changing things for you next time in the hope of 'fixing' this.

It certainly helps to have some support while you go through your cycle aussie. I'm not at all familiar with immunes testing but your 31.8 seems pretty close to the ideal 30.5. What did you have to take to lower your number? Will you continue to take it during the cycle? If I remember right, you had a frostie. Are you choosing to start fresh instead of using that?

Sorry for all the questions! I am about to embark on the last IVF I can afford so I am asking lots of questions to make sure I leave no stone unturned in an effort to make this last IVF a success.

Hi Shell I had four collected, two were useful and zero fertilised then second time around was six collected, four useful and zero fertilised.
We weren't going to use ICSI this last time but since DH did a frozen sample (due to work commitments) and it didn't defrost well we had to.
We upped the gonal-f from 125 to 175 this time. FS won't change the protocol but wants to do a fresh IVF. If it fails again I might change clinics.
We are making some adjustments ourselves by taking some supplements.
I'm taking-
DHEA (ordering from UK as script only here and FS doesn't believe in it)
Pregnenolone
L-Arginine
Folic Acid
Aspirin
Multi Vitamin
Vitamin C

DH is taking:
Antioxidant (resveratol)
Zinc (in case the failures are due to sperm defragmentation)
L-Arginine
Multi vitamin
Goji berries

Most of the supplements are recommended by Wazza at QFG in Brisbane. He is the IVF guru. Huge success rate with a waiting list to prove it.

hi shelter, ive decided to do a fresh cycle and leave the frosty for time being. immune testing (from my understanding) is not covered by all clinics as some believe it helps and others argue theres not enough evidence. its mainly used if you've had re-occurant miscarriages or failed cycles. i had the choice to opt in or out... i chose in as didnt want any regrets afterwards to 'what ifs'. having said that... it is expensive and did delay my cycle but im hoping it was worth it!

the initial blood test is expensive as it goes to Chicago. after which, i had to take 2 humeria injections two weeks apart and then had to retest my levels 3 weeks later. the whole thing cost just over £2k but it might be something worth you looking into or even just getting a initial test to see where your levels are sitting at.

I read about reproductive immunology but my clinic is one that doesn't believe in it. if I could get tested I would as no other tests gave any reason for my mc after last cycle. I just hope and pray it doesn't happen again. don't think dh will let me do a third cycle :(

hi lil, sorry to hear about your mc. is it too late to go to another clinic for the test and see what they say? xxx

not too late really but I'm reluctant to change as the staff are all danrltastic and they do seem very up to date with research. I was even teated for a clinical trial re miscarriage so got an extra blood test for free. all my testing since mc has been done as NHS which I hadn't expected either and there is no waiting list. plus location is a big factor. I'd have to travel much further to other clinics. I'm just trying to focus on the fact we aren't having ivf because if anything wrong with me, the blood tests showed no reason for the mc, and they are a common thing in first pg anyway so hoping to put it down to bad luck and be snuggling my new born by this time next year. I'm also praying for a miracle bfp before!!

What is Pregnenolone Grin? I am already taking all the other supplements except for l-arginine. (I used to take it after reading a positive study about it, but then read a couple of negative ones about it so I decided to stop.

I didn't realise zinc helps with sperm fragmentation. My hubby has been very annoyingly difficult with his vitamins. He whinges every time I hand them to him and I have found them around the house so he obviously doesn't take them every time I hand them to him! Yet he is the one with the sperm issue and I am going through IVF injections and egg collections and yet he winges about swallowing some supplements! So I haven't given them to him every night because it just causes me stress, but I am going to get tough on him now that the final IVF cycle I can afford is approaching.

I am already in debt from my last IVF aussie and will be going further into debt for my last approaching IVF cycle - so definitely can't afford another 2k for immunes. But I have one son who is 4, so I guess that is evidence that I don't have any issues.

lil, can I ask about your estrogen dosage after your EC. My IVF Dr is allowing me to try it based on my own research, but my clinic does not do this so they have no advice for me regarding it. Was it 2mg or 4mg that you took? Did you start it the same day after your EC? Did you stop it when you got your BFP or were you to continue on until 12 weeks if all went well. Sorry, I think you've told me all this before but I've had a couple of cancelled cycles and haven't made it to EC for a while so now I've forgotten!

My DHEA order has been called as they won't ship to Australia now (they used to). It's a vitamin bought over the counter In the UK!!!
Pregnenolone is a type of steroid, a precursor to progesterone and oestrogen.

I bought DHEA off ebay. My day 2 scan earlier this cycle showed only 7 follicles so I wasn't sure if the DHEA of ebay was the real deal, and got my Dr to write a script for it which I got made up at a compound pharmacy to make sure I am getting the right stuff. I also asked the Dr for a DHEA and testosterone blood test and had blood taken while I was waiting for my new script to be made. My DHEA levels were on the high side so the MRM brand on ebay definitely does something if that's any help to you.

Thanks for that tip!

You are welcome :)

Have just delayed my IVF by 2 weeks so I don't have to go on bcp for an extra month because my stupid cycle means af due at the wrong time!

That is always the way lil! Grr. I always hate it when my day 15 of my IVF cycle falls on a Sunday (the one day my clinic does not do EC) because that is the day I usually ovulate naturally and also the day my eggs tend to be mature for IVF egg collection. But you wouldn't believe how many times when I have prepared to do IVF the following cycle, my period has turned up on the 1 in 7 days that makes day 15 a Sunday!

So when will you actually be starting IVF then?

it's so frustrating isn't it shell. I'm now due to start bcp between 14/7 and 7/8. I expect AF will be around 27/7 though. not sure what date I start injections but first scan is 9/9 and ec will be wc 21/9. at first I felt horrified I'd delayed it but actually it is only 2 weeks and I feel better knowing I'll be on bcp for a shorter time, and we get one more go naturally.

Glad you're feeling better about it now you've had time to accept the adjustment. I don't do the pill down regging as I am a poor responder already and that would over suppress me. But now that I look at your dates, I see how it makes the treatment drag out - starting BCP as early as 14/7 and not getting to EC until w/c 21/9! I hope it's all worth it though and things work out. In fact, more than hoping the IVF works out, I hope the a la natural method works out and you don't need to commence IVF! Must be more frustrating that it doesn't happen naturally now knowing that DH's swimmers are okay and having seen first hand that they are able to penetrate and fertilise an egg in the petri dish so why the hell isn't it happening inside you?!?!

lol thanks shell, yeah it is frustrating. I was hoping for the "mc makes you more fertile" to work for me with his new sperm but oh well. if his sample hadn't been so improved I wouldn't have worried about dates but I want to have as many chances as possible for natural conception without an infinite wait on doing ivf again. so this way I've optimised the original plan! yes long protocol is what it says in the tin.. loooooooooonnnnnggggg! lol. but last time was worse. I went on bcp 16/11 and didn't start buserelin until 28/12. I haven't been given a date for injecting yet but based in last time I think it will be around 20/8. as AF due 27/7 its only a 3.5week wait this time! also works better as our wedding anniversary is 3/9 so if we want to go away we can now as no scans to worry about! how's everything your end going?

I'm trying to understand the details of your protocol - I thought you would start the BCP with the onset of a period but you know your period is due around 27/7, yet you could start the BCP anywhere between 14/7 & 7/8. So what's the determining factor for when they decide the correct date to start BCP? And then you go straight from BFP to injections without waiting for a period in between.

I'm plodding along on my end. Got my period today. I tried to have regular sex in the lead up to ovulation as well as during ovulation but obviously that didn't help. I left a message for the nurse and am waiting for a call back about starting IVF this cycle. I really want a day 2 scan again to ensure I have just a few more follicles that last cycle and make sure I am not wasting my money, but I know how difficult this nurse is to get along with and how she cuts most of my sentences short so I am dreading speaking to her. Once that's over with, I'll have a date for my day 2 scan and I will dread that! So it's going to be a month of dread! Passing one hurdle and then moving straight on to worrying about the next - my life in an IVF cycle!

14/7-7/8 is the date range set by the clinic. in that window AF will be due around 27/7 for me. on the previous "batch" as they call it I needed AF to come between 30/6-24/7. next one due 21/6 and I have long cycles so not due until after 24/7 hence why I delayed rather than start bcp on 21/6. I start bcp before day5 of the cycle when AF comes (the one due 27/7) and then I think I should remember this I stop bcp the day before injections start so have a breakthrough bleed for first few days of injecting. first scan checks lining is thin enough then I start menopur and have 2more scans to check lining is increasing enough (it wasn't at scan 2 last time so they put me on oestrogen) and count follicles. then third scan to check what day they want me to trigger based on follicle sizes. scans were about a week and a half from 1st - 3rd.

be pushy. you're paying for this, you are entitled to a day2 scan!!! you are employing them for this, they aren't doing you a favour. someone clearly needs to remind your nurse of this give me the number I'll give her a piece of my mind, probably wake her up too!

Shell have you heard what the government has done now to Medicare and the PBS? All fertility drugs are now subject to a co-payment of $37.50 (or $6.50 if you have a HCC) on top of the normal fees. This starts July 1.
My clinic is not absorbing the cost and you can get your medication from a normal chemist...but you still pay the normal full amount for a cycle.
Hmm I wonder if this is due to the GP copayment not passing through the senate?

I see lil, so your clinic does cycles in 'batches'. At least you know you got 11 eggs on that protocol last time so you can hope you will get good numbers again.

No I hadn't heard that Grin. On the one hand I am grateful that at least they allow us to get thousands back on medicare. On the other hand, there are plenty of couples out there that can produce children for free but don't work and I get frustrated that I give thousands away in tax to raise their children while I go into debt to be able to have my own. Some people out there truly have circumstances that I don't mind financially supporting, but I know a few couples that are perfectly able to work and it's frustrating to see them producing multitudes of children that I am financially raising instead of being able to put my hard earned money towards my own! Okay rant over. Must stay away from these couples in the next two weeks so I can keep calm for my IVF.

yes shell, when I asked clinic if they would change anything they were like, "9well no, from our POV it worked, you got pg!" I think my biggest worry atm is not even getting pg this time. I think that would be worse than another mc for me. then I realise how stupid that sounds when you're on round 10.

You are completely entitled to feel whatever you feel about your upcoming IVF. I know that I shouldn't complain when there are many women on here who can only dream of being in my position of having one child, let alone trying to conceive a second like me. But it doesn't change the way I feel and my desperation for my son to have a sibling and for me to have the opportunity to enjoy having a baby after things started wrong with DS. You definitely do not sound stupid at all.

So I went for a baseline scan today. You might recall my scan on day 2 of last cycle revealing on 7 follicles (5 left and 2 right) so I decided to postpone. I upped my DHEA dose last cycle after reading studies how it increases follicles. But still exactly the same result with 5 left and 2 right. I was so disappointed. I mean I wasn't expecting miracles, but I didn't feel unrealistic in wanting a minimum of 10 when I've had previous cycles with 15-16. So why suddenly only 7 - less that half what I started with previous cycles?!?!

Second, studies show how my estrogen priming protocol (EPP)has follicles grow at a more co-ordinated rate. My first two IVF cycles had very scattered follicle growth so I tried the EPP for my 3rd IVF and it worked a treat with my day 8 scan showing 5 of 8 follicles between 10-12mm. But again, my body has defied science and already today there is a lead follicle at 9mm.

But with the knowledge that I am turning 38 next month and the fact that I am going to be very depressed if that happens and still no baby, I decided to collect my meds and start anyway and see what grows and hope for a miracle. Going for a follow up scan on Monday.

Hi Lil and Shell, I think I'm somewhere between the two of you now!

Shell Gutted for you that the DHEA hasn't had the desired effect on your follicles. Hope the follow up scan is more promising for you and really wish you all the very best if you continue this cycle with your treatment.

Lil Your protocol sounds so confusing but you seem to have got your head around it well. The time seems to drags so much waiting for things to start but it will be here before you now it.

Well my drugs arrived at work today, start down regulation on Monday, endoscratch Tuesday, hopefully AF on time with baseline scan on 9th July. Acupuncture sessions booked in, trying best to keep up high protein and drinking lots of water. Can't believe it's all happening! Those that know about the IVF keep saying how exciting it is but don't feel it at all. I'm happy that things are finally moving and even if it doesn't work, it's a step closer to the end goal. Really mix of emotions but trying to keep positive even though I haven't started the drugs yet! Have glanced at side effects but don't want to focus on them as definitely believe in the power of suggestion.

Yes Non, sounds like it's me on IVF first (assuming Monday's scan shows better news!), then you, then lil. I'm with you - I won't be excited until I see two pink lines.

I am desperately hoping that Monday's scan shows better news, that the ultrasound lady couldn't see some follicles because they were just too small (despite her understanding my situation and double checking for me!) So of course, this weekend is really dragging!