Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 7

[brownstag]

Here's the new thread, ladies.

Wow, Ari, I have always wondered that very thing myself, whether if I actually had another baby I would finally stop checking things.
Why don't you write a book about your journey? That way you could a) satisfy or even exorcise your ttc obsession, b) provide much-needed information and inspiration for your readers and c) pay your nanny fees.
Mel, I agree about the meds. We are continually pouring so much c**p down our necks, it can only be a good thing to have a break. I thought of the irony today, that I'm always very averse to taking paracetamol (a hangover from endometriosis days where I always liked to save painkillers for when I 'really' needed them) yet I take any old other rubbish I've read about.
I've been on a high-protein diet this month and the rolls have been falling off and it looks like ovulation is going to be bang on time.

I'd love to write a book brown, words have always been my thing, but to be honest I don't know what I'd write about! I'm not so sure I have anything worth saying that anyone would want to read.

I'm very interested in the high-protein diet you mention - even more interested in 'the rolls have been falling off' ... !! Care to share details??

It is interesting what you say about avoiding meds; I too will only take painkillers if I absolutely need them. It's a hangover from the fact that I am generally very prone to bad headaches; only Anadin Extra will touch them and even then I have to catch them in time or else even that doesn't work. So I prefer not to take anything unless and until I absolutely have to.

It didn't occur to me in the early days of miscarriages etc that supplements could have a deletorious effect as well as a positive one, yet I was reading an article a few days ago that says even what appears to be a harmless vitamin can have a wide-ranging effect on the body. I would still have taken what I did, given the research I did before taking anything, but I do wonder what effect taking multiple supplements had on my body. I prefer to take as little as possible generally - I'm slightly miffed that due to the MTHFR side of things, the haematology professor that I'm still seeing has told me to carry on taking B vitamins and folate ad infinitem so I haven't got rid of everything extra. But I am at least down to 'just' 5 tablets/capsules in the morning now, which is considerably better than I was on previously!!

The protein - well, I suddenly realised that I existed almost purely on carbohydrates. In my early days of being vegan I was very conscientious about everything, including protein. After ten years or so, I realised that despite my parents' predictions, I wasn't going to expire imminently, and so I became a bit slack all round, leading to existing almost totally on carbs in my 40s. So now I'm eating much more soya-based stuff and legumes instead of bread or pasta, and simply not feeling hungry. And each week when I've gone swimming and weighed myself, I've lost another pound. I used to be 9 stone before I had my DS; then in the days of quetiapine I went up to 11.5. Once I cut the quetiapine down, I've been about 10 and I couldn't understand why I couldn't shift the resistant midrift rolls (which I'd never had before, being a pear). Now I'm 9.5 and hoping to get rid of a bit more.
Well, I have my brain scan coming up, so we'll see what effect the multiple supplements have had on my pituitary! I know in general long-term supplementation is supposed to be an increased cancer risk. Maybe because of selenium which is easy to overdose on? My folate levels were ridiculously high when I had them tested recently so I've stopped taking it.
I'm waiting for my 5th AMH test results. To see if it's worth continuing with melatonin.
... Just write about getting from 'there' to 'here'!

Donor eggs it is then! 0.3!
They have a new system though, so you have to multiply old results by 0.75 to match this one, but either way, awful! Especially as my last was 3.8.

Hi Brown sorry about your latest AMH result, although I know a lot of places aren't paying any attention to them anymore in any case. Good luck for your brain scan. When is it? If you are rethinking the melatonin in any case, that may be the answer?

Ari good to hear from you. Hope your boys are doing well. It must be weird to suddenly get off the rollercoaster having been on it for 4 years. I can imagine I would feel the same as you in your position. Having said that, I would give anything to know that all this had been worth it and to have a DC.

So, we were about to start a mock cycle before we have our last to Frosties transferred, but I have been ill (woman flu) this week and just don't feel mentally and physically ready, so am going to postpone it by a month. I have a couple of questions.. I had my TSH level retested as it was slightly low last time I had it done in 2012. It came back as 0.39 which is within the 0.27-4.2 parameter, although from what I read 0.4 is often considered the minimum level. Do you think I need to worry? I am also a bit concerned the result may be incorrect as I had it three weeks after our failed transfer. Any thoughts? Also, the clinic in Spain want me to take 10mg of pred for my mock cycle. I can't understand why - and am eager not to take them for obvious reasons, but also because they give me cramp in my back during the night, which means I don't get any sleep. Surely I only need to take them for the actual cycle? Ari on your successful cycle did you have a neupogen wash or just the injections? Do you know the different effects each have? Sorry for all the questions. Just desperate to get it right this time.

Mel sorry to hear about the rash. How is it? Any closer to working out what caused it? I got one from my last IVIG which lasted a while.

Sorry for the me post, just looking for a bit of advice. Hope everyone else doing ok. Has gone terribly quiet on here of late. Hi to Sue too, if you are lurking.

Ah, carbs are my downfall, I just love bread. In fact I mostly exist on bread in one form or another, with a liberal helping of quorn scattered in there somewhere. I'm struggling to shift the weight I put on with the twins, which galls since I dropped all my huge amounts of baby weight I put on with DD in 4 months. Here I am 3 months after the twins, having put on my less weight than I did with DD, and although I have lost some of it I'm stubbornly stuck at 1.5 stone over my normal weight. My main problem, apart from the fact that I just love bread and all bread-related products, is that I eat on the run; I have so little time free for anything other than work or the DCs that anything I eat has to be almost instant. I'm not sure how I manage that without carbs!

Hmmm well I suppose AMH does drop rapidly the older you get - is there definitely no hope with low AMH though brown? Or would it just take too long to wait for that one 'good' egg that no doubt is still in there?

belly I think your TSH sounds absolutely perfect, to be honest; I understood less than 2 to be the best levels for fertility? Not sure why your clinic want you to take pred on a mock cycle unless they're planning to test your NK cells while you're doing the cycle? Other than that, what's the point, it has no effect on ovaries or your lining. Neupogen - I only ever did the injections, I don't believe Penny does neupogen washes anymore as I think she didn't see any real benefit of them. I'm not sure what benefit the wash is supposed to have, sorry, since I don't know anyone who's had one recently, but I do know several people who have had or are having the injections (including of course me :) ). Huge amounts of luck for both your mock cycle and then the real thing - do you do the real cycle immediately following the mock one?

Yes, the hugest luck with your cycle, Belly. I'm sorry, I know nothing about the things you've queried but it looks as if Ari has them covered. And not a me me post at all; Lord knows I witter on enough.
I had a bit of cry at your post, just thinking about all the old-timers on here and the collective hidden burden of our thwarted maternal desire. Thank heavens for MN.
... My brain scan is on 10 March, my DH's birthday! He's also got to take me to the dentist for a root canal in the morning that day, so a cracking birthday all round. And yes, no more melatonin.

ari, I recommend tofu wieners (health food shops/Waitrose). Just eat one cold as a filling snack on the run - possibly not in public as they're a bit long, bendy and phallic, not to mention greasy on the outside.
I suppose there is always hope, Ari. My DH has just reluctantly gone to ask his GP for some counselling on my advice, re. his general angry and controlling behaviour and shut-down emotions. I think we've reached a bit of a crisis point in our relationship and while on one hand he has sort of agreed to the idea of donor eggs (but not adoption), we are [I am] wondering if there's a point to creating another human being with the way we are. When I say a crisis, he was perfectly happy continuing like this, but I'm not.
Sorry, more wittering.

Oh lord brown, what a cr@ppy day you'll have on your DH's birthday, poor you! I know exactly how you feel about all us old-timers - god knows the ladies on this thread so deserve to get a break, everyone's been through so much and tried so damn hard. I still say if we all ate copious quantities of McDs, drank lots of alcohol and smoked like troopers, that we'd probably be awash in babies. Or that's how it seems to go, anyway!

So sorry you're going through the mill with your relationship too brown, that's the last thing you needed. Good that DH has agreed to getting counselling - well done you for managing to persuade him to do this. It must show him that you really do care about him enough to stick it out long enough to see if it can be improved - many women would have just said 'stuff you and your problems' and walked out, regardless. Bear in mind that if you are happy with using donor eggs, you have less time pressure on you now - Serum will keep seeing you until you're 50 I believe. So you have time for him to get himself straightened out, and I really hope he commits to this for your sake. And you're not wittering - we're here to listen and support no matter what the problem. Big hugs, hope things start getting better now!

Sorry, meant to say .. .can't abide tofu in any form I'm afraid, reminds me of eating rubber bands!

Thanks Ari. TBH, if I were 20, I would have said 'stuff you and your problems' a long time ago, but our DS, the house, the practical and financial difficulties of divorce, etc, not to mention the difficulty of ever finding another man at my age and with my fertility baggage, make it an easier solution to invest more in the relationship rather than less.
Ah yes, I forgot about you and tofu. Let me offer you this instead.

By the way, my sister who symptomatically perimenopausal last year with an AMH of 0.4 now has an AMH of 4.6 after taking various herbs. This isn't helping my determination to stop taking 'stuff'!

I understand that brown; I've thought much the same and I'm not even married! Never mind the 'difficulty of ever finding another man' .. I met my OH when I was 41. It's not impossible .. and to be honest, I was actually happy when it was just me and DD. Possibly happier, if I am frank with myself; no-one to do things you don't like, put things where you don't want them, want the telly on when you want music, etc etc. Plus no-one to disagree with how you want to bring up your child! Anyway, 'nuff said; I do understand what you're saying.

Interesting about your sister ... of course I am now curious as to what herbs she took! Is she trying for a child too - and has the increase in AMH helped?

Yes, I agree - that emotionally and practically I would be quite happy if we were on our own (although I'm sure our DS wouldn't see it that way) - it's just the financial reality of bringing up children that requires someone else in the equation. Not a romantic view of life but there you go!
Yes, my sister's position is fascinating and she's a nurse practitioner and I think she ought to write a paper on her own case study. Basically she'd been having weeks of night sweats and insomnia last year. She was on the progesterone-only pill at the time. She had blood tests which showed an FSH of 56. Then she came off the pill and had another test: FSH of 49. She was told she post-menoapusal and was pressured heavily to take HRT. She resisted and now is very glad she did.
She started taking sage for the night sweats, red clover (Promensil double strength), and 2 tablespoons of ground flaxseed/pumpkin/sesame daily. The night sweats went away wthin days and she started ovulating again. Several FSH and progesterone tests have been normal for many months and now the AMH has confirmed it.
She's not trying for a baby (although I think she'd like another but they can't afford one) but she was emotionally devastated when she thought she was menopausal.
I've just started the same concoction, minus the sage.
However, I'm not hopeful for myself. I feel there must some explanation other than the red clover, etc - otherwise surely all these women taking Promensil would start their cycles again, wouldn't they? An immune reaction? Thyroid? (She had an underactive thyroid.) Anaemia? (Was anaemic.) The pill? (But then wouldn't this be a known side effect?) I'm also anaemic possibly - never been before but my perimenopausal periods lately have been mega-heavy. I keep going to bed at 7 with my DS and waking at 5!

Actually, I have just come up with my own theory of my sister's remarkable recovery. Just before the progesterone-only pill, she had the Mirena for quite some time. I've found lots of anecdotal and a small amount of scientific evidence online to suggest that the Mirena can cause a menopause.
There is a reason for my low AMH, since endometriosis is known to age the eggs prematurely, but my sister has no such reason and our mum was 55 at menopause.
How is everyone?

It's all gone terribly quiet around here ... is everyone ok??

Yes, thanks. How are you? (I keep having a break from FB btw.)
We have actually stopped trying to conceive. And although I cried for about a week, I now feel as if a massive weight has lifted from my shoulders. It wasn't going to happen; I think I always knew but while there was a possibility, I had to try, in order not to regret it later. And now I feel it is too late and I don't need to try any more.
The donor egg route is still an option but at the moment it doesn't appeal (ha ha! now that I got my DH to agree to it). And there's no urgency anyway.
How is everyone else?

brown I am sure that was a really tough decision. I just wanted to say I know how difficult that choice can be.We started looking at adoption a couple of years ago. I know now it is probably too soon to be even thinking about it. One of my friends recently did the foster to adopt route so still got the new baby experience. It seems to be going well.

I am doing fine, other than trying to fit in all the work that work has given me. I am off next week but looks like I need to pop in today to finish some stuff off. Am seriously tempted to call it a day with my career. Just find the workload is getting more and more unmanageable and they are not able to recruit staff and we have a high turnover. That is my moan.

Hope everyone else is getting to enjoy the sun today.

Happy Easter ladies
it's been very quiet here for a while, hope you are all doing well.
no exciting news from me, going to Reprofit for the initial consultation in May see what treatment they recommend to us.
Dreading it but also looking forward to it. Going to be 40 in summer, would really love to have some sort of plan (or even better pregnant by then).

Hi ladies sorry I've been very quiet of late.. Just had to keep away I think. Hope you are all well.
My lit treatment is now out of date, last had it feb last year so felt Abit down as realise it may mean starting the whole testing process yet again. I've still been in steroids, intralipids etc but no hint of BFp in 2 years. We were supposed to be going for ivf this year but hubby got diagnosed with ankylosing spondilitus which has made me really scared as it could be passed to males and also the pills will lower sperm even more and he refuses donor.
I think I've had abit of a breakdown to be honest and I'm nearing 40 so just felt I need to restock. Hubby says its him or a baby and I just can't stop my yearning.. Does that make me selfish??
Also do any of you ladies know that If I need lit with hubby would I need it with a different partner? I assume as I have a missing receptor Id need neupogen still? Sorry for the me post I just know you are a wealth of advice thanks for listening x

Mel so darn sorry to hear what you've been going through. Re the LIT question, you may not need it with a different partner; remember it's to do with antibodies within you against your partner (or his sperm, actually :) ).

Personally I don't feel you're being selfish at all, but I do feel your DH is. Perhaps his diagnosis has got him worried, but he should be thinking how you're feeling too. It's never good to give someone a 'me or xx' ultimatum, and worse so when it's someone who supposedly loves you. I'd suggest you need to sit down with DH and have a long talk, calm if possible, to find out where his reaction has come from and for him to realise just how much this means to you - gives you a chance to find out just how much you, in turn, mean to him?

I would say - and I'm not in any way suggesting you aren't going to be doing this with DH!! - that you don't necessarily need a partner to have a baby, so don't worry about that; donor sperm is just fine, and there are several single ladies on the FF Serum forums who are going it alone (including twin mummies). So don't let that be a pressure for you.

With the missing receptor I assume that yes, you'd still need neupogen, but you'd obviously need to take advice on that from your clinic (I'm not sure if you're planning on Serum?).

nanny May's not that long away, and it's always good to have a plan!

Hope all is well with everyone else? /wave

Mel how are things going now. I completely understand the desire to have a child, and you have been strong enough to go through all of this recurrent miscarriage stuff (I was going to write a swear word there, but thought better of it). I have no doubt that if you do go down the single motherhood route you would be fine. I do agree with Ari though. Do you think the diagnosis and the strong drugs has may be got him worried how he would cope with a baby?

Nanny how are you getting on now?

Hi Ladies

I am not sure if anyone is still lurking on here as noone has posted for ages.

Mel I really hope that you are doing ok and that you are at peace with whatever decisions you have made. This journey is so very, very hard.

I thought I'd post on here, as I don't want to burst the positivity bubble that is currently on the original pred thread. We have recently had our 2nd FET in Spain which sadly resulted in a bfn. After 6 years of ttc, 7 miscarriages, 4 ERPCs, 2 rounds of IVF, 1 hysteroscopy, 1 fresh and 2 frozen donor egg cycles (all top quality embryos) I think we have come to a junction in our journey to have a family. I physically can't put my body through any more immune treatment - if I had a crystal ball and someone told me that it would work next time, I would do it like a shot, but I think that my womb must be so damaged by now and I turned 43 in April, that we will now have to pursue other routes. I was so devastated a couple of weeks ago that I wouldn't have been able to even write this, and I feel so bad for DH that my body is such a total failure. To have been through everything we have and still be childless is beyond cruel. I know you ladies will understand, I just can't believe I won't carry a baby of my own. I truly believed, as have most of the long timers on the thread, that eventually we would be lucky and we would get there, but I guess that we fall in to the percentage of people for whom it just isn't possible. DH has been ridiculously busy at work, so we haven't had a chance to properly talk about where we head next, but we are going to see the lovely fertility counsellor at ZW this week and she is amazing. The only comfort that I do feel, is that I truly think we have tried everything possible over the years to achieve our dream and that we couldn't have done anymore. I really wish you all the best in your respective journeys. You are all such a strong group of ladies who all deserve your happy ending, and I wish you all every success and every ounce of luck possible. Thank you for all the support over the years, this journey would have been so much harder to travel without you all. I will continue to lurk to offer any advice or support I can and will update you with any developments. x

Belly no one can say you haven't tried as you have been so strong to go through so much. I just wish that you can find your happy ending via another route whatever it may be. 43 was my cut off for stopping TTC as you have to try and get some normality back into your life or it takes over everything. I met up with Duggs last week and we wondered how you were getting on as hadn't heard of you for a while. I know she was looking at adoption before she had her little boy so maybe that could be something to look at?
Whatever happens I hope you are not too hard on yourself as even if you feel your body has let everyone down its not your fault so don't beat yourself up. Take care xx

Belly so sorry to hear that. It certainly eats away at you. Unfortunately my hubby and I have just separated after 23 years, he left fri. It's so scary on my own and wondering if I will ever get my happy ending. havent been able to face stopping meds yet but should, may continue intralipids every few months just so I feel like I'm doing something.. Daft I know. I still have £270 of lit blood forms in kitchen!

Thanks for your kind messages Sue and Mel, they were much appreciated. So sorry to hear your news, Mel, I hope that you are coping ok. So tough on top of the ttc struggle. I really hope you find some happiness soon, you thoroughly deserve it.

Hope you are well Sue and enjoying your little one. How is Duggs? Do you ladies all lurk elsewhere now? X