Secondary infertility

[YorkshireTeaDrinker]

Am in cycle 19 TTC #2. We have a beautiful DD who took a while to conceive (managed on cycle 16, got my BFP the day before our referral appointment for fertility treatment!) so I expected it to take a while to get a second. However, time is ticking by (am 37) and I really do want DD to have a sibling, so I have been to the GP. First set of investigations have been done and and DH and I have an appointment with the GP this afternoon to get test results and hopefully a referral.

I am feeling a strange combination of emotions. I feel a bit guilty for wanting another child so much when I already have a wonderful DD. I am worried about what treatment may be necessary, how we can pay for it, even if it would be appropriate to fund trying to conceive another child when we could spend those resources on giving the child we already have the best possible start in life.

I even feel a tiny bit guilty for even posting this here, as I already have a child and should be grateful for what I have (and I am, very much). But I can't help longing for another, I get so envious of friends who have / are going on to have second children (and in some cases contemplating a third). I am a mummy, I no longer have to deal with the awful feeling of wondering if I will ever know the joy of parenthood, but every month I have the same disappointment and sense of failure when AF arrives, coupled with the anxiety that every month lost makes the potential age gap bigger.

So please tell me your good news about secondary infertility. Did you get your BFP eventually? Or did you manage to come to terms with not having another and make the most of your smaller than planned family? And if you did go down the path of intervention, what did it involve? Was it successful? Do you have any regrets?

I have just read all you posts and have laughed and cried all at the same time within a twenty minute period. Sometimes no one can understand unless they have been in your shoes. I didn't even know the words secondary infertility existed until we started TTC #2. We have a DD aged 4 1/2 who is wonderful and all the time people say when's the next one? I used to make something up like I didn't want another no time etc ...... Now I just say I can't conceive I'm infertile it shuts people up quite quick! I have a lot of scarring due to an EMCS has anybody else had the laparoscopy to get rid of it did it work? My doctor has been really good so I feel really bad for people who aren't getting access to testing etc. anyway fingers crossed for everybody xxxx

Hmm, what's this about laparoscopy to get rid of scarring?
I have some scarring too, but I am not sure that it is affecting fertility.

For me, that is, but I am interested to know more...

My doctor told me today after a trans vaginal scan that she wants to perform a laparoscopy to get rid of the scar tissue as it could be affecting conception. She also said I could conceive naturally as well and until she goes in she won't know the extent of the damage. My womb is distorted from the scarring so implantation could be the problem. She also said people who have had a section generally take longer to conceive especially if they have scarring but it's all percentages as generally people aren't 100% fertile or 100% infertile so I might just need to up my chances by removing the scarring she is also giving my tubes a MOT (cleaning them with pipe cleaners perhaps?.....) :) scarring can affect fertility but it might not effect you as everyone different.

I'm so glad I found this thread! I have felt so utterly alone with this secondary infertility nightmare. Anyway, I'm 39, had my 5 year old easily like everyone else. We had miscarriages back then though, but pregnancy was easy so it was assumed it would be again. Ha! Wasn't I the fool.

Three years later, three IVFS and almost every test possible and I haven't been pregnant even once. How does this happen? We've transferred top quality embryos every single time, one that was PGD tested normal and NOTHING. I'm so devastated and tired of this process and so angry of the time I've missed with my little guy :( Not to mention the loneliness I imagine he's suffering without a sibling. Gawd, this sucks. And of course, everyone has had their second and are onto number three/four. I found out a month ago that a neighbour had an accidental pregnancy at 46. What the hell is wrong with me?!

Anyway, we've stopped trying for the next couple of months while I see the one and only Reproductive Immunologist in Australia as our last option left. If this isn't an immune issue it's likely age related and our only option is donor or adoption. My husband wants neither. I will likely end up with one child and the desperation I feel about this is eating me alive.

I'm so glad I've found you ladies. I hope this thread is still open and stays open, and if anyone else here is from Australia I'd love to know how you're doing, as everyone here seems to have about three kids each and I feel like a failure every day I leave the house.

Sorry for the Debbie Downer post. This has been a very long ride.

I thought I'd also mention that the age gap isn't really an issue in my mind. I was the eldest of three girls and my sister who is six years younger is one of my best friends - the sister with less than two years than me is NOT a friend. My neighbour has eleven years between hers and they get in great! I'd take any gap at this point - sadly I suspect I won't be so lucky.

Yep, still Debbie Downer, lol

Hello DebbieDownunder. Your situation souds desperate - it is utterly soul destroying. And your neighbour falling pg at 46 by accident? - total cow! My continuing-to-be-rubbish counsellor told me last week that she wasn't maternal and hadn't even wanted a second but her husband persuaded her. The more I think about it the more I think I need a new counsellor. I'm glad you have that apt coming up - do keep us posted.

Had a bit of a downer last night. Friend who shared my due date for second mc had a baby girl on Saturday. I weathered it fine for a few days (which in itself had me worried - I knew I shouldn't have - thought I was getting off lightly). Anyway the chickens came home to roost last night. And I feel ok today. I just don't know how to process it all. I have never been one for compartmentalising my feelings but I am finding I have to avoid thinking about it, which of course leaves it all bubbling away in my subconscious.

I've just had a really short period too. Stress? I'm usually a (tmi alert) 7 full days of quite heavy stuff, wearing layers of protection for the first few. I am feeling sad my body isn't even having a proper womb lining to shed. It's all rubbish.

AND my phone won't let me post here, stupid pile of crap.

Cakey - are you going for your lap? Did your doc mention that you'd have to wait a few months after to let your area recover? It wasn't mentioned to me till after, but your doc sounds sensible at least.

My doctor was very reassuring I really felt she knew what she was talking about. I didn't ask all the questions at the time that keep popping into my head now!!! Very frustrating I was a bit over whelmed at the time to be told there was a problem but I was hugely relieved that she didn't just say its one of those things. I feel huge sympathy for those that have to hear that must be a nightmare. At least I know what the problem is. Does anybody know if it's acceptable to email or write a letter to your consultant to ask them any question that you didn't think of at the time? I don't want to be a pain but it's at least 18 weeks until my lap I might go crazy by then? I'm not sure about how long I have to wait after. I have never heard of a c section affecting secondary infertility until I came I here but I had a pretty horrific first labour and birth so I wasn't completely surprised. Although I have a very healthy four year old and for that I am eternally grateful. Doesn't ever stop you wanting a second though does it??

Thanks Voila, it really is a desperate situation! But I also think maybe time is slowly ebbing away my resolve to keep trying. I don't know - they never figured out why we can't get pregnant again and that sucks! I mean, how does someone go from super fertile at 34 to completely infertile at 36?? Seems BS to me but so far there are no answers. I'll see what this immune testing reveals (Dr Beer tests apparently; they're sent to Chicago from Australia) and if nothing is flagged I might try IVF with immune treatment anyway and then finally admit defeat :(

And sorry you're down too. Your counsellor seems to share a lot of her opinions. Have you thought of trying a counsellor at a fertility clinic? They really understand this issue better than most and wouldn't dare mention their own pregnancies! But at least you're seeing someone - I should do that.

Missteacake, I had a lap mid last year and did IVF two months after. Recovery wasn't too bad, just a bit of bloating and my first period was heavy and painful. I didn't have scarring like you but got scraped out anyway, tubes flushed etc, and honestly my doctor would have let me do IVF the first month but we were waiting on results that took time. (The natural killer cells biopsy - negative of course, but worth checking.) So I'm guessing you'll be able to TTC as soon as you feel okay.

Has anyone here had immune testing? I'm curious about the treatment, and the allo immune tests. Apparently some of us can form a reaction to further pregnancies because we carry similar genes to our partners. I don't see how this is possible when my husband and I are from different countries! But I guess we need to cross the T's and all that. Our appointment is at end of month so I'll be sure to share what the specialist says.

I'm sure someone else I know will be pregnant by then too. My best friend and sister are both expecting now. Ugh. I'm starting to think my husband would do a better job at pregnancy than me.

Thank you downunder that's very reassuring to know. Good luck with your immunologist appointment hope you get some answers.

I'm sorry, I haven't read the full thread, but wanted to add my support to all of you suffering with secondary infertility. It is the most frustrating thing to be told that there is no explanation other than being older.

My story is that it took 3 months to conceive ds1 (I was 35 at the time). When he was a toddler I thought I had accidentally fallen pregnant and remember looking at the test and being really upset and thinking 'oh no!' and how much that came back to haunt me when I struggled to get pregnant a second time. I had all the available tests, including ovarian reserve, and hysterosalpingogram and everything came back as normal. I had a chemical pregancy after 24 cycles of trying. I was obsessed with the idea of getting pregnant and would test from way too early before my period was due and of course get loads of negative tests. I spent a fortune! I finally fell pregnant on the 36th month of trying and at age 40, having registered to go for IVF, but before starting any drugs. This pregnancy stuck and turned out to be twins!

I got so annoyed with the number of times people said 'just relax and it'll happen' 'at least you've got one healthy child' etc etc, because it really wasn't helpful to hear. I distanced myself from people I'd met when ds1 was a baby, because they were having their 2nd and 3rd children and I found it really tough to be around them.

I also seem to remember a book called Taking Charge Of Your Fertility was useful (I don't have it anymore, I gave it to a friend in a similar situation and she also went on to have a second child after much heartache and a bigger gap than she'd 'planned' .)

I really feel for you ladies who are in the position that I was in - I know how depressing it is, but how it's something very few people understand, unless they've been there too. And I also know that hearing my story might make a lot of you think 'well it's okay for you, then, but you're not me!' and I understand that, too! But I did want to share, as I'm think I'm probably older than most of you and think that it might perhaps help people who fear they are getting too old.

Best of luck xx

Thanks Rosina - I do like a success story to keep us going! I conceived my son the cycle after a ridiculously indulgent 2 weeks on a sun lounger in Thailand so I buyinto the "relax" narrative....though sadly for me it would also take a medical miracle (blocked remaining tube). And with a 3 year old when would I get time to lie down with a stack of books for two weeks? We have considered a holiday without ds but couldn't bring ourselves to follow through. And we want to spend timewith him and cherish him if he's the only one. And.....now I am tied in knots again. Stress cycle!!

Twins though? Argh! Delightful and yet terrifying! Have they arrived or are you pg now?

Downunder glad your lap recovery was swift. Guess mine might be pulling a bit due to tube removal....and anyway I am now basically barren so the conception after part was all a bit moot anyway. I think a fertility counsellor eould be of more use, need to look into.

Viola, you need a new counsellor, she is not being constructive at all! Friends having babies is the wirst as you have to be happy for them, they feel guilty for you and everyone ends up feeling awkward...

Rosina, twins will be great, happy news after a lot of heartache.

Viola relaxing is great. Being told to relax often had the opposite effect on me! (Although I do wonder in hindsight whether the fact that we'd started down the IVF route made me less stressed as I was being proactive?) And given what you've said above, a holiday without your ds might not be as indulgent and relaxed as before - you'd be thinking about him all the time! How about an indulgent weekend away, though?

My twins are very much here (born 2010), very hard work and very much loved and cherished. But yes, delightful and terrifying just about sums them up!!

Rosina, that's a great success story! I'm 40 later this year so definitely in the 'old' bracket. Thing is, I can't imagine trying for 36 months so you're far stronger than I am! I've gone crazy trying off and on for 24 months with IVF thrown in. I'm ready to give up I'm so over it. Does the bfn each time you get a period ever get easier?! I don't even bother testing anymore, and the next couple of months I'm not even trying at all as I need a break. I'm also convinced I'm having really early chemicals off and on too, another sign things are just not working anymore. So unfair.

I know for me it's probably time to move on and find acceptance as there really is no reason for my infertility other than age and there's no fixing that! Still, how do we let go of the family we always wanted? Can only children be happy, fulfilled children?

Will this get easier with time?? :(

I thought I would share my story. Ds was conceived in the second cycle and as he was premmie was actually born on our 9 month wedding anniversary .

Dd was another story entirely and I lost the plot. She took 18 cycles to conceive. It was the month we went to the fertility clinic that I got pregnant. All tests before that had come back normal. We didn't do anything differently. We were under external stress but had just had a lovely holiday. It was just one of those things. I had just taken up running and lost a bit of weight. But wasn't huge to start with.

Anyway when I look at dd now I think she was worth the wait. We wouldn't of had her otherwise. She is wonderful.

I was also on a thread similar to this. I tried alternative stuff snd think hypnotherapy helped me relax and focus on other things.

Rosina your twins are the same age as my son then! I absolutely cannot imagine two of him! When we were told IVF was the only way I started fantasising about twins - girls actually, no idea why. I think I am sadly, like Downunder, needing to draw a line and come to terms with my family being complete as it is. It is really hard. I think it was the ectopic society that has a pdf on deciding to stop and they say it's common to make and unmake the decision many times. Downunder I am the same age as you - milestone later this year. Feels a bit devastating given the situation I find myself in.

Anyway - distraction distraction! But is is also good to let it out, especially with you lot who understand and don't spout meaningless claptrap. Halle, thanks for sharing your story - I do like a success story! Can I ask, did you also try acupuncture? It is so expensive but I am tempted, though not sure how many sessions would be required. Can't pay £50/session weekly for the foreseeable!

In other news, I am wearing a new top and look quite nice today

I tried acupuncture but not convinced it helped. Its a bit woo for me.

I wish there was a way of having IVF without noticing so much. I would do it in a flash if it was low key and didn't involve massive hope and crashing disappointment. (I'd also have to have the other tube removed I think, something about toxic leaking.) I'd do it if it wasn't a big deal.

Thanks Halle. How many did you try?

I had a few sessions. I can't remember it was 4 years ago now.

I too am a bit anti-woo - I think you need to not be sceptical for it to work. Do you think running was a better de stressor? Toying with starting when the weather improves, think it would be good for my mental state. I had a natal hypnotherapy cd, it was excellent for napping to

Gawd, I just want the moon on a stick! Is it really too much to ask??

I did c2 5k and got half way through the programme before getting pregnant. I think it gave me something else to focus on.

Voila, what month do you leave your thirties forever? I'm turning 40 I'm August and I'm not happy about it! I figured I'd have a baby by now for distraction but that doesn't look to be the case. I will be hitting this milestone sans second child and it's only making it worse. Ugh, I wanna time machine! I'd go back and have three kids in my twenties like my sister. I always thought she was crazy for that, but now I think she was the smart one.

And not a woo fan here either. I was drunk, eating holiday food and staying up all night when I conceived DS around christmas 2007 without realizing, yet apparently now I need to eat organic, quit wine (no way!) and get needles stuck in me to conceive?! Yeah, I doubt that. If that we're the case, three quarters of the worlds population wouldn't exist. Luckily, my fertility specialist thinks it's all nonsense too. Still, I try to do everything in moderation, which I wasn't exactly doing when I conceived DS in the middle or holiday party season, lol.

And Voila, I don't find the IVF process too bad physically. It's a little annoying time wise, but the injections and egg retrieval weren't as bad as expected. I had 17 eggs out last try and felt great a week later. However, you're right about the crash if it fails. I won't even sugar coat that part as it really is SO much worse getting a bfn after IVF than just trying naturally. It's like a major slap in the face after all the time and money and then nothing. That's why I'm stuck thinking I might just move on now as I'm really not sure I can go through it again. Though, my first couple of goes I coped better than number. 3, so maybe try once and see how you feel? But I completely understand if you can't, as I'm there with you :(

I need a distraction too. At least it's summer here so I'm getting out a lot and swimming etc. I turn 40 in the middle of winter though, so stay tuned for more sob stories lol