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Infertility

Our Infertility Support forum is a space to connect with others in the same position, discuss causes, treatment and IVF, and share infertility stories of hope and success.

Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage

1000 replies

duggs1976 · 22/05/2013 19:49

Hey super ovulators and those struggling with infertility after miscarriage this is where we are! Come on over ...

OP posts:
buzzybee123 · 03/06/2013 14:53

ari I don't want to give you false hope but your HCG could be all over the place as maybe they are all trying to implant but maybe only one has. 4 days is another long torturous wait Hmm

well I feel calmer today, don't know how long it will last, I got a 3+ on the digi again so I am thinking the lull in HCG and symptoms is one of the twins not making it, now I have to see what happens with the other one, waiting for EPAU to call me back to move my scan to next Monday, I'm seeing Shehata on the 19th {if it carries on} for a scan and to discuss my meds.

Arianrhod · 03/06/2013 15:02

Ah yes buzzy, you do know that hCG drops if one twin doesn't make it? And then rises again, as the remaining twin's hCG carries on rising? I do so hope that's what has happened in your case!!!

Yes, I know, there are a lot of ifs-buts-maybes in this game. I don't want to hope, as I've seen it all go this way before, but human nature being what it is we always DO still hope, perhaps just a little, regardless. I can wait another 4 days, at least it will give the veins in my arms time to heal a bit! :)

buzzybee123 · 03/06/2013 16:13

I had 4 in 3 days and I didn't like it, so roll on Thursday

Mel3062 · 03/06/2013 18:52

Thanks ari for that and hoping things work out for you.
Antibiotics are ok and probiotics haven't arrived yet though af has!! And alot of it, 2 days early but surprised it wasn't delayed.
Buzzy fingers crossed!
Well had my rmc follow up today:

Chromosome test not back so will get a letter in 2 week as well as result of today's blood rest to check for virus antibodies! She said a hysterscopy would be good for me but an nhs one wouldn't remove debris, didn't tell her I'd had it done! She suggested I see prof quenby in Coventry in 2 weeks to check nk cells in womb but that costs £360! She said the fact I had chicken pox was interesting and that working in a school with no immunity is lethal!
Ari why do you take the neopegen? Does it not do the same as intralipds? Though if peni says to have it or mr s I will!
X

duggs1976 · 03/06/2013 19:23

Crickey Grin it's not often we get to hear of these kind of things. I must say ari and buzzy this is encouraging news. Can I add that when I had 2 perfect embies transferred and got a positive BFP after I started to bleed my HCG level was 54 and then 2 days later is was 18. That's all I'm saying. Figures very far apart from the ones quotes by Ari.
Fingers crossed for both of you. Also Ari try to remember a "naturally" conceived pregnancy wouldn't have Beta testing so there is hope but I understand your realism.

On a separate note I've just been to see a traditional Chinese medicine specialist on Harley street. He specialises in fertility - usually his patients are over 40. He used herbs.
I'm already having acupuncture locally but she doesn't use herbs.
He has diagnosed me with:
Liver and spleen disharmony and heat in my liver and kidney yin deficiency. Shock
All makes sense from my symptoms and my history etc.
I feel strangely calm and happy with this information as he said I'd be better off getting re balanced before I try to conceive again.
AF arrived today with a vengeance. Did order gonal F but going to save it a few months and give the natural route a chance. Does anyone know if it keeps a few months if I keep on fridge ? Is £300 worth so I hope so?
If anyone is interested in more info on this Area im happy to share Grin

OP posts:
Mel3062 · 03/06/2013 19:57

Yes duggs mines still in the fridge and I'm holding off too it has a good date on ;) sorry af got you it has me too today. Glad you had positive acupuncture, I have damp apparently! X

lemonsherbet · 03/06/2013 20:02

buzzy and ari have everything crossed for you. Am still lurking and holding out hope for you both.

duggs interesting what you said about eastern medicine. I do think that there is a role for it. It might be worth getting in balance for the IVF. Not sure about the meds.

sue how are things going?

Mel did she say why she thought you would need a uterine NK biopsy? I would of thought the amount of treatment you had had with Mr S would of brought them down. Does prof quenby not use steroids to.

pebbles hope you are getting some nice sun in spain and enjoying having a break.

I am doing OK. Getting towards the end. Strange to think I am 37 weeks at the moment and just ordered the mattress for the cot.

Mel3062 · 04/06/2013 05:41

As lemon exciting!!
She just asked if I'd seen her and I said no it was between her and mr s but didn't want to confuse idea by seeing them both with dif ideas so opted for mr s as he seemed most popular
. She just said it would be interesting to know and rule out as the ones in the uterus are quite different and if they come back positive I may need prog earlier -though peny said I didn't as I don't appear to have a latuel phase defect.
It's another load of cash and time off again.
She did say though not to have both prof quenby and hysterscopy (nhs) as they both stratch the womb to encourage implantation and look at the shape of uterus.
Umm now just don't know if to go anyway and get those cells tested though as treatment is similar I'm not sure of benefit or just to go for it now after my op ;)
Still don't get genetics or see mr s for 2 weeks and it'll be ovulation then so do I miss this month?
she doesn't think it's implantation as saw heartbeat so I reckon I either need high dose steroids ( a month of 5 mg like peny said daily for a month) or this hysterscopy has helped with my uterus it's just all guesswork still.
What do you think ladies??

lemonsherbet · 04/06/2013 08:20

mel it is hard to know one way or the other. Do you have a hysterscopy booked already? Since if you have already got that booked might be worth keeping it. What do you think Mr S will say or are you not going to tell him that you went to greece?

duggs1976 · 04/06/2013 08:55

Mel bit confused.com? Didn't you just go to Greece to have a hysteroscopy? Can you give a summary of your journey and findings so far then we can advise?? Is. Quite important as I got into a bit of a tangle with too many opinions at one stage from dr's so would like to get a re cap on you first Grin

OP posts:
Arianrhod · 04/06/2013 09:38

mel Well since you already had your hysteroscopy in Athens, which is far more thorough than you would have done here, I think we can safely assume your 'baby room' as Penny calls it is optimally set up for a baby now :) As for uNK cells - well that has to be your call, but the treatment is the same so is it really worth the extra £360? As I say, your call. I know Penny (and many other REs like her) does have her immunologically-challenged ladies on 5mg pred for a month before possible pregnancy (egg transfer if IVF obviously) which should calm down the immune system before a potential embryo is even on the scene. It makes sense to me.

It doesn't make sense however if you did have the uterine NK test to put you on progesterone earlier? Progesterone will have no effect whatsoever on NK cells, so I don't understand the thinking there?

Re the neupogen - it doesn't work in the same way as intralipids, no. Intralipids work to calm down the NK cells (bit like pred) but neupogen works by increasing your white blood cell count, in an immature form I understand, which in turns means there are less NK cells produced as the immature white blood cells stop the NK cells being created. That's my rough (very rough!) understanding of how neupogen works. That's why I stopped taking hydroxy, as they also work on white blood cells - I believe possibly in a similar way, although hydroxy nowhere near as much as neupogen, as if you recall you're supposed to have your white blood cell count monitored every 6 months while on hydroxy. On neupogen you're supposed to have it checked much more frequently - once a month I think - although I haven't had mine checked yet!

Bear in mind mel that Mr S does not know of neupogen (Louise confirmed this in an email when I told her initially of the protocol I would be following under Serum; Mr S would insist I stay on the high dose pred and hydroxy, Louise said they don't know about neupogen) as it's a protocol that Dr Braverman in the States pretty much pioneered, and Serum follow Dr B's protocols generally. So it won't be Mr S telling you to take it, that's definite!

duggs Very interesting to hear about the TCM chap you saw and his comments. Has he recommended a course of herbs for you then, and how often do you need to see him? I have heard of quite a few ladies who got pregnant after following a TCM practitioner's recommendations, I do believe they balance the body far better than the Western approach of just throwing medication at 'problems'. Meds-wise, there should be an expiry date on your gonal-f box, and they're usually quite a long time so keeping it in the fridge for a while should be just fine.

lemon So exciting that you're nearly ready to meet your LO! Do you know what 'colour' you're having, or is it a surprise?

buzzy Hope you're doing ok, and crossing fingers for Thursday!

/waves to everyone

buzzybee123 · 04/06/2013 13:44

ari I meant my fingers are crossed for you on Thursday, isn't that when you have your next blood test??

I woke up to spotting this morning so off down to EPAU, they scanned me I measure 2mm too small but there was a heartbeat at 6w1d, they said IVF babies measure small ??? who knows, just have to wait till next Wednesday now

Arianrhod · 04/06/2013 14:06

Ahh, sorry buzzy, misunderstood. Blood test on Friday for me, and Penny changed her mind and asked me to do more hCG shots (even though she said initially not to), so doing those as well. Just means I'll have to carry on doing bloods for a while, I guess, to see what happens once I'm no longer on extra hCG.

Well fantastic that there was a heartbeat, that's a great start! Interesting what they said about IVF babies measuring small, but encouraging :)

suemays · 04/06/2013 14:25

buzzy great news they saw a heartbeat! You are still in with a chance so I hope your miracle does happen!

duggs interesting about the Chinese medicine. What have they prescribed you? I still believe acupuncture is a help with TTC so I am hoping this path will work for you. It does feel like trial and error as what works for one person doesn't for another.

ari still keeping my fingers crossed for you!

I had my scan yesterday and out of the 10 follicles that were seen only 4 have matured to 15mm. I am happy with that so long as there are good eggs in each one. Will know more after my blood results this afternoon. If all ok I will be going for egg collection on Friday!

How are the other ivf ladies doing? belly how are you getting on with stimming? breezy have you started yet?

mel if your amh is ok and you have time on your side I would not stress too much about missing ovulation. It would be worse if you got pregnant and miscarried if you have not had all the testing done. Not saying you would miscarry but it would put you back if you did. Not sure what drugs etc you are on at the moment!

buzzybee123 · 04/06/2013 14:32

thanks ladies we shall see how it goes

ari how many more hcg shot will you have, well i'm not totally convinced about IVF babies being small but then I don't think they would lie

sue fingers crossed for EC on Friday, did you say you were at the Lister??

Arianrhod · 04/06/2013 15:19

sue Liking the 4 mature follies, sounds good to me! Let us know your blood test results, and then fingers cross for EC on Friday!

buzzy Well Penny said to do another three 2 days apart, so I had one yesterday, will have one Wed and the last Fri after my blood test.

And I doubt they would lie either - maybe in their experiences the babies they've seen have been small? Also possibly because IVF ladies often downreg for a period of time, their dates don't match up to the traditional way of working things out, so perhaps that's also why? The IVF calculator on the FF front page is really useful for working out your actual approximate current dating, if anyone's interested - it allows you to work out from egg collection date rather than the last time you had an AF: www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/index.php?ac=ivf

lemonsherbet · 04/06/2013 15:55

buzzy wanted to say congratulations, sounds like that little bean is a strong one.

sue 4 follicles sounds good. Just shows amh isn't everything.

ari is penny going to calculate how much the hcg should be for you, if you are still having rescue shots?

buzzybee123 · 04/06/2013 15:56

thanks ari my dates do match up according to FF, I'm eating crap so not giving the baby ant nutrition right now

lemonsherbet · 04/06/2013 16:10

buzzy from what I understand it will just take from your stores anyway. So you are providing nutrition.

buzzybee123 · 04/06/2013 16:54

ah that would explain why I feel so crap, i've just eaten a bowl of peas and sweetcorn Hmm

Mel3062 · 04/06/2013 17:35

Ah buzzy great news.
Thanks ladies sorry for confusion . Yes had hysterscopy in Athens so def wouldn't have the nhs one but it was interesting to know that they would offer one.
Nhs consultant said not to have hysterscopy as well as uterine test as they both check uterus shape and do a scrape. Just wondered what I would get out of going for the uterine test when I'm on pred already and peny doesn't think I need extra cyclogest!
Thanks for heads up about mr s and neopegen I guess I'll have to see what peny or mr s say when I get pregnant again.
Waves to all

Mel3062 · 04/06/2013 18:59

So neopegen is better than hydroxy? X

Mel3062 · 05/06/2013 07:34

Just wondering if to get hla/dqa test done with dr gorgy or mr s? Especially as mr s is not prescribing neopegen x does hydroxy do a similar job?

duggs1976 · 05/06/2013 09:05

I would say dr Gorgy every time if your case isn't simple nk cells! But if you havent seen him before then you have the added expense of initial consultations etc. But reckon he is more thorough!

OP posts:
Arianrhod · 05/06/2013 09:28

mel I'd say Dr G is more thorough, and tests for more things, as duggs says. Neupogen and hydroxy are different things, and do different things, although they both act on the white blood cells. I understand neupogen to be far stronger in its effect. I don't know if Dr G prescribes neupogen - he may do, but I don't know? But do you know if you actually need neupogen? It's not something to mess around with casually - it can have serious side effects. Hydroxy, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't.

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