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Is David Cameron talking out of his own back passage?

173 replies

tiredemma · 06/04/2010 10:41

On BBC 1 now- talking about how the Conservative Party will sort this country out once and for all.

Well, will they?? or is it all hot air?

Im undecided about my vote- Im a Labour voter normally but have become disenchanted by that party- but remain sceptical about the Tories.

Im unsure about DC and his crew.

OP posts:
PfftTheMagicDragon · 08/04/2010 15:10

DOn't need any more than the title.

He is always talking out of his arse. He will say whatever he needs to say to get into power. The fact that he has been so reluctant to speak about hard policy should tell you everything you need to know.

As for the economy - we would be better off electing Bungle and Zippy to help us out of it.

sherby · 08/04/2010 15:13

"Goldie Hawn is negotiating with the Tories to set up a state school using a pioneering teaching method, but do we really want a Hollywood actress involved in the British education system? ?I?m a man of a certain age, so of course I like Goldie. If she is offering an enhanced experience for children, parents will ask for it. Cheryl Cole could help out if she wanted. She did a brilliant job with Joe McElderry"

OMFG

atlantis · 08/04/2010 15:33

"What exactly do they mean by teaching them the basics? ..."

Reading, writing and math would be a start wouldn't it? Not to mention a good basis in science before they leave primary school.

We have children who leave school unable to do this now thanks to Mr Balls and the government who have ruined the education system.

"They are telling voters what they want to hear. "

Yes, they are telling them that they will fix what is wrong with the schools system, they are telling them that children will get an education not a twitter-fest under the conservatives, what's wrong with giving children a decent education? As a parent it is certainly something I want to hear.

atlantis · 08/04/2010 15:34

"He is always talking out of his arse. He will say whatever he needs to say to get into power."

Unlike Brown I suppose who hasn't been lying his butt off to try and stay in power?

barefootinthepark · 08/04/2010 15:46

hear hear atlantis

education education education was their motto

bolleaux bolleaux bolleaux is their watchword

cornsilk · 08/04/2010 15:47

Reading, writing and math - do you think they are not taught these subjects already? How exactly will the tories change this?

cornsilk · 08/04/2010 15:47

sherby - exactly! Scary stuff.

barefootinthepark · 08/04/2010 15:48

115000 children leaving primary school two years behind in English?

no I do not

cornsilk · 08/04/2010 15:49

so what will the tories do apart from changing the goalposts to improve on that?

cornsilk · 08/04/2010 15:50

barefoot in the park - that figure you quote - where is it from and what % of the general population is it supposed to represent?

barefootinthepark · 08/04/2010 16:02

this is the evening standard but they were everywhere

barefootinthepark · 08/04/2010 16:24

The way I see it, is that primary education at the moment suits the middle class child, with well-educated parents, very well indeed.

These parents will do the reading with the child that the teacher can't. They will rehearse/chant/rote the times tables that there may not be time in class. They will correct their spelling and punctuation when teachers don't. They will help with the boring homework sheets that they didn't do at school because they were too busy dressing up or role playing or debating or being lovely and rounded.

However, for the children who don't have parents like that, this system is a disaster. Children with chaotic lives, overworked, exhausted, even don't-care parents, who aren't listened to, aren't practised at tables, can't complete the homework, and basically get set up for failure.

A "return to basics" at school would not mean abandoning the lovely rounded part: or not all of it. It would mean ensuring that the basics are taught to children first and foremost: in a way that does not require any parental input at all. In a class of thirty, that may well mean techniques that teachers have to work harder to make interesting.

Sitting in rows is generally not boring and restrictive unless the teacher is dull. It may be boring not to be able to talk to your friends but that is entirely the point.

If these things were dealt with at school, if more traditional methods were encouraged, perhaps teachers might be more bored. But I doubt it. Teaching has moved on so much in forty years, it's inevitable that the interesting, the integrated, the engaging and the motivating forces will be retained.

But it will mean children from disadvantaged backgrounds will have a school that could actually rescue them from failure.

smallwhitecat · 08/04/2010 16:31

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herbietea · 08/04/2010 16:41

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LilyBolero · 08/04/2010 16:42

The thing is, I just think that the Tories have latched on to this 'traditional education' because it sounds good.

Some things NEED to be taught like that. Times tables for example. My ds1 is VERY hot on mental arithmetic partly because his tables have been drilled into him, partly because his teacher has taught them really good concepts, so even a sum that he doesn't 'know' (eg 19x14) he can break down.

(Incidentally, the Tories cite Canada as a country to emulate, and I know lots of schools in Canada have abandoned the teaching of times tables).

Some things I think are much better taught in a much more exploratory way - eg history - my kids get enthused about history when the characters come alive, not just because they have learnt a load of facts and dates.

barefootinthepark · 08/04/2010 17:00

Perhaps it's because many of them had a traditional education and see that it worked.

SethStarkaddersMum · 08/04/2010 17:21

also because it's what employers want - they complain that the emphasis on 'soft' skills means that they are getting school-leavers with poor English and numeracy. And academics in some subjects are saying the same....

wubblybubbly · 08/04/2010 17:57

I'm afraid I don't know what era this 'traditional' education refers to?

I've said before, I was educated during the 80's. We didn't sit in rows, we worked in groups and pairs, we were allowed to use calculators, including in exams and we sat a combination of GCE, CSE and the all new 16+ (the forerunner to the GCSE).

So what era are the tories proposing we go back to and what exactly does it entail?

barefootinthepark · 08/04/2010 18:06

All sorts of wishy washy nonsense was already well established by the eighties

wubblybubbly · 08/04/2010 18:09

So when are we talking about then barefoot?

What is this magical era when the entire population of children left school well rounded young adults, spouting their times tables whilst thumbing their thesaurus?

barefootinthepark · 08/04/2010 18:12

Wubbly, your sarcasm leads me to believe that you think there's been no decline in educational standards. Am I right there?

wubblybubbly · 08/04/2010 18:13

A decline since when barefoot? I can't ansswer your question until someone explains to me what I'm comparing today's standard too.

Miggsie · 08/04/2010 18:21

David Cameron would lose a debate with my six yo old DD.

And so would Carol Voorderman. She's no fitter to advise on maths and science than I am.

I don't like their latching onto celebrities to do everything, as if they cannot believe in their policies so they have to jazz them up.

And whatever policy they do introduce, they'll still have the same bunch of time wasting civil servants introducing the stuff and defending their own jobs rather than actually doing anything.

So very little will get done either way.

LilyBolero · 08/04/2010 18:25

Certainly yesterday my 8 year old was doing mental arithmetic, my friend and I were trying to check if he was correct - took us a good 5-10 mins to do what he'd done in 20 secs. And I have an A at A Level maths.

claig · 08/04/2010 18:49

LilyBolero, sounds like you may need to go back to school under the Tories' traditional education scheme. You may have had the misfortune to pass through the education system when the new fangled methods were in full force.