Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 5

(1000 Posts)
Mel3062 Sat 14-Sep-13 19:37:59

Hope this is right ladies ...

brownstag Sat 14-Sep-13 19:50:10

Hallo all. I also made a part 2. Shall we just stick to this one?

brownstag Sat 14-Sep-13 20:02:10

Was 'Nooooo' in reply to my suggesting you did a test, or to the results of the test, or to the fact that the thread was full? smile

Mel3062 Sat 14-Sep-13 20:08:52

Ha ha no it was your suggestion!! I may of had this before af last month I can't recall, I don't feel preg and last month my cycle was 26 days so af may arrive tomorrow sad

brownstag Sat 14-Sep-13 20:51:58

If only I were as sensible. I am test-obsessed.
How did we get to part 5, btw? The previous thread didn't have a number, so I assumed it was part 1. But I only joined it part-way through, so didn't see how it started.

Mel3062 Sat 14-Sep-13 21:20:48

I just saw that prev links had been made for part 2,3,4 but could be wrong!!

Mel3062 Sat 14-Sep-13 21:21:35

I also don't like disappointment so figured I'd wait and see if af comes tomorrow sad

Arianrhod Sat 14-Sep-13 21:53:30

Bookmarking, confused by the part 5!! smile

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 03:58:45

Sorry maybe were not on part 5 then :/
4am and pain is there it's not ovary I don't think it feels too low like one side of pubic bone x

suemays Sun 15-Sep-13 08:39:05

I had the same lower ovary pain around 5-6 days after ovulation, mine were implantation pains as I got this bfp a week later. They felt like sharp stabbing pains and were on and off for one day but then stopped. I would test mel so that you can start all the meds (assuming) you are having intrallipids etc. The earlier the better!

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 09:57:37

Oh my god bfp on frer I'm shaking... Ill be emailing dr s, prof quenby and serum today oh and rmc consultant!!
Do I stop the dhea and restravatol now?
Luckily I've got clexane so can do that tonight or should I wait til I hear from rmc consultant?
I normally have hcg injections shall I up my cyclogest to 800??
Argh!! I carried 8 litres of pop last night too sad

brownstag Sun 15-Sep-13 10:01:14

Fantastic news!!!!!!! Yes, stop them. Well, I tapered the DHEA over a few days but Mr S will say stop them. Cyclogest won't hurt certainly.
Forget about the pop smile

brownstag Sun 15-Sep-13 10:03:03

When was your last pregnancy, Mel? All this seems to be proving that DHEA is ace! First Sue and now you.

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 10:11:26

I miscarried early May. It's strange as I'm not even sure if the dhea is micronised and not been on it long.
Should I continue the restravatol??
Yes I think I'll take 2 cyclogest and my heperin tonight x

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 10:14:11

Intralipids, I can't shoot down to Epsom this week so hoping Louise will let me do them here, who do I contact? Or does Louise have to contact them first??

brownstag Sun 15-Sep-13 10:42:28

I was never sure mine was micronised either but it certainly was DHEA as my boils testified. Not sure about the resveratrol. The official answer will be to stop it of course. Ari, any opinion? You could try texting Louise. She may not reply as it's the weekend but you could give it a go. Do you have her number?

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 11:01:29

Yes thanks I've made several emails!!

Arianrhod Sun 15-Sep-13 11:55:41

Woohoo mel, excellent news!! I was advised to carry on taking resveratrol when got BFP as it helps combat high NK cells and is only an antioxidant so has no ill effect on the embryo. Not sure Mr S will agree as I don't believe he agrees with taking resveratrol anyway.

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 12:01:50

Thanks ari ill stick with that and not dhea x

suemays Sun 15-Sep-13 16:59:02

Wow congrats mel I had a feeling you were!!!
I started the 2 cyclogest the evening I found out before bed and did the clexane (between 6-9pm) too. I stopped the coq10 and dhea when I found out and started the 40mg pred the next morning. I have been advised to cut back on wheat and dairy as they can increase killer cells too.

If you can get a prescription posted or emailed to you, I have the number of a midwife who can administer them at home for £100. I think you can get the prescription fulfilled at a chemist. She lives in Surrey but travels around London and the Home Counties - not sure where you live.

suemays Sun 15-Sep-13 17:01:00

I did another two tests today to give me peace of mind and the test line is now sucking the colour from the control line. Also did a cb digi and it said 2-3 so am 4-5 weeks. At least its moving in the right direction.

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 17:03:23

Sue that's kind but I'm in York! Ill start clexane and I've had a cyclogest this am! Mr s put me on 25mg steroids and
Now on restravatol and hydroxy so hope that's enough x

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 17:10:07

We dtd this am too :/

duggs1976 Sun 15-Sep-13 17:49:01

Congrats melgrin what is this restervol?

Mel3062 Sun 15-Sep-13 17:55:20

Peny told me to go on it to lower tnf alpha x

Buzzybee123 Sun 15-Sep-13 20:45:51

mel congrats on your BFP smile

sue glad things are moving in the right direction smile

Arianrhod Sun 15-Sep-13 21:16:35

It's a pretty powerful antioxidant duggs - found especially in red wine. Helps to lower both TNFa and NK cells, apparently. I've been taking it for about 2 years now.

Great news on the test sue!

suemays Mon 16-Sep-13 00:09:09

mel you might be able to use healthcare at home to see if they can do a home visit if you get the prescription.

I always tend to drink red wine rather than white when I am TTC as have heard about restervol helping to conceive. Also red fruit such as grapes are good. If the red wine in turkey had been good that's what I would have been drinking rather than vodka! There were studies in Sweden where women who were drinking red wine conceived more than those who didnt. Not sure how many but maybe they were just getting drunk and getting laid?!

suemays Mon 16-Sep-13 00:15:20

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-193417/Wine-helps-women-conceive.html

duggs1976 Mon 16-Sep-13 06:40:30

Great I love red wine.!any one know if or when you can ovulate after an ERPC? Not that I am trying yet just trying to work out possible dates?

brownstag Mon 16-Sep-13 08:25:50

Duggs, with my last ERPC, it was two months before my next period, and I did ovulate, so it must have been over 6 weeks before I did. But that's quite long, as they said to expect a period in about 6 weeks.
I love wine too, but of the white variety. However, I do eat whole boxes of grapes at a sitting, a few times a week.

Arianrhod Mon 16-Sep-13 09:13:14

duggs After both of my ERPCs I ovulated CD18, after the first ERPC I actually got pregnant before I had an AF but miscarried a week later. Second ERPC AF came on CD30 and then following cycles CD28. Everyone's different, obviously, but I would say it might be wise to track OV if you want to avoid another pregnancy straight away?

duggs1976 Mon 16-Sep-13 10:41:52

Do you all call cd1 the day of the ERPC?

Arianrhod Mon 16-Sep-13 10:57:21

I do, yes - for want of anything else to call it!

Pebbles73 Mon 16-Sep-13 13:28:48

Just managed to find new thread and wow congrats Mel!! I have been having a lot of those little stabbing pains near my right hip bone on and off.

I was unable to get Newlife to prescribe me intralipids to have done elsewhere. They advised me because it is intravenous they can't prescribe it and would have to have it done there. Having said that it it was the crisp nurse who told me I was having an ectopic or miscarriage....

Glad to hear all going well so far Sue, when are you going to have a scan?

We are thinking of not having scan at 8wks and just waiting for one at 12 if we get that far. It's all pretty stressful and have been stressed out with the ups and downs of this enough so far! I mean if there is something wrong at 8 week scan not much can do about it....
Have stopped spotting at last so hoping all is ok.

Arianrhod Mon 16-Sep-13 13:32:26

They're gits pebbles, they just want your £350! Of course they could give you a prescription, you would just take it somewhere else who could administer it for you .. for a good £200 cheaper. I hate this money-grabbing aspect of the (in)fertility business, it makes an already very bad situation even worse for most people.

Understand you not wanting the stress of an 8 week scan, although I seriously admire your strength at holding out if you don't. I don't think I could be that strong-willed, although you're absolutely right, if anything is wrong there isn't anything you could do about it anyway. All fingers crossed that nothing WILL go wrong anyway, and you just have a happy & healthy 12 week scan!

Buzzybee123 Mon 16-Sep-13 14:31:31

pebbles its bollocks, I know Gorgy gives out prescriptions for intralipids they are totally money grabbing. My fingers are crossed that all is ok for you smile

Mel3062 Mon 16-Sep-13 16:03:29

Glad alls good so far pebbles. I had a bit of a sore boob yest and a bit of high up back pain today trying hard not to spot signs !
Louise is letting me have intralipid at healthcare at home but said its not usual practice and I won't be able to do it again. Itl cost the same except hassle of travel and petrol/ trainfare.
Currently at rmc hosp getting progesterone and h cg levels done and thyroid. Been told to have 800 cyclogest and no clexane until had a scan so now worrying as I took one! Prof quenby doesn't prescribe intralipids x

Mel3062 Mon 16-Sep-13 17:12:23

On thyroxine now too. Preg test didn't really show hoping its cos of time and I'd had a wee before, guess what in buying now!! Also I did first response at home

Pebbles73 Mon 16-Sep-13 17:46:28

I wouldn't worry about one clexane Mel sure it won't harm.

brownstag Mon 16-Sep-13 17:59:47

Do you mean the pregnancy test at the hospital, Mel? If so, as ari and I were discussing a while ago, it's probably not a sensitive test they're using. My sister who works in sexual health uses 25miu and Ari said the one her hospital was sing was 30miu.

Mel3062 Mon 16-Sep-13 18:17:36

Thanks yes it was a hospital one x

Mel3062 Mon 16-Sep-13 18:36:11

First response was yesterday. I've bought a clearblue digi for tomorrow!

Mel3062 Tue 17-Sep-13 03:51:36

Umm 3.40 am just done a 10ml test and bfn and so was clearblue digi sad I'm confused sad

Mel3062 Tue 17-Sep-13 06:41:13

Faint line on 10ml one, would of thought it would be stronger just praying digi is not as sensitive. Think ill get another frer, stay on med, wait for blood result and keep fingers firmly tight!!

brownstag Tue 17-Sep-13 08:28:41

Good plan. I think the digis are less sensitive, yes. You're only 12dpo, aren't you? That was the first day I got a line that was totally unequivocal on a 10miu test; I'm sure there wouldn't have been anything to see on a less sensitive test for me at that point. Fingers crossed xxx
...Going off on a slightly different tangent, I noticed a strange phenomenon with the FRER I bought recently. Normally I throw them away (in disgust) when negative, but this one, which was negative on the day (AF arrived shortly afterwards) had a definite red line on it when I looked a couple of days later. I know you're not meant to look at them after the allotted time, but I thought that was interesting, because my NHS ones never do that. Anyone else noticed that with FRER?
Hope all well. How are you Pebbles, Buzzy and Sue?

duggs1976 Tue 17-Sep-13 08:32:31

Check out the TIMES today freelance has her article on recurrent mc in it! Well done her. Best of luck on your HCG results mel. Hope all the other pregnant folk are doing ok? I am not sure what to do next I guess try again to get pregnant and hope the hydroxy and pred and intrallipids work this time. Wasn't on hydroxy before. Come on you preggers ladies you are the inspiration.
Ari how are you doing ?

suemays Tue 17-Sep-13 08:39:10

mel I have only been testing every other day and at the same time with FMU. You sound like you have been doing the tests at different times plus with weakened wee so I am not surprised the line is inconsistent. It's hard not to panic though. I also started testing on day 26 of my cycle, not sure of my OV day.

duggs I would try the hydroxy next time. It's worked for me before and will hopefully work again this time.

pebbles I am with you on the early scans. Only prob is I don't want to waste money on intrallipids at 8 weeks if there is no viable pregnancy.

I am starting to feel a bit queasy but nothing much else to report. Have acupuncture this morning so hopefully he will tell me my pulses are good.

Pebbles73 Tue 17-Sep-13 08:59:15

Try not to worry until you get blood test results Mel as will be a better indicator.

I know what you are saying Sue as also progesterone and clexane to buy on top of intralipids....

I am feeling knackered most of the time and ready for bed by time get in from work. Also seem to look almost 3mths already from all the drugs. Have button undone on jeans with a belt over to hide it! Have days with little twinge/cramps in my right side. Hope these are all good signs 7wks+1 today.

How are you feeling Duggs & Ari?

duggs1976 Tue 17-Sep-13 09:08:33

I'm not doing too well. Even though knowing the nk cells were probably the cause of this mc (not sure if was chromosonally ok yet if at all) did give me some hope initially. Now I feel exhausted and fed up of 4 yrs of either ttc, being pg or recovering from a mc. I just wish I didn't want a child and could move on with our lives. DH isn't doing so well and I try to put on a brave face. I left my job in July as was going to have IVF and then try to get a local one not central London. Now I'm in limbo. I need a job but I am not in the best place mentally and am worried that I will go a bit doo lally. It is just time I know. But I feel like all I do is count time. Anyway you all know this only too well so guess I'm just getting it out there in black and white. I should be grateful I could even leave work even for a month or two I suppose. The distraction would be a welcome one right now. smile

brownstag Tue 17-Sep-13 09:19:39

So you're not working at all at the moment, Duggs? I find that work really helps (p-t), even though I am obsessively checking Mumsnet, doing internet searches for things that pop into my mind, etc. several times an hour! Being freelance it doesn't matter; I only get paid for what I do. But I find having some structure and some other things to get absorbed in does help; otherwise I'd be obsessing all day long instead of just a significant part of it. Can you do part-time or freelance in your line of work? Or even some voluntary work?

brownstag Tue 17-Sep-13 09:22:16

Good news, Pebbles and Sue.

duggs1976 Tue 17-Sep-13 09:29:04

Hi brown yes I can freelance (I'm in marketing) and I have applied for voluntary work as of yesterday. Totally agree with you I need to keep busy. X

brownstag Tue 17-Sep-13 09:41:19

Good idea; having something to novel to take up your attention is a good thing. Sometimes when I feel really low I decide to do a sponsored event; it's something else to think about and organise and at the end of it, you've helped some cause, even if it hasn't got you any nearer to having a baby. Although this year I thought it would be a bit churlish to ask people to sponsor me to lose the same stone they sponsored me to lose last year, and have put back on post-pregnancy/pred, so I'll have to think of something else! Interestingly, a friend of mine in Peckham has just retired and has applied to do voluntary work in various sectors. And because there are so many people unemployed, and recent graduates looking to put something on their CVs, there are actually waiting lists to do voluntary work in some fields!

duggs1976 Tue 17-Sep-13 11:01:53

Well yes it isn't as easy as I thought it would be wink it always seems to be hour by hour with me up and down rather than day to day. I have about 50 different thoughts and ideas in a day. DH says he is struggling to keep up with the constant chopping and changing this time especially.

suemays Tue 17-Sep-13 12:57:55

duggs I think the best way to look at it is that you haven't been TTC for nearly 4 years as over 2 of those were looking for the cause of the miscarriages. I would say you have been realistically trying with a good chance of pregnsncy since you had the hidden infection tests done. Then add to that the damage the steroids have done over the last few years, it has taken time for your body to heal and get back into balance. Bearing in mind it takes as average couple with no known factors to conceive in a year, you are probably not far from that. I know its frustrating as I feel the same but I still think hydroxy and Chinese medicine will help you.

suemays Tue 17-Sep-13 13:00:07

I agree to keep busy. I am finding it hard forcing myself to relax. My acupuncturist told me today that my pulses are tired so I need to try and have an afternoon nap. Lucky that I haven't got much freelance work in at the moment!

brownstag Tue 17-Sep-13 14:25:47

Well put, Sue.

suemays Tue 17-Sep-13 16:25:12

I have got my first scan booked with the Silverstar high risk pregnancy unit in Oxford on 21st October. I will be about 9.5 weeks by then. Trying to hold out until that scan unless of course I start bleeding first. I can't see the point in having a 7 wk scan as the baby can still die at 8 weeks. I have had that before where we saw a heartbeat at 8 weeks and then the baby died a few days later. Scans stress me so much and I think its not good for the baby so I would rather avoid them. So for now I will stay in denial and try to think that everything is ok.

pebbles have you decided what to do yet??

suemays Tue 17-Sep-13 16:27:49

pebbles I get progesterone, preds and hydroxy on the nhs plus don't pay for it now I am pregnant. My gp writes the prescription for me. I am going to try and get the clexane too as they have letters from mr ndukwe detailing the drugs I should be taking. I think clexane is a standard pregnancy drug so they might go for it!!

Pebbles73 Tue 17-Sep-13 21:35:35

We hear you Duggs and know exactly how you are feeling. The whole thing gets exhausting and very, very frustrating and you have to watch all your friends family etc just pop babies out like there is no tomorrow!! Work is defo a good distraction when you are ready, in the meantime some wine and and some plans to do nice things are good to have to look forward to. Sending big hugs and thinking of you.

Think we are going to risk paying out for intralipids and not have a scan, watch this space though as am sure will cave in. Just so terrified of going for scan and finding this is all over, never got this far before.... I know onviously there is a high chance I won't get much further going by everybody else's experience......

suemays Tue 17-Sep-13 21:57:12

pebbles you can't judge your pregnancy by others. This could be your time so try and stay as positive as you can. Make sure you repeat that to me when I am having a wobble! It's great you have got this far. Are you feeling sick yet?

Pebbles73 Tue 17-Sep-13 22:12:20

I hope so, surely after all these years?!

Have nit had much in way of sickness, once in car and furry for tmi but was sick in my mouth couple of evenings ago. Not been feeling quite so turned today just felt a bit weak and shaky in the afternoon. I find after I eat is slimiest like having low blood sugar. How about you?

suemays Tue 17-Sep-13 23:24:21

I am two weeks behind you but have been feeling a bit dizzy and queasy. I feel really bloated too! I really hope this works out for you!!

Pebbles73 Wed 18-Sep-13 07:15:37

Sorry for all the mistakes, b****y i phone!!

Mel3062 Wed 18-Sep-13 07:25:32

Bfn on frer sad I'm taking that's a chemical pregnancy? Never had one before I don't like it sad
Still worrying its because I took that injection :/

brownstag Wed 18-Sep-13 07:46:54

So very sorry, Mel. I wouldn't worry at all about the injection. It's nothing you've done. xxx

Mel3062 Wed 18-Sep-13 08:37:39

It's so cruel. I'm wondering what prof quenby will say I wonder if I do need cyclogest from ovulation.

Mel3062 Wed 18-Sep-13 08:38:15

HAs anyone had this on hydroxy then conceived successfully??

duggs1976 Wed 18-Sep-13 08:43:39

Sorry mel. Freelance, sue, choccy (I believe) all had chemicals on dr a programme. Sue had a few. I had one in January. Is just because we are testing so early is not considered a mc by doctors in terms of "how many you've had" or chances in future. Usually a chromosonal defect which your body just deals with. That is standard explanation. Whether the nk cells have anything to do with them we will never know but has no effect on your chances. X

duggs1976 Wed 18-Sep-13 08:43:57

Dr s I meant not dr a I phone

Mel3062 Wed 18-Sep-13 09:08:39

Thanks duggs x

Arianrhod Wed 18-Sep-13 09:36:16

So sorry mel - I'd echo what duggs has said, remember if we weren't testing so early we wouldn't even know about most of these 'chemicals', our AFs would perhaps be a few days late but you wouldn't really think much of it. Chromosomal issues are unfortunately very common, gutting though it is for us. And absolutely no way would one Clexane injection cause any problems at all - remember it's just a blood thinner, it won't have had any negative impact at all.

Pebbles73 Wed 18-Sep-13 13:36:01

Oh s**t Mel am so sorry, what did your blood test show? As Ari said the clexane wouldn't have caused an issue so don't worry about that.

suemays Wed 18-Sep-13 17:04:57

mel I am so sorry you have had a chemical. I had one in jan 2012 and then one in march 2012 and was

suemays Wed 18-Sep-13 17:09:53

On mr shehatas plan inc steroids and intrallipids but not hydroxy. I started taking it about 3 weeks before I had the 2nd chemical so I think it wasn't in my system long enough. It's hard to know if its a chromosome, implantation or immune problem when its so early. If it has to fail, its best its so early on as you can try again next month. I was put on an enforced 3 cycle break after my 2nd cp and then conceived again at the end of may.

Were you on superov as one of the fertility consultants I have seen said that if the hcg injection is taken after the egg has released it can cause damage to the developing embryo and cause implantation failure?

suemays Wed 18-Sep-13 17:14:59

Forgot to say I agree that the clexane wouldn't have caused you to lose it as its just a blood thinner and routinely used in early pregnancy. It might be that your lining was too thin so that the embryo didnt implant properly. When I had my 2 cps Louise at nlc told me that your body can gear up for pregnancy even though there is no viable embryo so in one respect your body is working properly.

Mel3062 Wed 18-Sep-13 17:48:40

Thanks ladies no wasn't on super ovulation. My hcg was 30 and progesterone was 131 so was told to stop med if another neg test and that as I test so early I may not of known otherwise but that it wasn't the injection just a "quality control"
My biopsy results are in at 48% instead of 5 so high and am talking to prof quenby tomorrow so that will be interesting.

Mel3062 Thu 19-Sep-13 06:08:43

To say I was on pred and had been on hydroxy when had the biopsy!

brownstag Thu 19-Sep-13 12:25:10

What time do you see Prof Q, Mel?

Pebbles73 Thu 19-Sep-13 13:22:51

Let us know how you are getting on Mel

Starting to worry as seem to have less symptoms, bb's have stopped hurting and don't need to wee so much. Still tired but no sickness. I guess it's normal to not feel pregnant sometimes at this early stage?? God it's all such a worry!!

Arianrhod Thu 19-Sep-13 13:31:28

pebbles It comes and goes - and remember pred often masks a lot of pregnancy symptoms. Even without pred I didn't get any 'pregnancy symptoms' at all with DD. It varies day to day, try not to worry (easier said than done, I know!).

mel how are you doing?

Pebbles73 Thu 19-Sep-13 13:59:47

Thanks Ari, I forget pred can mask symptoms. Having never even got this far or had a pregnancy without drugs I just don't know how I should feel!

brownstag Thu 19-Sep-13 14:36:48

Pebbles, I had no real symptoms other than tiredness with my DS (and indigestion from pred). Then when I weaned off them, for 2 weeks I had shocking sickness, and realised what I'd been spared with the pred. Think of it as a positive!

suemays Thu 19-Sep-13 17:10:43

pebbles funny enough I looked back on my posts here yesterday from last time I was pregnant to see if I was moaning about my symptoms as I haven't had much yet. I think mine started at 7 weeks last time and I had awful sickness and tiredness even on the pred, worse than when i was carrying dd1. They use preds for controlling morning sickness so don't be surprised not to feel anything. Some ladies never have it anyway.

I am only officially 5+1 today so too early for symptoms for me. Still worrying though especially as I did another cb digital and its still saying 2-3 wks. I was hoping it would have gone up to 3+ now but I guess its not that accurate. At least I suppose it hasn't gone back to 1-2 as I know it would be game over then!

Have you got a first scan booked yet???

suemays Thu 19-Sep-13 17:12:10

pebbles also don't be surprised to get sharp pains across your dt

suemays Thu 19-Sep-13 17:13:06

Stupid iPhone! Meant to say pains across your stomach as its the ligaments stretching. I remember being really worried but it was normal!

Mel3062 Thu 19-Sep-13 18:53:07

Aw ladies thanks for asking. I've just spoke to prof quenby who told me not to give up and she's not surprised I've had a chemical as my womb is one of the worst she's seen. She's told me to stop everything as something I've taken had made it worse. Then when I ovulate I've got to go for another biopsy (ouch) for free then shel try get my womb ok then we can start again in January. Pebbles pred does mask symptoms x

Pebbles73 Thu 19-Sep-13 19:17:58

Thanks ladies that's helped to put my mind at rest, well for about a day until the next thing worries me!!

Sue still planning on waiting until 12 wks if we get that far for next scan, booked intralipids for 30/9 when I will be 9wks. Probably think I am mad paying out for then with no scan but might be good not to have the added stress and be as 'normal' as possible. Have my 40th Birthday Sunday and a couple of weddings to go to over next couple of wks so at the mo would rather not know if anything wrong, defo going for the burying head in sand scenario!!

When will you have a scan Sue?

Good you have a plan in track Mel and good it makes you feel a little better. Will be interesting for you to see what you are taking that's making things worse.

brownstag Thu 19-Sep-13 19:48:12

Sue, it's funny you saying you were looking up your previous symptoms as I was the same, asking other people what I'd experienced when pregnant before. You'd think it would be etched in your mind forever, but some things you seem to forget.
Mel, it sounds as if you're in very capable hands. When she says your womb is one of the worst she's seen, what does she mean? In what way?

Mel3062 Thu 19-Sep-13 20:21:52

Just the level of nk cells its very high but would be impossible to pinpoint what it is that's caused it sad

Pebbles73 Thu 19-Sep-13 20:58:04

Not good just been to the toilet and had red bleeding and some light cramping, here we go again...

suemays Thu 19-Sep-13 21:07:10

Oh no pebbles try to rest up and see what happens. Don't forget its common to bleed in ivf pregnancies. From what I remember you had bleeding earlier on with this one and it then stopped? Is it bright red?

Pebbles73 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:23:45

Yes I had darker bleeding, this is very very watery and now bright red. Guess it will be off to EPU in the mirn

Pebbles73 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:24:06

morning!

suemays Thu 19-Sep-13 21:41:02

You never know it might stop by the morning. It's still not over yet xx

Mel3062 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:45:24

Fingers crossed for you pebbles xx

Mel3062 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:54:42

I just feel like I've done all I can to try make all this a success and now it's all gone worse and I have to start all over again sad

suemays Fri 20-Sep-13 07:41:14

mel that's the worst thing about miscarriages for me - having to keep starting again. Speaking from experience, the further a pregnancy gets, the harder it is to get over physically and mentally so try and think that maybe next month or the one after you might be pregnant again and in with another chance. All losses regardless of whether they are a 3 day or 3 month pregnancy still equate to the same thing, no baby so all leave you with that desperate empty feeling. If someone could tell us all that we will have a healthy baby in x amount of years then we could relax about it. Trouble is there are no guarantees even with all the drugs etc. we can only do our best so try not to beat yourself up about it as its not your fault.

pebbles how is the bleeding?

Pebbles73 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:29:31

Bleeding still the same but cramping died down, doctor is arranging for a scan with Epu so have just stayed at home with feet up.

Mel can understand you must be feeling very frustrated but you are in great hands and hopefully prof Quenby will get you sorted out.

suemays Fri 20-Sep-13 09:47:02

Glad the cramping has died down Pebbles. Really hoping its not a miscarriage for you - goes without saying.

Buzzybee123 Fri 20-Sep-13 10:20:09

pebbles sorry to hear about the bleeding when is your scan booked for

mel It is hard to start again, big hugs

Arianrhod Fri 20-Sep-13 10:54:54

pebbles Lots of luck for your scan, hopefully it's just the baby settling in, I know that can cause all kinds of pains and bleeding sometimes.

BellyD Fri 20-Sep-13 11:43:53

Thinking of you Pebbles. Good luck for your scan x

Pebbles73 Fri 20-Sep-13 11:47:52

Just been to Epu and it is a miscarriage, not much left they can see so just leaving it it to finish naturally. Haven't even cried just completely numb to the whole thing. Not really sure what to to next as just don't know what else to try!

suemays Fri 20-Sep-13 12:06:19

pebbles it has to be a chromosonal issue as its early on. Haven't you got quite a few frosties from the cycle that you could use? They do say it takes an average of 3 ivf cycles so don't give up. So sorry this has happened to you xxx

Pebbles73 Fri 20-Sep-13 12:36:36

Thanks Sue, we only have one frostie. This was out forth round if fresh ivf but if you include frozen ones to it was our sixth go. Two miscarriages, two chemicals and two negatives. It's v hard when you know you can't just try again and get orsgnancy naturally, this orsgnancy took two years after my last proper miscarriage.....

Buzzybee123 Fri 20-Sep-13 12:41:53

oh pebbles I am so sorry, big hugs x

brownstag Fri 20-Sep-13 13:02:49

I'm so sorry, Pebbles. So awful, so dreadfully unfair and exhausting.

Arianrhod Fri 20-Sep-13 13:39:22

Oh feck it pebbles, I'm so so sorry. What a bl**dy awful cr@ppy thing to happen. Huge hugs, we're here for shouting at. xx

ChoccyPud Fri 20-Sep-13 13:42:29

pebbles I'm so sorry that's shite and so unfair. Hugs x

suemays Fri 20-Sep-13 14:43:59

pebbles I wish I could say something and give you an answer. I am guessing you won't be able to have the embryo tested as you said most was gone. Would superov help you as its much cheaper than another ivf round? Like I said before, I still believe its a numbers game and its just trying to find the perfect egg. As we get older they get far and fewer between. I guess you have two options, either accept the fact that our eggs are older and this could happen again and go for donor eggs or keep trying with your own eggs. It's hard to know what to do and depends on your finances and strength to carry on.

brownstag Fri 20-Sep-13 15:10:38

Although you said that you can't try again naturally; do you have other problems that mean IVF is a must?

duggs1976 Fri 20-Sep-13 15:50:18

Oh pebbles I really am devastated to read this. So i am hearing you re what to do next.

There are a couple of factors.
1- you don't get pg naturally - have you ever been pg naturally?
2- when did you start TTC how old we're you?
3 - are you sure there are no issues with DH ( has this been proven has he had sperm DNA test?)
4 - if DH ok then would assume the issue is either your eggs or your uterus?
5 - if your eggs then an egg donor seems like a good option from serum or the checz place for £5k like buzzy.
6 - if your eggs not an issue (I kind of think because you started trying so early in your early 30's I believe ?) then perhaps is a uterus issue.
7 - if uterus issue and immune treatment hasn't worked then obvious option is to try again. But if you can't get pg naturally then that kind of points to more than just nk cells and is expensive and traumatic to keep trying.... So....
8 - does that lead to a surrogate?

If you put your embryo back into a proven surrogate and it fails it does suggest the sperm or the egg are to blame. If money was endless I would try all 3 options as a process of elimination.

But where to draw the line.

I do think the nk cells lifeline can be cruel at times because maybe some of us have more issues.

I know you wont know and I am echoing the thoughts and feelings I've had these last 2 weeks.
I have started the adoption process as I am not sure if nk cells is only my issue. However, I would like to think I would try egg donor or surrogacy ... Probably the latter as I have had some good eggs proven after last ivf round last march.
Lots to think about and you will change your mind a thousand times over the coming weeks. If you would like to meet up at all let me know. Huge hugs. Get some wine and Lindt Dior chocolates and numb yourself for a few days honey winethanks I am so very sorry.sadhmm

Mel3062 Fri 20-Sep-13 16:12:24

Pebbles I wish I could hug you I am so devestated for you. What a god damn crap werk!!! When will our luck change... Xx

lemonsherbet Fri 20-Sep-13 21:28:03

Just wanted to say how sorry I am pebbles. There is nothing I can add that has not been said.

Mel sorry to hear about the chemical. I had one on Mr S plan. It was the month where I took a break from the pred

Arianrhod Fri 20-Sep-13 22:30:26

pebbles I was just reading my usual Fertility Friends forum when I read one lady describing her IVF journey and she's had very similar to you. They had more testing done and it turns out her DH has a balanced translocation, which is what has been causing all her BFNs, chemicals and miscarriages. Obviously may not be your issue but I just wondered if your DH has been tested at all? Hugs to you, take care of yourself.

Pebbles73 Sat 21-Sep-13 15:02:53

Thanks for all your kind words ladies and will answer properly another time. Just have a quick question, I passed some products today for want if a better word and wondered if anyone had done that and kept it to get tested?? Sorry is bit of a grim question and not the nicest start to my 40th birthday weekend!!

brownstag Sat 21-Sep-13 15:11:07

Yes, I did. I passed a rubbery grape-like lump several weeks after an ERPC and got it tested, although that was slightly different as they just wanted to check it was retained products and not something else. But you need to get it to them asap so I would ring EPU to ask what to do. Put it in a sterile pot and in the fridge for now I would say.

Pebbles73 Sat 21-Sep-13 15:59:55

Thanks Brown that's exactly what I have passed. Thanks for the info, did they manage to find anything out from it?

brownstag Sat 21-Sep-13 16:15:02

They just confirmed it was retained products, chorionic something or other, I think they called it, so part of the placenta. There was no talk of having it tested for chromosomal abnormalities at this point as this was my first miscarriage. We had seen it dangling there on a scan and they weren't sure if it was a polyp or retained products; I'd had continuous bleeding ever since the ERPC (I had it done twice for the same miscarriage and there was still this thing left behind!) Very odd sensation as it came out; I'd had cramping and then 20 mins later it just slipped out! I remember taking it in a pot to my GP's but I can't remember whether I left it there or whether we had to take it to the EPU.

BellyD Sat 21-Sep-13 16:20:29

Pebbles so very sorry to hear your news, and what cra**y timing to, on your birthday. I was so hopeful for you, as you had seen the heartbeat. Thinking of you xxx

Mel sorry for your chemical too, it sucks.

duggs1976 Mon 23-Sep-13 09:31:18

How are you feeling this morning pebbles? Are you going back to work this week? Were you taking hydroxy with this cycle pebbles ?? I'm thinking of you because I know how hard a miscarriage is but one after an IVF round seems that much more cruel as you've gone through so much to get so far. I have heard the government has launched first 4 adoption the new process which is in two parts. First part 2 mths to get understanding of process and assessed and second part 4 mths for training and complete approval process. Wish I didn't want to be a parent wish I could get a puppy and not want to know what it might feel like to ever give birth. If someone could just tell me it will never happen then at least I could move on with the adoption process.

brownstag Mon 23-Sep-13 10:07:54

Duggs, big hugs. xx
Presumably you're not allowed to be trying to conceive if you go ahead and start the adoption process?

duggs1976 Mon 23-Sep-13 10:26:17

No officially not. TBH I shouldn't really be re starting it as so much is up in the air. I just wonder when to draw the line. How are you doing brown anyway?

brownstag Mon 23-Sep-13 10:55:03

I have heard of so many people who do get pregnant once they start the adoption process and take their mind off it. With my friend's sister it genuinely was accidental as they really believed they were totally infertile. I'm fine, thanks. 5dpo and filled with that irrational hope once more that this month it might be THE month!

duggs1976 Mon 23-Sep-13 11:00:39

It might well be. Surrogacy is another avenue I need to look into. Anyone know much about it?

Arianrhod Mon 23-Sep-13 11:44:19

Morning ladies .. pebbles, how are you doing? And duggs well done you for thinking ahead, even when in the middle of all this cr@p.

Ladies, I thought this might interest you, or some of you anyway. I was talking with Penny about What We Are Doing Next, and discussing the problem of my overactive immune system. Even on the 10mg pred she had me taking recently to prepare for a next cycle, I still have itchy psoriasis and joint pains. She suggested I email John Bowen (you all know about him, right?) and ask him if he had any suggestions for any Chinese herbs that might help. He responded with this:

<quote>
We have a herbal treatment called Sairei-to which is extremely effective in suppressing overactive immune systems. You can read more about it on our website at: http://www.herbalassistance.com/ Actually it is one of the few traditional Oriental herbal remedies that is also backed up by modern, scientific test data (see website info). We get quite a lot of demand for it as immune issues are common in the field of infertility.

I would recommend the following course and dosage for you to start off with.

Sairei-to:. A two month (60 day) course with the first 30 days timed to end at the time of your egg transfer if you are using donor eggs or at the time of your egg collection/ovulation if you are not. This would be followed immediately by the next 30 day course. The dosage is 3 capsules at 3 times per day (9 capsules per day) for the full 60 day course. The cost of Sairei-to is 60 Euros for a 1 month supply so the total cost would be 120 Euros for the 2 month course.

Should you have a successful implantation I would then recommend that you continue on with it for at lease around another 4 months or so, as from what you have told me I feel that your NK cells would carry out recurring attacks on the embryo if not kept in check.
</quote>

Now, this stuff isn't cheap - god knows the last thing I need is MORE expense! - but I do know lots of ladies have had successful cycles after taking John Bowen's herbs. I'm minded to give it a go, and see what happens.

Just thought I'd run this all by you, in case anyone else is interested in the weird and wacky things to calm down one's out-of-control immune system!

/waves to all

Arianrhod Mon 23-Sep-13 11:46:17

duggs our posts crossed. Sorry I don't know anything about the surrogacy option, hopefully someone else does. brown You never know, this COULD be the month! Crossing fingers for you!

duggs1976 Mon 23-Sep-13 11:51:15

John Bowen ?.isnt he the guy from bullseye the darts programme from the 80's? wink or is that him Bowen? Right I'm off to research him. V interesting. Thanks ari.

suemays Mon 23-Sep-13 13:10:47

That was Jim Bowen from bullseye! I think he is dead now too! duggs I think adoption is a great idea as there is nothing stopping you TTC at the same time, just lie.

Arianrhod Mon 23-Sep-13 13:18:17

LOL! You get nothing for two in a bed ... well how true is that in some of our cases right now! smile I'd echo sue's comment duggs - nothing to stop you having recreational fun whilst going through the adoption process, and IF it should just so happen said recreational fun produces a baby, well so much the better! smile

brownstag Mon 23-Sep-13 15:29:56

Ha ha! Jim Bowen isn't (quite) dead; he was on The Big Fat Quiz of the Year the other night, but seemed a bit doddery. How come I'd never heard of this stuff, Sairei-to? You are a wonderful mine of information, Ari. And I'm going to give this info to one of the mum's at my DS's new school I've become friends with. She has horrendous arthritis and her drug regime is preventing her from being able to try to conceive.
As to surrogacy, all I know is that you're best to go through the proper channels (you don't want another Coronation Street episode) as outlined on the surrogacyuk.org and surrogacy.org websites. I don't know of anyone personally who does it for the general public (I'd be inviting myself to tea daily if I did), although I know someone who carried a baby for her brother and his wife (his sperm/donor egg). She also had high natural killer cells so had to have all the usual treatment for it during pregnancy; it was an awful pregnancy, and she basically hid away for months. Most people don't even know she was pregnant. You don't have any frosties, do you Duggs, from when you did IVF?

duggs1976 Mon 23-Sep-13 17:25:48

No brown no frosties I put one back last September and it failed hmm Thanks for the info. I so want to be pregnant and I so dread the thought of it a surrogate seems more and more appealing. Just need to research more.

Mel3062 Mon 23-Sep-13 18:03:28

The herbs are interesting thanks, maybe I best ask prof quenby as daren't take Anything at the mo :/ bleeding now sad

Arianrhod Tue 24-Sep-13 12:31:24

Well brown I can't really take the credit for this one - Penny suggested I should talk with John to see what he recommends, and this is what he said. I know quite a few FF ladies take herbs on John's suggestion, and I know they have had some surprising results - I already knew about his mycology supplements (various mushroom extracts for various conditions) but this was a new one on me. It's not cheap - these things never are, are they?! - but I think it's got to be worth a go. Penny seems to think highly of John and his herbs, so I'll see what happens.

duggs Do you know what has triggered your high NK cell activation this time? I don't remember, did you and DH ever get tested for DQ alpha/HLA matches? It's just that if that is an issue, then using a surrogate won't help if it's still your eggs and your DH's sperm. Just a thought, I'm sure you've already considered this! I'm sure you've spoken to everyone under the sun, but had you considered running your whole history past Penny and seeing what she thinks? You don't have to necessarily cycle with Serum, Penny will still give you advice anyway, she did for me back when I was just investigating the infection screening. Just another thought. smile

pebbles How are you doing?

Arianrhod Tue 24-Sep-13 12:33:02

Bugger, hit Post too soon ... mel just wanted to send you hugs too.

duggs1976 Tue 24-Sep-13 16:30:05

Thanks Ari! I did have the DQ alpha etc done last summer with dr Gorgy. All clear there. I am not sure. I was having acupuncture, Chinese herbs and being v relaxed so immune system all strong I expect? I did think about talking to penny. I am currently waiting to see if the chromosonal tests pick up anything and then back to dr Shehata because I want the hydroxy as is only thing I have tried properly that others have had success on. Feeling more positive today. Going to check out the surrogacy link and we are thinking of getting a chocolate Labrador puppy x not sure how my two cats would feel so just researching. How are you sue and choccy and pebbles too ? Breezy and buzzy preggers. What about you ari how are you feeling about what to do next ?

Pebbles73 Tue 24-Sep-13 20:21:25

Sorry been a bit awol, needed to enjoy my 40th weekend without thinking of trying to get pregnant, having treatment or miscarrying! Had such a lovely weekend and dh spoilt me but back to earth and work with a bang today. Feeling v grumpy and cheesed off with life!!

In answer to some if your questions sue I did super ov for six months and not even a hint of a bfp, oh apart from a faulty pregnancy test!

Brown I have never managed to get pregnant naturally in ten years only through ivf. I thought it was due to high no cells, tnf alpha and pcos as no other problems found but obviously there must other things going on. Nobody really knows why have never achieved a natural pregnancy.....

Duggs I started ttc at 29, dh has had standard tests done and were fine so if we are to have more ivf will have to try the fragmentation test.
We seem to be in a similar boat and think you are brave looking into adoption, I just don't know if it is for me or I just can't face the fact I can't have children. My plan us to see Mr Gafar to discuss this cycle and ask if it is worth trying hydroxy and 40mg pred instead of 25mg and then using our frostie. I think after that I would consider donor egg, surrogacy would be good but from what I can see it is v, v expensive!

Ari had never heard of balanced translocation so looking into that, thanks.

Duggs I am hearing you re the wanting to give birth thing , it's hard to give up trying to do it yourself. The whole thing just makes you want to scream!! Sounds like you are busy looking at all your options.

We'll I guess I will see what Mr Gafar can suggest for trying next but this cycle has knocked me for six as I pretty much had everything and still didn't work. Apologies for the large post and sounding so miserable. Hope everyone else is doing ok.x

duggs1976 Tue 24-Sep-13 20:39:02

Sounds sensible pebbles. I think if you try frostie and if that fails, get DH sperm fragmentation test done ( saw new life now do this too ) and then if that comes back ok then go for egg donor in serum (I guess?) with immunes.

I think we are going to try gonal F super ov for 3 cycles then my nhs ivf should be due again (delayed because of mc). We've gotten pregnant 5 times naturally - a heartbeat twice , a fetal pole and no heartbeat, a blighted ovum and a chemical and then we had the chemical / failed ivf cycle 18 mths ago. One was a trisomy. We did have bad sperm for 4 of these pregnancies. It looks like v high killer cells for the last 2 hmm

If all that fails then not sure as not sure donor eggs would be our solution ... Surrogacy would make more sense for us I think. Still looking into it.....

Pebbles well done for getting on with your birthday and if you want to chat we are here. thanks

Pebbles73 Tue 24-Sep-13 21:06:38

God you have been through it Duggs, I am also worried that donor egg wouldn't be the answer and that I would just kill that off to.

Sounds like a good plan and hopefully you won't need the ivf.

Hope this miscarriage doesn't last too long so I can get in with frozen cycle. Mind you only one embryo so no guarantee it will survive the thawing process.

suemays Wed 25-Sep-13 08:27:51

pebbles if you are throwing everything at the frostie, try acupuncture too. You will need to start before the process starts. Glad you ladies have a plan in place as I think it helps.
Feeling a bit tearful today as its a year anniversary of giving birth to scarlet. Will be lighting my candle tonight. Can't believe a whole year has gone.

Pebbles73 Wed 25-Sep-13 08:40:08

Will be thinking of you Sue, can't imagine how that must feel. Sending you hugs.

I have done accupuncture before and it did nothing for me, tried it for eczema and ivf! In fact it was the one time I didn't get a bfp with ivf. Also in top if everything else I just can't afford it at the moment.

Buzzybee123 Wed 25-Sep-13 08:53:57

sue thinking of you thanks

Arianrhod Wed 25-Sep-13 09:48:00

Sue thinking of you today thanks

duggs1976 Wed 25-Sep-13 10:26:01

Big hug sue you've done so well to come this far x

Pebbles 10 yrs ttc is no mean feat honey. If only we knew what to do for the best. Were you on hydroxy ? Have you had nk cells retested for £230 as it might indicate they were higher and then try 4mg next time?

duggs1976 Wed 25-Sep-13 10:26:24

40mg

ChoccyPud Wed 25-Sep-13 12:58:06

Sue I can't believe it's been a year. I hope today passes as peacefully as it can for you and dh xx

suemays Wed 25-Sep-13 13:11:00

Thanks ladies, you were a massive support to me back then and still continue to be!

Pebbles73 Wed 25-Sep-13 13:43:51

No Duggs but seeing Mr Gafar on the 7th and asking if I can go on hydroxy and try 40mg pred next time anyway as don't fancy paying out for another test.

Mel3062 Wed 25-Sep-13 19:05:30

Sue hugs.
Louise said nk cells usually stay the same for a year but mine were done over a year ago and 1 mc and chemical later of course I could always pay out another £210 to see mr s...
I think after this biopsy wel see mr gorgy to cover all bases and see what he makes of it all.
Thinking of you all x

suemays Wed 25-Sep-13 19:08:27

pebbles how about having intrallipids before - have you tried that before an ivf round? I remember Louise at nlc telling me it worked with some ladies who couldn't conceive as the nk cells stopped implantation.

BellyD Wed 25-Sep-13 22:40:03

Thinking of you today Sue - I can't believe it has been a year.

Arianrhod Thu 26-Sep-13 08:29:17

Serum always does IL 7-10 days before ET and on ET as well, if that's of any interest. It's such a minefield, knowing what to do for the best.

Pebbles73 Thu 26-Sep-13 08:57:00

Thanks lafies but yes I had intralipids three days before egg collection and then again at bfp.

Really feeling quite depressed about the whole thing at the mo, how is everyone else feeling?

lemonsherbet Thu 26-Sep-13 09:51:31

mel I am surprised louise said that. I had high nk cells initially. Anyway I had them retested 8-9 months later and they were then very high and right at the top of what mr s sees. If you want I can try and find the results and post them for you.

duggs i had started to look at surrogacy. there are 2 main agencies in the uk. It is very expensive though. There are other expenses such has a parental order afterwards. Like all these things it was cheaper abroad but I am not sure if you would consider that.

pebbles sorry you are feeling low. I think it is only natural. Hope you got to enjoy your birthday

duggs1976 Fri 27-Sep-13 08:43:17

Lemon when they went very high what did dr s prescribe ?

duggs1976 Fri 27-Sep-13 08:47:55

Oh and btw pebbles depressed too at wedding in new forest got food poisoning at hen spa party on Wednesday from fish, was supposed to be 12 weeks and brides sister 10 wks pg glowing like the sun. Seeing old friends looking at us wondering what we've been doing for past 4 and a bit yrs or pitying us... Snuck off when evening guests arrived and went to bed in hotel at 8.30pm rock n roll. Can't be arsed with it all. Change the record someone confusedps if you want to meet up and get some of my sunshine and positivity just shout !

lemonsherbet Fri 27-Sep-13 09:19:58

duggs that was when he said increase pred, take hydroxychloroquine, have intralipids on BFP and 4x in preg and do SO. But obviously we did not do that. It was that consultation that made us push for an NHS referral. He did not seem to understand why I was upset at that appointment and suggested I stopped discussing my condition with other people. When I mentioned that people had said that the pred could stop ovulation. The fact that whilst I had been taking it I had only had one BFP and that was a chemical where previously I could get pregnant fairly easily. What I found interesting was that Mel NK went up on treatment and prof q said to stop to see what the baseline is. That her body is reacting to something in the cocktail.

Pebbles73 Fri 27-Sep-13 13:32:31

Oh Duggs. you poor thing as if you haven't enough to deal with!! We could cheer each other up with out joyful selves or just have a good cry together?!

Well miscarriage has suddenly gone up a gear and have had terrible cramp for two days and back to bright red bleeding! Think wedding us going to be a long day and no doubt the bride will be pregnant in a few weeks as I know she wants to start for a family straight away...

lemonsherbet Fri 27-Sep-13 13:57:35

I know and hate those grooms speeches where it is like oh and we are also pregnant. Everyone else just makes it seem so easy. But I console myself with the fact that you don't know what struggles they have had. Big hugs to you pebbles and duggs

Mel3062 Fri 27-Sep-13 16:26:20

Thanks lemon I really don't know what to think obviously I didn't have my uterine cells tested before so only have them now and the blood ones from April 2012 so I think the uterine ones are the ones to go with. I would of stuck to high pred and hydroxy otherwise but this has scared me to death. It may be the dhea or restravatol that's done it who knows!
Pebbles and duggs hugs x

duggs1976 Thu 03-Oct-13 12:20:18

Hello ladies... Where is everyone? Very quiet on here.
Any updates from anyone?
I'm still waiting on AF after ERPC 3 weeks ago so nothing much happening. How is pebbles?

Pebbles73 Thu 03-Oct-13 13:18:43

Hey Duggs is certainly v quite! Had awful cramping early last sat and thought would have to miss wedding and go to A&E but it calmed down. Still bkeeding but finished steriods yesterday, hooray! Feeling pretty fed up though, how are you feeling?x

Arianrhod Thu 03-Oct-13 14:19:08

Bizarre, I just logged in here to ask the same thing, it's v quiet, hope everyone's ok?

suemays Fri 04-Oct-13 10:34:10

Hi all, think I have got a gastric bug so worried about the effect on the pregnancy. Trust me to catch something at a critical point!! How's everyone else??

Arianrhod Fri 04-Oct-13 11:29:04

Oh lord, poor you sue ... are you having probiotics to help settle it down? It shouldn't have any effect on your pregnancy, I would hope, but it may make you feel rubbish for a while sad

suemays Fri 04-Oct-13 13:33:11

No just trying to stay hydrated and eat plain food! Dont want to take probiotics as again have read they can increase killer cells. If I wasn't pregnant it would be a different matter!!

Arianrhod Fri 04-Oct-13 14:18:59

Oh crikey, can they? I didn't know that one!!! <mental note to strike the probiotics off the list!>

Mel3062 Fri 04-Oct-13 17:55:09

Hi all I know first royal jelly now probiotics :/ I though all that was good :/
Sorry to hear that pebbles sad
Sue hope your ok, I've just had awful tummy bug lasting a week. It was like flu with sickness and diarrhoea. Apparently it's a good sign being ill when pregnant.hubby has it now along with kidney stones.
Duggs sorry to hear your news about ds.
My Daughter has now left for uni so big case of empty nest, it wasn't ment to be like this sad
I'm waiting to ovulate then getting biopsy redone. Just don't know if to get mine and hubby's bloods tested with mr gorgy too what do you reckon ladies??

swlondonnanny Fri 04-Oct-13 20:09:51

Hi everyone,
Hope I can join you?
Have been following your thread for a while but never got to posting.
Find you all amazing with all you knowledge and support.
It will be 3 years in december since we started TTC, had 9 chemical / early pregnancy losses in that time - that is up till february and no BFP since than! After getting pregnant in no longer than 3 cycles every single time I am panicking quite a bit now.
Had all the NHS tests done, was put on aspirin, cyclogest and fragmin injections and possibly prednisolone from BFP - no idea if that is going to work as haven't been pregnant since than.
Also had uterine biopsy done a few weeks ago in Coventry - had quite an unpleasant surprise when I was told during the scan that I have a possible polyp and need hysteroscopy and also heartshaped uterus!!! which noone noticed so far on all the scans I had done in past.
Scared myself properly when I googled it , took me a couple of weeks to calm down.
Got the uterineNKCells results today and they are 8,89% which seems to be only a bit higher that normal ( up to 5%). Somehow feel more optimistic about the whole TTC business again.
Decided to have my tubes tested again ( thinking of HyCoSy) and also my DH sperm DNA fragmentation.
Was looking at few clinics online and think Newlife in Epsom is the one we'll go with - anyone goes there/ finds them good?
Oh and we are both 38 and have no children so far

duggs1976 Fri 04-Oct-13 21:07:00

Hello swlondonanny I think I met you a few years ago or maybe last year at south bank meet up is that so?

swlondonnanny Fri 04-Oct-13 21:32:57

Hi Duggs,
Yes last year at south bank, was really good to actually meet real people in real life with similar problems. Made me realise that there is a problem, actually.

duggs1976 Fri 04-Oct-13 21:55:37

Did we get the train back together? I think so... You met brown stag too then....

swlondonnanny Fri 04-Oct-13 22:16:38

Yes that is me. And here we are, one year and a few miscarriages later, still no baby, trying to figure out what to do and how to make our bodies work the way there are meant to work, hey?
Having all the tests done, deciding which protocol to follow as they do contradict each other, which supplements are the best, which acupuncturist is specializing in fertility and recurrent loss - all this while pretending at work and with friends that we are having time of our life and making sure there will be enough money after all the test and vitamins to pay the rent!
Sometimes I wonder how long to carry on like this...
Actually friends who know about all this started to have dreams about me having a baby!!! Crazy, isn't it?

brownstag Sat 05-Oct-13 09:04:44

Good to hear from you, SWLondonnanny. Sorry I hadn't replied to your text about the NK cells yet; mad rush all the time until DS goes full-time at school. Your results sound very encouraging; you've been given a concrete reason and yet one that is presumably eminently treatable. And yes, here we all are a year on, still no babies. What was the other blonde lady called, who had had IVF? You met my friend LJ71 too; they've given up trying now (though they have 4 children between them already).
Talking of dreams, I had a weird one last night, that I actually had a secret child stashed away somewhere (who looked identical to my sister's daughter) that I'd forgotten about. And I said to my mum, 'I've forgotten her name even; and all this time I've been trying to conceive and I didn't need to!' Then I woke up and remembered that I very much did. Sigh.
Sorry about your DD's condition, Ari. The whole business of having children is one anxiety to the next. But I think it's great that she was diagnosed so easily; you'd think those initial symptoms could have been easily mistaken for something more mundane.

lemonsherbet Sat 05-Oct-13 13:30:25

Hi SWlondonnanny think it all depends on what you have wrong on who to go to. I know some of the ladies started off at new life clinic but then have gone to see dr gorgy and had additional tests done that then show additional problems. Unfortunately it is a bit of a lottery, if you try with NLC and hope that it is just NK cells. Welcome to the thread and one of the most amazing bunch of women you could ever meet (I am talking about the others not myself)

Hope everyone is doing OK.

BellyD Sun 06-Oct-13 20:05:24

Hi all - has been so quiet on here lately.

Ari so sorry to hear about your DS, hope she is doing ok. I think you definitely made the right decision to postpone your trip to Greece for a little while.

I start second round of ivf tomorrow, but am just finishing antibiotics for cystitis which have now given me thrush - sorry for tmi, just not feeling in optimum health going in to this. On the plus side I had a cold for the first time in ages last week so perhaps the killer cells are under control. Think this may be the last roll of the dice for us before moving on to other options. Hoping for a miracle (as always!)

Duggs and Pebbles hope you are both getting on ok.

Waves to everyone else

duggs1976 Sun 06-Oct-13 20:41:13

Hey belly D where are you having the IVF? Best of luck to you. Breezy thank you for the info v useful.
I'm ok. Thinking about next IVF round hmm really don't want to even go there but just want to experience motherhood even just once so have no choice. Good luck sue and team dozie x

swlondonnanny Mon 07-Oct-13 09:47:42

Thank you lemonsherbet , I am really just looking for sperm tests for DH and hycosy for myself. We went to see Dr Gorgy back in May but found the amount of test he suggested too much. Also the doctor we saw at NHS RMC and my DH really liked works privately from NLC so maybe we'll just go there.
And yes you are all amazing women smile and thank you for the welcome.
brownstag yes remember your friend LJ71, kind of envy them being able to stop with TTC. Also remember the blond lady who was having IVF but can't remember her name - wonder how she is doing.
During my appointment for the uterine biopsy I was told if I don't get pregnant in next 6 months I should start the IVF. Well not exactly what I wanted to hear....

suemays Mon 07-Oct-13 14:47:37

Not great news from me as only measuring at 6+2. They thought they could initially see a heartbeat but then couldnt find it when they tried to do the measurements. So I was told it was inconclusive and to go back next Monday. Very worried as my missed miscarriage started this way - was measuring behind for the dates. George did say that as I don't know when I ovulated it might still be ok but I'm not too hopeful. I am so used to bad news!

Arianrhod Mon 07-Oct-13 15:03:35

Said it on the other thread but big hugs sue, and crossing fingers that all is well at the next scan next Monday.

Arianrhod Mon 07-Oct-13 15:04:47

Sorry, also meant to say welcome (or welcome back :-) ) swlondonnanny.

Mel3062 Mon 07-Oct-13 18:15:46

Aw sue fingers crossed for you x

Pebbles73 Mon 07-Oct-13 22:27:34

Sue so sorry to hear about your scan and will be hoping for you it is just a case of wrong dates. Big hugs.

Hope you are feeling better Mel

Welcome to swlondonnanny, I have been at NLC for over a year and recently had ivf with them and have been really happy with them .

Sorry to hear something is wrong with your dd *Ari, what happened??

Belly wishing you lots and lots of luck with your ivf, fingers crossed!!

Duggs will you be doing your ivf on the nhs?

I saw Mr G today for follow up consultation, we have one frostie to try with which is a good grade blast. He has put me on hydroxy( yay!!) and once I have had one af we can start frozen cycle treatment. Will be doing it naturally and they time putting embryo back with ovulation. Just need this mc to hurry up and finish now!
I asked about further testing but he said he wouldn't advise to do it as most things have the same treatment anyway. We don't really have the money for it anyway!Think if frozen cycle doesnt work we may give donor eggs a try.

Where do you ladies who take hydroxy find it is the cheapest? Have had a google but couldn't find any prices.

Mel3062 Tue 08-Oct-13 02:02:16

Sorry pebbles got mine from mr s. good luck hun.
I'm gettng better thanks so is hubby it was pretty rubbish!
Going for repeat biopsy on Monday so hope there's a change without 3 weeks of meds. Going to see mr gorgy in 3 weeks too so that will be interesting. Might as well rule out what we can but think my uterus has been the prob!Hope my results are fastest than 6 weeks this time awful ovulating and not being able to act but must get this uterus sorted or itd be a death sentence sad waves to All x

swlondonnanny Tue 08-Oct-13 08:03:12

Mel good luck with the next biopsy results, hopefully they will be much better. Can I ask if the last biopsy affected the time of the ovulation in the cycle straight aftewards? I normally ovulate day 14 - 16, now on day 16 and still no positive OPK nor EWCM! Also for some reason I got the results in 2 weeks time ( so am now worried they sent me someone elses, didn't do it properly etc...)
Pebbles thank you for your info obout NLC, sorry about your miscarriage and good luck with hydroxy. Who do you normally see at NLC? Is it Mr G?
Sue sorry about your scan yesterday, it must be quite impossible not to worry especially if it is the stage when you are used to things going wrong. Hopefully next weeks scan will be perfect.
Ari hope your DD is better now? Also did you say you have psoriasis? If yes are you on hydroxy? I was diagnosed with psoriasis a few months ago and was told I can't have hydroxy anymore ? As it can cause loads of problems for people with psoriasis? Did you ever hear anything like that?

Arianrhod Tue 08-Oct-13 10:04:22

pebbles Sounding hopeful for your next cycle, I love it when there's a definite plan.

nanny My DD isn't going to be better for a long time, unfortunately, but thanks for asking. Yes I have psoriasis and eczema, and yes I was on hydroxy but it wasn't enough unfortunately - but as well as having an overactive immune system I have DQa problems which rockets my immune attack even higher, and it looks like pretty much no combination of meds however strong (I've been on stronger than hydroxy this last cycle) will overcome. I was never told that hydroxy causes problems for people with psoriasis - unless Mr S forgot I had psoriasis, but he shouldn't have done as that is the main evidence of my autoimmune issues (I have both nail and skin psoriasis). Has Mr S told you this? Bear in mind though that I think I was only the second person Mr S put on hydroxy after free, so perhaps it wasn't known then? I don't know.

pebbles Long story about DD, don't want to bore everyone silly but the short version is that she was diagnosed last week with a rare autoimmune issue where her immune system has started attacking her red blood cells as well as her stomach, with a 50% chance that it will attack her kidneys and bowel too. There's no treatment for it, it apparently eventually sorts itself out - unless it starts damaging the kidneys or bowel, and then they treat that (primarily with prednisolone, would you believe). It's very nasty and she's in a good deal of stomach pain almost all the time sad

brownstag Tue 08-Oct-13 12:47:09

Ari, you're not boring us with your DD. No one tries to conceive in isolation from the rest of their lives; this thread is to support people on this journey and it's all relevant.
Mr S should have known about your psoriasis and that hydroxy shouldn't be used with it, assuming that's true in all cases; after all, it's not a new drug and has been used in arthritis for ages. I do find, not just privately, but with the NHS too, that sometimes you are responsible for knowing everything! I once got prescribed the wrong stuff by Mr S, and even bought it, but queried it at the last minute. Brilliant though they are, they're all just so busy.

Buzzybee123 Tue 08-Oct-13 18:57:36

ari sorry to hear about your DD

pebbles I just used to get them from either Tesco or Superdrug, Shehata charges £20 a box but I don't recall it being very expensive

bellyd fingers crossed for you this cycle

swlondon hello smile

sue still thinking of you

Mel3062 Tue 08-Oct-13 20:11:43

Aw ari sad
The biopsy made my Af come early by 3 days Ish so my ovulation was earlier than usual x

Mel3062 Tue 08-Oct-13 20:25:22

Remember my first biopsy was August- hol time so there was a delay so 5 weeks. I've heard several people get their results in 2 weeks so I wouldn't worry x

swlondonnanny Tue 08-Oct-13 22:10:43

Ari hope I didn't upset you about your DD I genuinely thought that it can improve fairly quickly, sorry to hear that it can not.
I actually went to see a dermatologist when I was in Slovakia ( where I am from) as I was really in agony about my scalp, also knees, legs etc and she kept asking what medication I use etc. and was told to not use hydroxy ( after she consulted with a few other doctors ) as it can make psoriasis much worse/cause flare ups etc. Actually looking back I always ever since high school I had bits on my knees, elbows, legs and it always got worse with stress but never went to see a doctor about it. Didn't surprise me though, one more thing on my autoimmune list. Guess if it doesn't cause you any problems than it is good to keep taking it. Oh and was also told that high doses of Omega 3 are good for psoriasis...
I don't actually even want to know what DQa is...
Thank you Mel for reassurance and fingers crossed for much better resuls this time. Also I took paracetamol and ibuprofen an hour before the appointment and it wasn't that painful, actually.

Pebbles73 Tue 08-Oct-13 23:11:34

Good luck for Monday Mel!

Nanny I was initially seeing Mr S after never having a natural pregnancy and miscarrying and having chemical pregnancies after ivf on the nhs. I was diagnosed with high nkc's and did 6mths of super ov which didn't work for me. I was then tested for high tnf-alpha which also came back high and had humira. We then moved back to ivf and started seeing Mr G as that's his department.

Ari. so sorry about your dd, you must be worried sick! I hope she starts recovering soon.

Phoned Tesco today and the hydroxy is only £2.89 which was a pleasant surprise after all the money have had to spend on drugs recently!

Mel3062 Wed 09-Oct-13 06:38:22

Thanks ladies hoping so and ill rememember to take pills this time! Wow the mark up on drugs is scandalous!

duggs1976 Wed 09-Oct-13 06:50:32

Sue - from what I've read if a fetal pole measures 6+4 then there should be a visible heartbeat. So there is time for it to become visible.. However would you up the pred to 40mg for example if 25mg doesn't seem to be strong enough? Just a thought as it is all about getting enough nutrients to the fetus according to prof quenby? It is just so unfair because you have had success before at this stage so you know it can be beaten. Thinking of you.

Arianrhod Wed 09-Oct-13 10:12:42

mel Try Asda, if it's for medications you could always fib a little and say it's for IVF, then they sell them at cost price. I don't remember hydroxy being particularly expensive, but any cost saving is good in this game!

nanny No no, you didn't upset me at all, and I appreciate the wishes from everyone! Fortunately I haven't taken hydroxy in several months now, but I'm rather shocked to hear that the issues with psoriasis are well known. That makes me wonder whether Mr S ever really did read my medical notes?! Hmmmm. Funny you should say you never went to see a doctor, neither did I - in fact for a very long time I thought everyone had itchy slightly flaky elbows and pits in their nails.. ! It was only after DD was born and I got crippling joint pains as well as new psoriasis patches on my knees that I went to see the doctor and despite blood tests they never suggested anything other than hydrocortisone cream, which I tried for a while but was leery of because it can thin the skin where it's applied. So I stopped using it and just put up with it! I do actually take 3 grams of omega oil (3 grams active EPA/DHA, I actually take 6 capsules a day) to help with the old immune system suppression.

Interestingly I emailed John Bowen (I mentioned him before, Chinese herbalist that Serum recommend) to ask if he could recommend anything to help my DD, and he has suggested the same herb that he suggested to calm down my own immune system for DD, but obviously in smaller doses. So after he's answered a few questions that I've fired at him I'm going to get her taking these, I'll be extremely interested to see what happens as I plan to take these myself whenever she's better and I can start thinking about another IVF cycle.

Crossing fingers for everyone, and most especially sue right now.

suemays Wed 09-Oct-13 14:02:00

Thanks duggs that reassures me a bit that it might have been too early at 6+2. There was def some kind of pulsing so I am praying that it's developed into a heartbeat now. Even so I still think its measuring too small for the dates even if I did ovulate a week later on cd21. If that was the case, I got my first bfp at 6dpo on 9th sep which seems impossible to me???

It was confirmed that I had food poisoning last week - campylobacteria which can apparently cause miscarriages. If its imperative that the developing baby needs nutrients then this pregnancy looks doomed as I could only eat dry toast for three days. Its typical as I was the only one who got it. There's nothing more I can do now but wait until next Monday at my next scan but I am already expecting the worst.

suemays Wed 09-Oct-13 14:07:04

Forgot to say I am already on 40mg pred.

duggs1976 Wed 09-Oct-13 14:22:54

Oh sue. I think this is similar to my last pregnancy. At 6wks there was only a fetal pole - I couldn't face the 7 wks scan so I had a scan at 7+3 or something and although there was a hb looking back it was too weak and I think I knew it deep down. ESP when choccy wrote about her 156bpm at 6+5 and I also got a bfp at 10dpo so I would also have had a positive at 6dpo or something silly hmm I really don't understand this sue as you are on the same treatment protocol as last time? Could it really be chromosonal? I know I'm jumping the gun and hopefully the little hb has developed as there are lots of stories about slow developing fetus' in v early pregnancy as am sure you've read. If there isn't a hb I suppose you will want to establish if there were any chromosonal issues as this would mean you need to get pg again. (And you are pretty good at that sue). It just seems so unlikely to be nk cells do you think sue??

brownstag Wed 09-Oct-13 14:56:49

Sue, the nutrients would be taken from the supply in your body, not necessarily what you're eating day to day, so a few days of toast wouldn't make any difference, I'm sure. I also wouldn't worry about measuring small early on as both my last miscarriage and my DS measured small early on, to have caught up later on. I think they just can't see properly at this point. I've personally had heart beats at 6 plus 1 (DS), 6 plus 2 (mc) and 6 plus 4 (mc), but for me they are meaningless and not the good sign they are meant to be as it all goes wrong around 8 plus 4 generally. Really hoping this one sticks, Sue.

suemays Wed 09-Oct-13 15:00:22

I have no idea what to think at the moment. I guess until my next scan I can only guess if this will work or not. I still don't know if the food poisoning is cussing a problem.

suemays Wed 09-Oct-13 15:04:45

Causing should have read! I had a heartbeat at 8+2 with one pregnancy which then died a few days later. Until a baby is actually born I don't think I will ever relax again in a pregnancy.

Arianrhod Wed 09-Oct-13 15:18:33

sue I'd echo what brown says. Consider the many women that due to severe morning sickness exist on nothing but toast, or dry crackers, or suchlike for days at a time. The nutrients the baby needs come from your body, so unless you are particularly malnourished, the only person who is likely to have a nourishment issue from you surviving three days on dry toast is you. Hope to goodness it is just a dating issue or the fact that it's really too early to see anything at 6+2, but I know it's hell waiting to find out. Nothing worse than being stuck in limbo.

suemays Wed 09-Oct-13 16:09:44

Hey I am used to being stuck in limbo! Nothing can be as bad as the waiting we had to do last year when we knew there were problems with scarlet. I keep telling myself that if it has to fail due to a chromosonal prob I would rather it happen sooner than later.

Pebbles73 Thu 10-Oct-13 13:20:33

You poor thing Sue but as the others said am sure just living on toast won't have hurt and am sure you take a pregnancy multi vitamin. Thinking of you and have fingers crossed.

Can I ask what dose of hydroxy people have had, I have been given 200mg three times a day which seems a lot?!

brownstag Thu 10-Oct-13 16:22:11

200mg once a day.

Mel3062 Thu 10-Oct-13 17:20:42

Same as brown x

BellyD Thu 10-Oct-13 22:59:42

Pebbles I would check that doseage with NL, as when I was taking it, the amount it said to take on the box was double what Mr S wanted me to take and it took me a few weeks to figure it out.

duggs1976 Fri 11-Oct-13 08:58:00

AF has arrived 4 wks + 2 days post ERPC. Off we go again (big sigh)confused We are getting a puppy on Monday Bailey. To add to the 2 cats (kitten got Christmas 2 yrs ago after some other conception disaster attempt! I'll have a farm soon enough if I don't get a live baby out of all this ..... Morning folks. Not sure about 3 times a day pebbles ?? Sounds a bit excessive?

suemays Fri 11-Oct-13 11:46:31

200mg once a day for me too. I asked if I should double up last year as only took steroids from bfp but he said no.

Pebbles73 Sat 12-Oct-13 08:29:50

Thanks ladies, I emailed one of the nurses who is checking for me.

How lovely to get a puppy Duggs we have two cats who are defo my fur babies and spoil them rotten! Hopefully you won't need to get anymore!!

Mel3062 Sat 12-Oct-13 08:47:04

Aw my friends lab is Bailey. I too have a cat, rabbit and little ginger and white kitten called Basil (well hes daughter Lucies but my baby at mo whilst shes at uni!)

lemonsherbet Mon 14-Oct-13 18:44:56

I also had 2cats (one of them died earlier this year and spent ages crying over the loss of my fur baby).

Thinking of you sue.

Mel3062 Tue 15-Oct-13 06:27:08

Sue hope you've had a good scan. I had biopsy and it took 3 gos as I am s shaped so had to go round corners very painful I had to grip the nurses hand!
Came back and in a and e with hubby from midnight til 5, they kept him in they think its his gall bladder and also found a heart murmur that's worrying them as the ECG was also abnormal. We were in a and e 4 hours Sunday night too so v tired sad

suemays Tue 15-Oct-13 07:25:35

Scan was bad, baby hadn't grown and no heartbeat. Going to Epu hopefully today to confirm that its non viable and will then go for another d&c. Think I am at the end of the road now after 9 losses.

swlondonnanny Tue 15-Oct-13 10:09:30

Sue so sorry to hear that it's not meant to be this time. Did you carry on with acupunture during this pregnancy? What did they say? Sorry for all this questions, hope you don't mind. I am having loads of acupuncture with a guy who is specializing in recurrent miscariage and has his own 'autoimmune protocol'. I am yet to get pregnant and see if it works but was wondering if the one you went/go to was doing aning 'special'.
Good luck at EPU hope they will not upset you even more than you are now.
Mel was thinking about you yesterday, sorry the biopsy was so unpleasant/painful. Hopefully you'll get good results soon. Also best of the luck to you DH, hope he'll get better/well soon. What did you mean by you being s shaped?

Pebbles73 Tue 15-Oct-13 14:15:56

Sue I was so sad to read your news, I know how disappointed and down you must be feeling. Don't make any decisions right now as you are probably feeling pretty worn out by it all and hormonal. After a rest you may feel ready to have another go.

Sorry to hear about your oh and sounds like you had a horrible time with the biopsy you poor thing!!

How is everyone else doing?

duggs1976 Tue 15-Oct-13 14:51:16

Pretty rubbish pebbles! I said to sue why is there no rhyme or reason for all of this. I feel like I won't ever get to be a mum and then look at pebbles and sue and myself and think it is all a damn lottery. Exhausted with it all. Even thinking of sue brings it all back.

Arianrhod Tue 15-Oct-13 15:41:38

Horribly sh1tty, I'll agree with you there duggs. So very sorry sue, this whole journey really is feckin awful. Big hugs to all of you!

Mel3062 Tue 15-Oct-13 17:07:24

Aw sue I'm so sorry sad
Thanks for the wishes I've had 2 hours sleep! Where they needed to get the tube round Is straight in some people but no mine goes round 2 bends?! Abnormal??!!

suemays Tue 15-Oct-13 20:47:18

I have been having acupuncture with someone who specialises in recurrent miscarriage for over a year now. Thinking of stopping it and all the drugs for a while partly due to cost and also because I want my life back to normal.
I am so fed up with the whole merry go round of life being put on hold and I don't know how much more I can take.

Yes I might conceive quickly once we try but what's the point if it is always doomed to fail? I seriously tj

suemays Tue 15-Oct-13 21:05:50

I have been having acupuncture with someone who specialises in recurrent miscarriage for over a year now. Thinking of stopping it and all the drugs for a while partly due to cost and also because I want my life back to normal.
I am so fed up with the whole merry go round of life being put on hold and I don't know how much more I can take.

Yes I might conceive quickly once we try but what's the point if it is always doomed to fail? I seriously think that the majority of my miscarriages are down to aging eggs at the age of 41. I could keep trying for the next 2 years, have another 9 miscarriages and never find the elusive egg. I am also concerned that it's not good for my health with surpressing my immune system for so long. Its different if you go on shehatas plan and conceive with a successful pregnancy in a few months but what about us old timers? Surely it can't be good to be on the drugs for so long? I keep thinking of snoopy who was diagnosed with breast cancer after being on the drugs for a while. My DH said he is scared that he will lose me and end up with two kids on his own.

I also then wonder if ivf would work for me again or not but then I think of duggs who had cgh testing and yet it still failed. I could spend 7k on an ivf cycle and it will either be cancelled again due to poor response or I could miscarry or worse still get to 20 weeks and there be another problem. We also don't have the money to gamble when the odds are so stacked against us.

DH is worried that we will end up having a baby but it will be severely disabled. He thinks we are fated to not have a healthy baby now.

So my question to you ladies is, do you seriously think I have any kind of chance of conceiving a healthy baby naturally after 9 losses at my age or should I give up and try to appreciate what I do have? Should I go cold turkey and stop all the meds and acupuncture and try naturally or do I spend our savings on one last go of ivf?? I really don't know what to do.

Buzzybee123 Tue 15-Oct-13 22:56:13

sue would you consider DE IVF ??

suemays Tue 15-Oct-13 23:46:03

* buzzy* DH and I have discussed adoption and donor eggs but we both feel we would treat the child differently to our dd. It would be different if we didnt have her. The grandparents who play a massive part in dds life would also treat the other child differently so I don't think it would be fair on the child. For that reason I couldn't do it. One of my best friends has 2 DE kids from the same donor so its a subject we have spoken about at great length.

swlondonnanny Wed 16-Oct-13 09:11:17

Oh Sue you post actually brought tears into my eye. It is so close to my thought and feelings. Only you can decide what is right for you and your family. You don't have to decide now. You can stop all the medication and start using contraception for a while. And if you feel like TTC in a few months or a year you can try again.
I had so far 9 early losses with my DH - always before 6 weeks but still pretty upsetting - and 2 with previous partner ( when I was 30). Am 38now. If I actually had a child I wouldn't put myself through all this again. We were having a chat with DH last night when I said so and he looked very confused asking why wouldn't I want more children???? Men, hey? Also adoption or DE etc just doesn't feel right, that we both agreed on.
We kind of came to a conclusion that we'll try till I am 40 ( so another nearly 2 years) or till I have a nervous breakdown (hopefully not!) - whichever comes first.
Could I have a name of your acupuncturist? Am happy with mine but if noting happens in a few months time I might go to see someone else. If you don't want to put it here could you pm me please?
Ari you mentioned hight dose of omega 3 - where do you get yours from?

Arianrhod Wed 16-Oct-13 12:10:03

sue I so feel for you and what you're going through. I've thought the same and OH has raised the point, what if something (god forbid) were to happen to me, I need to think about DD. Given that I'm older still, apparently older ladies (my type older, not yours, you're a spring chicken smile ) can have serious problems towards the end of their pregnancies.

However, I don't know, I felt absolutely fine when I had DD at just-39, and I don't feel any different now. Only you know how you feel, health-wise.

As for chasing that elusive egg, well that's another tricky one. We have absolutely no way, unfortunately, of telling what state our eggs in. I do think of abney and her success, but of course everyone's different.

I was going to ask the same thing as buzzy, have you thought of DE, but I see you don't want to do that and I understand. I know I wouldn't feel any different with a donor egg child than I would to DD - if I've carried it in my body then he or she would be my child in every way possible and I don't believe I would love him or her any differently, of course the whole epigenetic angle helps as well. But I completely hear you and your feelings (and your DH's) are obviously what count, only you know yourselves.

I know my DD's illness has made me rethink the whole process myself, but I still haven't come to any hard and fast decision even so.
I would caution against deciding anything right now, but perhaps taking a break from the whole rotten proceedings might help you. Give your body a bit of time to return to normal, and your heart and head some time to heal too. Getting off the rollercoaster might help things settle and see how you feel in a few months or so perhaps?

Take care of you, we all understand how you feel and we're here for you whatever you decide. xx

Arianrhod Wed 16-Oct-13 12:11:18

Sorry nanny I missed your question. I take Super Omega capsules from Healthspan, 6 a day (3 morning, 3 evening)!

Pebbles73 Wed 16-Oct-13 14:23:12

I think most things have been said Sue and I agree that now is not the time to make decisions. Your emotions must be all over the place and I don't know about you but it always takes me a good few weeks or so to start feeling less hormonal and more like myself and not crying at the drop of a hat!

I think it is very hard to know when to stop particularly if you get pregnant naturally, for us because of the expense of ivf we will use our frozen embryo and then if brave enough try with a de and then that would be it. Not sure about adoption but maybe will feel differently when get to the end if treatment.
I would be ecstatic to just have one child and be able to have a family life although that dream seems very far off these days. I am tempted to say if I was you I would enjoy your dd have a rest from it all and then see how you feel after some time away from ttc.

suemays Wed 16-Oct-13 17:20:03

Thanks for all the support and advice ladies. I had a scan at Epu today and it confirmed the failed pregnancy. I am having an Erpc tomorrow morning as hoping to get this pregnancy tested. I haven't started bleeding yet and there is still a foetal pole in the sac so I am hoping to catch it before it disintegrates too much. I told DH today that I was booked in tomorrow and he said " this can't come at a worse time for me as I have booked my car in at the garage and work is so busy that I can't take time off!" Sorry to be an inconvenience! I wish men would think before they blurt stuff out. Anyway my neighbour is taking me tomorrow instead. That's another reason why I was thinking of stopping as DH doesn't have the same need as me for another child and can be a bit of a b*stard when it comes to dealing with emotions. I always feel alone in this struggle!

I spoke to the midwife at ZW today and she was lovely (a bit like Louise at nlc). We chatted about ivf and using cgh as an option in the future but we can't afford to do that. I told her about you duggs that it failed for you so it's still not a fail safe treatment. I also asked her about clomid as I know it works differently to letrozole. I have never tried clomid but would consider that as it tends to push out more than one egg at a time, whereas letrozole tends to just develop one or two. My friend had 3 sacks on clomid at her 7 week scan with 2 having embryos. She sadly lost one but is now 27 weeks with the one baby. Just goes to show you that 2 out of her three eggs failed.

ZW said I would need to wait a couple of months anyway to rest my body so I might be ready to try again then.

pebbles I agree that its hard to know when to stop when I can still conceive as I feel like I am constantly grieving. One minute I am happy I am preg and then it all comes crashing down.

suemays Wed 16-Oct-13 17:30:45

swilondonanny the main reason I am doing this is because dd gets upset that she doesn't have a sibling. She still keeps drawing pictures of her and the baby I lost last year playing together and asks me daily why she can't have a sister. It breaks my heart as I feel like I am letting her down. The reasons change once you have one child. She doesn't have any family her own age and I worry that as we are older parents that she could be left on her own in the future. I think ari also said the same thing about her dd.

I think that the need to have a child of either one or two or three etc feels the same to the person who want it. I keep saying that I would be happy at two and stop but there are ladies on here who are trying for their 3rd with recurrent miscarriages. I empathise with the ladies on here who want to experience being a mum with just one child as I think my dd is the only thing that has kept me going.

swlondonnanny Wed 16-Oct-13 17:43:54

Well I am a bit, well don't even know what to call it. Just had DH sperm analysis and he has a low sperm count and they recommend ICSI based on the results!!! No wonder I am not really getting pregnant recently ( last year). I suppose I'd better post on general conception to see how to improve it ( he had a few health issues over last year so am not that surprised but was hoping for better results)

swlondonnanny Wed 16-Oct-13 17:53:54

Sue sorry didn't see you post . Yes I do understand that. I have a sister. It is lovely to have a sibling. She is now thinking about having a fourth one. As she feels that her family is not complete yet. She has loads of healt issues and the next pregnancy would be really bad for her health. But she still feels that she really wants another baby.
I hope I didn't upset you. I hope I didn't sound like I was saying you should not try for another one. If I sounded like that I do apologize.
I admire you for your strenght. And how well you cope

suemays Wed 16-Oct-13 21:56:34

Don't worry you didn't upset me! It must be hard for you seeing your sister with 3 kids even if she does want another. I think its more the fact that its hard when the decision to have kids is taken away from us regardless of how many.

With your DH sperm count there is lots that can be done to improve it. A friend of mine had the same prob and they conceived first time with icsi with twins. He had weekly acupuncture and used vitamins from zita west. Brazil nuts and pumpkin/sunflower seeds are supposed to help too plus a restricted diet free from alcohol and wheat.

Arianrhod Thu 17-Oct-13 10:43:14

sue Yes, that's exactly the case for me too. DD still desperately wants a sibling of her own - she has no cousins that are children, all are adults, and she so very much wants someone of her own, even though she knows they wouldn't really be a playmate for her now because she's almost 7. It's the only thing that keeps me on this maddening journey and breaks my heart that I haven't been able to do this for her.

nanny Echoing what sue says - there are lots of things that can help with improving sperm, including vitamins like co-q10, a good fertility multivit like sue suggests, selenium and zinc spring to mind. I didn't have this issue, but if you read around there are lots of things that can help. Also have the two of you done the 'hidden' chlamydia and the other Greek infection testing? Sometimes the antibiotics that are prescribed for these also vastly improves sperm.

Pebbles73 Thu 17-Oct-13 13:27:51

NLC just came back to me about hydroxy dose and they are saying that it is right 200mg three times a day! I feel a bit bad about questioning Mr G but said to them I knew other people who were prescribed it by Mr S and it was only once a day, what with the metformin that will make six a day before I even count vitamins and them pred etc...thlhmm

Is the pregnant girl at works leaving drink as she is off on maternity today, trying to get out of it but feeling like a miserable cow for not going and getting hassled by people to go. Just not sure I can face her happiness and constant stroking of her bump.....

Arianrhod Thu 17-Oct-13 13:35:44

pebbles If you don't feel up to going, then just don't go. No-one should ever feel pressurised in going to any social event, least of all one where you will feel really uncomfortable at the very least! Interesting what you say about your hydroxy dose, I wonder why it's so much more? I was also prescribed just one 200mg a day.

Pebbles73 Thu 17-Oct-13 13:56:48

I am normally pretty sociable but said no to all work things recently as have either been having treatment, pregnant or miscarrying!

It worries me such a high dose and also Mr G said he doesn't normally prescribe it and would need to see Mr S but I got him to backtrack as wasn't paying another load of money for an appointment just to get a prescription.

lemonsherbet Thu 17-Oct-13 18:37:59

sue I just wanted to echo what everyone else has said. No new words from me other than I am sorry that you are going through this. Just take your time to think what you want to do long term. I also would love to give my ds a sibling. Before he was born I was just saying even if I could just have one. Now I want him to have a sibling so that he is not alone when me and dh die (not for many years hopefully.) But at one level I may have to accept he is my miracle. Also I do not want him to lose out if we are spending all our time TTC and then the fear of each pregnancy. Does that make sense. He is only 3 months old and I am already thinking that.

pebbles could you just take it once a day if you think Mr G has the dose too high. Could it be the difference between different doctor regime. You know Mr S prednisolone doses seem high compared to others. Do you think it is something like that?

brownstag Fri 18-Oct-13 06:59:05

Lemon, you echo my sentiments exactly. Especially lately, when I read about the desperate pain of some of you ladies to have baby no 1, I count my blessings and think why should I be allowed to have another one, when I've already had my miracle, and some people would be so grateful to be where I am. But at the same time, I would like so much to give him a sibling. I think about the burden of looking after us when we're old for instance, and that falling on his shoulders entirely. He calls the hamster his brother and the cat his sister and that's pretty pitiful!

suemays Fri 18-Oct-13 09:57:19

We are hopefully getting a puppy next year so that will have to be my furry baby too! Seems like a lot of us are substituting pets. It all helps I think and dd has already named him Fred!

suemays Fri 18-Oct-13 09:57:55

I also feel guilty that we have one ch

suemays Fri 18-Oct-13 10:00:24

I also feel guilty that we have one child and there are ladies on here who are TTC their first.

Changing the subject, did anyone see in the news last week that preg women should avoid all tinned food and using a microwave as it has been proved to increase miscarriages?

brownstag Fri 18-Oct-13 14:39:20

I always instinctively kept out of the way of microwaves in pregnancy, but tinned food too? Don't these people know we've got enough to worry about?!

swlondonnanny Fri 18-Oct-13 15:57:39

Hmm microwave and tinned food - don't do either... Use special stainsteel pots to cook in as well... Hasn't helped so far.
Anyway, Well I just peed on the test! Am 9dpo. But was told in my RCM to start testing early. There is something - a ghost of a line. Can't tell if blue or gray. So can be evaporation line. But was there within 3 mins. And all the mentaling starts again. Will test tomorrow with red/pink test, as they are more reliable. I just don't know if I should start stuffing myself with all the medication - test might be faulty. Or not and if the test is right I might miss it! Grrr... I can't just start injecting myself with bloody fragmin... Or can I? Don't even know how. Also need cyclogest and prednisolone from positive test. What to do???

duggs1976 Fri 18-Oct-13 16:01:49

Nanny 9dpo is still v early so I would say hold out until tomorrow as a day this early won't make a difference. Then if it is a positive tomorrow you can get on the clexane, cyclogest and pred. Best of luck x

swlondonnanny Fri 18-Oct-13 17:45:00

Thank you Duggs, that's true, another 12 hours shouldn't make much difference

brownstag Fri 18-Oct-13 18:07:42

Brill, Nanny. What tests do you use? I find the blue-lined ones better than pink. These procedures seem to do the job, don't they? Somehow rummaging around in there seems to trigger something good.

suemays Fri 18-Oct-13 18:34:35

I don't eat a lot of tinned food either but do have jacket potatoes with beans plus cook porridge in the microwave!

swnanny were you on superovulation or using an hcg injection as that could be left over in your system? duggs and I both had this happen.

I think with my last miscarriage I got a bfp at 8 dpo so it is possible though!

swlondonnanny Fri 18-Oct-13 18:39:42

Brown Clearblue one with cross, think they are meant to be 4 days early. Always work earlier for me that FRER, and they are cheaper.
They did endometrial scratch with the biopsy - that was last cycle, was told that should help with implantation in next few cycles.
If that test is positive tomorrow I will put it down to my new love of new smirnoff gold though grin. I don't normally drink alcohol but when I got pregnant in february I had a 'few' shots of cognac. So my conclusion ( if I am pregnant ) would be that I need to drink more from ovulation and my DH not at all ( to improve his sperm count!!!)
I wonder if there is any study done to see how NKcells react to spirits???
If not maybe we should do one? grin

swlondonnanny Fri 18-Oct-13 18:42:48

Sue no, only help I get is with acupuncture, seems to work well so far ( ovulation bit I mean)

brownstag Fri 18-Oct-13 19:46:35

I like your theory, nanny, and to back it up, this last pregnancy I got absolutely hammered on a girls' night out, out until 3am, at 2dpo. Also my first pregnancy ever I could not have drunk more if I'd tried as I got a bfp just after Christmas/New Year.

Buzzybee123 Fri 18-Oct-13 20:46:42

nanny fingers crossed for you

sue and brown you shouldn't feel guilty, it is natural to want another child

that report is a bit OTT, as the list of things to avoid is ridiculous, I am sure I do all the things it tells me not to

swlondonnanny Sat 19-Oct-13 06:20:47

Well, looks like it was a strange test yesterday, superdrug own had no second line today.
There is always next month...

brownstag Sat 19-Oct-13 07:49:33

Sorry to hear that, Nanny, but you didn't compare like with like, so it may be that the Superdrug one is less sensitive.

Mel3062 Sat 19-Oct-13 13:07:54

Sue you're in my thoughts. Nanny here's to a more sensitive test!

Pebbles73 Sun 20-Oct-13 15:58:20

So sorry to read your posts nannyits so horrible to get your hopes up and then have them dashed again.

How are you doing Duggs and Sue? Had been managing really well and then a sad song came on radio Friday and just burst into tears! To be expected I guess!

It's now just over four weeks and my stomach had started going down but last five days is really bloated and still look pregnant. How long has it taken it other peoples to go back to normal? Hoping its pmt rather than retained products. Think will give af another week to appear and if not do a pregnancy test in case miscarriage has not completed.

God we need some good news on here.....

Mel3062 Sun 20-Oct-13 19:42:55

We do pebbles. My tummy has always gone flat pretty quick sad expecting af to of been early again after biopsy but due today and not much happening.
I think we all can relate to your tears, sometimes when we stop to think it all gets too much and too unfair.
Hubby out of hosp at last they thought he had anklyosing spondilitis like his dad/ arthritis of spine but no sign of it yet thank goodness. His dad is very stooped and xNt move his neck sad

brownstag Sun 20-Oct-13 22:10:37

That's a relief about your DH, Mel. x
Pebbles , I've only just recently lost my stomach from my April miscarriage. Pred greed being the main culprit sad

duggs1976 Sun 20-Oct-13 22:12:48

Hey pebbles! I'm here. Busy with puppy ( god it's hard work) not yet house trainedconfused Thinking if this next IVF round brings a 7th mc then to throw in the towel and move onto surrogacy. Surrogacy scares me but it would mean I wouldn't have to be pregnant again. Still can't quite contemplate how I'd even start on that journey. How about you chick ? What did dr Gafar say?

Pebbles73 Sun 20-Oct-13 23:58:23

Hope it arrives soon Mel and you must be very relieved about your oh, everybody seems to be having to deal with so much at the moment! Just as well you are all such a strong group of women!!

I don't blame you Duggs. and you would get your longed for family which you deserve. Good luck with the puppy.

It seems the dose of hydroxy is right so started taking it three times a day. Just need af to arrive but is obviously going to be delayed...

Brown mine is just so bloated, is normally pretty flat diary from pmt bloat. Fingers crossed it is just that.

Mel3062 Tue 22-Oct-13 07:11:58

Thanks ladies I do feel it's just a matter of time as we know he has either anklyosing spondilitis or rheumatoid as his brother has the other one :/ af very funny it's been like black bits no red at all :/ hope everything's normal :/

Pebbles73 Wed 23-Oct-13 13:16:21

Well I did a pg test today to check no retained products and for once was so happy to get a negative!! Spotting has stopped so thankfully seems to be over.

How is everyone ekes doing, is v quite...,

Pebbles73 Wed 23-Oct-13 13:16:53

Sorry else not ekes!!

duggs1976 Wed 23-Oct-13 14:04:32

Good for you pebbles. You always seem so bright. I know you are not. I'm ok ovulated yesterday so bd then DH off to far east. Dr s app 2 nov. started 25 mg pred today - reluctantly but no choice really. Have decided with DH adoption is probably not for us and if the next 2 IVF cycles don't work then will look at a donor egg cycle at serum next year. If that fails too... Then we have the animals and nice holidays I guess ... Can also borrow nieces and nephews.

Pebbles73 Wed 23-Oct-13 14:10:08

I have good days and bad days but as has all been going on for so long I think I have just had to learn to live with it!

I feel like you Duggs and not sure yet if adoption would be for me, think I would also rather try the donor egg option as will also answer the question of if my eggs are crap! As you say if not will just have to get in with life and have fab holidays!!

How are you feeling?

Arianrhod Wed 23-Oct-13 15:40:58

Just the sound of people quietly banging their heads against a brick wall, I think .. ! It's astonishing what you do learn to live with, I fear that one of these days it's all going to come crashing down on me and I'll end up a gibbering wreck somewhere. Anyone feel like joining me? ;)

duggs1976 Wed 23-Oct-13 18:47:53

I do worry about how it will be if I ever get a live baby of my own - I have such rose tinted views that I'm sure I will unravel. Would be lovely to go into some "camp" and just get pregnant and get past 12 weeks with other people in similar situations and then come out when safer. Like champneys and ARGC if I was rich I'd go there. wink

Pebbles73 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:29:33

Mite than anything I find it is frustrating, why can't we get pregnant and just enjoy it and expect to have a baby at the end like everyone else?? Sometimes I feel so jealous it hurts. Have been known to shout whenn

Pebbles73 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:33:04

To shout when in the car and have terrible road rage which relieves some frustration!! I am not mad, honestly......

Duggs ARGC and Champneys for 12 weeks sound perfect!! thlsmile

swlondonnanny Thu 24-Oct-13 07:53:39

Went to church on Sunday ( not my ususal one as we were travelling) and there was a couple who just had a prem baby so we were saying a prayer for them. I normally don't cry but I just couldn't stop. People probably thought it was us! Found it really embarasing... But guess everyone copes with all this stress differently.
On a positive note DH started his new diet, supplements and acupuntrure smile He should have another sperm test in 4 weeks time so with all those changes we should see some results by then.

brownstag Thu 24-Oct-13 12:02:28

I have had several uncontrollable crying experiences in church too! It's as if all normally repressed emotion comes out once in those 4 walls. And I'm not even a very good church-goer; once or twice a year.
Good luck with DH's new regime. I'm sure it will have a marked benefit.

Pebbles73 Thu 24-Oct-13 13:47:15

I know what you mean about the whole church thing, I only go for weddings etc but visited a couple of Cathedrals on holidays and lit a candle for my losses which made me blub!

Mel3062 Sat 26-Oct-13 12:50:33

Hope you are all well.
Been to collect daughter from uni- totally wrong course so looks like I'll have her for a while yet!
Got biopsy results after 3 weeks of no vits or med it's down from 48% to 3.29% amazing!!!!

duggs1976 Sat 26-Oct-13 15:45:24

Ohh poor dd but company for you. What does that mean then mel ?

Mel3062 Sat 26-Oct-13 16:35:31

Well I have to discuss next steps on mon with prof quenby so it will be interesting. I'm amazed how much it's dropped! Under 5 is nOrmal level so yes no wonder I hAd a chemical at 48%! Hope youre ok duggs x

duggs1976 Sat 26-Oct-13 22:09:01

Remind me how you got them down so much?

Mel3062 Sun 27-Oct-13 07:03:00

Prof quenby asked me to stop All medication and vitamins as something had made them go haywire so I did. Trouble is it could of been anything as I was on loads and I'll never know which it was. Going to avoid royal jelly and probiotic now though in case. It will be interesting what she suggests tomorrow though I'm abit worried still about the high tnf alpha as she may say no hydroxy x

brownstag Sun 27-Oct-13 08:09:44

That is amazing, Mel, fantastic news. Especially since they were so high I did wonder whether you would be able to reduce them significantly. And it does make you think about all the vitamins we take one on top of the other, whether they are doing more harm than good ...
But why worry about knowing which it was? Surely it is best not to have to take anything? A lot cheaper too!

Mel3062 Sun 27-Oct-13 08:30:28

Thanks brownstag I'm just worried as mr s suggests vits d, fish oil etc. I'm going to stop the aspirin and try what prof quenby suggests I think for a while but I'm wondering if shel let me continue hydroxy for the tnf alpha. Does she still recommend folic acid etc??

Pebbles73 Mon 28-Oct-13 13:50:54

Wow that's amazing mel, can't believe it has made such a difference! Will be interesting to see what treatment she advises going forward.

duggs1976 Mon 28-Oct-13 16:09:03

Waiting to hear what prof Q says ?!!

Mel3062 Mon 28-Oct-13 17:11:20

Sorry duggs got day wrong it's tomorrow at 8pm doh!! Then seeing mr gorgy we'd am too, in 2 minds about going but I guess I may as well rule that out and get it done whilst hubby is willing x

duggs1976 Mon 28-Oct-13 17:51:12

I certainly recommend dr Gorgy keep us postedxgrin

Mel3062 Mon 28-Oct-13 18:43:01

Thanks will do x

brownstag Mon 28-Oct-13 19:44:51

I'd be interested in what Prof Q says about hydroxy, Mel. If her theory is that in RM the womb is low on natural steroids, rather than needing pred for its immunosuppressant qualities, I wonder if she thinks hydroxy is a waste of time. As that works differently from steroids as far as I know.

brownstag Tue 29-Oct-13 08:13:59

... As from today I've decided to limit myself to 5 supplements: multivit, DHEA, coenzyme q10, flax oil, and agnus castus. On the basis that I've been spending money like water on supplements the last 3 years, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I may go even further and stop some more!

Arianrhod Tue 29-Oct-13 09:08:09

brown You're echoing my exact thoughts, I was thinking about my supplements in the shower this morning (I do most of my productive thinking in the shower!). My only slight hiccup to stopping some of mine is that I emailed my list of supplements to Penny a couple of months or so ago and asked her if she thought these were all ok, she said they're fine and carry on taking them. But like you say, I've spent SO much money on supplements over the last 3.5 years, and nothing to show for it! A couple of mine are supposed to be beneficial to the thyroid (I'm hypo) and of course methylfolate for the MTHFR, but I'd really love to be able to knock some of them on the head, they're just so damn expensive.

mel Very interested indeed to hear what Prof. Q and Dr G. say, do keep us posted smile

suemays Tue 29-Oct-13 12:49:56

Funny enough I have stopped all supplements until next week and then will only take pregnacare, dhea and vitd 3. DH thinks next time I get preg I shouldn't bother with steroids or intrallipids or hydroxy. After the last 3 pregnancies being on it all I do wonder if it helps or not seeing as I have nothing to show. What would you all do at bfp though???

brownstag Tue 29-Oct-13 20:07:31

Yes, I'd do everything I did with my DS; so take pred from BFP. I only took a multivit and flax oil when I conceived him, and then I changed flax oil to an algal oil omega 3 capsule on BFP. And went gluten free for the pregnancy.
As for the DHEA, coenzyme q10 and agnus castus, that's all aimed at keeping the whole system going for as long as possible ... I'd like to stop them too, but don't want to be menopausal quite yet.
This will all have to involve no more googling of new research that might lead to the uptake of new supplements.

Mel3062 Tue 29-Oct-13 20:22:22

We'll ladies prof quenby was v relieved!!she doesn't want me taking any suppresents as something has disagreed and that route isn't for me. So shed like me to try again but with just pregnacare, cyclogest twice a day and heperin. Scary stuff but I've not tried just those before!

Mel3062 Tue 29-Oct-13 20:27:18

Onto mr gorgy tomorrow for dqa testing ;)

Mel3062 Tue 29-Oct-13 20:29:28

Apparently vitamins can react with each other too but pregnacare is mild. Does anyone need any vits? I've loads of dhea... You name it I have it!!

Mel3062 Wed 30-Oct-13 13:52:38

Seen mr gorgy £2015! Ouch had repeat nk test, kir, fgi?semen c and s? And Sperm DNA frag? Is this dif to basic sperm test? He mentioned lad. Poor hubby he wasn't prepared for this and I wasn't prepared for the cost! :/

duggs1976 Wed 30-Oct-13 14:48:02

Sperm DNA is sent to Chicago - it looks at fragmentation. It can be a good indicator for recurrent miscarriage. It is £300 and if you only take one of his tests this is the one I would take. ( I am biased as DH had issues that got fixed with strong antibiotics) x

Mel3062 Wed 30-Oct-13 16:37:55

I've had all the above duggs. The sample wasn't done until 1.50 will it still be ok to get sent? What are they looking for? Left dr beer book at home! X

duggs1976 Wed 30-Oct-13 18:21:37

They say DNA is sperm is like a ladder and when there is oxidative damage the rungs are broken. A dye is injected into the sperm and attaches to any broken rungs. It is then passed across a laser beam so a percentage of fragmentation can be assessed. Everyone has some level of fragmentation but 1 precent or less is normal. My DH had 33 percent last May 2012. By sep and medication he was down to 22 percent and by January 2013 down to 15.1 percent. They say there is a 1 percent chance of live birth with a result over 33 percent. So no wonder I was having recurrent miscarriages. But still he is fixed I don't seem to be shock

duggs1976 Wed 30-Oct-13 19:18:43

Sorry I meant 15 percent is normal !

brownstag Wed 30-Oct-13 20:07:07

That's a very graphic way of describing it, Duggs; interesting.
Your poor pocket, Mel! But hopefully something worthwhile will come out of it all.

Some info for vegetarians with RM on this thread:
Remember the University of West London health study I've been part of, looking at homocysteine levels and B12 supplementation in veggies/vegans? Well, my results are in! Homocysteine down from 12 to 7, so down from high to optimum. And I quote their recommendations:

'There is a good reduction in plasma tHcy, which is now at optimum level. However, it is not known at this time whether you were in the vitamin B12 group or the placebo group. This will not be known until the pilot study is finalised and we will be in touch with you again to inform you of this with any further recommendations. It is evident from your diet that you need to consider increasing your supplementation of vitamin B12 and it is recommended that this should be done by the methylcobalamin type. Please note that cyanocobalamin, which is used widely in supplements cannot be absorbed directly by the body nor can it reduce homocysteine because it does not contain a methyl group. The body therefore has to convert it into methylcobalamin, which can take several weeks and can be very inefficient.'

Now quite plainly I was in the treatment group to have had such a result. So while I'm busy getting rid of all my supplements, I might have to add this one!
For anyone who doesn't know, high homocysteine is associated with recurrent miscarriage.

Arianrhod Wed 30-Oct-13 21:53:25

Interesting results brown, thanks for sharing it with us. I've been taking methylcobalamin for a couple of years now and that's one I'm not tempted to give up. Good to hear it had such a positive effect for you.

Mel3062 Thu 31-Oct-13 09:37:48

Sorry things are still not working for you duggs. Mr gorgy went v technical talking about using hubby and doner and I got abit lost. Hubby's upset as it seems like all that time and money with mr s and were having to start again.
It will be interesting to see what my nk cells are doing now though. I think ill just go with prof quenby til results are back. I did say to hubby that these tests are different :/ I take it the nhs sperm test is just count not fragmentation.
Brown v interesting results! Good luck x

duggs1976 Thu 31-Oct-13 11:17:54

No NHS test just motility and mobility and count. I would recommend sticking with prof quenby and if her plan doesn't work then you can try someone else. I only went to dr Gorgy after a year on dr s plan and the 2 chromosonally perfect IVF losses with full immunes (Not hydroxy). As it happened my nk count was normal when I tested with him but it fluctuates as you know. Stick with prof quenby for now and give her a chance. Dr G can be if you don't get anywhere with prof Q. It is a frightening time. Zita west and dr Nudwuke is another one that some people on here are seeing and to be honest you could do the rounds with all of them and we still can't control the natural chromosonal miscarriages that we may have in there ! Keep us updated on how you get on.

duggs1976 Thu 31-Oct-13 11:19:37

How are sue, pebbles and scooter doing ?x

Mel3062 Thu 31-Oct-13 12:26:21

Thanks duggs your right. Don't think hubby will be willing to see anyone else after this sad I guess I was right to get nk retested even though uterus is ok x

Pebbles73 Thu 31-Oct-13 15:10:23

Hi Duggs am doing ok but just lurking at the mo. Miscarriage has defo finished and just waiting for af to arrive but looks like it will take its time. Was hoping to use the frozen embryo before Xmas but think it will be to close and can't face it all and another m/c over Xmas. Having some days when feel really down and stupid things like looking through Boots Xmas catalogue and seeing newborn my first Xmas things bringing tears to my eyes! Think deep down I am scared as facing the end of the road as can't pay out for ivf over and over. Is v frustrating to not get pregnant naturally and then miscarry when I do!!

How are you going Duggs and have you had af since m/c? What is your plan if action next?

Mel I hope you get some answers and find the treatment that works for you, good luck!

Interesting talk about supplements I have pretty much stopped the aspirin now and take multi but with omega, vit D, methylfolate, hydroxy and metformin which seems a lot!

How are you feeling Ari? Hope things see going in the right direction for your dd.

Arianrhod Thu 31-Oct-13 16:05:50

Know exactly how you feel pebbles, it still hurts a lot when you walk through somewhere like Sains and see all these cute baby Xmas outfits. And know what you mean about not being able to pay for IVF over and over. Do NewLife at least know what the problem was this time, do you know? Big hugs for you, try to look forward and hope that the New Year will bring a whole new perspective for us all!

I stopped aspirin a while ago, naughty me since I'm supposed to take it for MTHFR anyway, but enough is enough, I still rattle anyway!

AFM, well, sad that I'm still not pregnant and can't even begin looking at doing another cycle until DD is well. Feeling old, and that time may have just passed me by, I know OH thinks he's too old for a baby. DD has good days and bad, but her HSP is still very firmly in place. I know in my rational mind that it's much too early to have gone, she's only had it for 5 weeks and apparently the 'average' if it goes without complications is 3 months. But it's hard, naturally hope rises when she has days that her rash disappears, but then crashes when it all comes back. Half-term has proved that resting helps enormously, but she has to go back to school next week, so I start worrying all over again.

Anyway, enough of me, I'll go back to lurking and rooting for you all!

duggs1976 Thu 31-Oct-13 16:21:37

Ari can I be so bold to ask if DD does recover by early next year for example (which sounds possible from what you've said?) would you try donor egg at serum as next step? What did penny recommend?

duggs1976 Thu 31-Oct-13 16:26:00

Oh and pebbles. Yes wish I was pregnant safely. hmm Not looking forward to Christmas again. I'm seeing dr S on Saturday so I can get some more hydroxy and pred. This last mc was chromosonal but I will ask him if my 2 trisomies at 34 and 36 might be because of the nk cells damaging my eggs? Will also see what he has to say here in autumn 2013. I will then hopefully do an IVF round before Christmas. If that fails or I have another mc then we will have to pay for a last one with my own eggs in the new year. If that fails too or mc then I will seriously consider DE at serum. Will be asking ari about her experiences there. Pebbles could you possibly think about that too ?

duggs1976 Thu 31-Oct-13 16:29:32

Forgot to answer pebbles my AF came back 5 weeks 2 days after my D&C. It always has with all 4 of my D&C's (lucky me). I did take pred this cycle and am on hydroxy. Actually 10dpo is tomorrow but I don't think I'm pregnant that would be just too easy. I will have to go and buy a test though so I can stop the pred.

Mel3062 Thu 31-Oct-13 16:45:25

It's such an unfair tough struggle for everyone and I'm sorry if I seem insensitive at times I am thankful that I haven't required ivf as yet x

duggs1976 Thu 31-Oct-13 18:12:54

Don't be silly mel! This wouldn't be wished on our worst enemies we all know that. I at least have the option of IVF but i have gotten pregnant 5 times naturally (fat lot of use it has done me) so I can't say I am much different!

Pebbles73 Thu 31-Oct-13 18:54:59

Had a consultation with Mr Gafar and he couldn't really say what might have caused but could be a good chance it was chromosomal considering all the immune drugs I was on. Miscarried naturally so no testing.

I know what you mean about feeling old, was talking to a young temp at work who is 18 and she said her mum was 43 and thinking god I am old enough to be her mum and would kill for a grown up daughter....

Anyway I hope your time comes soon Ari and maybe tomorrow will be the year.

Duggs hope you get to start the ivf soon and even better that you are already pregnant!

If this last frozen one doesn't work then I think de at Serum will be our next option, they sound great from everything Ari had said. I just don't think we can justify another 9-10k round of ivf for the same thing to happen.

Mel if you can get pregnant naturally or not you are still having a crap time with multiple miscarriage. Please don't feel bad although will admit I am a little jealous of you ladies who get pregnant naturally, would love to experience it just once!

Anyway happy Halloween everyone, I am off out for a few glasses of wine thlgrin

Arianrhod Thu 31-Oct-13 22:09:30

duggs My last cycle was DE at Serum - and I cannot recommend them, and Penny, highly enough. The fact that not only do they tailor your treatment to you as an individual, rather than a standard protocol, but also they seem to genuinely care about you. I honestly couldn't recommend them more. Assuming I can do another cycle it will have to be DD this time, as my immune system is just too damn aggressive and will always kill off anything with OH's DNA in it. sad

mel You're in no way being insensitive .. as pebbles says you're going through just as cr@ppy a time as any of us. It's hell that any of us have to repeatedly go through what we do, yet we still pick ourselves up each and every time and try again.

Mel3062 Fri 01-Nov-13 13:06:48

Thanks ladies. My rmc consultant has had the results from prof quenby ( she suggested I see her) and she's told me to continue 5 mg folic acid and thyroxine as they have dif role and don't affect endometrium. She's told me to try whilst it all looks good!

duggs1976 Sun 03-Nov-13 17:10:56

Thanks Ari! That is very good and comforting to know. I know we will take this serum route if things don't work out with us with the next 2 IVF attempts. Next stop is app 21 nov and hopefully I can start the end of this month... How is everyone doing ?

Pebbles73 Tue 05-Nov-13 13:33:02

Good luck Mel!

Hooray af arrived today! Means I can now plan for treatment, would be nice to start straight away. Need scratch at end of month and would start treatment on next af but think it will all fall to close to Xmas and I onus my Nhs clinics d

Pebbles73 Tue 05-Nov-13 13:33:42

Don't let you cycle at that time so will need to check with NLC.

Mel3062 Tue 05-Nov-13 18:45:34

Good luck pebbles smile
Please can anyone help with my results? Hubby's says scanty white blood cells, no growth or organisms seen is that good??mycoplasma and ureaplasm a negative.
As for me:50.1: 20.7
25.1: 13.4
12.5:1 : 10.1
Ivig 12.5 mg 50.1:18.4
Ivig 12.5 25:1 : 11.3
Intralipid 1.5 50.1: 16:2
Intralipid 1:5 25:1 : 11.2
Cd3 : 76:5
Cd19: 2.5
Cd56 : 20 h ( in red)
Cd19+ cd5 7.7
Tnf: 28.2
Ifn cd 3 and 4: 7:7
Lad results :
Flowcytometry negetive
T cells igm 2.1
B cells igm 7:0
T cells igg 3.4
B cells igg 9:0
Any clue?? I assume I have to wait still for hubby's lad result x

Arianrhod Wed 06-Nov-13 09:54:57

mel You won't get LAD results for your DH, LAD is simply about your body's reaction to his DNA. The problem with LAD is apparently that if you haven't been recently pregnant to past the first trimester, it's supposed to be low, although some people like Dr G always want LIT treatment whenever they see low LAD. I had even lower LAD results than you!

Can I suggest that you post your results on FF, I'd suggest the 'Immune Issuess & Investigations' board, so that you can get the benefit of the fabulous Agate's advice? She knows so very much about these results, what they all mean, what likely treatment would be etc; I for one would only be guessing if I tried to work them out!

pebbles Excellent news that your AF has turned up, best of luck for your next try!

/waves to everyone

Arianrhod Wed 06-Nov-13 09:58:36

mel forgot to ask, did you get DQa tested? And doh, of course I typed the wrong thing above, I was thinking of DQa when I typed that! It doesn't of course test your body's reaction to your DH's DNA, it tests for antibody reactions to proteins from DH.

Arianrhod Wed 06-Nov-13 10:16:29

mel If it helps you at all, a lady posted yesterday with similar-ish LAD results to yours (think hers were a tiny bit lower but not enough to be significantly different), and Agate's reply to her was this:

<quote>
unless you have had several miscarriages/been pregnant past first trimester recently, its not possible to know if your low LAD is normal. It PROBABLY is and it PROBABLY doesn't need treating with LIT
</quote>

That's just for the LAD bit - you still need someone knowledgable to comment on the rest of it smile

Mel3062 Wed 06-Nov-13 14:18:55

Thanks ari I can't even compare them to mr s results!

Arianrhod Wed 06-Nov-13 15:08:44

No, unfortunately his are in a completely different format sad

duggs1976 Fri 08-Nov-13 08:49:31

Ari - quick question about donor eggs at serum! Did I read correctly about a cycle where they stimulate you and an Egg donor and then they can put the best embryos from both cycles back? Or have I got that wrong? X

brownstag Fri 08-Nov-13 09:26:10

But then how would you know which it was if you got a BFP? I read on the surrogacy website that in the UK where you have male gay couples, you're not allowed to use a mixture of both sperm on a given cycle to try to inseminate the donor egg, and wouldn't that be the same kind of thing?

duggs1976 Fri 08-Nov-13 09:38:27

Perhaps it was that that both you and the ED were cycled and the best embryos selected? Can't remember ? Was in Greece so different laws I presume ?!

Arianrhod Fri 08-Nov-13 10:11:05

duggs - yes, they can do that, that's an OE/DE cycle. brown you wouldn't, but most ladies don't seem to mind. Remember that the rules for the UK and for other countries can be very different. I can, if I want, choose to have a mix of OH's and a donor's sperm fertilise donor eggs - the thought being then that you wouldn't know, and therefore the child could still be your OH's. Some people want that psychological possibility. It isn't an option for me personally, as I would know - my body kills off anything with OH's DNA in it anyway.

Arianrhod Fri 08-Nov-13 10:12:13

I believe you can do it either way - both you and the donor are cycled and the best embryos are chosen. The clinic know which is which, obviously, and you are always involved in the choices so it would never be unknown to you as to what would be put back.

brownstag Fri 08-Nov-13 12:52:37

Interesting. *Ari8, how much did your total IVF cycle, accommodation, flight, etc. cost at Serum? When we last saw my NHS consultant, he recommended IVF. DH still hasn't agreed by a long chalk but I really want a single go and am saving like mad. Presumably they are prepared to put back more embryos than in the UK? i.e. 3 instead of 1 or 2?

Arianrhod Fri 08-Nov-13 15:20:12

Yes brown, I had 3 embryos put back myself. I'm at work at the moment but I'll dig out the costs tonight - although bear in mind that different people need different meds, and that changes the total pricing. The base cost for DE IVF is €5000, then add on for meds and airfare/accommodation. If you have an aquascan, which Penny usually recommends to see what the state of your uterus is, that's €200. If you have to have an hysteroscopy (with implantation cuts, they always do those) that's another €1500.

brownstag Fri 08-Nov-13 16:13:29

Thanks, Ari. As it would probably be only the one go, I'd like them to shove as many in as they feasibly can. I can't decide whether to go to serum would be best, or my local clinic in Tunbridge Wells. I'm sure it's relatively much more expensive at the latter, but I'm thinking so much less stressful to hop on the bus than a plane.

Buzzybee123 Fri 08-Nov-13 17:36:11

brown I found clinics in the UK were around £7,000 for DE, I'm pretty sure that is what Care charge, my overseas ivf + all costs for travel accommodation etc cost us £5200, they do DE/OE/DD and embryo adoption, they don't actually do immunes but will support you with your immune protocol, they will do intralipids for 100 euros

brownstag Fri 08-Nov-13 17:41:14

Thanks. That's a big saving. I would try my own eggs though. I'm interested to see what happens, eggwise, if anything. Probably nothing at all. Had you had 'ordinary' IVF before using donor eggs?

Buzzybee123 Fri 08-Nov-13 19:41:33

no I didn't, I looked into it, it does vary from clinic to clinic here but around £5-6000 is about average for oe ivf here, not sure where you are in the country

Arianrhod Fri 08-Nov-13 21:27:57

Just a quickie, brown, OE cost at Serum is €3000.

Mel3062 Sat 09-Nov-13 04:31:33

Good luck brown
Apparently agate says I have low lad so yey looks like lit treatment ;( and high nk cells which surprised me as uterus is ok so wonder how it compares to last years. Umm time to see mr g I guess and see what he suggests though then with steroids I risk uteris going high again unless I stay off the vitamins, having a awful time at school too parents are slating me on a public forum sad

brownstag Sat 09-Nov-13 08:35:32

Thanks Ari and Buzzy, I just emailed serum and they replied. Ari, will you be eligible for a reduced fee for a second IVF? Serum say €3000 for one cycle but €4000 for 2 if within a year. Also they can do immunes incidentally.
Mel, how very stressful. Are the parents naming you? Couldn't that be slander?

Mel3062 Sat 09-Nov-13 10:00:59

Yes got named but not my Christian name. I'm really upset by it all sad in fact I get referred by just my last name at times sad

suemays Sat 09-Nov-13 10:31:41

Mel thats so rude of the mums! Even though I have issues with one of the teaching staff at DDs school I would never publicly slate her! I would stop reading the forum if I were you - not worth the upset as they sound like bullies.

Brown a lot of the UK IVF clinics won't charge you for a full IVF cycle if it's cancelled due to poor response (as in my case). Not sure if the ones overseas do the same. I just paid for consultations, scans and the drugs plus IUI which was my choice. I can't see the point in trying IVF again in my case if they only get 1 or 2 eggs as that would be no different to a super ovulation cycle or clomid. We don't have any known probs with DH so that would be a different scenario if we didn't conceive naturally. Remind me again, have you tried SO?

I found IVF a total waste of time and money but then at least you know you would have tried it as everyone responds differently to the drugs. I mistakingly thought IVF would be the answer to all my probs as would have gone for CGH testing so was shocked when I didnt respond well. They can generally tell how well you will respond by the AMH and antral follicle count so I dont know if you have had those done?

brownstag Sat 09-Nov-13 10:34:22

I'm sure you are upset. I'm finding the start of school for my son stressful enough so I can't imagine what it's like for you, with all the responsibility, and so little appreciation. Are you being supported by your fellow teachers and union if necessary?

Mel3062 Sat 09-Nov-13 10:47:48

Thing is I've had these children last year too and had parents eve this week and none of this was mentioned they were lovely ! Sue I understand that we get disagreed with and talked about its part of the territory but if I slated the children or parents like that I'd get sacked! We all main to others ;) And Im sure you take your concern out with those involved not as a public view sad yes head supportive, may have to get union in but I think if they know I've seen it they may just be embarrassed! Some nasty things said and untrue things also sad

Mel3062 Sat 09-Nov-13 11:49:23

Hi ladies your help is invaluable just got these can anyone help as to what it means and treatment?
Dq alpha 0102, 0201
Kir
Inhibitory 2dl1
2dl2*001/2/3/5
2dl3
2dl4
3dl1
3dl2
3dl3
Activating 2ds2
2ds4* 00103
2ds4*003/4/6/7/8/9
Hubby dqa alpha 0101, 0303

Mel3062 Sat 09-Nov-13 14:20:05

Agate says it's also come back that I have some match with hubby and missing kir activators which may rise them so think I'll need neupogen, lit treatment and intralipids etc best get saving again!!

brownstag Sat 09-Nov-13 17:05:32

Sue, yes it would almost certainly be throwing my money away, as I have dreadful AMH, but I just don't want to regret not having done it. I have done 4 cycles of Clomid (all BFNs) and 4 cycles of letrozole (1 BFP). I need the higher dose of letrozole as I only produced 1 egg on the standard dose, so I suspect I wouldn't respond particularly well to the IVF drugs.
Did you have an antral follicle count done and if so, did it tally with your AMH? And have you tried the Clomid yet?
Mel, try to rise above it. Very hard, I know, as it's the kind of thing I would personally obsess about in the small hours. I get really upset about anything like that! Just remember that all the important people are behind you.

brownstag Sun 10-Nov-13 11:01:19

Has anyone else had an antral follicle count done that conflicted with their FSH or AMH results? Clutching at straws here ...

Buzzybee123 Sun 10-Nov-13 14:51:00

brown my lh was 3.6 my fsh was around 9 my amh was 1.1 and mt afc was 6, I have no idea if they stacked up

brownstag Sun 10-Nov-13 15:36:09

That's interesting, Buzzy, thanks. Well, your FSH was good but AMH bad (like me the last time I was tested - FSH 9.7 and AMH 1.04), and your antral follicle count was a bit better than suggested by your AMH, which is encouraging to me. How old are you, if you don't mind my asking?

Mel3062 Sun 10-Nov-13 16:02:24

Ladies who have had lit. Can it be done on Saturdays? Would hubby need to come every time? He's had blood taken a week ago. It's just with Xmas coming hubby can't get time off x

suemays Sun 10-Nov-13 21:01:50

My AMH was an awful 0.57, Fsh was 6.9 but then I was having acupuncture every week which lowers it. Low amh is more of a problem if you are having ivf as it normally means you won't respond well to drugs. You can still conceive naturally with a low amh although the egg quality might be rubbish!

suemays Sun 10-Nov-13 21:04:10

I haven't had lit so can't answer your question mel. I think belly had similar amh levels to me.

suemays Sun 10-Nov-13 21:11:14

I did have an antral follicle count but wasn't told what it was at the time! I haven't tried clomid yet but have done 3 cycles of letrozole and conceived on all 3 but two ended in chemicals and one in miscarriage. That's why I thought I would try clomid as it works differently to letrozole. With regards to low amh, I was told by zita west that they have stopped testing it now as it was inconclusive and didn't tally up with antral follicle counts. I found that very reassuring!

Buzzybee123 Sun 10-Nov-13 21:11:33

brown I am 40, I tried SO with 450mls of gonal f and produced 4 follies

Arianrhod Mon 11-Nov-13 09:51:32

Crikey this thread moves fast sometimes! smile

mel I'm so sorry you've read bad things from some parents. I will say in my experience (from the parent's perspective) that some parents just like to whinge. I've found at DD's school, I will think everything's wonderful and great with her teacher and then be totally surprised to hear one or two parents in our year (who are generally really nice people) complaining about things that had never even occurred to me and I don't see as a problem at all. I think some people just like to complain/make trouble/have something or someone to whinge about. Try not to take it personally, and stay off that forum!

Interesting chats about IVF and responses. I can't comment on AFC vs AMH/FSH because my AFC was checked right at the start of my RMC investigations with Mr S and he said it was good (for my age presumably), but FSH wasn't tested until I think 8 months later and AMH has never been tested.

brown As far as I'm aware you don't get charged by Serum for cancelled cycles, and I can't do the package IVF deal as I'm using DE not OE, I think that '€4000 for 2 cycles in a year' is OE only.

With stimms bear in mind that clinics do things differently. I can't say what will definitely happen, obviously, but I know of several ladies who were at other clinics before they went to Serum and expressed surprise that on Serum's protocol for them they responded much better than they had at their previous clinics. I'd say the more info about previous history they can have, the better they can tailor your protocol to you personally.

mel I have had LIT, but it was at Serum (obviously) not over here. With that DH only had to go with me the once, they stored (froze I think) his blood for the second LIT. Missing KIR receptors - yes, that would be neupogen then. Welcome to the club! smile I don't know if I have missing KIR receptors or not, but I'm on neupogen anyway. It will be interesting to hear what Mr G says.

/waves to everyone

Mel3062 Mon 11-Nov-13 18:46:02

Thanks please can you tell me more about neopegen?
Got a meeting tomorrow with parents, I'd be sacked if I did that! Governors bought me a bouquet which was nice x

Mel3062 Mon 11-Nov-13 18:46:54

I understand people moan but when they publicaly talk about getting me out it becomes a different matter! X

Pebbles73 Mon 11-Nov-13 20:17:49

Sorry you are having a crap time of it at the mo Mel and hope you get it sorted soon.

All the donor egg ivf talk is very interesting.

Waves to all.

Mel3062 Tue 12-Nov-13 19:51:57

Thanks I had some apologies today from those involved
Got the DNA fragmentation back please can anyone tell me if treatment is poss and what it will be?
Dfi- 39.1%
Hds- 15.5% = fair to poor integrity sad is this meaning poor sperm quality?

duggs1976 Tue 12-Nov-13 22:21:27

Ok mel.
Firstly you usually can improve this.
DFI over 25 percent is not good. Over 30 and there is low chance of live birth. My DH had 33 percent last aug 2012 & tested positive for a hidden urinary tract infection. A mth of strong dr g prescribed anti biotics and it came down to 22 by sep and 15.1 by jan 2013. Under 15 is excellent to good. it should say on attached sheet.
His hds was 4.8 anything under 25 percent is ok.

duggs1976 Tue 12-Nov-13 22:22:53

I also read up and visited zita west for antioxidants etc and he takes them now and eats tomato purée and olive oil lots of colourful veggies and fruit!

Mel3062 Wed 13-Nov-13 06:47:47

Thanks duggs that's how I understood it. This will upset him It was bad enough when he took antiobiotics for serum tests. Umm i think he'd best come with me to mr g follow up then so he can hear it from mr g himself sad
Interesting what you said about infection as hubby was in hosp with one so wonder if there's some still lurking though he was on antibiotic drip.
He's been on Marilyn Gardner vits and wellman before so hel be taking them again!!
Will he have to go through doing another sample?? Hel hate that sad

brownstag Wed 13-Nov-13 07:39:47

I just thought I'd share this info with you that I got from Serum. I can't believe how much time they are spending with me answering my questions when I'm not even a patient of theirs yet; they are amazing. I asked them about the effect of stimulation drugs on egg quality and they said:

'There was a study done a couple of years ago where they tried to compare groups of women with very similar characteristics, some of whom did minimal stimulation and some who did high stimulation. They checked the embryos for chromosomal problems using PGD, and the high stimulation group showed higher rates of aneuploidy (embryos with the wrong number of chromosomes) than the minimal stimulation group - but whether any of the errors found were triploidies, I'm sorry but I don't know.

We keep it in mind though, and we find with women who have a low response to stimulation, we see at least as good a pregnancy rate (often a better pregnancy rate) when we don't stimulate as when we use stimulation.

Another recent study didn't look at aneuploidies but just compared the pregnancy rates for older women with poor ovarian reserve using either a conventional (high dose) stimulation or a lower dose mixed protocol (clomid and FSH). The lower dose group had a significantly better pregnancy rate.

There is a lot that we don't know, but we do think that, particularly for some women, it is better to be cautious with the stimulation that we use and that the the stimulation protocol can have an affect on the egg quality and the implantation environment.'

This is interesting, as my NHS consultant told me that if I had treatment at the local private clinic they would use the maximum dose of FSH with me, and I'm wondering if that would be helpful after all.
Also, in case you're wondering about letrozole, she told me that would be considered mild stimulation, and therefore less of a risk to egg quality than high-dose stims.

Arianrhod Wed 13-Nov-13 16:23:54

That is interesting brown, and ties in with what I've read from women who've gone to Serum after doing IVF at other clinics and had better rates of embryos there on milder stims than they'd had at their other clinics. Is it Penny you're speaking to? I found, like you, when I was only going through them just for hidden infection testing, she was fantastic at answering questions even though then I couldn't imagine being able to do IVF. She works incredibly long days too, I've been on the phone with her before now at 10:30pm our time - I think Greece is 2 hours ahead. She also gave me her personal mobile and home phone numbers, and told me to call her at any time.

mel Great to hear you got apologies, and interesting what you're seeing with hubby's sperm results. duggs is the expert on that, as she's been through all this. What would you like to know about neupogen?

Mel3062 Wed 13-Nov-13 16:57:56

Just what it involves ari please, I know nothing about it!

suemays Wed 13-Nov-13 17:30:33

brown thanks for the info. I have wondered if the high stimulation effects egg quality so it's reassuring to know there has been research done on it. Another reason for me to not try another cycle of ivf but use clomid or letrozole!

brownstag Thu 14-Nov-13 11:53:12

Just got my DHEA results: 610. The German lab that did them say these are in range (150 to 620) but everything I've googled suggests this is in fact high for a woman. Anyone else had their DHEA tested? I've only been taking 12.5mg so I dread to think what it was on 75mg, which I took for 7 months. What is really odd is that my hair has been getting thicker. I've got new hair at the roots. Presumably the oestrogen component.

Arianrhod Thu 14-Nov-13 12:54:15

I've had my DHEA tested brown but different range to the test you had done. I'm actually low - DHEA mean across 2 samples was 0.13 nmol/L where the ref. range is 0.30-1.00 and ideally you should be at 1.00. But mine are apparently tied to adrenal problems; I'm apparently in 'pre-adrenal exhaustion' state with low cortisol and DHEA results but high cortisol before bedtime which messes up my sleep (I wake up on and off throughout the night, much like being on pred).

It's a bit laughable when I consider I was worried while I was taking DHEA in case I was overdoing it. I now take 7-keto (so I avoid the hormone-altering aspect of DHEA).

What will you do then, stop taking DHEA as you're obviously not low on it?

Arianrhod Thu 14-Nov-13 12:59:00

mel Neupogen - well, for a start, it's bl**dy expensive; I think 5 vials would have set me back about £300 if I'd bought it here, a vial lasted me I think about 6 days. Standard dosing seems to be 1mcg/kg body weight; I think Mr G may prescribe higher, possibly 1.5mcg/kg. It's an injection; Serum provide a Puregon pen for this which makes injecting it a whole heap easier (this is the same sort of device as for the SO trigger shot if you've done that). If you don't have the pen then you can do it with a insulin syringe (very thin syringes) with ultra-fine needles. One injection every day. Neupogen increases your white blood cell count (off the scale for NHS testing, they do tend to get a bit twitchy if they look at your blood test results smile ) which in turn suppresses the killer cells. It's quite difficult to get hold of at times; Asda and apparently Superdrug are the cheapest, but my Asda couldn't get hold of it for me and I ended up buying mine when I was out at Serum, with a backup of Central Homecare (where Mr S uses for his SO drugs) being about £40 more expensive than Asda. Think Asda it was £263 for 5 vials.

Mel3062 Thu 14-Nov-13 17:47:46

Oh my days thanks ari how long do you have to have neopegen for? Starting when? Umm I'd def need a plunger rather than needle! Going to see dr g Saturday, sooner I go sooner I can start treatment ;)

Arianrhod Thu 14-Nov-13 18:07:33

I'm not sure how long Mr G's protocol has you on neupogen. Serum had me on it for just over 2 weeks before ET and then up to I think 12 or 16 weeks, I didn't get that far.

I would say that the insulin syringes with a very fine needle is really easy to use; if you go for something like a 31G they really don't hurt. And I am the world's biggest wuss when it comes to needles and pain! smile

You should keep an eye on your WBC, having it tested every so often to make sure the count is neither too high nor too low to be effective.

Mel3062 Thu 14-Nov-13 19:49:52

Yikes hope I won't need that then, don't think I'll tell hubby that bit ;)

Arianrhod Fri 15-Nov-13 10:07:57

If you have missing KIR receptors I would guess that it's possible you will be pxd neupogen ... ready that credit card! smile

Mel3062 Sat 16-Nov-13 15:19:11

Well ladies just on way back from dr g. Hubby is armed with 2 month supply of proxeed antidoxiants bless him, hel prob need a retest too. As for me I've got to ring mon to get a lit appointment but can use hubby's blood. Dr g said after that ill prob have an intralipid each month then when I conceive I'll need a blast of ivig and neopegen ouch!! Back to saving. Happy weekend x

Mel3062 Sat 16-Nov-13 16:16:44

Why would you need neopegen and ivig and lit? It just sounds like they all do similar?

Arianrhod Mon 18-Nov-13 11:30:56

mel Well you have to remember that not all things work for all people. LIT does something very different to IVIG, it works on your antibodies whereas IVIG works on suppressing your NK cells. Neupogen works differently again to increase your white blood cells which in their own turn stop so many NK cells being formed. They all work in different ways, basically.

Mel3062 Mon 18-Nov-13 17:47:39

Thanks ari feel much better now. Fingers crossed this is my answer, certainly doing all I can now! X

Mel3062 Wed 20-Nov-13 17:03:05

Yikes having lit on Monday, hubby being screened Saturday. Waving to all x

lemonsherbet Wed 20-Nov-13 20:41:23

good luck with the LIT.

Mel3062 Thu 21-Nov-13 05:49:45

Thanks lemon can't say I'm looking forward to it, how are you? X

lemonsherbet Sat 23-Nov-13 13:27:56

I am good Mel thanks for asking. Just got a sore throat atm so feeling sorry for myself. Hope the LIT went OK.

lemonsherbet Wed 27-Nov-13 20:36:55

Didn't mean to kill the thread! Hope everyone is OK

Mel3062 Thu 28-Nov-13 07:15:20

I know it's gone quiet sad lit was ok thanks just very hot, itchy sore and swollen at mo but that's the side effects and hope til be worth it!

Arianrhod Thu 28-Nov-13 10:56:17

lol You didn't kill the thread lemon. I haven't said anything 'cos I haven't got anything going on at the moment, just waiting for DD to get better before I can think of figuring out how to get the money for another cycle.

mel That's interesting, I didn't have any of that when I had LIT done. Does Mr G do it the same way as Serum, I wonder - one injection in 4 sites, being top of both arms and both buttocks? I think you can take an anti-inflammatory like ibuprofen to help if it's too swollen/sore.

Mel3062 Thu 28-Nov-13 17:56:36

Ooh no I had about 15 injections in each forearm not in buttocks!

Arianrhod Fri 29-Nov-13 11:37:21

Oh crikey, no wonder you're hurting!!! Think I'll stick to Serum's way of doing it smile

suemays Mon 02-Dec-13 10:12:58

pebbles have been trying to pm you, not sure if you have got it??

Mel3062 Mon 02-Dec-13 18:22:08

Interestingly because I'm on thyroxine from recurrent miscarriage consultant at epu it entitles me to free prescription card!!

Arianrhod Tue 03-Dec-13 08:31:08

Absolutely correct mel - I also have this, because I'm hypothyroid. Interestingly though I've since found that I'm in stage 3 of adrenal fatigue, and one of the thing adrenal problems can do is cause you to go hypothyroid. Apparently once the adrenals are fixed it's possible for the thyroid to go back to normal. So if I ever manage to figure out how to fix my adrenal issues, I'll be interested to see if it does help my thyroid as well.

It's all a bit of a minefield, this health business ..

/waves to everyone, hope you're all ok, everyone's very quiet?

Mel3062 Wed 04-Dec-13 09:37:48

Wow something for nothing! Is it just free prescriptions? Or eye tests, dental etc? I'm only on it as part of tablet trial I'm not sure what my thyroid results were x

Mel3062 Wed 04-Dec-13 09:38:24

Niece is pregnant and a friend is, it's so hard seeing scan pics on Facebook sad

Arianrhod Fri 06-Dec-13 14:58:26

It's just prescriptions mel. And you should ask for your thyroid results, if you can, so you can keep track as you have repeat tests.

swlondonnanny Fri 13-Dec-13 09:55:06

Interesting Ari how did they find out / check for the adrenal fatigue? That what my acupuncturist claims as well - that if adrenals are not working properly it makes thyroid worse. Was taking some suplements for adrenals and was told to take much less medication for my thyroid... So that would support that theory I would say...
Also wanted to ask anyone who had a hysteroscopy done - how long afterwards did you keep spotting? And how long did you wait with DTD . Had mine done yesterday - just when my EWCM started!!! Don't want to miss this month but it doesn't feel right to DTD while spotting either...

Arianrhod Fri 13-Dec-13 13:52:52

'They' didn't, swlondon ... in my many readings on thyroid issues, I saw recommended that you get adrenals tested as they are closely interlinked. So I got in touch with one of the labs recommended on the TUK website (you get a discount) and ordered an adrenal testing kit - if you're interested I'll dig you out the contact details.

Hysteroscopy - I was told to wait to DTD until I'd completely stopped bleeding, as while you're still bleeding your cervix is still open and you could end up with an infection. Ditto to baths and swimming, no-go until you completely stop bleeding. For me I think I spotted for a couple of weeks after both hystos.

swlondonnanny Sat 14-Dec-13 13:40:29

Thank you Ari, if you could find those details for adrenal testing kit I would really appreciate it. Had quite a few test done 6 or 7 years ago - usually quite a low lever of cortisol ( but within normal range) - would be good to see how it is now. Do you remember what the kit tested for?
Looks like I stopped spotting last night so pleased with it as it looks like I am ovulating today. So all good.
If I can ask how long did you have problems with your thyroid? I was diagnosed when I was 8 so 30 years now...

Arianrhod Mon 16-Dec-13 08:17:52

swlondon The 24-hour saliva test is through Geneva Diagnostics, called the Adrenal Stress Profile test - details at http://www.gdx.net/product/10198 . There is also an Adrenal Stress Plus profile which tests for other things too, but I didn't get this as I found the standard test covers everything I needed. Email to kitorders@GDX.net which goes to a very helpful chap called Paul Eaton (also at PEaton@gdx.net), You get a discount for mentioning Thyroid Patient Advocacy UK, but you have to email to order the kit rather than going through the online site. I just emailed and said...

"I am advised by Thyroid Patient Advocacy UK, of which I am a member, that I can order a discounted 24 hour adrenal stress profile (discounted cost of £63.75) through you. They advise me to order direct through this email address, and not through the web site.

Can you tell me please how to pay for this? My practitioner is, of course, ‘Thyroid Patient Advocacy UK'."

... and then gave my address for the kit to be sent to. They send you the kit first, then when you send it back for processing you send the payment with it.

Turnaround is very quick, I think I got the result report sent back within a couple of days.

HTH!

Arianrhod Mon 16-Dec-13 08:34:52

Whoops .. it's "Genova", not "Geneva". Brain's asleep!

Pebbles73 Mon 16-Dec-13 20:43:20

Thought I would just pop on and say hi, lost the thread for ages and ended up googling it! How is everybody doing?

Not much berm happening with me on treatment front, having a scratch done at beggining of Jan and then straight into starting frozen embryo cycle.

Mel3062 Thu 19-Dec-13 05:12:47

Good luck pebbles. I'm having second lot of lit therapy to morrow x hope 2014 is a good year for us all x

duggs1976 Thu 19-Dec-13 08:30:43

Hello ladies hope everyone is doing as well as us lot on here can do with all this that we carry around. Update from my side. Had the ivf cycle at Hammersmith. Actually quite impressed with them surprisingly. Anyway used same stim protocol as last time 18 mths ago. Responded well got 16 eggs (19 last time). Used ICSI as was planning on doing Chromosonal testing. 11 fertalised. By day 3 10 were doing well all between 6 and 9 cells. One was just a 6. So they decided for a day 5 or 6 transfer depending on genetic testing possibility which is dependent on how many blastyocycts there are on day 5 ( must be more than 3). Day 5 only 3 slowly developing embryos left, just a stage behind blastyocyct. Told to come in for transfer. Went in and only 1 had progressed since the morning check. They put it back with one of the others that hadn't moved and the third was left as wasn't good enough to freeze.

SO.... All in all not great. I don't hold out much hope tbh, but embryologist did comment on good egg harvest and development until day 3 doesn't usually indicate an egg issue, after day 3 the sperm DNA kicks in and here is where they fell off the cliff. She also noted abnormally high number with a hole in their head (sperms) so recommended DH get re checked for DNA fragmentation. He had this done and infection fixed but last test was in January.

Nothing to do with immunes at this stage and seemingly egg qua
It's either. So now DH has booked to see an andrologist week after next.

At least we have some info gained from this cycle.

I am not wondering whether to book ARGC app in which won't come until mid feb prob starting in April or whether to go straight to serum in Athens as I've been reading how much they focus on sperm issues and you can do a DNA fragmentation test of the sperm sample there and then and make informed decisions that way?

Really not sure. Guess we need to wait to see if a) I get pg and then wait for a mc. b) what comes up from the andrologist test.

But still any thoughts as I don't seem to have an issue with me stimulating and the immunes are covered with intrallipids, hydroxy and high dose pred ( I don't need humira or ivig as had those tests).

Sorry for long ramble. Wish people would look at men more consistently throughout all this. Juggling issue after issue. Deep sigh.

Just eaten chocolate father Christmas thatbive bough bunch of for friends kids. 2 are down already since Monday sad

brownstag Thu 19-Dec-13 09:05:23

Interesting Duggs and good luck with this cycle. It does seem as if it's more likely to be a sperm problem, but with IVF, aren't they choosing the best ones? Or can they not guarantee they are normal by just looking? I take it your OH wouldn't consider donor sperm in the worst-case scenario?
If the issue is sperm, it would explain why all these many different treatments you've had don't seem to make any difference.

Arianrhod Thu 19-Dec-13 09:42:04

duggs Interesting to hear what's been happening, and of course I hope that you're lucky with this cycle and don't need to think about going anywhere else.

I'm completely with you on wishing more clinics put equal emphasis on the male factor. So many of us could be having miscarriages due to the male side of things and not know about it, especially if we have issues of our own. It seems to me that when something is found from the female side of things, everyone seems to assume that's it, that's the only problem, when in fact it may well be a male problem too. As brown says, perhaps this may be why that no matter how many treatments you've had, it just hasn't worked so far anyway?

Re Serum - yes, they will test then and there, and if the sperm isn't up to the task they always have frozen donor sperm that they can then use if it's agreed upon. I know of some ladies who had EC, OH's sperm was tested and wasn't great so they used sometimes just DS and sometimes half-and-half to fertilise. I like the fact that they can do it in-house. In fact I think Penny tested OH's sperm for free when we were there, as we'd had it tested (and found to be all ok) a few months previously but she wanted to know the latest state so when we said we didn't really want to pay to get it done again, I believe she told the lab to test it anyway so that she would know it was ok right then, and didn't charge us for it. I like that approach smile

/waves to everyone, hope you're all doing well.

Pebbles73 Thu 19-Dec-13 20:29:33

Hope it goes ok Mel, are you ttc at the moment or do you have to wait until after the lit?

Was wondering how you were getting on Duggs and sorry you didn't get many make it to day five. I think from what I have been told its always a bit of a risk waiting until day 5 anyway as sometimes none of them make it. The fact that the ones you have put back got to day 5 is a good start and no reason it shouldn't work. Will pm you.

Very interesting though about the sperm dna kicking in on day three and meaning your eggs should be healthy. I was beginning to think mine weren't but maybe is not the case. Although when we had icsi they were quite happy with the sperm. It's such a minefield I just don't know anymore! Anyway keeping everything crossed for you.xx

Waves to everyone and as Mel said hoping 2014 is better for us all.

How is your daughter doing Ari ?

Arianrhod Thu 19-Dec-13 21:29:56

Amen to that pebbles.

Thanks for asking, trouble is I don't know. Just when I think she's getting better, something happens and her symptoms come right back. She's almost completely symptom free again at the moment, but that's probably because she's been resting for the past few days (any physical activity makes her illness worse). I have absolutely no clue where we are with this illness, and no-one else knows either. Which means I have no idea about doing another cycle, and OH is still saying nothing about it either.

Here's to 2014 being a darn sight better for all of us!

duggs1976 Fri 20-Dec-13 04:57:19

Awake 40mg pred insomnia hmm
Pebbles the DNA integrity of sperm can't be seen by microscope so embryologist said it is all visual so unless he has had the dye test you won't really know. I notice even new life test for this now ( or did I imagine this?) if this fails I don't see the point in more IVF for us unless his sperm fragmentation improves if that is the issue again? He hAs andrologists App for 30 dec. so bored of all this crap. Serum is looking like our next stop as Ari said penny tests it there and then. Thanks ari for info. Hope rest of you doing ok. . ?Hope bleeding has subsided before your scan next week !

duggs1976 Fri 20-Dec-13 04:59:00

Sorry that last bit is nothing to do with this thread is other one that I dip in and out of!

duggs1976 Fri 20-Dec-13 04:59:14

Pred one!

duggs1976 Fri 20-Dec-13 05:00:28

Ari on your side r u thinking back to serum with donor embryo?

Arianrhod Fri 20-Dec-13 10:05:51

duggs I know exactly what you mean about being so damn bored of all this cr@p. I can't believe this has gone on for so very long, we've all done all of this stuff to our bodies, and still nothing to show for it. There are times I swear when I think that's enough, it's too late now. Even DD has started saying she doesn't want a little brother or sister anymore, and I think, well with OH not wanting a child either, from what I can tell since he never talks about it, then what's the bl**dy point? Sigh.

Yes it will be donor embryo and donor sperm duggs ... this has all taken so damn long that I no longer believe my own eggs will be any good, and my body has proven again and again that it won't tolerate anything with OH's DNA. So, double donor for us. IF we go again. I still don't have the money and as I say, OH seems totally disinterested.

Merry Crimbo! smile

Mel3062 Sat 21-Dec-13 06:42:05

So sorry to hear that duggs, my hubby has been given proxeed supplement for his sperm, you can buy it on amazon.
Ari it's so hard. My hubby sat looking at how much we've spent so far and nothing to show for it so I'm not sure hel let me keep going for long. My 19 year old is not that supportive either, it's very difficult.
Pebbles we didn't really try last month though Dtd a few times. I should wait until I have blood results back i guess to see if lit has helped ( god I hope so) not having that until 4 weeks or so. I think wel probably still Dtd though and just hope for best.
Good luck to everyone in 2014 x

Mel3062 Sat 21-Dec-13 06:43:06

Can we just cancel Xmas? My mum has decided to break her hip and has been in hospital 2 weeks I'm exhausted!! X

Mel3062 Sat 21-Dec-13 06:49:47

Ari did lit help you at all?

Arianrhod Sat 21-Dec-13 21:31:39

Oh no mel, how awful! So sorry to hear about your mum.

No, I'm afraid LIT did nothing for me - but you have to remember that we have a 100% DQa match and after 6 miscarriages, as it was before our IVF cycle with LIT, my already over-active immune system was extremely fired up against anything with my OH's DNA in it. I don't think LIT could ever have made a difference for us, and even Penny said it was a difficult case and may not work - and she's usually super-positive. You no doubt don't have the same issue that we do. I hope not, anyway!

suemays Sun 22-Dec-13 01:09:35

Hi ladies just got in from a late night out so thought I would post my news. Got the results back from the Erpc and I miscarried a little boy who had downs. I also went to see mr s this week to get some more hydroxy and he told me the food poisoning I got in September probably contributed to the miscarriage. I am glad in a way that i was spared the decision of keeping the pregnancy or not again if it had reached 12 weeks. Brings it home when you find out the sex.
I was annoyed with nlc that I had to pay a new patient fee instead of a follow up (£100 more) as I haven't seen mr s in over a year. It's their policy apparently even though they still have all my notes and know me well. I challenged it but they refused to budge. Very surprising considering how long the miscarriage process is for some of us especially if you don't fall pregnant quickly. So take note ladies if you haven't been back for a while even if you have been in touch with Louise.
Its hard enough to keep going without having the need to question expensive fees! I too am bored of the whole situation.

brownstag Sun 22-Dec-13 08:37:04

I totally understand what you're feeling about your ERPC results, Sue. That was my situation exactly. It is a renewed grief because suddenly you know who you're grieving for, and then, as you say, relief at not having had to go through, for you, yet another horrible decision.
And that is totally out of order about the new patient fee! Absolutely infuriating. Money for old rope. It makes you think you might as well go elsewhere, get another opinion and maybe a better result.
Well, I'm 13dpo and have been knowingly pregnant for 2 days. Already wondering what kind of genetic problem this one is harbouring, but for some reason irrationally optimistic. I think superstitiously so, because 5 years ago it went 'big miscarriage, little miscarriage, DS'. And this year it's been 'big miscarriage, little miscarriage, ... DD or DS'?

brownstag Sun 22-Dec-13 08:43:42

But Sue, and I know this is also maybe irrational, but Down's represents a single genetic error. Just one thing went wrong; otherwise it would have been a perfect egg. I suspect that my other previous months' eggs were far more damaged and never fertilised at all. In my ridiculously optimistic way, I've decided that an egg with Down's represents an improvement and a movement towards that elusive good egg.

suemays Sun 22-Dec-13 10:09:37

brown I never thought of it that way but the end result is still the same - no baby. Glad you are feeling optimistic, I hope this works out for you. Would be lovely for one of the 'old timers' to have success for a change.

Mel3062 Mon 23-Dec-13 11:20:07

Sue I'm so sorry but hope you can have a little comfort from the results, not the right word I know but you know what I mean!
Brown whispering cautious congrats and hope 2014 is your year.
Ari so sorry lit didn't work for you. I'm not itchy this time. Our dq alpha numbers are not the same so I think that's good? Which number do you look at for the lad? I know it has to be above 30? Is it the T cells igm or igg or B cells igm or igg?
I think it's terrible you have to pay out again for mr s, all that money we've all spent sad hubby looked at our file at dr g office it's horrendous money!! There will come a point hel say stop and my 19 year old is not that understanding either!
Waves to you all x

lemonsherbet Mon 23-Dec-13 12:19:32

I am a little bit shocked by the new patient fee. Especially because no timescale was ever given to us. There is no try this for 6 months and if it doesn't work come back.

Pebbles73 Mon 23-Dec-13 13:37:35

Whispered congrats Brown hope this is the one!

Sue I know exactly what you mean that it all seems so much more real when you know the sex. I know it's horrible but must be such a relief you didn't get to the point of having to make a choice over it and on the plus side it wasn't immunes.

Mel so sorry to hear about your Mum, I hope she is on the mend soon.

lemonsherbet Tue 24-Dec-13 21:57:37

Merry Christmas to you all

duggs1976 Fri 27-Dec-13 10:11:51

Well AF arrived on Christmas Day after the IVF round so at least that is definitive. Splendid pred come down these last few days masked by a hangover confused hope all well. Have emailed penny at serum and asked if we can do an embryo harvest test. Cycle me, try half eggs with DH and half D sperm. (Want some young, Grecian, gladiator style Adonis). Also at same time want to have donor egg cycling so can try her young eggs with DH sperm and some of her eggs with geecian Adonis. Whatever we have left at transfer day transfer the best - with our own being a preference and freeze whatever is left to freeze. At least in one cycle time span nature will select the best and we should have some to bank.
DH seeing andrologists on Monday. See what comes out of that! All eyes on him.

Mel3062 Fri 27-Dec-13 12:49:12

Oh duggs really sorry. Good to hear you have a plan good luck with it. Mother Nature certainly picks her moments sad x

lemonsherbet Fri 27-Dec-13 14:36:13

duggs sorry. AF showing up is always rubbish but even worse at xmas day. At least it sounds like you have a plan which I always finds helps. But not sure if that is just me.

brownstag Sat 28-Dec-13 09:27:28

Really sorry to hear that, Duggs. The plan sounds a good one as it really is covering all bases. I suppose you might end up in situation where you put back a mixture of embryos and might not know which one you conceive with? I assume they would put back more than one?
Thanks for all your good wishes, everyone. I still seem to be pregnant, though I don't feel it at all. For me the first week is danger zone no. 1, so that's the first hurdle over. Next stop 8.5 weeks ...

Pebbles73 Sat 28-Dec-13 13:16:21

Oh Duggs I am so sorry to read that, how bloody crap arriving on Xmas day!! Your plan sounds brilliant and covers everything on one go which is great. How soon do you think you will do it?

brownstag Sun 29-Dec-13 12:45:56

Anyone know if you have to taper steroids after being on them for 2.5 weeks? This pregnancy is going nowhere.

Mel3062 Sun 29-Dec-13 16:23:32

Aww brown what makes you say that?

brownstag Sun 29-Dec-13 16:36:11

Diminishing lines. sad

Mel3062 Sun 29-Dec-13 16:43:08

But I've heard they do diminish after a few days. What about a digi? Best of luck Hun xx

brownstag Sun 29-Dec-13 16:50:47

As in today's are weaker than yesterday's; yesterday's weaker than the day before's. Sigh. Yes, a digi is required. I'm 4+ 4, so presumably it should say 2-3 weeks?

brownstag Sun 29-Dec-13 16:51:01

thanks Mel xx

Mel3062 Sun 29-Dec-13 17:12:21

I would of thought so yes. I'm sure I've heard people say step away from tests for that very reason, you'll send yourself mad ( easier said than done I know) I even cried at kats test in eastenders until I told hubby digis don't stay on the screen that long!

Arianrhod Sun 29-Dec-13 21:55:22

brown Well I know sticks are the very work of the devil, but I'm so sorry to hear you feel it's going pear-shaped. Perhaps a digi is a good idea for confirmation one way or another?

duggs Sorry about AF but absolutely loving your plan, especially the Grecian Adonis type DS. Could do with some of that myself, methinks! smile

Please <insert your preferred choice of deity here> that this next year is so much better for us all. Heaven alone knows we all deserve it!

brownstag Mon 30-Dec-13 12:42:43

Hear, hear, Ari.
I went to the docs today and I'm having a scan on Thursday. I do have to taper, incidentally, although his advice was to continue taking pred 25mg until the scan, but I won't be bothering with that. The sooner I'm back to normal the better. The only good things about this miscarriage are that it's always better if it happens earlier than later, if it has to happen at all, and that I haven't yet put on any weight like last time. And that my liver escaped the Christmas drinking I would otherwise have done ;)

Mel3062 Mon 30-Dec-13 13:32:53

Will you bother with a digi or wait for scan Hun? I understand your coping mechanism x I'll be thinking of you thurs

brownstag Tue 31-Dec-13 12:37:17

Just wait for a scan now. The lines are now a constant faint on a 10miu. Not going to waste any more money on tests. My dilemma now is whether to have a New Year's Eve drink tonight. I know it's failed but somehow it seems wrong while there's any ghost of a line ...

Mel3062 Wed 01-Jan-14 10:50:49

Happy new year ladies here's hoping 2014 is good to us all.
Brown did you have a little tipple? You'll be I'm my thoughts tomorrow please let us know how it goes best of luck. You have greater willpower than me I'd of had to get a digi! X

lemonsherbet Wed 01-Jan-14 11:21:04

Good luck brown. I know that there is nothing that I can say we have all been there on the roller coaster that is recurrent miscarriages. Just keeping my fingers crossed that this may still be your one.

Happy New year to one of the most strongest groups of women I know.

brownstag Wed 01-Jan-14 11:42:16

Happy New Year all!
Miscarriage started last night, no pain so far, so I did have a drink or 10 but feel surprisingly good this morning. A fresh start for a new year xx

Mel3062 Wed 01-Jan-14 12:50:08

Oh brown I'm so sorry. Good luck for this year xx

lemonsherbet Wed 01-Jan-14 13:54:04

brown I am so sorry, what a rubbish way to start the new year. Are they going to test the products? Sorry for the term, hate it.

Arianrhod Wed 01-Jan-14 23:04:04

Happy New Year everyone, huge hugs brown, let's hope that's the last one of those for this year!

Pebbles73 Fri 03-Jan-14 13:21:45

Brown so sorry to read your news, I hope the rest of 2014 is a good one for you!!

How us everybody else doing?

duggs1976 Sat 04-Jan-14 08:55:49

Crappy.... When is your FET ?

Pebbles73 Sat 04-Jan-14 15:38:17

You are bound to feel crampy at the mo Duggs so don't best yourself up. When are you due to start with serum, will you go next cycle?

I had my 'scratch' done in Wendsday so just waiting for af which should be in a few days. Doing a natural cycle so as long as I pick up ovulation (not easy as conventional ovulation kits don't work for me but using my clearblue digi) will be put back seven days after. Basically will be around end of Jan. trying to be optimistic but already thinking if I get pregnant will miscarry.....
Have had my second mild cold in space of four weeks so hoping the hydroxy is working on my immune system!

duggs1976 Sat 04-Jan-14 16:42:06

Oh fingers crossed pebbles shock it would be fantastic if this took and stuck

we have our telephone consultation with penny next week. DH having his tests again including DNA fragmentation and aneplodidy test on sperm. If those are clear we would know in feb but would probably cycle in April as got a few things on in match including a wedding in Cork.

duggs1976 Sat 04-Jan-14 16:43:10

In march I meant...... How is everyone else doing?

Mel3062 Sat 04-Jan-14 17:30:23

Pebbles the cold sounds promising!! Really hope it works for you this time. I've been using the advanced digi though I've not had highs just a blank then peak!
Duggs really hoping you get success too I know I've not many any of you ladies but I consider you all good friends, I guess it's because we share wonderful info about ourselves!! Let 2014 be our year!!

Mel3062 Sat 04-Jan-14 17:30:43

Met not many!!

Pebbles73 Sat 04-Jan-14 19:20:47

I know you are keen to get going Duggs and know how annoying the waiting is but it will soon come round and you will be in a better frame of mind then. Let us know how your dh gets on. Big hugs.

I know what you mean * Mel* makes you feel less like the only person who can't seem to manage the simple task of having a baby!!

lemonsherbet Mon 06-Jan-14 12:28:06

brown how did your scan go?

Pebbles73 Mon 06-Jan-14 13:16:13

Got into work today to find somebody else is pregnant!! If only it was catching...........

Arianrhod Tue 07-Jan-14 11:15:44

I feel for you on that pebbles, it seems people are having babies all over the place right now sad Fingers crossed for this cycle for you, hope it's the one that sticks!

OH's niece had her baby 3 weeks early at the weekend and his whole family are of course all full of the baby. And OH is very keen for us to go and see her, of course - plus there was the Christmas family get-together on Christmas Day where said niece was, looking radiantly pregnant. Now she's lovely, and I wish her well - but I feel terrible about it; I should have been 2 weeks after her with this last IVF pregnancy. Oh, and an ex-au pair of my ex-DH, who I'm still in contact with on Facebook, posted pictures of the baby girl she just had before Christmas last night, I hadn't even known she was pregnant.

OH still isn't making any comment about doing a second IVF cycle, and here's me wanting to get on with planning it, hoping end of Feb to actually do ET although DD is still ill, I just don't know how much longer it's going to take before DD is completely better. No clue how the heck to kick his @rse into gear over this, while pointing out his tactlessness in wanting to go and coo over his new grand-niece!

/waves to everyone

suemays Tue 07-Jan-14 13:07:40

pebbles its so hard when everyone else is pregnant, especially when its at work and you are faced with it every day. It helps me to think "you are pregnant but not with my baby". I had to spend Christmas Day with my family cooing over my nephews 2 week old baby so found that very hard and then New Year's Eve with another friend who is about to drop.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I don't think I will have another baby. I am getting to the point now where I don't get as broody or desperate to have one. Saying that I did have my appointment with mr s before Christmas to discuss my next steps but I am not popping steroids every month. For me, I am trying to get my life back to normal - starting to diet and exercise and booking in things with friends. When frantically TTC I wouldn't book anything up incase i was pregnant plus stopped exercising. Fed up with feeling like a social outcast incase pregnant friends / babies are there!

brown hope you are ok and the scan gave you a definite answer.

ari part of the reason I feel like giving up is that my DH also is not that bothered about keeping TTC. Its a bit of a lonely journey at times!

duggs glad you have another plan in place. Have you had any test results back from DH yet? I still think you will get there!

duggs1976 Tue 07-Jan-14 13:27:21

Hello ladies... Ari you are doing Donor embryo honey? If so then your chances are almost 70% aren't they as you can have young proven donors? We have a call with penny tomorrow evening. DH having his tests on Friday morning - he has had his consultation with the embryologist. The infection he had was a gut/intestine one so it may well have returned in the last year which would explain the terrible results of this last cycle.

Sue I don't blame you for your approach, you may well get pregnant again with a chromosonally ok baby but like you say you need to look forward and enjoy time with DD are you staying on hydroxy? I've stopped everything right now.

Pebbles fingers crossed this one is the one - have you discussed what you'd do if this doesn't work out?

Freelance is almost there with her documentary so that will be interesting when it comes out!

Pebbles73 Tue 07-Jan-14 14:04:38

I really feel for you Ari and Sueas must have been v hard for you both. it's hard to behave normally around pregnant people and new babies!! It's not that you aren't happy for them but just keep thinking why can't I manage it!

I hope you can talk your dh round Ari and as Duggs said you have very high chances if it working with a donor embryo.

It sounds like you are taking a healthy attitude to the whole thing Sue, we don't want to look back and think we missed out on so much because of constantly ttc. Good for you. smile

If this doesn't work Duggs and I am not holding my breath then I plan to look at donor eggs with Serum. If that doesn't work then I guess it's onto adoption. Just need to get my head round not actually being pregnant and having the baby myself etc.

Have a scan and progesterone blood test next Wednesday, can't seem to muster up much enthusiasm at the mo. Need to try and get some positivity.

Arianrhod Tue 07-Jan-14 15:08:17

Ah sue, I know exactly what you're saying. I've swung back and forwards from that view myself, asking myself if I'm utterly nuts to keep on with this in the face of everything - even DD has started saying she doesn't want a baby sister or brother anymore. I can't afford another cycle, I will have to take out a loan to do it (which is difficult in itself); OH doesn't want to have anything to do with actually doing another cycle as far as I can tell, let alone paying for anything - the only thing he's interested right now is the next holiday, which he's already researching, and will be wanting me to pay half of. He is quite against another child from a finance point of view, as it will restrict the things we do to a degree (three holidays last year!), whereas I would rather just have a couple of weeks down on the south coast once a year and have two children! Methinks we have fundamental differences in our outlooks, I just wish I'd known this before I started seeing him all those years ago. Oh well.

sue I think your attitude is a very healthy one, actually - we put our lives on hold for this and before you realise it, your life is just flying past and you're not doing the things you actually want to do in your life. pebbles I hear you too - I'm actually finding I have little interest in anything much these days; I guess I'm just tired of all the stress and hassle. I do often feel like I wish I could pull the duvet over my head and get up in a couple of years when all this worry has gone away - I'm sure you can all relate to that!

duggs I'm loving your planning and yes, I would be doing both donor egg and sperm. It makes me sad to think when we started this road my eggs were probably still good enough; I was 42, and had DD when I was 39. I'm now almost 46, tomorrow actually, and almost certainly my eggs are now completely knackered. I don't mind the donor aspect of it, it just makes me sad that I didn't know OH and I were so incompatible (I'm talking genetically here, although other meanings do cross my mind these days!) all that time ago; if I'd known, I wouldn't have bothered trying at all.

duggs When will your DH get his test results back, do you know? Hopefully it will just be another course of antibiotics or something to get him right again? Lots of luck for your consultation, I really do like Penny a lot personally, she is one of the few genuine people in this game, I feel. There are rumours she's intending, if not to completely retire, at least take more of a back seat in this IVF/fertility game - I'm hoping all of us get our babies before that happens!

I'm slightly worried because Penny now wants me to 'get a cheap flight' and go over for an aqua scan, to check the last miscarriage didn't leave any further scarring, and I just can't afford to do that. Thinking of how miuch scarring was seen during the hysto I had in April in Athens just worries me that similar might have happened. There was no way anything would have implanted prior to that hysto, but I cannot afford to have another one. I was hoping that the hysto I had here (Sept?) to remove the last bits of the miscarriage would have left my cervix healthy enough, but it seems now that Penny wants to check. I'm going to have to gamble on this one, I honestly can't afford another airfare and another aqua scan on top of the costs of another cycle. This is another thing just making me wonder if I'm doing the right thing carrying on with this - am I just stupid to gamble that all is ok inside? What a waste of a hell of a lot of money if it's not!

Sorry, I'm just feeling all this is going to end up futile, I do try to be positive but it's getting harder and harder!!

Pebbles73 Tue 07-Jan-14 18:20:16

Sorry forgot to say I hope you are doing ok Brown

Just had a lurk on pred thread and nearly everyone seems to be pregnant!!

Pebbles73 Tue 07-Jan-14 18:50:45

Sorry writ that post earlier and it didn't send, so mow read your post Ari.

It is so difficult to know what to do for the best and understand your dilemma re the aqua scan. I think sometimes you just have to take the risk that everything is ok. There are lots more tests we should get done but we can't afford them on top of the price of ivf. If I was you I would take the chance that everything is ok seeing as you had the hysto in September.
Would be nice to go back to bring about 30 when life was less stressful! My mum stayed all over Xmas and took her back at the weekend, she hates being in the house on her own since my Dad went in the home and has been quite down so that's another worry. Sorry I seem to be on a bit of a downer!

Anyway I hope you have a nice Birthday tomorrow Ari in spite of all the other stuff.

duggs1976 Tue 07-Jan-14 19:24:41

I second pebbles advice - go for it with donor embryos your age is pretty irrelevant and you will know you have done literally ALL you can ... Once you are pregnant successfully then surely DH will tag along !?!

Pebbles it might encourage you to know serum do 2 IVF cycles for 4000 euro plus about 1,500 drugs costs per cycle. If you wanted to test sperm and eggs independently then sperm costs no more so I will be testing my eggs with donor sperm and freezing any decent resulting embryos. If that doesn't work we will do same with DH sperm and try donor eggs and half donor egg and donor sperm. That costs 5000 euros. So all in all I'm opting for £15k spend on 2 cycles one egg donor and testing sperm and eggs separately so in effect 4 combinations. This cost includes travel and intrallipids etc based on agates fab spreadsheet. It probably isn't what u want to read now but if our eggs and sperm don't stand up then at least donor embryos from young proven anonomous donors
Gives a great chance of excellent blastocysts ( u get 3 grade 1 blastyos guaranteed ) so keep in mind that you r not at the end of the road an this FET has a good chance but is not the whole world x

duggs1976 Tue 07-Jan-14 19:26:56

No idea how we pay for this as I am looking for work but if we don't put an end to this hideous journey this year then i am not sure what will happen!!hmmconfusedshock

brownstag Tue 07-Jan-14 20:02:13

I sympathise so much with what all of you ladies are saying. I too logically think it won't happen, but the difference is, I'm spurred on by my new ability to conceive, which after so long a period of depressing infertility is heartening.
Ari, I feel the same. If only I'd sorted out the problem with conceiving when I was 39, 40 or 41 when presumably my eggs were better than now - when I am able to conceive at nearly 43 with endless crap eggs.
My scan showed that everything had been expelled although there was some residual pregnancy hormone shown on the blood test so they want me to do another urine pregnancy test in 2 weeks to make sure the levels are going down, not up.
Oddly enough, only day 7 of my new cycle, I just had a positive ovulation test. I don't normally test so early so who knows what normally happens at that point, but my ovaries feel like something's going on, so I tested. Better dtd then! I wasn't expecting to be getting back on the bike I'd fallen off so quickly!
I've also got a phone consultation with Penny at Serum next week and am due to start another superovulation with Mr S on my next cycle.

brownstag Tue 07-Jan-14 20:05:23

Oooh, somehow loads of new posts appeared between my reading and posting - in case it seems like I was ignoring anyone!

brownstag Tue 07-Jan-14 20:06:33

Happy birthday tomorrow, Ari. You have the same birthday as my DS.

Arianrhod Wed 08-Jan-14 13:36:04

Thank you brown, and happy birthday to your DS! smile

suemays Wed 08-Jan-14 16:02:10

Happy birthday ari!!

Arianrhod Thu 09-Jan-14 11:46:08

Thank you sue smile How are things going with you?

suemays Thu 09-Jan-14 22:29:17

Fine thanks, nothing to report here!

Mel3062 Sat 11-Jan-14 09:08:51

Happy belated birthday Ari x

Mel3062 Sat 11-Jan-14 09:12:19

Brown I'm liking the pma good luck next cycle! I've had migraine and now af bang on due day, it's soul destroying when we've Dtd so much sad

suemays Mon 13-Jan-14 09:29:04

mel at least your cycles are normal so that you have a good chance of conceiving this month! I am due in the next few days - negative on a test this morning so waiting for af to show too.

Mel3062 Mon 13-Jan-14 18:20:16

I know and I know I'm lucky for that it's so hard x

lemonsherbet Mon 13-Jan-14 22:30:11

Happy belated birthday ari

Arianrhod Tue 14-Jan-14 09:15:16

Thank you lemon smile Feeling old now, although one mum at DD's birthday party cheered me up no end on Saturday when she said she didn't think I'd remember the Generation Game (DD had a make-your-own-pizza party at Pizza Express, and it really did look like something out of the Generation Game). I had to laugh, I must be a good 5 to 10 years older than she is!

Arianrhod Wed 15-Jan-14 09:56:04

Morning ladies, just wondered how everyone is doing?

brownstag Wed 15-Jan-14 11:26:43

All fine here, thanks. Just have my real LH surge, after so many false positives early on. I'm assuming real as it's day 15. So just waiting for hubby to get back for golf to dtd. Sorry, tmi for elevenses?
How are you?

swlondonnanny Wed 15-Jan-14 11:54:00

All fine here as well, thank you. Not even doing ovulation tests this month - getting married in 4 weeks time takes my mind of TTC really well. Noticed some EWCM yesterday and thought - oh no we'd better DTD but hang on who will pick the colour of napkins if we are busy DTD.
Find it quite refreshing and relaxing actually - after 3 years of TTC and 9 early losses and no baby/child yet for once I have no idea which day of cycle I am grin.

Arianrhod Wed 15-Jan-14 12:31:44

We're in sync then brown, as I just got mine last night (day 13). Do you think the false positives were down to the sensitivity of the tests you were using?

Me, trying to figure out a way to get my completely oblivious OH to go along with doing our next cycle end Feb, or it might be mid-March now. Have discussed with Penny and she's suggested not down-regging, but doing this on my natural cycle, synchronising the donor's cycle to mine. Which sounds fine to me, the down-regging meds had a horrible effect when I did it last time, I felt awful for a couple of weeks. Had thought to do it in Feb, but I can't go out to Athens until after 16th Feb as DD has a hectic ballet rehearsal/performance schedule until then, and I'm due for OV next cycle about the 11th. So I'm guessing we'll have to wait till March, but waiting for Penny to confirm. Guess that gives me another month to try to figure out how to get OH onboard with it. hmm

In the meantime I've ordered my sairei-to from the lovely John Bowen, after seeing what a great calming effect it had on DD's immune system I thought sod the expense (to a point!), and Penny has asked me to get an aqua scan done to just double-check that the last MC didn't leave scarring. Which can be done over here, but oh my it's expensive, the best I found was £250. Sigh. Still better than €200 but with flight charges to go out to Athens and get it done, which is what Serum wanted. Oh, and I still have no idea how I'm going to pay for the actual cycle.

Does your head in, all this, doesn't it?!

How's everyone else doing??

Arianrhod Wed 15-Jan-14 12:34:29

lol swlondon ... glad to hear you're letting Real Life take front stage. And congrats for your impending nuptials!!

Pebbles73 Wed 15-Jan-14 14:08:38

Yes congrats swlondon and hope you are enjoying the ttc break. I think it does you good to step back for a while.

Brown good luck for this month and hope you had a good afternoon. smile

Ari I hope you can get oh on side, good luck.

Had a scan today to check lining and is 8mm and just to see if everything is ok. Take ovitrelle Friday and wait for smiley face on ov test, progesterone blood test Tuesday. If embryo thaws ok (desperately keeping everything crossed and might have to start praying!!) will be out back end of next week!

Arianrhod Wed 15-Jan-14 14:32:14

So you're doing a natural cycle too pebbles?

Arianrhod Wed 15-Jan-14 14:33:18

Sorry, I meant to ask too, what CD are you today, that your lining is at 8mm for? Which is a perfect depth, isn't it? Fingers crossed for that thawing embryo!! What are you doing differently this cycle, if anything?

Pebbles73 Wed 15-Jan-14 17:45:55

Yes and it's so nice not having to hob through down regulation, like you that makes me feel rubbish and gives me terrible headaches. I am cd11 today and was really pleased with my lining, I had two large follicles. I get frustrated that all those bits seem to work but I just can't get pregnant!

I realised after I posted this morning that as I am having ovitrelle won't that effect the ov sticks??

Pebbles73 Wed 15-Jan-14 17:47:02

Only thing I am doing differently for this one is taking hydroxy, I desperately hope it makes the difference but I know it doesn't work for everyone.

brownstag Wed 15-Jan-14 18:59:16

I found a paper today published in 2009 showing hydroxy seems to work in cases of antiphospholipid syndrome. At least I think that's what it was saying. I don't mind reading research papers as a rule but this was quite dense!
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2844013/
I was looking to see if there was any evidence of using hydroxy for recurrent miscarriage and that's what I came up with. My longest recent pregnancy was using hydroxy but I've stopped it now, in an attempt to reduce all the stuff I'm taking, but maybe that's a mistake, so I wanted to see what the evidence was. But you would think Mr S would have published something by now if there was anything worth reporting.
Why do you need the ov sticks with Ovitrelle, Pebbles? Good luck. Have you tried l-arginine? I got pregnant the first month of taking it and twice since. Not that it sounds like you have lining/blood flow issues, but worth a go?
As to my ov sticks, Ari, mine are the NHS pregnancy test brand ones. My positive this morning was much stronger than the control whereas my earlier positives were the same as the control. Maybe I need to get the less sensitive ones now for PCOS.
And good luck, Nanny and Ari. Maybe taking your eye off the ball is what you need, Nanny. And congratulations!
I'm in the same boat as you, Ari. I've got my phone consultation with Penny tomorrow and I haven't even mentioned it to DH yet! Glad to hear your DD responded well to the sairei-to. How is she now?

lemonsherbet Thu 16-Jan-14 13:06:03

Hi, I am going to have a bit of a mammoth me post. Figure it has been ages since I have written a me post so hope it is ok.

I have been having a bit of a rough time. DH job appears under threat, so only taking the 9 months of maternity leave. Which I know I am lucky to have. So I am going back to work next month. Really don't want to. My contract runs out in May and so I am having to have to take another job. It looks like I will have to take another FT one since we need to be able to pay the mortgage if my DH get laid off.

It also makes deciding if to try and have another baby difficult. I really want more that one.I know before I got pregnant with DS I was saying just let me have one baby. But I know the pressure I got from my parents when I was struggling to conceive about how I was there only chance of having grandchildren, how it was their grandchild I had lost etc. The problem is it has taken me 6 years and 5 pregnancies to have one child. I don't feel I have the time on my side to wait. I don't know why this one worked and the others didn't, I was off treatment in this pregnancy. I am not sure if I can wait for things to settle down before TTC again. I am still breastfeeding so my periods have not returned. I am not sure why I am writing this. I guess I just want some advice about what to do.

Hope everyone else is OK

brownstag Thu 16-Jan-14 16:30:05

It's very difficult, lemon. Oddly enough I was just walking to pick my son up earlier thinking about how there's almost never a good time financially to have a baby so therefore you should go for it when you're still fertile. The important thing is to be stable in a relationship. But obviously you don't want to be homeless! Even if you do try, it might take some time, and you don't want to not try and then regret that you wasted some precious time. How easy would it be for him to get another job in his line of work?
And I know only too well the 'Please God, just one baby, then I'll be happy!' scenario. Unfortunately once you have them you really know how adorable they are and want them even more.

lemonsherbet Thu 16-Jan-14 19:46:12

I think it may be a bit difficult for him. I have a job that is quite hard work. The plan was originally that after this contract ended that we would look at me taking a step back and maybe changing directions. I have already been informally offered a job after this contract ends. So I will stay employed just will be difficult for child care and will be stressful. I just think that my first baby would of been due when I was 34. I will be 40 next year, it took till I was 39 to actually getting a living one. Before the joy of recurrent miscarriage took hold we were planning on 3 before I reached 40!

Arianrhod Fri 17-Jan-14 13:08:22

lemon It's a very tough time when jobs are under threat, and harder when you're trying to make decisions about trying for another baby. My OH and I are both under something of a permanent threat of redundancy at the moment, and I've had to think that I can't let this interfere - I just don't have the time to put everything on back burner for a couple of years.

You staying in this job may make things a bit difficult but you'll be surprised at how you can get around things. When I had DD I was on my own and full-time employed, with only enough money to have 3 months' maternity leave (my employer is stingy; 4 weeks of that I had to use annual leave for). I really didn't want to, but I put DD in to a nursery for 2 days of the week while I was in the office and managed to be able to work from home for the other 3 days. It is horrible putting your child into nursery so very young, but she really didn't seem bothered by it; she loved nursery and the people there, as it turned out. It still bothers me now that she had to go to nursery so young, but it actually stood her in good stead when she started school - she didn't bat an eyelid, took it all in her stride, while others were really struggling to be parted from their mums and to be in a class with other children.

I know things look bad at the moment but hang in there, these things have a way of working out. I hope the worries over your DH's job end up being ok in the end, and you manage to settle into a new routine with minimum grief.

lemonsherbet Sun 19-Jan-14 10:04:59

Thanks Ari think it is just a question of when rather than if. It is horrible with this threat hanging over us. I imagine it must be the same for your DH and you. I am having to put DS into nursery FT. My current contract did not want me to go part time. I agree about feeling horrible. I think we have to go for it with having another child. I know in an ideal world we would wait and year etc and then start TTC. But, it took so long to have this one at an age where my eggs were "good".

It is also difficult to know if we should go and see someone like Mr S. My NK cells were already one of the highest he had seen prior to having this baby. So now they must be through the roof :-)

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Arianrhod Sun 19-Jan-14 22:15:44

Not necessarily lemon - from what I've read a pregnancy can 'reset' your immune system, which then over time ends up back mostly where it was. I've heard of ladies on FF who had v high immune problems, managed to have a successful pregnancy, and were successfully pregnant again within the next year. Now obviously everyone's different - but don't write off your chances just yet. Also try not to beat yourself up about putting DS into nursery - I've been there, and as far as I can tell DD hasn't had any ill effects from it.

Pebbles73 Tue 21-Jan-14 20:35:38

Good luck with everything lemon

Going to ask a random question, was due to have my hair highlighted Saturday but found out today embryo transfer planned for Friday if goes to plan. I don't know if to cancel getting hair coloured, my hairdresser always says that highlights are ok in pregnancy because they don't go on the scalp like all over dye. Wondered what the general opinion is on hair colour in pregnancy/ivf.

Is my dh's Birthday drinks in London on Saturday with most of our friends, haven't told anyone as get sick if talking about it all but as i won't be drinking will be obvious....

How are things with you Duggs and how did your oh get on?

Arianrhod Wed 22-Jan-14 10:09:17

pebbles I understood as long as the chemicals don't touch the scalp it should be ok. But having said that, when I was pregnant with DD a lifetime ago, I didn't redo my highlights, I used henna instead. But then I was always a very cautious soul!

Best of luck with your transfer smile

violetaswright Wed 22-Jan-14 11:08:15

Well, becoming pregnant came quick, but keeping pregnancies from miscarriage became a recurrent problem.

Pebbles73 Thu 23-Jan-14 18:57:18

Thanks Ari, I checked with the head nurse at Newlife Visha who is really helpful and she advised against it. I thought to save me worrying about it I wouldn't risk it!

Waves to all.

Arianrhod Tue 28-Jan-14 14:24:23

pebbles Just wondered how your ET went on Friday? And duggs, you're very quiet, how are things going with you? brown, sue, mel you too, how are your plans coming alone? lemon, did you decide whether to start on the road to DC2 yet?

Looks like I'll be going out to Athens for ET in mid-March; have to have an aqua scan & endo scratch this cycle first. Thought I'd save money (and time) by getting that done here but boy I'd underestimated how much more expensive procedures are over here than in Greece sad .

Pebbles73 Tue 28-Jan-14 20:59:08

Hi Ari is so quite on here!! Thank you for asking, transfer all went well was a six day blastocyst of above average quality. Procedure went really smoothly and then I had intralipids. Emotions going from wanting to cry, desperately worrying it won't work, then worrying if it does will it be another miscarriage and occasionally letting myself be positive!! Keep wanting to just sit with my feet up but nowadays they say better to be active to keep circulation going.....

Two pregnancies announced at work, one of the girls was pregnant the same time I had my first proper miscarriage so hoping that's not a bad omen!!

Good news you have your plan in place, have you spoken
to your dh about it all? If so I assume he has come round?

Hope everyone is ok, let is know how you are all getting on.

Arianrhod Wed 29-Jan-14 09:33:08

Excellent pebbles - how come a day six blast? Isn't it hatching by then, or was that the point? Fingers so tightly crossed that finally this is the one for you!

No bad omens allowed, only good ones!

lol Oh no, I still haven't spoken to OH ... I did leave out my Serum prescriptions, which he has seen and studiously ignored! Still haven't figured how to bring up the topic, better do so soon I guess smile

Clabbage Wed 29-Jan-14 12:58:38

Really sorry to gate crash your thread but know this is the 'sister' thread to the pred thread. Do you know if a new pred thread has been created since no 11. I know some of you post on both. Can't find it.
I wish you all so much luck. I often read on here just to see how you are getting on xx hope that doesn't sound stalkerish! Having read the pred thread from the start, I would so love to see happy outcomes for you all x

Arianrhod Wed 29-Jan-14 13:48:15
brownstag Thu 30-Jan-14 09:13:50

Thanks Ari, all okay here. It was day 2 for me yesterday and I debated all day whether to take letrozole but didn't in the end. My melatonin arrived and I took it last night: ha ha! I can vouch for melatonin not being an effective sleep aid. I've been sleeping lately brilliantly lately but last night had about 3 or 4 hours, mainly because I was kind of observing what effect it had on me!
Good luck with all that, ari. So did you mean you are having the aqua scan, etc. done here or not? I'm still debating whether to go out there or not for a hysteroscopy and get the antibiots, etc.
Great news, Pebbles.

Arianrhod Thu 30-Jan-14 11:00:31

Now that's interesting brown .. I know lots and lots of people swear by melatonin to help them sleep - admittedly these are people with adrenal issues (like me), rather than the ladies taking it for fertility reasons. I confess although I bought a bottle of melatonin tabs way back when we were trying naturally still, I ended up never taking them because I was worried about the reports that stated it could have an adverse effect on ovulation.

I am having the aqua scan & endo scratch here, yes, on day 21 of this cycle (day 3 today), but only because flying out to Athens this month simply isn't an option for me due to things going on with DD. I would much prefer to have it done out in Athens, having experienced the much greater level of care while having the hysteroscopy out there last April, plus it's the only GA I've ever had that I felt pretty much instantly fit as a fiddle afterwards. And the antibiotics, well both OH and I have done them twice now and we managed ok - I'd say it's got to be worth a try? I know several ladies now who have reported their DH's sperm count/fragmentation levels improved drastically by taking this course of anti-bs, but also having seen the DVD of my own hysto I saw the red threads of what Penny told me was infection (I tested pos. for both 'hidden' C and ureaplasma) so to me it's a no-brainer to get as much cleared up as possible. I will be doing anti-bs again start of next cycle, nice! smile

I'm kind of looking forward to going out to Serum again in March, even though I think DD will be going with me, as it's rather like visiting old friends going there! Never felt that about going to New Life! grin

Arianrhod Thu 30-Jan-14 11:00:55

duggs are you out there somewhere? How are you doing??

Pebbles73 Thu 30-Jan-14 13:31:09

Good luck with the melatonin Brown, it amazes me how we all keep going. What a resilient lot we are!

I stupidly did a test this morning even though not due to do official test until Monday! Of course it was completely negative but I was thinking after a bladticyst transfer would be a faint line by now........ guess will just have to be patient!

Clabbage Thu 30-Jan-14 15:57:24

Thanks Ari.
No idea why I couldn't find that xx

Mel3062 Fri 31-Jan-14 06:28:18

Got results from lit and My friend says they are amazing they were 3.4 and 9.0 last time and now they're 51 and 92.8 and he likes them over 50 so fingers crossed to see what dr g says sat. Good luck pebbles. I lost the link thanks brown!! Waves to all xx

lemonsherbet Fri 31-Jan-14 12:42:34

Good luck Ari hope your daughter is getting better. It sounds like the care in Athens is great.

pebbles can not blame you for testing early. The roller coaster is just rubbish

My cycles have still not returned post birth but when they do figure we will just go for it. Give it 6 months and then if no joy re evaluate. It is so difficult do not want to miss out on ds babyhood, and know how ttc takes over everything

duggs1976 Sat 01-Feb-14 16:17:41

Test

duggs1976 Sat 01-Feb-14 16:19:58

Hey peeps written a few posts but didn't show ? Been busy with new job. Planning on IVF with serum in May - heading there for hysteroscopy in April. Earliest I can get out there so just wishing time away again. Hope u ladies feeling ok? Pebbles routing for you...

Mel3062 Sat 01-Feb-14 16:27:09

Yey duggs good luck! Pebbles good luck for mon.
Been to see dr gorgy who said a lit booster would be better as it would last longer then just retest when preg.
Hubby's come away with more proxeed!
He suggested we try for 6 months. I need 3 lots of intralipids (1 every 4 weeks) not sure why I'm not having any for the remainder of the 6 months.
I'm having ivig when preg.
He didn't mention neopegen this time but he did at first meeting, wish I'd queried that.
I'm on clexane from day 7 ( never had that before it's always been on pos test?!)
Steroids have increased to 40 mg from day 7! As nk cells are high, no sleep!! Prof quenby recommended me to just have clexane and progesterone on positive test as something had caused high uterine cells but I guess that could of been the hydroxy or any other vit I was having!
I'm on progesterone too from after ovu that's new as that used to be after post test.
He's recommended I have dhea as amh is low.
I hope all this is ok to take with thyroxine!
All in all it sounds very rigorous! Is tinzerparin the same as claxane? I have that already?!

duggs1976 Sun 02-Feb-14 08:18:21

Hey Mel certainly throwing the book at this. Ivig I believe when pg does what lit does so no need for lit when pg. yes tinzaparin is a form of heparin so same as clexane a blood thinner. Progesterone from bfp seems increasingly common ARGC do so to apparently and helps implantation. Not sure about the nuepogen think you should email or call to clarify that point. 40mg pred same as dr S. I believe dr G is one of the if not the most thorough/aggressive approach to immunology after working alongside dr beer when he was alive so if this lot doesn't work on the immune side not sure what will. Just need a healthy embryo to come along now. What is proxeed for DH?

Mel3062 Sun 02-Feb-14 08:34:14

Thanks duggs, I'm going to see if my doc will prescribe them all for me though not sure about the clexane but I can ask!!
Just scared to take the tinzerparin as it's a diff name is that daft?! My rmc lady gave me that but from scan so don't think she'll approve. Lit would be cheaper than ivig :/
Yes I had progesterone from BFp before but now I'm to take it after ovul even though he doesn't think I have a progesterone prob, joy!
Not heard of clexane when trying before so that worries me abit.
Proxeed is an antidoxiant drink to help sperm as the fragmentation wasn't great- look it up on amazon he's had 2 months of it but dr g said about 4 x

Arianrhod Sun 02-Feb-14 11:46:09

Mel On the Clexane thing, Serum have you taking it a long time in the cycle before ovulation - I think about day 3 of your cycle or so. I think it's fairly standard procedure, I wouldn't worry.

Mel3062 Sun 02-Feb-14 12:57:43

Thanks ari that's reassuring x

Pebbles73 Sun 02-Feb-14 13:14:43

Fab results Mel and good luck with ttc!

Nice to hear you are ok Duggs, tested this morning and got two negatives and the faintest of faint shadows on one and you had to really squint. Gutted as that was last go for us with my eggs, can't believe am never going to have my own child!!!! I think next step will be donor eggs at serum but prob won't be able to do it until summer as still trying to pay for last ivf.

duggs1976 Sun 02-Feb-14 17:43:24

Pebbles are you sure ? I guess you know deep down. Take some time but Penny at Serum is fantastic and it's a whole different ball game. If this doesn't work out then Ari, you and me will be out in Greece this summer x

Arianrhod Sun 02-Feb-14 22:08:31

pebbles So sorry if you're right but is it your otd yet, could there still be time? Honey, if it's to be donor eggs, look into epigenetics - you may find it makes you feel a whole lot better about using donor eggs. Your body will turn on (and off) surprising amounts of genetic switches in the baby, so apart from the genetic starting block of the originating egg, the baby when born WILL be 'your' own child.

And I can only second what duggs says - Penny really is fantastic. Remember you can have a consultation phone call with her at any time, you don't need to be ready to cycle there at the time - and she may be able to set your mind at rest on so many things.

Pebbles73 Mon 03-Feb-14 09:05:10

Today was otd and completely negative, god it's so depressing!!! Thank you for all your support ladies and Ari thank you for that info I will be googling first chance I get! I hadn't looked into it yet as was still hoping it wouldn't come to that. Mind you the results if donor egg ivf so much higher than own eggs and I just don't know what else to try. There is surrogacy but if it's my eggs that are the problem it's just more waste of money.

Anyway I guess best thing to do is speak to Penny for some advice. Not sure if to keep on taking the hydroxy or not??

Thank god I have you ladies to talk to as think I would go crazy otherwise! Duggs do you fancy another meet up or are you enjoying having a bit of a break from all this?

suemays Mon 03-Feb-14 09:23:03

pebbles sorry to hear about the bfn. I think egg donation would be best for you as it probably is down to the age of your eggs so surrogacy might not work. For the cost of surrogacy you could have a few goes at DE. My friend has 2 DE kids who not only look like her but also have some of her personality traits. How about trying a mix of your own and donor eggs as then you would never know the genetics? If I didn't have DD I would def be looking at DE. You are still the one giving life to the child and you would experience that.

I'm up for a meetup!

duggs1976 Mon 03-Feb-14 13:24:13

Sorry pebbles. hmm I know where u r
Right now.
FET is a sneaky shock as a bfn is just as painful as full on IVF.
I'm up for a meet up. Ari could u join us?
Am currently looking into dates when I can get to Athens....maybe end March and then end of April. Ari fascinating stuff you sent earlier. I am accepting egg donor as most viable
Option you get 3 guaranteed grade 1 blasts for 5k euros. I will take that from a young, proven donor. X