Catholic church - time to call it a day?

[Chil1234]

I truly hope that the latest scandals and accusations have hit the catholic church hard or preferably killed it stone dead. If it were isolated incidents or if the problems had been handled considerately, it might be put down to the vagiaries of life or the human condition. If other religious organisations had the same breadth of complaints one might make a faith connection. But it isn't the case.

The catholic church's position of absolute authority, of 'doing God's work', and expecting unthinking obedience, has resulted in apalling corruption and terrible abuse..... from the Magdalen Laundries, the Holly Mount Orphanage, the organisations that shipped children off to terrible conditions in Australia to the cover-ups surrounding abusive priests today. People in my own family have been direct victims of 'pastoral care', having their lives ruined when they most needed help. It's not enough to say that the church does a lot of good work or that there are good people in the organisation... that does not compensate for the instutionalised megalomania and abuse of privilege.

When the Pope visits I, for one, will not be there to greet him. Shame on the lot of them

Honestly....you have no opinions on paedophiles or cover up in schools? How bizarre.

Seimum, I think I was responding to people bringing Islam into this debate, this is about the Catholic Church and how paedophilia is entrenched in every level.

I fully appreciate that if Catholicism is your path to God then the hideous actions of some cannot destroy that path. However I am still struggling that anyone would want this Pope.

I have opinions but you asked how would I feel if it were the head of my childs school! He doesn't go to school so I can't really answer of the head of a school my child doesn't attend as I have no experience of having a child at school.

SK

Honestly....you have no opinions on paedophiles or cover up in schools? How bizarre.

"I am in shock that no Catholic is angry with the Pope for allowing this to go on"

OMG I don't know any who AREN'T!

I want this Pope, I always did. I want a conservative Pope who doesn't want to turn us into CofE. I don't want abuse, but I don't want electric guitars at Mass either

Are you trying to be obtuse? What if your local nursery/primary school/doctors surgery had covered up serial child rape by one of it's employees would you still take/send your child there? What if it was the owner of your local sweet shop? It's not hard.

salbysea.....on this thread.

So you can turn a blind eye to his blind eye? thank goodness you aren't the mother of one of the abused children.

Posie

Your faith and church isn't something you choose as a consumer, like doctors, nurseries etc.

I'm not saying I'm not dismayed by what has been coming out in the press, and I hope and pray that all this publicity will lead to changes giving a better organisation for the future (This being not the first time that the church has been in need of a reformation).

However, to ask another question - if a member of your family was found to be covering up for a child abuser, would you walk away from the whole family because of the one?

Ok if the question is did someone as the doctors say cover up the abuse of children at a doctors surgery in another country... Then yes I would still take DS to the one where we live. The Pope has not comitted abuse.

ok well here's one!

although I must admit that I don't often think about the vatican when I think of the Catholic Church .... in England anyway. I just think of the little place up the road where I go to pray and light candles for loved ones etc

I wonder if in the future people will look back in disgust at how we as a society continued to gorge ourselves on non fairly traded /ethical products even though reports did come through about how our greed for these products was fueling child labour / displacement of peoples etc, in the same way that we are now disgusted at those who knew but didn't wanna know IYKWIM about the abuse in the church

I only mention this because my post made me reflect on how, when out shopping, I always have in the back of my mind "where did this come from and did people/animals suffer so I could have it" (although I admit I could do MUCH better ... but my point is, it is always on my mind and I do try boycott the baddies and support local ethical stuff), yet, I don't see my going to my little local church as me supporting the vatican????
hmmmmm

And yes I thank God every day that no one I know has been abused.

Do people refuse to go to Ipswich as women were murdered there? The church is more than just this one awful period.

As seimum says, people forgive their family for doing TERRIBLE things. The church is my family and I forgive them and hope we can redeem ourselves.

I just don't see my attending a catholic church in England as turning a blind eye because I have no reason to believe there is anyone there who has done anything wrong (any more than any other sample of society)

unlike my local church in Ireland where the priest was known to have been 'moved on' from his last parish. I did not attend church there. I did not hero worship him like many others, I did not fall over myself Mrs Doyle style if I saw him in the street

I don't consider myself a 'turn a blind eye' kinda person, but maybe I'm wrong?

StrictlyKatty - you are still pleased that we have this Pope even though you know he covered up the abuse of 200 children?

I think the problem is, StrictlyKatty, that the 'issues' in the Catholic church (all over the world) seem systematic. (and not just one-offs as your Ipswish example implies). And as several other posters have pointed out, they seem a result of the insistence of the vow of celibacy.

"our faith and church isn't something you choose as a consumer, like doctors, nurseries etc. "

Does this mean you give no thought to weather you actually believe any of it or not.

Why does every one think people on this thread are catholic bashing, I'll tell you, because the Pope has been caught with the mother of all smoking guns and the rest of the church has thus far failed to distance themselves or condemn his actions. until they start to do that, they remain party to his crime. If this state of affairs continues, then yes we can justify calling the whole church rotten and opposing the institution in principle.

So, Speak up.....

"I am in shock that no Catholic is angry with the Pope for allowing this to go on"

My reading of this thread is that the majority of Catholics who've spoken are angry. Many are trying to do what they can from within.

I wish you all the best of luck.

btw, which 'awful period' in particular are you referring to?

The Pope is about more than just child abuse. He has bought Catholics and Jews together in a way we have never been before. He has spoken out of 3rd world debt and AIDS in a way never done by a Pope before.

He has made mistakes and has admitted them but he has done a lot of good.

How can anything change if we all just quit?!

Where has he admitted that he made a mistake? God I find your defence of him really chilling

'Will you be leaving your children alone with the Priests?'

Posie, Catholics don't leave their children with priests these days at Mass/children's liturgy. There are very, very strict rules about child safety. I had to be CRB checked to put out the felt pens on the tables for children's liturgy.

And yes, if I met hte priest socially, I would let him be alone with my children.

I am talking about the Pope....not abandoning the Church. I am asking why anyone would want this man as the head of their Church. The analogy about a Head teacher was to highlight a person in a position of trust and responsibility as I strongly suspect that if a Head teacher had covered up abuse most people would be calling for their dismissal.

I don't think people should abandon the church for these atrocities, like I said if this is your chosen path to God then perhaps you should consider this a test. I shudder to think that the man so revered by this form of Christianity is a party to the abuse that could ruin the church, I think to continue to support this man raises serious questions about the power of the church and it's foundations against the clergy within it.