Catholic church - time to call it a day?

[Chil1234]

I truly hope that the latest scandals and accusations have hit the catholic church hard or preferably killed it stone dead. If it were isolated incidents or if the problems had been handled considerately, it might be put down to the vagiaries of life or the human condition. If other religious organisations had the same breadth of complaints one might make a faith connection. But it isn't the case.

The catholic church's position of absolute authority, of 'doing God's work', and expecting unthinking obedience, has resulted in apalling corruption and terrible abuse..... from the Magdalen Laundries, the Holly Mount Orphanage, the organisations that shipped children off to terrible conditions in Australia to the cover-ups surrounding abusive priests today. People in my own family have been direct victims of 'pastoral care', having their lives ruined when they most needed help. It's not enough to say that the church does a lot of good work or that there are good people in the organisation... that does not compensate for the instutionalised megalomania and abuse of privilege.

When the Pope visits I, for one, will not be there to greet him. Shame on the lot of them

What about the Nursary nurse this week? The 17 year old who reported her took 2 years to pluck up the courage yet was roundly praised.

Personally I think she is a pathetic coward for allowing babies to be abused but too weak to say anything for 2 years....

My dh is a Roman Catholic there's been immense pressure to baptise ds but I have held off for many many reasons.

Now with the emerging cover up - the bullish view from Rome how could I ever entertain the idea of allowing my son to be baptised? Particularly as it now seems that once you're a catholic you are one for life.

Who would actually sign up to this if they weren't already a Catholic.

I did. I wasn't born a Catholic but chose to start going to RC church as a child. DH was born Catholic but is agnostic now, DS was baptised as I believe it's critcal for his soul.

Really posie, I think it would be a far stronger thing for him to renounce any part in covering up that he had, fully and truely and lead the way forward. Because we all sin, and yes child abuse is one of the most heinous crimes and sins and if our leader can use courage to admit a part to such a hideous thing and change things for the future, then that sends a message that we can all move from a sinful position towards one closer to God.

Doing this does not make what happened right, it does not condone it, it allows the most important thing of all to happen: to ensure that this does not happen in the future.

that is my thoughts on the matter and it is enough thinking for me for the night

I don't think that this particular pope is changing things for the better - he's moving the Catholic church further and further away from tolerance and humanity. Just look at his stance on homosexuality. If as a Christian you follow the teachings of Jesus, how can you reconcile what's written in the gospels with papal doctrine?

No organisation that promotes bigotry and ignorance has a place in the world anymore, IMO the rest of us have moved on from that.

Really I'm pretty sure that the extreem Muslims aren't preaching lots of love for Jews and Christians right now....

And I oppose that part of Islam as well. But that's a different thread.

SK...whoa there. This girl was a child when she first knew and still unable to vote when she reported it. The Pope was a fully grown man and one who apparently represents God and yet he did not investigate the abuse nor report it, if there is a God I am sure he would view the 17 year old with far more benevolence and forgiveness.

But strictly - if you were on the outside looking in at this point would you join.

From my viewpoint I'd feel it very uncomfortable getting my ds baptised into a faith with an establishment that has glossed over, ignored and lied about child abuse over a very long period of time.

I see that the current pope isn't popular but let's not forget the previous pope must have known too.

I have not heard of any grand scale child abuse in Islam.

Bernadette - SGB is great at hyperbole.

I mis-read the thread title as 'Charlotte Church - time to call it a day'

I have no opinion on the Catholic Church.

Sin...

Yes I would join today. I will be at mass on sunday and DC2 when born in Sept will be baptised.

There actually is a thread 'Charlotte Church etc', there are quite a few of us

Will you be leaving your children alone with the Priests?

I think we are all divided on this one down party lines. But all I'm hearing from the catholics is their personal pain in all this.

I would point out that no one would be angry if Mr. Reitzinger had outed the culprit earlier. the root of your pain is in Rome.

I would leave them alone with our Priest without a 2nd thought. I trust him, he's an army padre, and I myself have spend much time alone with Priests without suffering anything.

Is it possible for Charlotte Church to call it a day too?

You should never leave your child with anyone without a second thought.....

I am in shock that no Catholic is angry with the Pope for allowing this to go on. I am not religious, at all, but I think I would be pissed off with anyone that let something I love get so tarnished and I would want to ensure that the needs of the Church were above the needs of the figure head. The Church will survive, but at huge costs.

I leave my child with my mother without a 2nd thought. If you trust someone....

I was being a little tongue in cheek.

I am still astounded that anyone is defending the Pope and would still like to know if they would feel the same about the Head of their child's school, anyone brave enough to answer?

Well DS is just 2... so I don't really think I can answer on schools.

posie " I have not heard of any grand scale child abuse in Islam."

30 - 40 years ago we had not heard of any grand scale child abuse in the Catholic Church either. It did not mean it was not happening.

The fact theat there is so much in the press now about abuse and cover ups in the past is a good thing, as it shows that this behaviour is no longer tolerated, and people are not afraid to report it.

With all the child protection rules etc now implemented in the church, it is probably a safer place to be than other organisations where we do not yet know what goes on.

some have asked why people are still defending the catholic church. I guess some people think they are just defending their faith and its perceived as defending the institution?? well this is why I am still catholic (just for those who asked):

personally, I am still catholic but see the catholic church in Ireland and the catholic church in England as two very different things

Corruption and cover ups happens right across Irish society. Its not just priests/nuns who were protected. Women who speak out were often outcast and lay rapists and abusers protected by the community (incl police). Now I do appreciate that the catholic church 'groomed' irish society to be this way, I am only explaining why I as a catholic am still a catholic despite knowing very well how bad it was/is in Ireland. I just think Irish society as a whole is rotten to the core, I choose not to be a part of it or the catholic church in Ireland. I've turned my back on the whole rotten package. The catholic church in England feels very different to me, no power imbalance! just as the police force in England feels different to me, and education in schools feels different to me. Does that make any sense?

Going to church in Ireland makes me nauseous - everyone gushing over the peacock like priest, parishioners making small talk with members of the community who they know have done horrible things, people not even getting out the door of the church before they start spreading really viscous and damaging rumors - bleugh! But I enjoy going to church in England. I just don't see going to church here as condoning the institute in Ireland, perhaps I should? I don't know?