Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 5

[Mel3062]

Hope this is right ladies ...

[duggs1976]

It might well be. Surrogacy is another avenue I need to look into. Anyone know much about it?

[Arianrhod]

Morning ladies .. pebbles, how are you doing? And duggs well done you for thinking ahead, even when in the middle of all this cr@p.

Ladies, I thought this might interest you, or some of you anyway. I was talking with Penny about What We Are Doing Next, and discussing the problem of my overactive immune system. Even on the 10mg pred she had me taking recently to prepare for a next cycle, I still have itchy psoriasis and joint pains. She suggested I email John Bowen (you all know about him, right?) and ask him if he had any suggestions for any Chinese herbs that might help. He responded with this:


We have a herbal treatment called Sairei-to which is extremely effective in suppressing overactive immune systems. You can read more about it on our website at: www.herbalassistance.com/ Actually it is one of the few traditional Oriental herbal remedies that is also backed up by modern, scientific test data (see website info). We get quite a lot of demand for it as immune issues are common in the field of infertility.

I would recommend the following course and dosage for you to start off with.

Sairei-to:. A two month (60 day) course with the first 30 days timed to end at the time of your egg transfer if you are using donor eggs or at the time of your egg collection/ovulation if you are not. This would be followed immediately by the next 30 day course. The dosage is 3 capsules at 3 times per day (9 capsules per day) for the full 60 day course. The cost of Sairei-to is 60 Euros for a 1 month supply so the total cost would be 120 Euros for the 2 month course.

Should you have a successful implantation I would then recommend that you continue on with it for at lease around another 4 months or so, as from what you have told me I feel that your NK cells would carry out recurring attacks on the embryo if not kept in check.


Now, this stuff isn't cheap - god knows the last thing I need is MORE expense! - but I do know lots of ladies have had successful cycles after taking John Bowen's herbs. I'm minded to give it a go, and see what happens.

Just thought I'd run this all by you, in case anyone else is interested in the weird and wacky things to calm down one's out-of-control immune system!

/waves to all

[Arianrhod]

duggs our posts crossed. Sorry I don't know anything about the surrogacy option, hopefully someone else does. brown You never know, this COULD be the month! Crossing fingers for you!

[duggs1976]

John Bowen ?.isnt he the guy from bullseye the darts programme from the 80's? or is that him Bowen? Right I'm off to research him. V interesting. Thanks ari.

[suemays]

That was Jim Bowen from bullseye! I think he is dead now too! duggs I think adoption is a great idea as there is nothing stopping you TTC at the same time, just lie.

[Arianrhod]

LOL! You get nothing for two in a bed ... well how true is that in some of our cases right now! :) I'd echo sue's comment duggs - nothing to stop you having recreational fun whilst going through the adoption process, and IF it should just so happen said recreational fun produces a baby, well so much the better! :)

[brownstag]

Ha ha! Jim Bowen isn't (quite) dead; he was on The Big Fat Quiz of the Year the other night, but seemed a bit doddery. How come I'd never heard of this stuff, Sairei-to? You are a wonderful mine of information, Ari. And I'm going to give this info to one of the mum's at my DS's new school I've become friends with. She has horrendous arthritis and her drug regime is preventing her from being able to try to conceive.
As to surrogacy, all I know is that you're best to go through the proper channels (you don't want another Coronation Street episode) as outlined on the surrogacyuk.org and surrogacy.org websites. I don't know of anyone personally who does it for the general public (I'd be inviting myself to tea daily if I did), although I know someone who carried a baby for her brother and his wife (his sperm/donor egg). She also had high natural killer cells so had to have all the usual treatment for it during pregnancy; it was an awful pregnancy, and she basically hid away for months. Most people don't even know she was pregnant. You don't have any frosties, do you Duggs, from when you did IVF?

[duggs1976]

No brown no frosties I put one back last September and it failed Thanks for the info. I so want to be pregnant and I so dread the thought of it a surrogate seems more and more appealing. Just need to research more.

[Mel3062]

The herbs are interesting thanks, maybe I best ask prof quenby as daren't take Anything at the mo :/ bleeding now :(

[Arianrhod]

Well brown I can't really take the credit for this one - Penny suggested I should talk with John to see what he recommends, and this is what he said. I know quite a few FF ladies take herbs on John's suggestion, and I know they have had some surprising results - I already knew about his mycology supplements (various mushroom extracts for various conditions) but this was a new one on me. It's not cheap - these things never are, are they?! - but I think it's got to be worth a go. Penny seems to think highly of John and his herbs, so I'll see what happens.

duggs Do you know what has triggered your high NK cell activation this time? I don't remember, did you and DH ever get tested for DQ alpha/HLA matches? It's just that if that is an issue, then using a surrogate won't help if it's still your eggs and your DH's sperm. Just a thought, I'm sure you've already considered this! I'm sure you've spoken to everyone under the sun, but had you considered running your whole history past Penny and seeing what she thinks? You don't have to necessarily cycle with Serum, Penny will still give you advice anyway, she did for me back when I was just investigating the infection screening. Just another thought. :)

pebbles How are you doing?

[Arianrhod]

Bugger, hit Post too soon ... mel just wanted to send you hugs too.

[duggs1976]

Thanks Ari! I did have the DQ alpha etc done last summer with dr Gorgy. All clear there. I am not sure. I was having acupuncture, Chinese herbs and being v relaxed so immune system all strong I expect? I did think about talking to penny. I am currently waiting to see if the chromosonal tests pick up anything and then back to dr Shehata because I want the hydroxy as is only thing I have tried properly that others have had success on. Feeling more positive today. Going to check out the surrogacy link and we are thinking of getting a chocolate Labrador puppy x not sure how my two cats would feel so just researching. How are you sue and choccy and pebbles too ? Breezy and buzzy preggers. What about you ari how are you feeling about what to do next ?

[Pebbles73]

Sorry been a bit awol, needed to enjoy my 40th weekend without thinking of trying to get pregnant, having treatment or miscarrying! Had such a lovely weekend and dh spoilt me but back to earth and work with a bang today. Feeling v grumpy and cheesed off with life!!

In answer to some if your questions sue I did super ov for six months and not even a hint of a bfp, oh apart from a faulty pregnancy test!

Brown I have never managed to get pregnant naturally in ten years only through ivf. I thought it was due to high no cells, tnf alpha and pcos as no other problems found but obviously there must other things going on. Nobody really knows why have never achieved a natural pregnancy.....

Duggs I started ttc at 29, dh has had standard tests done and were fine so if we are to have more ivf will have to try the fragmentation test.
We seem to be in a similar boat and think you are brave looking into adoption, I just don't know if it is for me or I just can't face the fact I can't have children. My plan us to see Mr Gafar to discuss this cycle and ask if it is worth trying hydroxy and 40mg pred instead of 25mg and then using our frostie. I think after that I would consider donor egg, surrogacy would be good but from what I can see it is v, v expensive!

Ari had never heard of balanced translocation so looking into that, thanks.

Duggs I am hearing you re the wanting to give birth thing , it's hard to give up trying to do it yourself. The whole thing just makes you want to scream!! Sounds like you are busy looking at all your options.

We'll I guess I will see what Mr Gafar can suggest for trying next but this cycle has knocked me for six as I pretty much had everything and still didn't work. Apologies for the large post and sounding so miserable. Hope everyone else is doing ok.x

[duggs1976]

Sounds sensible pebbles. I think if you try frostie and if that fails, get DH sperm fragmentation test done ( saw new life now do this too ) and then if that comes back ok then go for egg donor in serum (I guess?) with immunes.

I think we are going to try gonal F super ov for 3 cycles then my nhs ivf should be due again (delayed because of mc). We've gotten pregnant 5 times naturally - a heartbeat twice , a fetal pole and no heartbeat, a blighted ovum and a chemical and then we had the chemical / failed ivf cycle 18 mths ago. One was a trisomy. We did have bad sperm for 4 of these pregnancies. It looks like v high killer cells for the last 2

If all that fails then not sure as not sure donor eggs would be our solution ... Surrogacy would make more sense for us I think. Still looking into it.....

Pebbles well done for getting on with your birthday and if you want to chat we are here.

[Pebbles73]

God you have been through it Duggs, I am also worried that donor egg wouldn't be the answer and that I would just kill that off to.

Sounds like a good plan and hopefully you won't need the ivf.

Hope this miscarriage doesn't last too long so I can get in with frozen cycle. Mind you only one embryo so no guarantee it will survive the thawing process.

[suemays]

pebbles if you are throwing everything at the frostie, try acupuncture too. You will need to start before the process starts. Glad you ladies have a plan in place as I think it helps.
Feeling a bit tearful today as its a year anniversary of giving birth to scarlet. Will be lighting my candle tonight. Can't believe a whole year has gone.

[Pebbles73]

Will be thinking of you Sue, can't imagine how that must feel. Sending you hugs.

I have done accupuncture before and it did nothing for me, tried it for eczema and ivf! In fact it was the one time I didn't get a bfp with ivf. Also in top if everything else I just can't afford it at the moment.

[Buzzybee123]

sue thinking of you

[Arianrhod]

Sue thinking of you today

[duggs1976]

Big hug sue you've done so well to come this far x

Pebbles 10 yrs ttc is no mean feat honey. If only we knew what to do for the best. Were you on hydroxy ? Have you had nk cells retested for £230 as it might indicate they were higher and then try 4mg next time?

[duggs1976]

40mg

[ChoccyPud]

Sue I can't believe it's been a year. I hope today passes as peacefully as it can for you and dh xx

[suemays]

Thanks ladies, you were a massive support to me back then and still continue to be!

[Pebbles73]

No Duggs but seeing Mr Gafar on the 7th and asking if I can go on hydroxy and try 40mg pred next time anyway as don't fancy paying out for another test.

[Mel3062]

Sue hugs.
Louise said nk cells usually stay the same for a year but mine were done over a year ago and 1 mc and chemical later of course I could always pay out another £210 to see mr s...
I think after this biopsy wel see mr gorgy to cover all bases and see what he makes of it all.
Thinking of you all x