Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 6

[Arianrhod]

Part 5 here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/a1852840-Assisted-conception-after-recurrent-miscarriage-part-5

[VillageMum]

Pebbles just to second what brown said. Temporary stresses, even ones that last hours or days, are part of life and don't in my experience prevent conception. I don't even believe prolonged stress does. When DD was conceived I was having a year of chronic stress, so bad that I was having adrenaline sweats at night - if those embies are going to implant, they will!

nanny and brown thank you again for the uplift. Nanny you're right of course, blood tests are the only sure way of getting a reliable answer, but it's so hard to get anything organised at our surgery. If I'm still stumped in a few couple of days' time, though, I will try.

brown your insights are always valuable. Yes, I suppose I have been expecting the FRER line to go from faint to dark in a few days. Still can't shake the feeling that something's wrong, though. The next few days will tell. I can relate to your feeling of moving goalposts! But it does sound as if you have a strong, progressing pregnancy in there. I will be thinking of you tomorrow!

[Pebbles73]

Village I am so sorry I missed your oat about feint tests before I posted yesterday! I am so sorry you don't feel it is going anywhere but in my experience it does take quite a few days to get darker, it's a horrible time waiting.

Thanks ladies, the sensible part of my brain knows essentially it doesn't matter what I do and it it's going to implant it will and if it doesn't it's not my fault!

[suemays]

village I think you have to remember what is normal for you in early pregnancy. Some women get a strong line early on whilst others don't. I knew for me that if I didn't get a strong line by 12dpo that it would be a chemical. I'm hoping that you will be ok and that your gut feeling is wrong.

pebbles if stress stopped conceiving there wouldn't be any babies born during wars or famines etc so nothing you are doing will effect it. I think the main thing is to keep hydrated and rest as much as possible.

nanny ZW were quick in fitting me in for intrallipids - they said so long as its in the same week you get a bfp you will be fine. I waited until 9 weeks to have my first scan so that I would know for definite there was a heartbeat. In the past I have been at 7 weeks and it was too early to see anything which massively stressed me out! There are 2 nurses at ZW that i used to chat to - monique who is blonde and another younger black lady whose name I can't remember. Both were lovely!

[suemays]

brown how far gone are you now? You are right that you look at each milestone and are anxious to get passed it. Getting passed the 20 week scan was my goalpost although I think I will start to relax a bit more once its viable at 24 weeks.

[VillageMum]

Brown hope your scan goes brilliantly!

Pebbles and Sue, thank you. Sue spot on - I think the reason I'm worried is that for me, strong lines around now would be normal. The only other time I've had such faint lines was with my chemical pregnancy in April. Today the lines on FRER, Superdrug HPT and an IC are no darker (though no lighter) than over the last three days. They aren't quite squinters, but they're faint enough to give me a bad feeling. I'm now 15DPO, CD29, and AF would be due tomorrow. I caved this morning and also took a CB Digi, and to my amazement it says "pregnant 1-2 weeks". I was fully expecting it to say "not pregnant". Surely this means my hcg must be at least 25miu, which is the sensitivity of the CB Digi? So how on earth can that be producing such faint lines on the other three tests, which are 12.5miu and 10miu? This is driving me mad! Rather than carry on like this I went for an hcg blood test at our surgery this morning, with a 48 hrs repeat to follow on Wednesday. They took pity on the crazy lady!

Pebbles I hope the wait goes quickly for you... when will you test?

Sue I also felt huge relief after 24 weeks. Not long now!

Waves to all.

[swlondonnanny]

Village great about the CB digital and 1-2 weeks . Are you having your blood test at your GP? Only asking as had a long chat with my GP and was told that unless they suspect ectopic they will not do a blood test. When will you get your result?
Brown best of luck with your appointment, fingers crossed for a good scan...

[VillageMum]

nanny sadly reason tells me that it's a chemical, in spite of the CB result - I expect the bloods will confirm this. Should have the results by the end of the week. My GP's surgery also won't do a blood test to confirm pregnancy, but they did agree to do this comparative hcg since I've had so many early mcs in their care now and it's always torture. I'm just grateful. Really wishing and hoping this next cycle is the one for you!

[brownstag]

Good news about the CB digi, Village. And I'm glad your GP has been so reasonable about the blood tests.
I had my scan today and it wasn't great news. I'm absolutely sure I'm 5+6 today but there was only a sac measuring 5+2. Mr S is not prepared to write off this pregnancy yet, but I almost wish he wouldn't be so optimistic sometimes! He said if I really were 5+2 everything is looking normal; the sac is a normal shape, etc. Except I'm not 5+2. He came put with some stuff about sperm living for 3 days etc. but, well, I know.
So he wants to scan me again in a week or two. They are really booked up though and I'm going to try to get one on the NHS.
What was this old woman thinking?

[VillageMum]

brown how accurate is this early measuring? I was told by the consultant who used to measure me in early pregnancy scans that it's not absolutely reliable - and this was on a high tech Siemens scanner, not a laptop! Isn't variation by a few days acceptable? Don't get downhearted - all looks normal, including the sac - must be good, surely?

[brownstag]

Well, I know it's feasible but at the same time just know that it isn't going in the rght direction. Also this morning tests got lighter, although Mr S said that wouldn't mean anything as a sac of that size would be producing a good deal of hCG. I had a heart beat at 5+6 with my son so I suppose I'm comparing things with that.

[VillageMum]

brown I'm sure a gestational sac of 5+ weeks would be producing far more hcg than the average HPT is designed to pick up. At this stage the scan is where it's at. A millimetre either way in the measuring would give you quite a difference in gestational age. More important is the shape of the sac, etc (and once you can see a foetal pole, the size of the pole in relation to sac size, even if BOTH are smaller than dates). I would absolutely not despair. Hope you can get the next scan booked quickly. Sending you hugs. xx

[brownstag]

Thank you. And to you too. xx

[brownstag]

I'm confused now about what we even saw today, between the gestational sac and the yolk sac ...

[brownstag]

This is interesting reading, for anyone tormenting themselves in the way I am currently. It's about the variability in implantation time and size of embryo/dating of structures. In this study implantation was found to be between 9 and 20 days after ovulation and had a significant influence of crown to rump length etc. 20 days! I'd be well over my AF by then.
//file:///C:/Users/Anna/Downloads/I-O%20interval%20Mahendru.pdf

It goes on to say that late implantation can give the impression of being small for dates or structures being missing that would normally be seen when estimating dates based on last menstrual period. But reassuring though that may be, that doesn't really tally up with my earlier good Clear Blue results.
And yes, I have been up since 4.45.
How is everyone else?

[brownstag]

That link doesn't work, sorry, but this one is an abstract.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22858888]]

[VillageMum]

Oh, brown. Exactly. There is normal variation in these very early scans. Have you booked another? Can you be scanned again in a week's time? By 6+6 you would have a reliable picture of where you are... Oh I do hope (and believe! There is reason to!) that things are going to be OK. xx

CB Digi is giving me a negative this morning, and on all the other tests the line is now so faint as to be barely there. It's clearly a chemical. Not a complete shock as I was expecting this outcome... Have been advised to stop meds and wait for AF. Louise has been brilliant. Onwards to the next cycle. But I've had two chemicals now, and am just not sure what that means for the future, if anything.

[swlondonnanny]

Village I am so sorry. Loads of hugs...
Brown I know nothing about scans but have everything crossed for you for the next scan and a good heartbeat

[brownstag]

I'm really sorry to hear that, Village. I suppose in our hearts we do know what's right and what's wrong about a pregnancy.
I've had several chemicals including one before my son, so I don't think it means a deterioration in fertility if that's what you're wondering.
Do you normally use Cyclogest from ovulation? I'm just wondering if it might help if implantation is the issue, especially if you tend to implant late. A belt and braces approach.
I'm sure that egg quality issues are also revolving in your mind, as they are in mine. There is a reason why women of our age are advised to go for donor eggs, but personally I don't see the hurry. Emotionally I've still got at least a couple more miscarriages in me! Whether I have physically got what to takes to conceive again a couple more times is another matter.
I'm fairly sure this pregancy is a miscarriage. If a miracle happens, all well and good but I'm prepared for the end. I've got a phone consult today with my GP and I'll ask for a scan. I don't mind parting with £250 for good news but my national insurance contributions are quite good enough for doom and gloom.
Thinking of you today, Village, and thank you for your kind words xx

[VillageMum]

Brown, thanks for your kind words too... Yes, (putting the factor of my age aside for a moment) I'm now wondering what the odds are of having a healthy pregnancy after two chemicals, or if they can happen randomly and be followed by "good" eggs - so you've answered that for me, thank you! I've never had any before this year, so they've been crushing. It's good to hear that others have gone on to have viable pregnancies afterwards, even if that's not how it will work out for me. I certainly want to try again with my own eggs for a while and would love to believe that the chemicals in themselves don't necessarily mean a deterioration in fertility. I am wondering, though, if they have anything to do with letrozole? Or would they have happened anyway, given my age? Unfortunately there's no parallel real life control that can give me answers to that.

Enough about me. I really hope you get a scan appointment fixed today and I still hope that this pregnancy turns out to be within range!

nanny thank you... I know you know what it's like.

[VillageMum]

brown meant to say, yes, I've been taking Cyclogest for the last few cycles. Belt, braces, and suspenders too.

[Pebbles73]

brown so sorry you are worried after the scan, just try and remember that every pregnancy is different. I always thought you wouldn't see a heartbeat before 6wks anyway. I really hope all turns out to be ok for you, it's such a horrible time waiting so sending you big hugs.

village- sorry about the chemical, have had a couple myself and have gone on to get pregnant afterwards although of course they miscarried in my case. Also sending you a big hug.

How is everyone else? How are you doing Mel??

[suemays]

village sorry about the chemical - it still hurts even though you were expecting it. In 2012 I had two chemicals whilst using letrozole and was told by mr s to wait 3 cycles before TTC again. I was about to start another round of SO 3 months later but conceived naturally. That pregnancy was terminated at 22 weeks due to a development problem (nothing to do with immune treatment). I too wondered if letrozole increased the chances of a chemical as I had read that it can push out eggs that aren't viable. Don't forget lots of women have chemicals without realising and just think their periods are a few days late. I would say you can still conceive after having 2 in a row.

[brownstag]

Yes, mel, you're very quiet lately. Although to be fair you may be on another board - I've just realised I'm on the wrong one.
Monday 9.30 scan for me at EPAU.

[VillageMum]

brown, great that you have a scan in under a week.

pebbles and sue, thanks so much for the support. I know from reading this and the pred thread how much you've both been through.

sue I've been given the go-ahead to do SO again straight away this next cycle since my chemicals haven't been back-to-back. I've read different things about letrozole - both that it might improve egg quality, and that it could compromise older eggs. I don't have the medical knowledge to assess either of these claims! I'm forging on and just hoping I'm doing the right thing.

Hope everyone else is doing well.

[brownstag]

Village, when I asked Serum about that very issue, they said they would regard letrozole as low stimulation and therefore not too much to worry about it. But it is difficult. You only need one tiny error to ruin a pregnancy after all. But of my 4 pregnancies in the last year, my letrozole pregnancy got the furthest. Somehow I feel letrozole gives the egg energy. Not sure if that's relevant though if the result is the same!