Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage

[duggs1976]

Hey super ovulators and those struggling with infertility after miscarriage this is where we are! Come on over ...

Sue, I'd be interested to read anything that suggested DHEA could make egg quality worse; all the studies I've read are using it specifically as a treatment for premature ovarian failure. If you look at the Center of Human Reproduction's website you can find all the articles.
As to letrozole causing birth defects, do you mean the fact that India banned it? Subsequent studies have found it safer than clomid, so I don't think you need to worry about that. It has a very short half life, shorter than clomid, so it's out of the system very quickly, in days, and would not be present at the point of implantation.

'A Canadian study presented at the American Society of Reproductive Medicine 2005 Conference suggests that letrozole may increase the risk of birth defects. A more detailed ovulation induction follow-up study found that letrozole, compared with a control group of clomiphene, had significantly lower congenital malformations and chromosomal abnormalities at an overall rate of 2.4% (1.2% major malformations) compared with clomiphene 4.8% (3.0% major malformations).'

I think these figures are not much different from the natural rate of birth defects, although I've been unable to find a specific figure.

Brown thats very reassuring to hear about letrozole as I have read that it has higher success rates than clomid. I think drs don't use it due to the increased cost!

I will see if I can find the links on DHEA but it was saying basically that unless your hormone levels are tested regularly it can upset the balance. I have heard that the ARGC stop their patients from using it so there must be a reason they do that?? Wary of putting anything into my body without knowing what it does!! Any advice would be good!

This was one of the links:
haveababy.com/fertility-information/ivf-authority/dhea-and-ivf-harmful-in-certain-cases/

Sue my amh is virtually the same as yours and we are the same age. I am on day 9 stimms 375iu fostimon and 75iu Merinol, Buserelin 3ml, dexamethasone 1mg and an oestrogen patch (to thicken my womb lining). Was that similar to you?

My gut instinct was right, this is not a viable pregnancy. hCG results today show just a bit more than doubled since the last test 4 days ago, it's gone from 228.0 to 561.8 in 4 days. Progesterone has also dropped from 26.31 4 days ago to 15.64, which I don't understand since I am taking the same amount of progesterone as I was 4 days ago. But anyway, that's a moot point since the hCG level hasn't gone up anywhere near enough.

I guess it's going to be a case of stop all medications and let nature take its inevitable course, I'm just waiting for Penny to confirm. And then try to figure out a way to persuade OH that we/I can save up for another try in maybe Sept/Oct - I did tell him I wanted to give this 2 attempts but I think after the amount of money we've had to spend so far with meds and hysto etc - we're almost at £9.5K, which is a long way from the £5K we originally thought - he's going to say no way. Especially since my company have this morning just announced yet more redundancies, and both OH and I work for the same company in the same area, so it's highly possible/probably one of us will be affected.

Sorry for the negativity, hope you're all doing well today and positive in your onward plans. I think we've most likely come to the end of our road now, I just can't see a way forward from here.

ari what level hcg should it be then ? I thought it was ok if it was still doubling?
belly I was on 450iu menopur with 0.25 buserelin daily and the dexamethasone so completely different to you. I wonder why we were on such different drugs? I did the short protocol. My womb lining was over 8mm at last scan so was fine.

sue It's not still doubling, that's the problem. The test was 4 days apart, it's supposed to double in 2 days so should have quadrupled in the 4 days between the last test on Monday and today's. It hasn't even tripled in those 4 days.

I have heard that different clinics use different protocols and get different results - could it be that your particular protocol just didn't quite suit your body the best way possible? Just a thought.

ari I see sorry its not gone up quicker. It's worse when you are left in limbo than if you never got a bfp. I wonder what penny will say. I hear what you say about the cost side of things as we would keep doing ivf if we could afford it.

I agree that maybe the menopur didn't suit me, just did a quick google and older women tend to do better on fostimon. Annoyed if that's the case with me. Am now wondering if I should speak to the clinic and see if they would try it. DH still thinks we should try naturally!!!!

Waiting for my iui at the lister. DH has just performed so as we speak his sample is being cleaned up! Lovely!

belly is it zita west you are having ivf with?

sue So sorry to hear about the cancelled cycle, fingers crossed for your IUI/SO, I tried DHEA but it didn't do anything for me personally, but did for a friend, but I have an AMH of 1.1 NLC clinic do 3 IUI's for £1500,

brown I agree about dodgy tests, Morrisons are ok

bellyd good luck for Saturdays scan :)

ari I am so sorry its not good news, big hugs x

Ari so sorry it wasn't better news. Sending you a big hug. Let us know what Penny has to say.

Sue yes, am at ZW. Weird we were on diff drugs although I know you are at a different clinic. Will see what tomorrow holds.

I echo the above ladies why is it so hard and unfair for us all? X

Penny says she couldn't answer my email this morning because she was too upset! Bless her, she is so lovely, she really does seem to care about you as an individual. She says no more hCG shots, my progesterone has dropped because although the embryo is still growing it is slowing down almost at a stop. There is virtually no chance, she said to stop Clexane and neupogen but to carry on with just estrogen and progesterone for a few more days and retest bloods just to see what's happened. She believes it is simply too strong an immunological response (my elbows have been itching the past few days where my psoriasis is when I don't take Pred) and although she had really hoped the neupogen would do the trick it hasn't.

If anyone has any ideas how I can talk my OH (who isn't talking about it at all right now) into one more try in Sept/Oct (although of course I have to figure out how the heck to pay for it) and at the same time talk him into trying some different options (like 50-50 donor/his sperm or double donor altogether) then please let me know, because I have no idea.

On the DHEA front - FF does have several women who swear it made them more fertile. I thought I was overdosing myself when I was taking it unmonitored but oddly enough I had recently got my adrenals tested and found that I am way too low on my DHEA levels. So I may take a very low daily dose anyway, not for egg quality obviously but because I am deficient anyway. Funny how Nature laughs at you, isn't it - I could have sworn I was too high!

So sorry to read this xx

Ari, I'm really sorry to hear all this. What a long drawn out agony it must all be. And I'm sure that even though your head is telling you this isn't viable, your heart can't quite give up hoping that it's still going to work out.
As to DHEA, my acne is so bad that I feel I need a blood test to see what's what. I did have acne all my life until I had my DS, and pregnancy cured it completely for 4 years until I started the DHEA.
About 7 years ago I had my androgen levels tested because of the acne I had then (it was what I call 'ladies' acne' then, lots of small spots in the t-zone ('gravel'), as opposed to the 'men's acne' I now have, boils along the jawline ('boulders'), and my androgen levels were actually abnormally low. Although apparently that's common after you've come off the pill. So it's all a lot more complicated than you might think.
Why did you have your adrenals tested, Ari? As part of this IVF treatment? What is a 50-50 donor? Did you ever discuss the idea of your eggs and donor sperm or would your DH not even countenance the idea?

Hi everyone. Just to let you know and give hope to everyone Baby Lewis arrived 2 weeks ago. He is truly another miracle. He was 10 days overdue and weighed 7 lb 4 oz. Just a reminder that I am 45 and 6 months old.

Ari I like you always got pg very easily. After mc Dec12 and due to my age I went straight onto Super Ov. It didn't work. They also thought that my left ovary was not working properly. I have never had any fertility tests so have no idea if further tests would have shown up anything that questioned my chances of a successful pg. All I do know is that when trying naturally the first time after the failed SO I struck lucky. My mum thinks somehow the SO made me more fertile. Dr S said during the SO that it looked like the left ovary had been 'kickstarted' as the more I progressed through SO the left ovary did appear to start working. Not sure if this was simply down to the drugs ie perhaps it does not work properly now. Perhaps you could also try naturally for a couple of months whilst waiting for further funds. I recently took out a Sainsburys loan for 10 k and the interest is very low over the 5 year period. When was the last time you conceived naturally? I hope you don't mind me asking.

In regards to Dr S whether it was down to his treatment (which did fail a number of times) or whether it was a lucky egg, he did give me the strength to carry on as he was always positive that I would get there in the end. What he does wrong in my opinion is 'drip feed' the drugs to you so at the end of it you have no idea what treatment worked or whether it was a lucky egg. I don't know why he does not throw everything at it right from the start. The only reason I was on hydroxy is that I had read about it on this thread so I asked for it. When I asked for intralipids he said no on 2 previous occasions. This was when I saw him on the NHS albeit I was happy to pay for it privately. Number 6 mc Dr S suggested I could take pred but when I got pg and when I asked for it he said no as I had no trace of hnkc. So the one thing I have learned is to make sure you get all of the drugs a.s.a.p. i.e ask for everything, no drip feeding. Also ask for further blood tests as up until mc 9 I wasn't tested again and to my surprise I went from having no issues re nkc to vhkc so I was on the wrong treatment.

Anyway wishing everyone all the luck in the world. I am keeping my fingers crossed for all of you.

Congratulations Abney! That's wonderful news and something to give us all hope.
I personally agree with you that SO does something good. My right ovary wasn't working very often and with SO it does. Also it gives me a long luteal phase and also for the subsequent one or two natural cycles; usually mine can be 10 or 11 days (once 8!) but 13 or 14 with SO.

Abney congrats on your little boy

ari thinking of you, big hugs

I am feeling very unpregnant this morning, boobs hardly sore, nos sickness or tiredness its a never ending rollercoaster

abney you have made me feel 100% more positive after reading your story. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it, its made me decide to keep doing SO if iui doesn't work. Strangely enough, I conceived scarlet naturally last may after having two chemicals on SO in Jan and march so maybe it does kick start things.

buzzy the symptoms come and go so please don't stress too much!

ari what about surrogacy?

belly good luck with the scan.

abney did you take dhea?

I would do surrogacy like a shot. It answers almost every problem from my point of view. But it's so expensive because you've got IVF costs plus expenses for your surrogate. No guarantees it will work first time so that's potentially several IVF costs. Unless you can find someone willing to do it for free, and all my friends, sister etc. are as ancient as me. I did have one person offer who is in her mid thirties, and very fertile, but she is the last person I could let go through it as she suffers from severe sickness all the way through, and borderline pre-eclampsia in her last pregnancy. And she's so maternal that she probably wouldn't want to give the baby up at the end of it! So that's one reason to go through the proper channels, which means expenses.

brownstag I too would do surrogacy but you are right it costs so much, on average £15,000 and if it doesn't work first time it could cost more, why is so hard

Two of my friends have offered to surrogate using my eggs but seeing as I couldn't get enough for a standard ivf it wouldn't work. I think it would be too weird to use my friends eggs too as the baby would just be hers and my dhs and would be a half sister to her kids! DH wouldn't go down the surrogacy route anyway!

Hi all just got back early hours of this morning and trying to catch up on everything.

Ari I am so sorry that this isn't going in the right direction and can imagine how upset you are feeling. I hope you can persuade your dh to have another try with the 50:50 option. Maybe if you give him a bit of time to get his head round this try he might think about going again later in the year? It is so difficult isn't it when it comes to finding the money!!
Sending you a big hug and been thinking of you.

Also sorry to read your news Sue it's so hard when you have taken all the drugs and done all the preparation you can only for it to not work out. I will keep fingers crossed that the iui does the job and if not it sounds like you will go back to super ov which seemed to work pretty well for you..

Buzzy was sorry to read your news also and hope that this little bean is strong. Great start that you saw the heartbeat do fingers also crossed for you.

Abney congratulations on the birth of your son, it's great encouragement to the rest if us to keep going!!

Mel how are things with you and what have you decided going forward?

I have my last humira injection tomorrow and a very large form from Care to complete.

Waves to everyone else.

Abney huge congrats great to hear positive news interesting that the plan failed for you yet you got there so thanks it gives me hope.
Pebbles I'm hoping to get results mon then seeing mr s sat so think he may retest and maybe alter treatment dep on results. In the meantime taking Penys advice ;)
Maybe see mr gorgy not decided yet as this month has been pretty costly, ill see what mr s says. Don't think I'll go to see prof q as think itl confuse the issue x hope you had good break