Is David Cameron talking out of his own back passage?

[tiredemma]

On BBC 1 now- talking about how the Conservative Party will sort this country out once and for all.

Well, will they?? or is it all hot air?

Im undecided about my vote- Im a Labour voter normally but have become disenchanted by that party- but remain sceptical about the Tories.

Im unsure about DC and his crew.

My authority has the system of frantic ringing and redialling from 8am, usually followed by failure. Or two weeks ahead.

we're aged p's together atlantis

so your first vote was ..83?

I do think Cameron will be better than Brown, Brown believes in throwing benefits at people to keep voters whilst Cameron believe in a good work ethic.

I'd love a party who would scrap tax credits, far too many people are now in receipt of benefits after reducing their hours or simply not working. Millions could be saved if the benefit was scrapped and only paid to those who physically cannot work to support themselves or who have a child that requires care due to a disability/illness.

"so your first vote was ..83? "

I just missed out on 83, it was 87, ahh those were the days!

The point about the 'rows of desks' is that it is not part of a well researched and well thought out education policy, but part of a 'let's go back to the good old days when kids learned the kings and queens of england' campaign, in an effort to get all those people who say 'Education isn't what it used to be'....

They want to teach history as a narrative - start at day 1, and progress through. My mum said she was taught in that way. Only problem is, she dropped it at age 14 and only got as far as the 1830s, so did no 20th century history at all - we would have a generation of children not learning ANYTHING about the 2 world wars for example.

I am REALLY happy with my kids' primary education - they are in a lovely school, which has a very mixed intake, comes in about average on the league tables, but they are FLYING. Ds1's mental maths is WAY ahead of mine (and I have an A at A Level maths), dd writes amazing stories, and they both have a really good grasp on history. And sometimes they sit in rows, sometimes in groups. The sitting in rows isn't really the issue, it's the grasping onto that concept as a way of getting 'tradionalist' voters, rather than because it's what's best for the children.

"PMSL atlantis @ all treatment must be concluded within 18 weeks."

Actually I didn't say that morningpaper was explaining that is the 'target' I was saying I had waited 8 months for a appointment with a neurologist, so i'm not sure what your trying to say?

"'let's go back to the good old days when kids learned the kings and queens of england' campaign,..."

I don't think it's that at all, other countries learn their own history (which is probably why they are more patriotic)from start to finish, if you can't go through a countries history in 10 years plus your doing something wrong, no one should be teaching young primary school children about the world wars which would free up that time to learn about the kings and queens, which they would be more receptive too given it's quite 'fanciful' nature of knights and princesses.

"On the rows of desks question, there is a theory that one of the reasons why autism is far more widely diagnosed than it used to be is that children with milder ASDs could actually cope with more old-fashioned, structured approaches to education; now everything's more fluid etc they struggle. This may well be utter bollocks but certainly I think my ds will cope with a much more structured, timetabled, here's your desk and here's your work approach so from a selfish point of view I'd welcome it. "

Thats very interesting my DD has AS and can not cope with school as is, so hopefully this will help a great deal of many children.

There is also the point that it's so easy for children to be draw into bad behaviour in a group and for a child to be continuously picked on by the teacher as the culprit (something the sen teacher noted about my DD getting the blame even when it wasn't her fault which lead to the feeling of persecution and therefore withdrawl from participation) so behavourial issues may come into play as well.

smallwhitecat - I'm sure some children would benefit from that. But some wouldn't. And surely it should be up to the teacher to work out what works best for them and their class, rather than have some Whitehall intiative that says that 'all children shall now sit in rows of desks.'?

As far as teaching history as a narrative goes, my mother REALLY wishes she had SOME knowledge of 20th century history. And I think EVERY child should learn about modern history, it is too important for kids NOT to know about.

Lots of children cope better with a more structured approach to teaching.

I can remember my first day at school aged 4 being shocked to the core that the pupils sat on tables of 6 or 8 and we did painting ALL afternoon!!! This was after going to a lovely strucured nursery school where we sat at desks in pairs and could all write our personal details and knew our numbers by the time we left.

This was the loony lefty 70's when freedom to learn and discover through play was the in thing! What a load of rubbish.

am snorting at the idea that Labour allows teachers to work out what works best rather than indulging in whitehall initiatives

Hmmm loony left, 1970's, oil crisis, unions holding the country to ransom. Same old same old......

probonbon - I'm sure they don't. But at least they're not proposing that Carol Vorderman starts setting the National Curriculum....

I know they don't.

If that is that the depth of your understanding of and your objections to Conservative education policy Lily I would hope that's not reflected across the teaching community.

probonbon - I'm not a teacher. I am a concerned parent who does not want ANOTHER generation of experimentation on our children. My own primary education was full of 'new' education. And if they start 'rewriting the NC from day 1' then our primary aged children are going to be the guinea pigs with teachers having to spend so much time learning the 'new' way of doing things that they have no time to teach.

And I do think that the idea of getting 'celebs' to advise is total crap. CAROL VORDERMAN on maths? ROBERT WINSTON on science? WHY? Because they are 'names'. And I don't think that is the best qualification for advising on education policy tbh.

My kids are currently enjoying a great primary education. I hope that isn't wrecked by this election.

and actually probonbon, I find your last post pretty patronising - you have no idea what my 'understanding' of education policy is - on a talk board like this, things are inevitably contracted.

I can get to see a GP the same day, so long as I'm happy to see any of the regular 4 in the practice. Or I can make an appointment for weeks in advance, if that's what I want.

My local hospital had a back log of CT scans, meaning people were having to wait longer than they should. They simply opened up the scan room on a Sunday and got the patients seen. My GP made sure I was one of the first on the list.

I can ring my GP for a chat if I need to. She's more than happy to call me back if she's with a patient.

Perhaps we're just really lucky up here in the North East?

Dunno about the desks in straight lines. I was at school during the 80's and there were no lines in primary school and very few in secondary.

smallwhitecat - I don't actually think that 'putting desks in rows' and 'teaching kings and queens of england' is a 'return' to traditional methods. I think it's a bit of a 'rose-tinted glasses' way of looking at the 'good old days'.

Much better to train primary teachers well, and let them TEACH rather than micro-managing. For example, at my kids' school they use a lot of music cross-curriculum, which they can do because that is where some of their teaching strengths lie. Wouldn't work in lots of schools, but perhaps in another school a really fantastic art teacher can use art in a similar way etc etc. It's about allowing schools to USE their strengths in an imaginative and constructive way, not stifling them with orders to 'sit in rows and teach dates'.

I agree Lilly.

The sitting in rows things is just daft. Teachers do this when we think it is suitable. If I am spending a lot of time debating in a lesson it would be daft to have pupils sat in rows, they could not talk to each other. If the focus of my lesson is a written assessment they may well be sat in rows. I rarely have my tables in groups but there are times when that is suitable as well. I am an effective teacher because I am good at my job and plan lessons with care not because of where my desks are placed.

I am secondary trained and have noticed that my dd tables never move, although to be fair I rarely get to my dd school. I do think in the primary classroom there are times when you should be sat in rows and other times when groups are needed.

I do think in education low level disruption is an issue that needs tacking, survey after survey shows that this is what disturbs lessons. Perhaps this is part of the tory way of taclking this. Hats of for recogising it but it will take more than this.

I did have a cursory glance at the tory education policy and did agree with much of it. I did not see references to desks though!