Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 7

[brownstag]

Here's the new thread, ladies.

Nice to hear from you, Ari! Are you working full- or part-time? How are things? Any sleep yet? And how is your OH taking to it all?

I seem to have ovulated about day 9 or 10 this cycle. This has never happened before. I had EWCM from day 3! Another WTF cycle (after ovulating on day 20-something last month).
Been thinking more and more about DE. It actually seems really exciting. My DH doesn't agree ...

kerry I have not been to serum in athens. But ari and duggs both did and they seemed to have nothing but praise for it.

Ari can not believe you are going back to work seems like only yesterday you were having your section.

brown what is stopping you going down the DE route? Let see if talking through it can help.

brown Get some information for your DH on epigenetics. Men seem to like facts (well, so do I :) ) and it may help? Plus emphasising that you are still carrying the baby, nourishing it, tweaking its DNA - and perhaps the blood donor analogy that I always think of; if you have donated blood, you don't think 'oh it's not my blood' once it's in your body - once it's there, it's a part of you, it IS yours. Just a thought.

I'm back to full-time, which is fine whebn I'm in the office (3 days) but not so brilliant like today when I'm WFH. I feel bad for the babies that I have to be working when no doubt they want to be played with, but there isn't much I can do about that. Had to do it with DD too, financial necessity unfortunately. Mind you she was a much easier baby then either of these two are proving to be!

lemon how are you doing now??

So have you a nanny on the three days you're in the office? What's WFH?
Lemon, the thing that is stopping me is the same spanner that is in all my fertility-treatment works - my DH! I even have the money - I think. I have definitely in the last month got past the whole genetics business. I just want a little velvety head to snuggle now. And I want to walk up the school gates with a bump that proclaims, 'Look everyone - I may be old, but I'm not barren!'
My DH wouldn't need any information as we'd be using his sperm in the unlikely event he'd ever agree to it. Assuming it's okay - it was when it tested but that's some years ago now.
How much did a DE cycle cost you, Ari? I have asked you before, sorry, but have forgotten. Of course, it's twice the price if you do a tandem cycle.
And yes, how are you Lemon?

Working from home ... durr .. Are you/were you breastfeeding?

Yes brown, we've hired a lovely lady for 3 days a week, eye-wateringly expensive and we won't be able to do it forever, but for now it was the only practical answer. There just wasn't any way we were going to be able to get the 2 babies plus us and DD out of the door by 8am every morning to get them to nursery/childminder and us to work/school.

And yes, WFH=work from home :) No, I didn't even attempt to bf after the disaster with DD; I did intend to express and hired a pump to do just that, but the reality of two of them meant there just aren't enough hours in the day to cope with expressing as well so that was that out of the window unfortunately. I feel bad about it, but reality overrode my own personal feelings.

Cost of a DE cycle is 5000 euros (which right now is about £3700) with the cost of your meds on top, and if you have embryos left over after they're 1000 eur a year to freeze which includes the cost of a FET. Honestly I couldn't recommend Serum - and their DE program - highly enough. I never went to any clinic here in the UK other than New Life/Mr S, but truthfully even had I had the money to have IVF in the UK, I would still be glad I went to Serum and would go there again like a shot if I weren't 47 and couldn't afford/don't want another baby anyway! I shouldn't suggest it, but it's more or less what I did ... what if you just put the ball in motion to start a DE cycle anyway, just do it - would your DH just put up with it as a fait accompli?

And brown - if you're anything like me, you won't feel that a DE baby is anything but yours anyway. I don't view my children as 'belonging' to me anyway, they are their own persons, but these boys are in every way as much 'mine' as my DD is, no question about it.

Hello all been trying to catch up, lost the thread for ages!!

Congratulations Sue on the birth of your baby boy, so happy for you and how lovely to have one of each!

Ari sounds like you are soo busy but I imagine it is all worth it, you must be knackered!!

Lovely to hear all going well with you Duggs, seems a long time ago you , Sue, and I were sat in the pub having a good moan about it all!

Hope your cycle sorts itself out Brown, I thought would try naturally for a bit after having everything sorted out but just don't seem to be ovulating anyway! Have quite a relaxed attitude to it all at the moment and enjoying the break, dreading getting back in the saddle so to speak!

Mel sounds like you have been having a stressful time of it, are you thinking of going down the ivf route soon? Sorry if you have already said but can't oage up to check!

Welcome to the thread Kerry, I had ivf at Newlife with Mr Gafar and I can't fault the ivf itself, I got lots of good embryos and got pregnant but miscarried between 7-8wks. The problem with them though from my point of view is they don't explore what is causing your miscarriages/ussyes enough and just blame high no cells. I went to Serum and found out I had a separate uterus and loads of adhesions so all the I f in the works wouldn't have worked! Can't recommend Serum & Penny enough, after five rounds of ivf I finally found out what was causing my problems. Unfortunately it still didn't work for U.S. on that round and Penny very much wants us to have another go but we will see later in the year.

brown do you think that he would agree if it was a mixed your own eggs and DE cycle. Not sure if serum does that or not.

Ari I am sure the twins are loving having someone look after them and it gives you the chance to have a hot drink.

sue I am very late congratulating you on the birth of your son. But congratulations I am so pleased you got there.

I am doing fine. I don't want to upset anyone so if you are feeling fragile please skip the next bit. Again I am almost 20 weeks with no treatment. I think there must be something else other than NK cells that influence this. I don't know if I just have been lucky to get another good egg. I am sorry if I have upset anyone, just I was on this board for a long time before I decided to got alone without treatment in my last pregnancy and was lucky then.

Amazing, Lemon! That's fantastic news! Of course you're not upsetting us. We need good stories like yours. Were you trying for long? And how old are you now? Sorry, I ask everyone this because of my own old-egg obsession.

And in answer to your question, yes they do do a tandem cycle although you then pay the price of both combined. And in fact I was thinking that that being the case, maybe it would be better to try my own eggs first, then DE spearately, because it can be difficult tying the two in and might end up a bit of a compromise. Also I think you can convert from OE to DE at the last minute if it's not looking good, although it depends on which donors they have cycling at the time you're ready.

I don't think that's the issue though, Lemon. It basically boils down to not really wanting another child enough to spend the money and make the effort/go through the stress. Any kind of child, adopted, OE, or DE is one too many in my husband's view, I suspect!

So to answer your question, Ari, yes I am very tempted at least to go for my appointment with Penny and then see what's what and take it from there. And take my sister as my personal nurse. I know it's selfish of me but then it's also selfish of him and it's not a thing you can compromise on really. Any recommendations for places to stay?

I wouldn't feel guilty about any choices you make to get through these first months, Ari. I always said if I were lucky enough to have another I wouldn't tie myself in knots about breastfeeding or about going back to work. In fact I would go back to work much earlier than last time for my own sanity. The boys are thriving and have all they need and that's what matters.

Pebbles, how long since you ovulated? Very frustrating. I can't bear not ovulating. The most basic requisite for ttc!

When is uour appointment with Pwnny brown?
Been using clearblue fertility monitor for 3mths! Always ovulated when used before, guess I am getting old!

Whoops I meant to say congrats to you Lemon, hope its all gone smoothly for uou.

So have you had no AF during that time, Pebbles? Maybe myoinositol would help?
I haven't actually got an appointment with Penny yet - by 'my appointment' I mean the appointment that I'm thinking of making!

www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)02300-0/abstract

www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)02294-8/abstract

www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)02352-8/abstract

Three bits of interesting research from this month's Journal of Fertility and sterility.

kerry my amh was 0.57 two years ago so no doubt its less than that now. Most clinics don't look at the amh result now apart from knowing how much to stimulate you in an ivf round so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I was with mr s for a couple of years - did two rounds of SO which resulted in chemical pregnancies. Tried ivf at the lister in 2012 but it was cancelled due to poor response. Decided to take a more holistic route and switched to zita west as was considering DE. Mr ndukwe suggested trying with my own eggs first so I then had immune treatment inc intrallipids every three months. I had one round of SO with gonal f with my little boy so not a natural conception but it worked. Still not sure if it was just a lucky egg or the 3 monthly intrallipids worked. I was in steroids from bfp rather than ovulation too.
lemon congrats on your 2nd preg - don't feel bad as I remember the positive stories kept me going.
pebbles glad to hear you are doing ok xx

brown I am 38 now and will be 39 when this one is born. But I started to have my first miscarriages when I was 34 and was 37 when my first child was born. I had 1 late miscarriage, 2 early and 1 chemical pregnancy. The chemical was the one I had when I was taking treatment, well I stopped the pred because I was not falling pregnant. Then Mr S re checked my NK cells and they had jumped from high to very high. It was then he mentioned SO and hydroxchloroquine etc. We weren't sure about going down that route and so took some time off. We thought about going to see Mr G and get a second opinion. Then I fell pregnant with my DS and took aspirin only and managed to be lucky. So I guess it was just the right egg at the right time then.

brown I would just book an appointment with Penny. From what I have read on here she tends to give a very honest opinion on your chances.Do you think your DH is just trying to protect himself from disappointment

Still have af Brown so all the pain but no gain! Have some mid cycle spotting this month as well which not had for ages! Will carry on with ov sticks this month and see what happens, they show high fertility but no ov.

Oh dear, Pebbles. But can the monitor be wrong? Does it test your temperature? I also had mid-cycle bleeding this month (which I don't usually have). Just for 2 days, 2 days after a positive ovulation stick so it must have been caused by ovulation. So maybe yours was too. Would you take something to kick start everything if it turned out you weren't ovulating?
Lemon, I had to have a sad and ironic chuckle over the idea that my DH was protecting himself from disappointment! He'd be more disappointed if it all actually worked, I think.
Very tempted, Ari, to do what you did, but I'm too much of a chicken. But I do want to go ahead with the appointment at least and see what Penny says.
I'm trying a higher-protein diet this month to try to build some good eggs. I live off carbs usually, vegan carbs at that. I've also just ordered my 5th AMH test to see whether continuing to take melatonin is worth it.

I went to the neurologist yesterday about my tremor. The good news is that it's not anything like Parkinsons. And it's not typical of benign tremor. The bad news is that she doesn't know what it is and I have to have a brain scan. She thought it looks like a hyperthyroid tremor but my thyroid function is normal. It's probably either a long-term side effect from quetiapine, or a side effect from my many supplements. She was horrified by the list and urged me to look after myself and stop taking them. She said no neurologist on earth would be able to tell me what side effects many of these things have on the body, and in combination. Her main concern was melatonin. Come to think of it, the tremor may possibly have started with melatonin, or it may have been slightly before. In that case the culprit may be DHEA.
How is everyone?
I am waiitng for AF to begin. BEFN, BFN, BFN, BFN ...

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/threeparent-embryos-an-ivf-revolution-or-a-slippery-slope-to-designer-babies-10031477.html

Morning ladies, thread's gone quiet, just wondered how everyone's doing?

Hi ari
Hope you and your babies are ok.
I took a frer last week 10dpo and bfn so stopped meds and af came Saturday v heavy with clots and pain v unusual for me.
Looked at frer Sunday and a faint line when held up
I've also had a rash for a week over upper half of body, chest, tummy and back, it's now spread to legs and a couple on my face. It's like a heat rash, abit bumpy and itchy. I went doc yest and she's given antihistimine thinking its an allergy to meds though been on them a year :/
Now I feel I should of waited abit longer and retested.. Though doc said if it was to stick it would of and not to worry about a test out of time frame but I didn't hold it to the light before..

Sorry to hear about the rash and the BFN, Mel. Weird. I'm afraid I know after last month's testing that FRER do indeed have lines when looked at after the test time. :(

Sorry to hear mel ... it's possible you've developed a reaction to the meds even after a year, as these things can build up in your system and have a cumulative effect, I think. Is it time to spend a couple of months or so clear of all meds/supplements/etc to reset your body, perhaps??

I didn't know FRER were subject to evap lines too, I thought they were safe. Or as safe as any of these things can be.

It actually feels really weird to have stepped off the carousel, if I'm honest. It's almost like I was doing it for so long that I'm finding it very hard to stop. 13 weeks after the babies were born and AF hasn't returned, a small part of me thinks I should be POAS to see what's happening with ovulation etc. It's an odd feeling after 4 years to stop monitoring and checking everything.