Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 5

[Mel3062]

Hope this is right ladies ...

Much the same as you pebbles ... so very tired of the fight. Surely it's way past time we were rewarded for all our determination and persistence? If there were an award for 'tenacity in the face of immense hurdles' I'm sure each and every one of us would be given it!

And understand what you mean about the form ... it's long, but I ended up actually writing even more on it than they asked! I found once I got stuck into it (and dug out my notes to add in) it went ok. But I definitely do understand the need to just be able to eat/drink/do what you want, it can be such a relief!

Here, here Ari I think we have all putore than enough effort into all of this! I hope your scan is better news for you tomorrow, you deserve a break!!

I filled in a lot of information for Mr Gafar last year before first ivf so I can copy a lot of that, I guess I am just putting it off which is a terrible habit of mine.

Good luck for today ladies I really hope it's positive.
It's all exhausting :(
Still no af yet for me :/ bloods cyclogest x

Heck I'm a Queen of Procrastination pebbles .. why do today what you can put off for another few weeks at least? ;)

Thanks both ... well still no Peak this morning so ov still not imminent, CD14 and really scratching my head. Typical, isn't it though - regular as clockwork all other months, this month when it all hangs on when I ov, it decides to play silly buggers. If this scan this morning doesn't show better news I think I may just throw it all out of the window, I'm sick to death of the whole thing! And yes, I know full well I may say different later, but that's how I feel right now. Just heard last night that OH's Dad has been taken into hospital because they discovered bleeding from a small tumour on his brain during a scan to see what's happening with a small tumour on his lung found a couple of months ago. He's 85, his Mum not far behind, and it's a dreadful blow for the family. I do NOT need cr@p on the fertility front on top of it, it needs to slot into place and do what it's told!!!

Sorry, whinge off :) Hope everyone else is chipper this morning, mel you think it's the cyclogest holding off AF??

Well that's a bust. Lining is 9mm which is good but still not trilaminar and my follie hasn't grown at all, still 13.4mm an no sign of ovulation. No clue what we do next, assume this cycle is a no-go :(

ari sorry to hear about your cycle. It's just typical that it's the crucial one. Do you think you might have been stressing which has caused this to happen? What does penny say?

belly good luck with the mock cycle today - is that at ZW?

mel could you have got ovulation day wrong? Maybe that's why you are late?

I got a bfn this morning so looks like I am out this month.

duggs hang on in there!

That's the funny thing sue, I wasn't stressed about this one at all. I had a really good feeling about this cycle, I don't know why but I did, and I was really happy that we were doing this on a natural cycle, without downreg drugs to mess my hormones around.

Bizarrely Penny is saying she's really happy about my lining, isn't bothered that the follicle hasn't grown and is still really positive. I don't understand it at all, most of the research I have read indicates that you have a much reduced chance of a successful implantation if your lining isn't trilaminar before ovulation (apparently it changes to homogenous after ov). She's asked me to get a progesterone blood test done today, to rule out natural progesterone which is something she said we don't want at this stage (pre-ov), so I'm doing that. But I really don't understand why she's still saying she's happy about my lining, and I've questioned it.

So sorry you got a BFN sue, are you planning to do SO for your next cycle or did I misremember?

Glad it isn't juste that puts things off Ari

What a complete bugger re ov/scan it is sooo typical! It's good that Penny isn't worried though so hopefully can all go ahead.

Sorry about the bfn's mel & sue.

Mmm pebbles I'm still not happy. I'm seeing very few people who ever get a successful pregnancy when they have a homogenous lining at this stage, it seems to be very rare. I honestly feel I would be throwing my money away if we continue. I've spent almost £1000 already this cycle, never mind the €5000 for the IVF itself, I cannot do that again next month. I just don't know what to do. :(

Oh .. I just had this from Penny "You not having a triple layer lining is expected because you had your endometrial scratch in the luteal phase of your previous cycle so it is more or less normal to have this appearance and it doesn't indicate that it is not suitable for implantation.".

Did anyone know that an endo scratch would do this? I've not seen it mentioned anywhere, but then I haven't explicitly searched. Why do people say you should have an endo scratch on Day 21 of an immediately preceding IVF cycle month if it's known to have this effect? Apparently pretty much all endo scratches are done to this timing - day 21 of one cycle, with IVF done the immediate following cycle.

This is all a bit much for me! Why can't anything just be straightforward?

Sue and Mel sorry for the bfns, and Ari sorry that you are feeling unsettled by everything. Any curve ball totally throws you when you are cycling doesn't it? You just don't need any added complication as that just adds to the stress. On a positive note it seems that Penny is fairly relaxed about the whole thing. Also sorry to hear about your OH's dad - never rains but it pours.

My lining was 6.1mm on day 13 which is fairly pants, but it is triple lined, which I suppose is a bonus. I am worried that my body is not absorbing the progynova as my lining usually measures the same on a natural cycle around this time. Anyway, I have emailed IVF Spain to see what they think/suggest. Weirdly I didn't have any follicles either - would that be because I took the pill on my last cycle or because I am old?! Any ideas other than l-arginine about foods/supplements that I can take to boost my lining?

My endo scratch is next Thurs (day 19) at ZW - hoping that is the right thing to do.

Hey Pebbles totally understand the whole mental fatigue thing. It sounds as though you have been enjoying having some normality though. We definitely need to remind ourselves that there is life beyond this struggle!

Duggs keeping everything crossed for you.

Hi Brown and anyone else lurking.

belly were you downregulated? I found that my last cycle, when I was downregd, I just didn't respond at all well to the progynova by itself, my lining was only barely 5.5mm on cd11. It got better by transfer time, but that was only after seriously ramping up the progynova (including having to have 2 internally every evening - yuck!). Could it be you would respond better on a 'natural' cycle - or possibly as I've been doing, a 'natural' cycle with a bit of extra progynova thrown in if you feel your E2 levels are suspect? Just a thought.

Follicles - that one I don't know I'm afraid; I am coming to the conclusion that ANY messing around with hormones (including the dreaded steroids) can really disrupt your natural way of things. I can't help remembering how taking 25mg steroids every month messed up my ovulation previously .. and here I am doing it again.

Endo scratch - well I keep reading report after report about how it helps with implantation, I cannot find anything that says you may end up without a trilaminar pattern lining the following month so it probably won't happen to you! Do let us know what your Spanish clinic say?

Sorry belly, forgot to say .. I honestly don't know that any of it does anything much to improve the lining, I've thrown the book at it this month and my lining measured the exact same as it used to do on superov without any extra oestrogen or anything else! But I've been taking:

• 6g l-arginine (2g 3 times a day)
• drinking copious quantities of ginger tea and nettle tea (good for blood flow, and ginger for anti-inflammatory)
• eating lots of protein and drinking one or two protein shakes a day (being veggie I'm not great on protein although I do try to eat one helping of Quorn a day generally)

Others also take high-dose vitamin E but as I think I mentioned I avoid that as it may increase NK cells. Also drinking raspberry leaf tea is supposed to help, and lots of people advocate acupuncture to help with lining.

Sorry ari
Duggs hopes all is well.
Had a fun day dr g wanted me to have a pregnancy blood test so off I dash from work, my doc is so good. I've got to get result tue and in meantime keep doing the meds. The only thing I can put it to ids cyclogest from ovulation. I got a postivr opk on day 12 feb 17th so even if ovulated by day 15, surely now something would show either spotting or preg test argh!!!

Crikey mel, it really drives you mental, doesn't it?

mel are you on steroids from OV? They played havoc with my cycles ranging from being to early to 10 days late. Mr s is aware that some women have this problem and advise to take preds for 10 days. That still didn't work for me so I will only take them from a bfp b

Yes I am, 40 mg hence no sleep from day 7!! It will be interesting to see what mr g says next x mr s had me on 25 mg from after ovulation before

Yep, they always messed with my cycles too, which is another thought of mine as to why this cycle isn't as expected. How are you doing today mel?

Well I'm totally fed up today .. still no sign at all of imminent ov, not that that matters, but I just got an email from Penny saying if I'm prepared to have another hysto then we'll cancel this cycle and do that instead! That's the one thing I can't do - it's another €1550 (plus flights) and then another cycle starting all the meds from scratch, lining scans, etc. Just too much money, I don't have it and can't get it. She said she was concerned that I'm not feeling positive about this egg transfer now and I know she sets great store by how you're feeling, I think she believes it has an impact on how well (or otherwise) a cycle may work. Well surely people can't be radiantly positive all the time in this game?? And surely I can be a bit worried if my lining doesn't look what everyone believes to be the optimal pattern? Fed up, don't know what to do now. If she believes cancelling the cycle is our best chance then b*gger it, I give up! :(

Going to go and kick something hard.

Just frustrated ari! At least there's no tests in the house.
I think I'll join you kicking something virtual hug. Penny sounded positive about your lining though, it's all so expensive isn't it :( never mind the travel, time and mentality of it all. We can't feel positive all the time no, I think we all cope bloody damn well most of the time! X

Ari please don't give up on this cycle- so ovulation is a bit later than expected so is she worried about timing of the donor re egg collection?? I think that we are well past "positive reinforcement" at this stage of the game.

As for me (sounds a bit self indulgent) but just had a 7 wk scan and saw baby and heartbeat measuring bang on for dates. Lovely lady at Amersham Sonographers...long,long way to go but a start.
Still have donor egg option app booked in as will be straight onto that if this doesn't work out....

Agate says pred can stop ovulation happening for some, this is so worrying
Ari I agree with duggs you've come so far.

Duggs that's positive news x

duggs That's just fantastic news, brightened my day up no end! :)

mel I think you'd need to be taking it for a few cycles before you'd have to worry about that - from what I can tell from those of us long-timers on here and the pred thread that have been affected by pred in that way, I think it's more likely to delay ov/mess around with cycle length/AF length rather than actually completely stop ov.

No, it's not the lack of ov that is a problem, Penny isn't bothered about that and I was only a bit concerned because it will mean that I don't have any natural progesterone to boost the extra I will be taking. It was just that my lining didn't look as it should that worried me, because I want max chance for a good implantation. Penny has now reiterated that she is not worried at all about my lining and says that she's seen this pattern with several ladies who have had an endo scratch in the UK so I guess it's just one of those things. She wants us to go ahead, and do embryo transfer next Sat. She also said if this cycle doesn't work (and she doesn't think that's the case) then we won't have to pay for our 'next trial'! Which is a great offer, although as I said earlier I don't think I can put myself through this again. We'll see.

Well that is decided then Ari. Penny is so brilliant isn't she? I think you have to go for it ari. You can't stop now... It really is all about that lovely young egg you are going to get..... Next Saturday it is then. Do you have flights booked already?

Thanks ari I so hope you're right.
It sounds like penny is hopeful for you x
Duggs I'm so happy for you, another hurdle x